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On October 08 2013 08:02 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 07:42 Lorch wrote:On October 08 2013 07:36 Zaqwe wrote:On October 04 2013 00:57 Nekemancer wrote:On October 02 2013 21:31 unigolyn wrote:
The response of Artosis is exactly the problem with the scene. Everyone deflects responsibility behind "witch hunts" and "pitchforks". As soon as anything negative is said on a subject by a random reddit troll, all legitimate questions and criticism are shut down with "witch hunt".
No, this is not a goddamn witch hunt. Just because some whackaloon in this thread said "I'm going to sue someone" doesn't mean you get to ignore the fact that your friend took forty grand of other people's money and there's no quid in sight for that quo.
The main issue with Sons of Starcraft is not that it's late, but that there is not adequate communication of its status to financial backers. Circling the wagons at this point seems like a bad joke. I agree completely. I didn't think I could be more disappointed in the direction that this has all gone. I posted earlier saying that all I wanted was my poster. This response, directly insulting so many of his fans that just wanted to see the damn thing come out, just has completely turned me away from anything he may be involved in. Speaking only for myself personally, I truly cannot see myself spending money on, for example, the Handsome Nerd. I used to browse it frequently looking for something to pull the trigger on, liking the designs but still waiting for one that I had to have. I knew I'd have one eventually. Not anymore. I am just so disappointed that our valid concerns, concerns that were valid months and months ago, have been waved off in such an insulting manner. We're not upset over the fact that there have been significant delays. We're not upset over there being no reason behind it. We're upset because there has been not even an attempt at addressing our concerns, and not even the hint at an apology. We're upset that the only reason we have the suggestion that it's coming out at Blizzcon is someone other than the guy actually working on it tweeted it. That's a fucking joke. It's so bizarre that someone who is normally so good at working his image and branding completely missed the mark on the problems here. Then insulted us to boot. Here's a hint: The people who are still interested in this coming out are those that are still asking about it two years down the road. We hadn't forgotten about it. Frankly, I don't even care if the poster ever arrives now. It's not going up. Every time I'd see it, it'd just be a reminder that I'm clearly nothing but a witch hunting asshole who likes taking down anyone who tries to do someone for the community. Over two years ago, I made a donation in the hopes of getting a poster signed by two pillars of the SC2 community. Two men that I had nothing but respect for. Before reading this, I had empty hands and some disappointment. Today, I have more disappointment, and have been insulted for being interested in what's going on. Thanks for that. + Show Spoiler +Funny side note, last time I bumped the thread was because my emails had gone unanswered for weeks. I got a response shortly after that. Good to know what works. I, too, really liked Tastless and Artosis in the infancy of SC2. However the more their true character shone through the worse of a taste it left in my mouth. They really don't seem to care. Things like: - T: "Everybody SO wants to be best friends with us Artosis!" (I have really never witnessed such an inflated ego, ever) - Publicly ridiculing and shaming some guy who asked for a job as translator (How dare some plebeian not know his place? Better put him in his place on live broadcast.) - Artosis flipping his shit on a practice partner on stream, because the guy was beating him at 1v1 and was clearly more skilled (Then tastosis make thinly veiled insults on live GOMTV broadcast about how even though someone can beat you they are still very bad and stupid. I felt bad for him.) - T: "Supernova? More like SUBPARnova!" (Tasteless? More like Tactless.) - "Someone made a mistake! SNARF! SNARF!" (Come on, it's supposed to be commentary not a comedy channel roast) Granted Artosis seems to be better at putting on his mask and acting nice, but you can see the veil slip up when he gets asked about things like this documentary. I can't help but think the SOTG/Meta break was primarily due to Artosis. JP comes across as such a genuinely nice guy, and Artosis comes across as petty, greedy, and mean spirited. Not sure if some of the finest trolling I have ever seen or somebody who doesn't get tastosis at all. What am I not "getting"? Anyway I wasn't trying to bash or offend anyone who still really likes them. You can be a fan of whoever you want. I was just mentioning some key moments that made me, personally, change my opinion of them. The topic of this thread is sort of just the icing on the cake. They (ab)used their notoriety to get their fans to pay one of their friends a large sum of money for a project he is apparently in over his head on, and had no track record to prove he was up to the task. Then instead of holding his feet to the fire for the sake of their fans--who they actively solicited money from--they instead trash anyone who dares ask questions. It's clear where their priorities are: themselves and their friends.
I'm not saying you tried to bash them. What you don't get apparently is the humor. They are both really good friends with john, the "they so wanna be best friends with us" is such an old joke now and at worst it's just part of creating the tastosis brand and selling an imagine (if you hate them for this you must have a stronger desire to kill day 9 as the only puprose of anything he ever does is to sell himself). I think your issues are connected with the very wrong idea of "bad mannered" this community has. Subparnova was a (to me) really funny joke, however it does not mean that tasteless hates supoernova or actually thinks he is supbar. Making jokes about somebody messing up isn't bm, it's making a fucking joke. Our society may lead everyone to believe that doing something wrong or making a mistake is a really terrible thing, while in reality it's the most natural learning process of all time. The last part I don't even get, and if you want to shout at any caster for overpointing out mistakes you'd have to go with khaldor.
I'm 99% sure sotg/meta happened because jp lost interest in doing sotg (during ep 100 he mentioned thinking about ending it a lot) and artosis wanted to talk about the game while jp was somewhat interested in all the drama. Which can easily be seen by the fact that all of meta is just talk about the game while most sotg's (atleast newer wants) primarily deal with drama.
Honestly if you truly believe any sc2 caster is actually the person you see on stream you must be somewhat, well naive I guess. Apollo is really good at faking it well, day9 completly over does it and tries to be the coolest person any nerd could ever hope to meet and tastosis go with being your high school buddies. I understand that their name being on it has lead many people to put money into this docu, and yea the way it went down was pretty messed up (though I'd still bet my left arm that it will actually come out), but to start bashing on two of the createst casters in all of esports is kinda wrong.
Of course their priorties are with their friends and family, like everyones should be. That doesn't mean that they don't care about their fans. I highly doubt many of us would have been like "yea fuck that dude I have known for years cause he can't finish the movie about me fast enough (and doesn't share updates with the community)!" This community has already burned so many bridges without even noticing. Emailing sponsors over hiring certain people probably won't make those sponsors go like "yea lets do star 2 again" or bitching about not getting what you were promised asaply probably means that papajohns is done with starcraft 2. But hey it's all somebody elses fault right?
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^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved.
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On October 08 2013 07:36 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:57 Nekemancer wrote:On October 02 2013 21:31 unigolyn wrote:
The response of Artosis is exactly the problem with the scene. Everyone deflects responsibility behind "witch hunts" and "pitchforks". As soon as anything negative is said on a subject by a random reddit troll, all legitimate questions and criticism are shut down with "witch hunt".
No, this is not a goddamn witch hunt. Just because some whackaloon in this thread said "I'm going to sue someone" doesn't mean you get to ignore the fact that your friend took forty grand of other people's money and there's no quid in sight for that quo.
The main issue with Sons of Starcraft is not that it's late, but that there is not adequate communication of its status to financial backers. Circling the wagons at this point seems like a bad joke. I agree completely. I didn't think I could be more disappointed in the direction that this has all gone. I posted earlier saying that all I wanted was my poster. This response, directly insulting so many of his fans that just wanted to see the damn thing come out, just has completely turned me away from anything he may be involved in. Speaking only for myself personally, I truly cannot see myself spending money on, for example, the Handsome Nerd. I used to browse it frequently looking for something to pull the trigger on, liking the designs but still waiting for one that I had to have. I knew I'd have one eventually. Not anymore. I am just so disappointed that our valid concerns, concerns that were valid months and months ago, have been waved off in such an insulting manner. We're not upset over the fact that there have been significant delays. We're not upset over there being no reason behind it. We're upset because there has been not even an attempt at addressing our concerns, and not even the hint at an apology. We're upset that the only reason we have the suggestion that it's coming out at Blizzcon is someone other than the guy actually working on it tweeted it. That's a fucking joke. It's so bizarre that someone who is normally so good at working his image and branding completely missed the mark on the problems here. Then insulted us to boot. Here's a hint: The people who are still interested in this coming out are those that are still asking about it two years down the road. We hadn't forgotten about it. Frankly, I don't even care if the poster ever arrives now. It's not going up. Every time I'd see it, it'd just be a reminder that I'm clearly nothing but a witch hunting asshole who likes taking down anyone who tries to do someone for the community. Over two years ago, I made a donation in the hopes of getting a poster signed by two pillars of the SC2 community. Two men that I had nothing but respect for. Before reading this, I had empty hands and some disappointment. Today, I have more disappointment, and have been insulted for being interested in what's going on. Thanks for that. + Show Spoiler +Funny side note, last time I bumped the thread was because my emails had gone unanswered for weeks. I got a response shortly after that. Good to know what works. I, too, really liked Tastless and Artosis in the infancy of SC2. However the more their true character shone through the worse of a taste it left in my mouth. They really don't seem to care. Things like: - T: "Everybody SO wants to be best friends with us Artosis!" (I have really never witnessed such an inflated ego, ever) - Publicly ridiculing and shaming some guy who asked for a job as translator (How dare some plebeian not know his place? Better put him in his place on live broadcast.) - Artosis flipping his shit on a practice partner on stream, because the guy was beating him at 1v1 and was clearly more skilled (Then tastosis make thinly veiled insults on live GOMTV broadcast about how even though someone can beat you they are still very bad and stupid. I felt bad for him.) - T: "Supernova? More like SUBPARnova!" (Tasteless? More like Tactless.) - "Someone made a mistake! SNARF! SNARF!" (Come on, it's supposed to be commentary not a comedy channel roast) Granted Artosis seems to be better at putting on his mask and acting nice, but you can see the veil slip up when he gets asked about things like this documentary. I can't help but think the SOTG/Meta break was primarily due to Artosis. JP comes across as such a genuinely nice guy, and Artosis comes across as petty, greedy, and mean spirited.
IMO you take this a little too far. I personally am definitely disappointed by the lack of transparency with this project after being donated a very large sum of money. But to cite things like Tasteless saying Subparnova is taking it a bit too far.
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On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved.
Yeah screw them for needing money to live.
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On October 08 2013 08:17 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:02 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 07:42 Lorch wrote:On October 08 2013 07:36 Zaqwe wrote:On October 04 2013 00:57 Nekemancer wrote:On October 02 2013 21:31 unigolyn wrote:
The response of Artosis is exactly the problem with the scene. Everyone deflects responsibility behind "witch hunts" and "pitchforks". As soon as anything negative is said on a subject by a random reddit troll, all legitimate questions and criticism are shut down with "witch hunt".
No, this is not a goddamn witch hunt. Just because some whackaloon in this thread said "I'm going to sue someone" doesn't mean you get to ignore the fact that your friend took forty grand of other people's money and there's no quid in sight for that quo.
The main issue with Sons of Starcraft is not that it's late, but that there is not adequate communication of its status to financial backers. Circling the wagons at this point seems like a bad joke. I agree completely. I didn't think I could be more disappointed in the direction that this has all gone. I posted earlier saying that all I wanted was my poster. This response, directly insulting so many of his fans that just wanted to see the damn thing come out, just has completely turned me away from anything he may be involved in. Speaking only for myself personally, I truly cannot see myself spending money on, for example, the Handsome Nerd. I used to browse it frequently looking for something to pull the trigger on, liking the designs but still waiting for one that I had to have. I knew I'd have one eventually. Not anymore. I am just so disappointed that our valid concerns, concerns that were valid months and months ago, have been waved off in such an insulting manner. We're not upset over the fact that there have been significant delays. We're not upset over there being no reason behind it. We're upset because there has been not even an attempt at addressing our concerns, and not even the hint at an apology. We're upset that the only reason we have the suggestion that it's coming out at Blizzcon is someone other than the guy actually working on it tweeted it. That's a fucking joke. It's so bizarre that someone who is normally so good at working his image and branding completely missed the mark on the problems here. Then insulted us to boot. Here's a hint: The people who are still interested in this coming out are those that are still asking about it two years down the road. We hadn't forgotten about it. Frankly, I don't even care if the poster ever arrives now. It's not going up. Every time I'd see it, it'd just be a reminder that I'm clearly nothing but a witch hunting asshole who likes taking down anyone who tries to do someone for the community. Over two years ago, I made a donation in the hopes of getting a poster signed by two pillars of the SC2 community. Two men that I had nothing but respect for. Before reading this, I had empty hands and some disappointment. Today, I have more disappointment, and have been insulted for being interested in what's going on. Thanks for that. + Show Spoiler +Funny side note, last time I bumped the thread was because my emails had gone unanswered for weeks. I got a response shortly after that. Good to know what works. I, too, really liked Tastless and Artosis in the infancy of SC2. However the more their true character shone through the worse of a taste it left in my mouth. They really don't seem to care. Things like: - T: "Everybody SO wants to be best friends with us Artosis!" (I have really never witnessed such an inflated ego, ever) - Publicly ridiculing and shaming some guy who asked for a job as translator (How dare some plebeian not know his place? Better put him in his place on live broadcast.) - Artosis flipping his shit on a practice partner on stream, because the guy was beating him at 1v1 and was clearly more skilled (Then tastosis make thinly veiled insults on live GOMTV broadcast about how even though someone can beat you they are still very bad and stupid. I felt bad for him.) - T: "Supernova? More like SUBPARnova!" (Tasteless? More like Tactless.) - "Someone made a mistake! SNARF! SNARF!" (Come on, it's supposed to be commentary not a comedy channel roast) Granted Artosis seems to be better at putting on his mask and acting nice, but you can see the veil slip up when he gets asked about things like this documentary. I can't help but think the SOTG/Meta break was primarily due to Artosis. JP comes across as such a genuinely nice guy, and Artosis comes across as petty, greedy, and mean spirited. Not sure if some of the finest trolling I have ever seen or somebody who doesn't get tastosis at all. What am I not "getting"? Anyway I wasn't trying to bash or offend anyone who still really likes them. You can be a fan of whoever you want. I was just mentioning some key moments that made me, personally, change my opinion of them. The topic of this thread is sort of just the icing on the cake. They (ab)used their notoriety to get their fans to pay one of their friends a large sum of money for a project he is apparently in over his head on, and had no track record to prove he was up to the task. Then instead of holding his feet to the fire for the sake of their fans--who they actively solicited money from--they instead trash anyone who dares ask questions. It's clear where their priorities are: themselves and their friends. I'm not saying you tried to bash them. What you don't get apparently is the humor. They are both really good friends with john, the "they so wanna be best friends with us" is such an old joke now and at worst it's just part of creating the tastosis brand and selling an imagine (if you hate them for this you must have a stronger desire to kill day 9 as the only puprose of anything he ever does is to sell himself). I think your issues are connected with the very wrong idea of "bad mannered" this community has. Subparnova was a (to me) really funny joke, however it does not mean that tasteless hates supoernova or actually thinks he is supbar. Making jokes about somebody messing up isn't bm, it's making a fucking joke. Our society may lead everyone to believe that doing something wrong or making a mistake is a really terrible thing, while in reality it's the most natural learning process of all time. The last part I don't even get, and if you want to shout at any caster for overpointing out mistakes you'd have to go with khaldor. I'm 99% sure sotg/meta happened because jp lost interest in doing sotg (during ep 100 he mentioned thinking about ending it a lot) and artosis wanted to talk about the game while jp was somewhat interested in all the drama. Which can easily be seen by the fact that all of meta is just talk about the game while most sotg's (atleast newer wants) primarily deal with drama. Honestly if you truly believe any sc2 caster is actually the person you see on stream you must be somewhat, well naive I guess. Apollo is really good at faking it well, day9 completly over does it and tries to be the coolest person any nerd could ever hope to meet and tastosis go with being your high school buddies. I understand that their name being on it has lead many people to put money into this docu, and yea the way it went down was pretty messed up (though I'd still bet my left arm that it will actually come out), but to start bashing on two of the createst casters in all of esports is kinda wrong. Of course their priorties are with their friends and family, like everyones should be. That doesn't mean that they don't care about their fans. I highly doubt many of us would have been like "yea fuck that dude I have known for years cause he can't finish the movie about me fast enough (and doesn't share updates with the community)!" This community has already burned so many bridges without even noticing. Emailing sponsors over hiring certain people probably won't make those sponsors go like "yea lets do star 2 again" or bitching about not getting what you were promised asaply probably means that papajohns is done with starcraft 2. But hey it's all somebody elses fault right?
Where's the joke? "Everyone so wants to be best friends with us" isn't a joke. There's no joke there. It's just smug self-satisfaction and ego stroking. It's placing yourself on a pedestal above your lowly fans.
Bashing players with "subparnova" or repeated shouts of "SNARF!" isn't a joke either. There's no joke, no punchline, no humour. It's just bullying. Sure, bullies love bullying. They find it funny. But people with empathy tend to not like bullying and symapthize with the victim. Especially when the personal attacks are done behind the victims back on a very public platform where he will never be able to respond to the insults.
Maybe you weren't watching when Tasteless ranted about how some dirty peasant had the nerve to ask him for a job. It caused the poor guy much distress, and Tasteless was forced to issue a terse incincere apology on air the following broadcast. That was an extremely blatant example of mean spirited bullying. It gave a very clear window into Tastless' mind, and showed how much disdain he has for his fans. In fairness to Artosis, he didn't seem as eager to ridicule the guy. But he doesn't tend to dissent when it is time to bully someone publicly on GOMtv. I found myself often wishing that Artosis would "reign in" Tasteless' mean spirited nature, but eventually I realized Artosis is pretty much the same, just better at acting professional in the spotlight.
The movie has nothing to do with just "not finishing fast enough". They solicited money for this project, using their name and recognition to get funding from their fans. Their concern seems to have ended at "getting money from fans". At the very least after soliciting money they should be willing to answer reasonable questions from contributors instead of telling them to stuff it. Ideally they should not be using their name to solicit money for a product they are not sure can be delivered as advertised. After the fact, at least be open about what the problems are.
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On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved.
where do you get off accusing of them switching for fame and money? sc2 was a new game. almost everyone who played sc:bw switched to sc2 because of the fact that it was a new game that everyone was waiting for.
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I am sure Supernova is fine and being criticized by commentators is part of the game. When you play like shit, I am sure someone is going to call you on it. And it must be a bummer that Tastless gives no shits what you think and doesn't read the forums, because then you can't troll him.
Tastless is his own man and knows who he is. He has tons of fans and interacts with them in a positive fashion. Just because he calls the more troll filled sections of the community out on what they are doesn't make him arrogant. It just makes him honest.
On October 08 2013 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. where do you get off accusing of them switching for fame and money? sc2 was a new game. almost everyone who played sc:bw switched to sc2 because of the fact that it was a new game that everyone was waiting for.
That and Day 9, Artosis and Tasteless were making zero money off of BW. I don't know how going from zero to able to support yourself and have a career is greedy. But the reality distortion field is strong here.
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On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved.
I opened this thread and this was the first comment I read.
Nooope. Nopenopenope.
It might surprise you, but there are far easier ways to get money than from SC2. In fact, it is incredibly hard to make a living out of SC2.
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On October 08 2013 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. where do you get off accusing of them switching for fame and money? sc2 was a new game. almost everyone who played sc:bw switched to sc2 because of the fact that it was a new game that everyone was waiting for.
Tastless obviously doesn't like SC2 and hasn't cared about it from the start. Day9 also gives no indication he cares about the game outside of job opportunities it provides.
Artosis seemed to have genuine passion for a while. He even cared about the game enough to complain about perceived imbalance--prioritizing game quality over his relationship with Blizzard. His latest money grab with the Artosis University seems so soulless it's hard to imagine he cares any more. He also doesn't say anything publicly about things in the game that could be improved. I think he lost hope and is riding it out for cash at this point.
On October 08 2013 08:54 Plansix wrote:I am sure Supernova is fine and being criticized by commentators is part of the game. When you play like shit, I am sure someone is going to call you on it. And it must be a bummer that Tastless gives no shits what you think and doesn't read the forums, because then you can't troll him. Tastless is his own man and knows who he is. He has tons of fans and interacts with them in a positive fashion. Just because he calls the more troll filled sections of the community out on what they are doesn't make him arrogant. It just makes him honest. Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. where do you get off accusing of them switching for fame and money? sc2 was a new game. almost everyone who played sc:bw switched to sc2 because of the fact that it was a new game that everyone was waiting for. That and Day 9, Artosis and Tasteless were making zero money off of BW. I don't know how going from zero to able to support yourself and have a career is greedy. But the reality distortion field is strong here.
Supernova wasn't even playing badly. Tasteless just had nothing intelligent to contribute to the cast and wanted to force the pun, so made a big deal over nothing.
A fan who obviously looked up to them asking for a job is a "troll filled sector of the community" which needed "calling out" on GOMtv broadcast? You seem to have not read my post at all, and only imagined whatever you wanted to see.
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On October 08 2013 09:04 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. I opened this thread and this was the first comment I read. Nooope. Nopenopenope. It might surprise you, but there are far easier ways to get money than from SC2. In fact, it is incredibly hard to make a living out of SC2.
Casters are making a lot more than your average player that's for sure.
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On October 08 2013 09:04 Conti wrote:
In fact, it is incredibly hard to make a living out of SC2.
Unless you're an entrenched personality like Tasteless or Artosis. In that case it is so easy you just have to ask for money and your fans with throw $40,000+ to some guy they never heard of, on your word alone.
They hopped on the gravy train as it left the station, and will ride it until it crashes.
The absurdity of your statement in the context of this thread baffles me. Who is having a hard time making a living? The players are, but certainly not the old boy's club.
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On October 08 2013 09:11 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:04 Conti wrote:
In fact, it is incredibly hard to make a living out of SC2. Unless you're an entrenched personality like Tasteless or Artosis. In that case it is so easy you just have to ask for money and your fans with throw $40,000+ to some guy they never heard of, on your word alone.They hopped on the gravy train as it left the station, and will ride it until it crashes. The absurdity of your statement in the context of this thread baffles me. Who is having a hard time making a living? The players are, but certainly not the old boy's club.
Please, the old boys club put in their time and made themselves what they are. And the movie is coming out at Blizzcon from all reports. The lack of updates sucked, but lets not go nuts here and just pitchfork everyone because you don't like that they are successful.
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On October 08 2013 09:11 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:04 Conti wrote:
In fact, it is incredibly hard to make a living out of SC2. Unless you're an entrenched personality like Tasteless or Artosis. In that case it is so easy you just have to ask for money and your fans with throw $40,000+ to some guy they never heard of, on your word alone.They hopped on the gravy train as it left the station, and will ride it until it crashes. The absurdity of your statement in the context of this thread baffles me. Who is having a hard time making a living? The players are, but certainly not the old boy's club.
Remember, Incontrol got a raise while multiple of Korean B-teamers are struggling to even live underneath a roof with sponsors unwilling to spend money....
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On October 08 2013 09:16 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:11 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:04 Conti wrote:
In fact, it is incredibly hard to make a living out of SC2. Unless you're an entrenched personality like Tasteless or Artosis. In that case it is so easy you just have to ask for money and your fans with throw $40,000+ to some guy they never heard of, on your word alone.They hopped on the gravy train as it left the station, and will ride it until it crashes. The absurdity of your statement in the context of this thread baffles me. Who is having a hard time making a living? The players are, but certainly not the old boy's club. Remember, Incontrol got a raise while multiple of Korean B-teamers are struggling to even live underneath a roof with sponsors unwilling to spend money....
Remember how Incontrol is worth more to sponsors than any of those B-teams because they don't sell anything or provide any ROI.
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On October 08 2013 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. where do you get off accusing of them switching for fame and money? sc2 was a new game. almost everyone who played sc:bw switched to sc2 because of the fact that it was a new game that everyone was waiting for.
Except for Kespa players. And don't give me bullshit because of Kespa restriction. Look at MVP, ZergBong, and Iron. They switched right after SC2's release.
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On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
Please, the old boys club put in their time and made themselves what they are.
Tastless, for example, has shown no SC2 knowledge whatsoever. He didn't seem to play at all even shortly after launch. He did not do any research on players, or have any knowledge relevant to casting. He doesn't really seem to do anything, other than collect paycheques and solicit "donations" for his friends.
On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
And the movie is coming out at Blizzcon from all reports. The lack of updates sucked, but lets not go nuts here and just pitchfork everyone because you don't like that they are successful.
All reports? One tweet from their manager, not explicitly saying so but actually being vague? Is there anything else?
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- Publicly ridiculing and shaming some guy who asked for a job as translator (How dare some plebeian not know his place? Better put him in his place on live broadcast.)
Maybe you weren't watching when Tasteless ranted about how some dirty peasant had the nerve to ask him for a job. It caused the poor guy much distress, and Tasteless was forced to issue a terse incincere apology on air the following broadcast.
Was it that translator job situation related to John or was it related to something else?
I did remember an incident where it seemed someone tried to get John's job and Tasteless simply defended John. Also I did remember he apologized afterward but only because he got the wrong impression from what the person was asking (the person wanted the translator job but didn't think of it as replacing John or anything as John could do something else behind the scenes while Tasteless thought he was trying to get John's job and replace him).
If it wasn't this and something else, then disregard.
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On October 08 2013 09:08 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:04 Conti wrote:On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. I opened this thread and this was the first comment I read. Nooope. Nopenopenope. It might surprise you, but there are far easier ways to get money than from SC2. In fact, it is incredibly hard to make a living out of SC2. Casters are making a lot more than your average player that's for sure.
They do? Define "average caster", define "average player".
Artosis and Tasteless are not "your average caster", they are the best of the best, and most likely the best earning, too. So it is only fair to compare them to the best players, and there they sure as hell lose against the likes of MVP and MC. The top players have made >$400.000 on prize winnings alone, plus salary. I dare say that the top casters will not even come close to that kind of money.
Now for "your average caster". Let's pick Kaelaris, or Rotterdam. I have absolutely no idea what they earn, of course, but I really can't see them earning anything more than your average salary, enough to pay your bills and occasionally pay your flight to a big event even if they're not paid for it. Compare that to your average player, say, TLO, who is most likely getting the same kind of salary, plus tournament earnings (close to $40.000 for TLO). Again, player wins.
Then we have the semi-professional players and casters. People who play in weekly cups and win now and again, and the casters who cast these weekly events to try and make a name for them. Neither group is going to earn very much, and most of them very likely get no money at all for their playing and their casting.
So.. where on earth does the "casters make big money" meme come from, exactly?
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xiphos you should start an org that provides equality to sc2 players
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On October 08 2013 09:24 Conti wrote:
So.. where on earth does the "casters make big money" meme come from, exactly?
It comes from the fact that they... do in fact make big money while doing relatively no work.
Casters, players, and ex-players joke about it themselves.
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EPT
