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On October 08 2013 09:21 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
Please, the old boys club put in their time and made themselves what they are. Tastless, for example, has shown no SC2 knowledge whatsoever. He didn't seem to play at all even shortly after launch. He did not do any research on players, or have any knowledge relevant to casting. He doesn't really seem to do anything, other than collect paycheques and solicit "donations" for his friends. Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
And the movie is coming out at Blizzcon from all reports. The lack of updates sucked, but lets not go nuts here and just pitchfork everyone because you don't like that they are successful. All reports? One tweet from their manager, not explicitly saying so but actually being vague? Is there anything else?
Please, are you kidding me. Your just on the hate train now. The bias reeks off you. I can get being upset about the Kickstarter, everyone hasn't gotten what they wanted. But claiming that Artosis and Tasteless are money grubbing assholes that hate the community is just a pile of horse shit.
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On October 08 2013 06:00 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 01:20 StarStruck wrote:On October 03 2013 08:41 zaxx wrote:On October 02 2013 13:14 Dodgin wrote:On October 02 2013 12:57 krazykoz wrote:On September 05 2013 07:15 krazykoz wrote:
My guess is sometime on Meta in the coming weeks, Artosis will announce the release date telling you that DVDs will be available on handsomenerd.com. A side note, it is pretty interesting how intertwined E-Sports management group, handsome nerd, Meta, Tastetosis, and this documentary all are. Funny they claim to just be some nerds, but they be business-minded nerds, cashing in on the Tastetosis personality while they are still pretty popular.
I think they will release at or slightly before Blizzcon, perhaps the season 3 finals week. It would make the most marketing/economic sense to get it out before the holiday season and Blizzcon will be their best chance to get the most eyes on it. Artosis would definitely plug it if he is commentating there. Not sure if anything in early 2014 would have near the hype that event would. Called it. Just sad it takes a journalist digging into it to get some sort of comment on the release date. As opposed to the creator contacting his backers on kickstarter, you know, since they were the ones to gave him this once in a lifetime opportunity. On October 02 2013 12:23 Tobblish wrote:After all the shit went down and Unfiltered covered it I had to read it and damn SC2 is really unprofessional. The "tiers" in the SC2 scene is so blatantly showed and the links between certain people... Never saw Tumba to be a big jackass but holy tits! Since this topic came back up, I wonder if people have been bothering Tumba. I know they changed their website into the shell that it is now, so they must have been having people contacting them and were tired of it. On October 02 2013 12:39 dAPhREAk wrote:lol at artosis quote. he's failing at being a spin doctor: "you going to criticize my friends, WITCH HUNT." whether this film gets released at blizzcon or not, this was handled completely unprofessional (as expected). its a shame that because of shitfests like this that i can't take this seriously. although it, at least, has a proven track record. It is pretty sad that any criticism of Alejos' handling of this documentary is considered a witch hunt. I wonder where he has read this criticism, perhaps people are even emailing him now. Alejos claimed from the very beginning to want to be open with the community that helped make his dream of moving to Korea to be next to his buddies Nick and Dan and film them. Yet he was hardly that. Given eMG was "representing" him, you knew at some point this thing would come out or they would totally tarnish their reputation, but its pretty pathetic how unprofessional it has been handled the entire time given he is being represented by a "professional" management group. Regarding EMG(or I guess It's EMA now), they have a new website http://esportsma.com/ , not really sure why they changed the URL instead of just updating the old site. http://esportsmg.com/ is a barren wasteland but for some reason still online. When you google " Esports Management Group " esportsmg.com is at the top of the list, which of course, leads to nothingness. Even searching for " Esports Management Agency "(the new name I suppose) leads to not having that new website appear on the first page of Google. Kind of weird that they would make a website when no one can easily find it. Oh by the way it seems NesTea is no longer part of EMG, or at least not listed on their new site http://esportsma.com/meet-our-clients/. To respond to this, a few key people in eMG decided to split ways. Due to the split, the party with the clients was forced to form a new entity and brand (eSports Management Agency). lol. It's sad how many people cannot take fair criticism and no one likes a game of broken telephone. The practiced response for years has been to laugh and blame the community for being ungrateful bastards. The majority of the professionals in the industry don't seem to be very professional but how's that news. We've known that for years.
The fact is, most of the people involved in professional SC2 are close friends, they stick with each other. That's fine and dandy, except part of that is taking an us-against them mentality (also, they sometimes act like this is a small scene where everyone knows each other like during BW).
Have you ever heard Tasteless / Artosis / ect talk about interacting with the 'community'? They have this built in perception that people are just out to get them and it's all a giant waste of time. I get that they get trolled a lot (especially given how close they are with Idra, they've definitely seen the ugliest sides of the community). But they seem to just take the nuclear option of walling themselves off from all fan response / concerns. Which only warps their perception more about why people could possibly be upset over different issues (like the ones in the cadred article).
I guess this is something that motivated Richard Lewis to write that piece too actually
Posted in Comments by Richard Lewis
It clearly demonstrates how the status quo will come together to attack people who ask questions. I'm not going to stand by and constantly allow that nonsense. I don't really care if you defend or attack my pieces. People need to see the levels of back-slapping and nepotism that prevent any real reporting being done, or even people at the top end of the scene being taken to task when they do something wrong.
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On October 08 2013 09:24 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:08 Xiphos wrote:On October 08 2013 09:04 Conti wrote:On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. I opened this thread and this was the first comment I read. Nooope. Nopenopenope. It might surprise you, but there are far easier ways to get money than from SC2. In fact, it is incredibly hard to make a living out of SC2. Casters are making a lot more than your average player that's for sure. They do? Define "average caster", define "average player". Artosis and Tasteless are not "your average caster", they are the best of the best, and most likely the best earning, too. So it is only fair to compare them to the best players, and there they sure as hell lose against the likes of MVP and MC. The top players have made >$400.000 on prize winnings alone, plus salary. I dare say that the top casters will not even come close to that kind of money. Now for "your average caster". Let's pick Kaelaris, or Rotterdam. I have absolutely no idea what they earn, of course, but I really can't see them earning anything more than your average salary, enough to pay your bills and occasionally pay your flight to a big event even if they're not paid for it. Compare that to your average player, say, TLO, who is most likely getting the same kind of salary, plus tournament earnings (close to $40.000 for TLO). Again, player wins. Then we have the semi-professional players and casters. People who play in weekly cups and win now and again, and the casters who cast these weekly events to try and make a name for them. Neither group is going to earn very much, and most of them very likely get no money at all for their playing and their casting. So.. where on earth does the "casters make big money" meme come from, exactly?
"Artosis and Tasteless are not "your average caster", they are the best of the bes.."
Stopped reading there because of your reading skills as I never said they are your average casters.
You need to be more in context. The guy was saying that "it is incredibly hard to make a living out of SC2." which is simply not true for these guys. I refuted him on that.
On October 08 2013 09:26 heartlxp wrote:
xiphos you should start an org that provides equality to sc2 players
I would....
but I don't think there would be any money made from that 
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On October 08 2013 09:28 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:21 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
Please, the old boys club put in their time and made themselves what they are. Tastless, for example, has shown no SC2 knowledge whatsoever. He didn't seem to play at all even shortly after launch. He did not do any research on players, or have any knowledge relevant to casting. He doesn't really seem to do anything, other than collect paycheques and solicit "donations" for his friends. On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
And the movie is coming out at Blizzcon from all reports. The lack of updates sucked, but lets not go nuts here and just pitchfork everyone because you don't like that they are successful. All reports? One tweet from their manager, not explicitly saying so but actually being vague? Is there anything else? Please, are you kidding me. Your just on the hate train now. The bias reeks off you. I can get being upset about the Kickstarter, everyone hasn't gotten what they wanted. But claiming that Artosis and Tasteless are money grubbing assholes that hate the community is just a pile of horse shit.
ehh. when DRG was first getting a lot of hype, Tasteless kept calling him Drug when he played at an MLG.
he has always just seemed like he never cared much or had any clue as to what was going on.
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On October 08 2013 09:28 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:21 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
Please, the old boys club put in their time and made themselves what they are. Tastless, for example, has shown no SC2 knowledge whatsoever. He didn't seem to play at all even shortly after launch. He did not do any research on players, or have any knowledge relevant to casting. He doesn't really seem to do anything, other than collect paycheques and solicit "donations" for his friends. On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
And the movie is coming out at Blizzcon from all reports. The lack of updates sucked, but lets not go nuts here and just pitchfork everyone because you don't like that they are successful. All reports? One tweet from their manager, not explicitly saying so but actually being vague? Is there anything else? Please, are you kidding me. Your just on the hate train now. The bias reeks off you. I can get being upset about the Kickstarter, everyone hasn't gotten what they wanted. But claiming that Artosis and Tasteless are money grubbing assholes that hate the community is just a pile of horse shit.
I always know I am right when people start throwing out strawmen. That means my actual views are so completely accurate and unassailable you have to make things up like claiming I said they "hate the community".
Why would they hate the goose that lays the golden egg? You are so desperate to attack me you are fabricating absurdities.
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On October 08 2013 09:20 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. where do you get off accusing of them switching for fame and money? sc2 was a new game. almost everyone who played sc:bw switched to sc2 because of the fact that it was a new game that everyone was waiting for. Except for Kespa players. And don't give me bullshit because of Kespa restriction. Look at MVP, ZergBong, and Iron. They switched right after SC2's release.
i fail to see the relevance. none of that shows that tastosis and day9 went to sc2 for fame and money rather than them just switching to the newest hit from blizzard. its not terribly surprising that players under contract with kespa and making salaries stayed with the game that paid their salaries.
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On October 08 2013 09:31 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:28 Plansix wrote:On October 08 2013 09:21 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
Please, the old boys club put in their time and made themselves what they are. Tastless, for example, has shown no SC2 knowledge whatsoever. He didn't seem to play at all even shortly after launch. He did not do any research on players, or have any knowledge relevant to casting. He doesn't really seem to do anything, other than collect paycheques and solicit "donations" for his friends. On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
And the movie is coming out at Blizzcon from all reports. The lack of updates sucked, but lets not go nuts here and just pitchfork everyone because you don't like that they are successful. All reports? One tweet from their manager, not explicitly saying so but actually being vague? Is there anything else? Please, are you kidding me. Your just on the hate train now. The bias reeks off you. I can get being upset about the Kickstarter, everyone hasn't gotten what they wanted. But claiming that Artosis and Tasteless are money grubbing assholes that hate the community is just a pile of horse shit. I always know I am right when people start throwing out strawmen. That means my actual views are so completely accurate and unassailable you have to make things up like claiming I said they "hate the community". Why would they hate the goose that lays the golden egg? You are so desperate to attack me you are fabricating absurdities.
I don't really have logical arguments with people who say "Tastetosis are just greedy an in it for the money." As my father always said, "don't argue with drunks or fools". Your just on the hate train, son. Don't matter how many times you use the word "stawman".
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On October 08 2013 09:31 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:20 Xiphos wrote:On October 08 2013 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. where do you get off accusing of them switching for fame and money? sc2 was a new game. almost everyone who played sc:bw switched to sc2 because of the fact that it was a new game that everyone was waiting for. Except for Kespa players. And don't give me bullshit because of Kespa restriction. Look at MVP, ZergBong, and Iron. They switched right after SC2's release. i fail to see the relevance. none of that shows that tastosis and day9 went to sc2 for fame and money rather than them just switching to the newest hit from blizzard. its not terribly surprising that players under contract with kespa and making salaries stayed with the game that paid their salaries.
It may surprise you but Tastosis and Day9 constantly bashes SC2 and praise BW but they put their poker face on and plowed ahead in games.
Tasteless just don't give any crap. I prefer Apollo much better than him.
Day9 said "I just miss how fun BW is..." on baseball vs Frisbee analogy video of SC2 vs BW but yet never really try to grow the scene.
Think logically, why would they want to be a place where they rather not to be in the first place? Well money is definitely a good source of motivation and....well....fame as non-Koreans plays more SC2 than BW!
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On October 08 2013 08:04 pdd wrote:
I think the problem with Tastosis (Tasteless especially) is that they're so out of tune with the sentiments of the community. Although it's true that we're mostly drama mongers, a lot of times we bring up perfectly legitimate arguments and feedback, many of which even back in the glory days of GSL Tasteless would take out of context and bash during his cast. It seems things haven't really changed.
This is true, he flat out said he never reads forums, and his first piece of advice to any of the new casters / community figures is to never visit TL / Reddit since the trolling will drive them crazy.
Perhaps a bit of throwing the baby out with the bath water there.
Especially since they *are* on Twitter so end up hearing a lot of things they tried to ignore, only after it's gone through a few games of telephone.
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On October 08 2013 09:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:31 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:28 Plansix wrote:On October 08 2013 09:21 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
Please, the old boys club put in their time and made themselves what they are. Tastless, for example, has shown no SC2 knowledge whatsoever. He didn't seem to play at all even shortly after launch. He did not do any research on players, or have any knowledge relevant to casting. He doesn't really seem to do anything, other than collect paycheques and solicit "donations" for his friends. On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
And the movie is coming out at Blizzcon from all reports. The lack of updates sucked, but lets not go nuts here and just pitchfork everyone because you don't like that they are successful. All reports? One tweet from their manager, not explicitly saying so but actually being vague? Is there anything else? Please, are you kidding me. Your just on the hate train now. The bias reeks off you. I can get being upset about the Kickstarter, everyone hasn't gotten what they wanted. But claiming that Artosis and Tasteless are money grubbing assholes that hate the community is just a pile of horse shit. I always know I am right when people start throwing out strawmen. That means my actual views are so completely accurate and unassailable you have to make things up like claiming I said they "hate the community". Why would they hate the goose that lays the golden egg? You are so desperate to attack me you are fabricating absurdities. I don't really have logical arguments with people who say "Tastetosis are just greedy an in it for the money." As my father always said, "don't argue with drunks or fools". Your just on the hate train, son. Don't matter how many times you use the word "stawman".
To paraphrase an old saying: "If you have nothing logical to say, don't say it at all."
Your post count is not a currency.
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On October 08 2013 09:36 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:34 Plansix wrote:On October 08 2013 09:31 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:28 Plansix wrote:On October 08 2013 09:21 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
Please, the old boys club put in their time and made themselves what they are. Tastless, for example, has shown no SC2 knowledge whatsoever. He didn't seem to play at all even shortly after launch. He did not do any research on players, or have any knowledge relevant to casting. He doesn't really seem to do anything, other than collect paycheques and solicit "donations" for his friends. On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
And the movie is coming out at Blizzcon from all reports. The lack of updates sucked, but lets not go nuts here and just pitchfork everyone because you don't like that they are successful. All reports? One tweet from their manager, not explicitly saying so but actually being vague? Is there anything else? Please, are you kidding me. Your just on the hate train now. The bias reeks off you. I can get being upset about the Kickstarter, everyone hasn't gotten what they wanted. But claiming that Artosis and Tasteless are money grubbing assholes that hate the community is just a pile of horse shit. I always know I am right when people start throwing out strawmen. That means my actual views are so completely accurate and unassailable you have to make things up like claiming I said they "hate the community". Why would they hate the goose that lays the golden egg? You are so desperate to attack me you are fabricating absurdities. I don't really have logical arguments with people who say "Tastetosis are just greedy an in it for the money." As my father always said, "don't argue with drunks or fools". Your just on the hate train, son. Don't matter how many times you use the word "stawman". To paraphrase an old saying: "If you have nothing logical to say, don't say it at all." Your post count is not a currency.
It doesn't change the fact that you are set on hating Artosis and Tasteless and any attempt to convince you otherwise will not change your mind. Any effort I make to have a ration discussion will be wasted. You are not here to discuss things, you are here to hate on Artosis and Tasteless. My post count has little to do with it. You are here because you want to hate on them and argue with people who defend them. Nothing will change that.
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On October 08 2013 09:36 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:31 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 08 2013 09:20 Xiphos wrote:On October 08 2013 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. where do you get off accusing of them switching for fame and money? sc2 was a new game. almost everyone who played sc:bw switched to sc2 because of the fact that it was a new game that everyone was waiting for. Except for Kespa players. And don't give me bullshit because of Kespa restriction. Look at MVP, ZergBong, and Iron. They switched right after SC2's release. i fail to see the relevance. none of that shows that tastosis and day9 went to sc2 for fame and money rather than them just switching to the newest hit from blizzard. its not terribly surprising that players under contract with kespa and making salaries stayed with the game that paid their salaries. It may surprise you but Tastosis and Day9 constantly bashes SC2 and praise BW but they put their poker face on and plowed ahead in games. Tasteless just don't give any crap. I prefer Apollo much better than him. Day9 said "I just miss how fun BW is..." on baseball vs Frisbee analogy video of SC2 vs BW but yet never really try to grow the scene. Think logically, why would they want to be a place where they rather not to be in the first place? Well money is definitely a good source of motivation and....well....fame as non-Koreans plays more SC2 than BW!
you have an interesting sense of "proof." they moved on and, apparently, so should you.
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On October 08 2013 09:39 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:36 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:34 Plansix wrote:On October 08 2013 09:31 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:28 Plansix wrote:On October 08 2013 09:21 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
Please, the old boys club put in their time and made themselves what they are. Tastless, for example, has shown no SC2 knowledge whatsoever. He didn't seem to play at all even shortly after launch. He did not do any research on players, or have any knowledge relevant to casting. He doesn't really seem to do anything, other than collect paycheques and solicit "donations" for his friends. On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
And the movie is coming out at Blizzcon from all reports. The lack of updates sucked, but lets not go nuts here and just pitchfork everyone because you don't like that they are successful. All reports? One tweet from their manager, not explicitly saying so but actually being vague? Is there anything else? Please, are you kidding me. Your just on the hate train now. The bias reeks off you. I can get being upset about the Kickstarter, everyone hasn't gotten what they wanted. But claiming that Artosis and Tasteless are money grubbing assholes that hate the community is just a pile of horse shit. I always know I am right when people start throwing out strawmen. That means my actual views are so completely accurate and unassailable you have to make things up like claiming I said they "hate the community". Why would they hate the goose that lays the golden egg? You are so desperate to attack me you are fabricating absurdities. I don't really have logical arguments with people who say "Tastetosis are just greedy an in it for the money." As my father always said, "don't argue with drunks or fools". Your just on the hate train, son. Don't matter how many times you use the word "stawman". To paraphrase an old saying: "If you have nothing logical to say, don't say it at all." Your post count is not a currency. It doesn't change the fact that you are set on hating Artosis and Tasteless and any attempt to convince you otherwise will not change your mind. Any effort I make to have a ration discussion will be wasted. You are not here to discuss things, you are here to hate on Artosis and Tasteless. My post count has little to do with it. You are here because you want to hate on them and argue with people who defend them. Nothing will change that.
Nothing I have said is factually inaccurate. I gave my opinion and provided a logical basis for how I formed my opinion.
You are welcome to disagree, but strawmen and fake "quotations" don't seem to add to the conversation.
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On October 08 2013 09:44 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:36 Xiphos wrote:On October 08 2013 09:31 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 08 2013 09:20 Xiphos wrote:On October 08 2013 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. where do you get off accusing of them switching for fame and money? sc2 was a new game. almost everyone who played sc:bw switched to sc2 because of the fact that it was a new game that everyone was waiting for. Except for Kespa players. And don't give me bullshit because of Kespa restriction. Look at MVP, ZergBong, and Iron. They switched right after SC2's release. i fail to see the relevance. none of that shows that tastosis and day9 went to sc2 for fame and money rather than them just switching to the newest hit from blizzard. its not terribly surprising that players under contract with kespa and making salaries stayed with the game that paid their salaries. It may surprise you but Tastosis and Day9 constantly bashes SC2 and praise BW but they put their poker face on and plowed ahead in games. Tasteless just don't give any crap. I prefer Apollo much better than him. Day9 said "I just miss how fun BW is..." on baseball vs Frisbee analogy video of SC2 vs BW but yet never really try to grow the scene. Think logically, why would they want to be a place where they rather not to be in the first place? Well money is definitely a good source of motivation and....well....fame as non-Koreans plays more SC2 than BW! you have an interesting sense of "proof." they moved on and, apparently, so should you.
I take that as a concession.
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On October 08 2013 09:46 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:39 Plansix wrote:On October 08 2013 09:36 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:34 Plansix wrote:On October 08 2013 09:31 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:28 Plansix wrote:On October 08 2013 09:21 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
Please, the old boys club put in their time and made themselves what they are. Tastless, for example, has shown no SC2 knowledge whatsoever. He didn't seem to play at all even shortly after launch. He did not do any research on players, or have any knowledge relevant to casting. He doesn't really seem to do anything, other than collect paycheques and solicit "donations" for his friends. On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
And the movie is coming out at Blizzcon from all reports. The lack of updates sucked, but lets not go nuts here and just pitchfork everyone because you don't like that they are successful. All reports? One tweet from their manager, not explicitly saying so but actually being vague? Is there anything else? Please, are you kidding me. Your just on the hate train now. The bias reeks off you. I can get being upset about the Kickstarter, everyone hasn't gotten what they wanted. But claiming that Artosis and Tasteless are money grubbing assholes that hate the community is just a pile of horse shit. I always know I am right when people start throwing out strawmen. That means my actual views are so completely accurate and unassailable you have to make things up like claiming I said they "hate the community". Why would they hate the goose that lays the golden egg? You are so desperate to attack me you are fabricating absurdities. I don't really have logical arguments with people who say "Tastetosis are just greedy an in it for the money." As my father always said, "don't argue with drunks or fools". Your just on the hate train, son. Don't matter how many times you use the word "stawman". To paraphrase an old saying: "If you have nothing logical to say, don't say it at all." Your post count is not a currency. It doesn't change the fact that you are set on hating Artosis and Tasteless and any attempt to convince you otherwise will not change your mind. Any effort I make to have a ration discussion will be wasted. You are not here to discuss things, you are here to hate on Artosis and Tasteless. My post count has little to do with it. You are here because you want to hate on them and argue with people who defend them. Nothing will change that. Nothing I have said is factually inaccurate. I gave my opinion and provided a logical basis for how I formed my opinion. You are welcome to disagree, but strawmen and fake "quotations" don't seem to add to the conversation.
Although correct, you are using the same argument that every troll and hater makes.
1:Nothing I have said is factually incorrect, even if I cherry pick my facts to suit my argument
2[ Its my opinion and I am entitled to it, even if it angers people
3: I have the right to discuss stuff and you calling me out on being overwhelming negative and ignoring peoples counter points doesn't "add" to the discussion
Your opinion is your own and you are entitled to it. Just like I am entitled to my opinion of your arguments and that they are terrible, poorly thought out and use cherry picked facts and quotes. Just like you are entitled to voice your opinion on Tasteless and Artosis, I can voice mine as well.
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On October 08 2013 09:30 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:24 Conti wrote:On October 08 2013 09:08 Xiphos wrote:On October 08 2013 09:04 Conti wrote:On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. I opened this thread and this was the first comment I read. Nooope. Nopenopenope. It might surprise you, but there are far easier ways to get money than from SC2. In fact, it is incredibly hard to make a living out of SC2. Casters are making a lot more than your average player that's for sure. They do? Define "average caster", define "average player". Artosis and Tasteless are not "your average caster", they are the best of the best, and most likely the best earning, too. So it is only fair to compare them to the best players, and there they sure as hell lose against the likes of MVP and MC. The top players have made >$400.000 on prize winnings alone, plus salary. I dare say that the top casters will not even come close to that kind of money. Now for "your average caster". Let's pick Kaelaris, or Rotterdam. I have absolutely no idea what they earn, of course, but I really can't see them earning anything more than your average salary, enough to pay your bills and occasionally pay your flight to a big event even if they're not paid for it. Compare that to your average player, say, TLO, who is most likely getting the same kind of salary, plus tournament earnings (close to $40.000 for TLO). Again, player wins. Then we have the semi-professional players and casters. People who play in weekly cups and win now and again, and the casters who cast these weekly events to try and make a name for them. Neither group is going to earn very much, and most of them very likely get no money at all for their playing and their casting. So.. where on earth does the "casters make big money" meme come from, exactly? "Artosis and Tasteless are not "your average caster", they are the best of the bes.." Stopped reading there because of your reading skills as I never said they are your average casters. You need to be more in context. The guy was saying that "it is incredibly hard to make a living out of SC2." which is simply not true for these guys. I refuted him on that.
It is hilarious that you complain about my reading skills while you at the same time did not realize that "the guy" you were mentioning was, in fact, me.
Not to mention that "it is incredibly hard to make a living out of SC2" is not a statement that is refuted by saying "but there are people that make a living out of SC2", as you did. Both statements can live in harmony right next to each other and be true.
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On October 08 2013 09:53 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:46 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:39 Plansix wrote:On October 08 2013 09:36 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:34 Plansix wrote:On October 08 2013 09:31 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:28 Plansix wrote:On October 08 2013 09:21 Zaqwe wrote:On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
Please, the old boys club put in their time and made themselves what they are. Tastless, for example, has shown no SC2 knowledge whatsoever. He didn't seem to play at all even shortly after launch. He did not do any research on players, or have any knowledge relevant to casting. He doesn't really seem to do anything, other than collect paycheques and solicit "donations" for his friends. On October 08 2013 09:15 Plansix wrote:
And the movie is coming out at Blizzcon from all reports. The lack of updates sucked, but lets not go nuts here and just pitchfork everyone because you don't like that they are successful. All reports? One tweet from their manager, not explicitly saying so but actually being vague? Is there anything else? Please, are you kidding me. Your just on the hate train now. The bias reeks off you. I can get being upset about the Kickstarter, everyone hasn't gotten what they wanted. But claiming that Artosis and Tasteless are money grubbing assholes that hate the community is just a pile of horse shit. I always know I am right when people start throwing out strawmen. That means my actual views are so completely accurate and unassailable you have to make things up like claiming I said they "hate the community". Why would they hate the goose that lays the golden egg? You are so desperate to attack me you are fabricating absurdities. I don't really have logical arguments with people who say "Tastetosis are just greedy an in it for the money." As my father always said, "don't argue with drunks or fools". Your just on the hate train, son. Don't matter how many times you use the word "stawman". To paraphrase an old saying: "If you have nothing logical to say, don't say it at all." Your post count is not a currency. It doesn't change the fact that you are set on hating Artosis and Tasteless and any attempt to convince you otherwise will not change your mind. Any effort I make to have a ration discussion will be wasted. You are not here to discuss things, you are here to hate on Artosis and Tasteless. My post count has little to do with it. You are here because you want to hate on them and argue with people who defend them. Nothing will change that. Nothing I have said is factually inaccurate. I gave my opinion and provided a logical basis for how I formed my opinion. You are welcome to disagree, but strawmen and fake "quotations" don't seem to add to the conversation. Although correct, you are using the same argument that every troll and hater makes. 1:Nothing I have said is factually incorrect, even if I cherry pick my facts to suit my argument 2[ Its my opinion and I am entitled to it, even if it angers people 3: I have the right to discuss stuff and you calling me out on being overwhelming negative and ignoring peoples counter points doesn't "add" to the discussion Your opinion is your own and you are entitled to it. Just like I am entitled to my opinion of your arguments and that they are terrible, poorly thought out and use cherry picked facts and quotes. Just like you are entitled to voice your opinion on Tasteless and Artosis, I can voice mine as well.
You haven't really said a word in defense of Tasteless and Artosis. You have only attempted to attack me (using strawmen and fake quotes, as my logic seems sound).
It's a fallacy to think attacking me personally somehow can invalidate my opinion. An opinion is just that. The examples I gave which helped form my opinion are real and valid.
It would be more productive if you gave counter examples, or explained why you think so highly of them.
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On October 08 2013 09:52 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:44 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 08 2013 09:36 Xiphos wrote:On October 08 2013 09:31 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 08 2013 09:20 Xiphos wrote:On October 08 2013 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. where do you get off accusing of them switching for fame and money? sc2 was a new game. almost everyone who played sc:bw switched to sc2 because of the fact that it was a new game that everyone was waiting for. Except for Kespa players. And don't give me bullshit because of Kespa restriction. Look at MVP, ZergBong, and Iron. They switched right after SC2's release. i fail to see the relevance. none of that shows that tastosis and day9 went to sc2 for fame and money rather than them just switching to the newest hit from blizzard. its not terribly surprising that players under contract with kespa and making salaries stayed with the game that paid their salaries. It may surprise you but Tastosis and Day9 constantly bashes SC2 and praise BW but they put their poker face on and plowed ahead in games. Tasteless just don't give any crap. I prefer Apollo much better than him. Day9 said "I just miss how fun BW is..." on baseball vs Frisbee analogy video of SC2 vs BW but yet never really try to grow the scene. Think logically, why would they want to be a place where they rather not to be in the first place? Well money is definitely a good source of motivation and....well....fame as non-Koreans plays more SC2 than BW! you have an interesting sense of "proof." they moved on and, apparently, so should you. I take that as a concession.
i imagine you would.
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So.. where on earth does the "casters make big money" meme come from, exactly?
I can clear this up! I think this was one of the first times the community got the idea that casters make big money.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290205¤tpage=9#162
Posted by incontrol responding to fxoboss
Huk has the ability to speak for "players" that is a generalization. None of huk's examples were "I am not paid enough" or "I feel like I deserve much more money etc" he was speaking in general.. players ARE paid a helluva lot less than casters are. In general, casters are treated like THE super stars that are the most important thing while players are 2nd rate.
Did you know Day9 made around 20k dream hack weekend? How much do you think TB made? This kind of stuff happens every tourney.. players go and make as little as 0$ or as much as significantly less than the casters... if a player wants to say "there should be some middle ground here" he should NOT get called out by someone who some people think has clout (you).
Why the HELL would you ever want to argue against a player saying that players in general should be treated better and paid more on a level towards the casters?
There have been other hints but I'm not going to look them all up so I hope I'm not misremembering.
Idra once said on a show that he did not like day9 because he pretends to be poor for donations from fans when he is in fact rich.
Tasteless said in his real talk with jp that he was successful and living in one of the more expensive parts of the city for wealthy.
TB once posted on teamliquid that he was making 2500 for one MLG weekend, but that it wasn't that much because he could make much more from videos he could be posting on youtube instead,
Maybe Sundance talking about how tastosis won't be at MLG because they are asking to much.
I think that's everything. Of note is that tasteless's EMG manager guy and husky have also appeared on a talk show to say that the casters are getting payed far to little compared to what they could be making in other industries, and should have their salaries raised. (And if the tournaments can't afford to pay them more with the viewercounts they get they are doing their business horribly wrong)
And of course I agree that your examples of rotti and Kaelaris are probably getting payed a lot less then these guys are.
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On October 08 2013 09:36 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 09:31 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 08 2013 09:20 Xiphos wrote:On October 08 2013 08:53 dAPhREAk wrote:On October 08 2013 08:37 Xiphos wrote:
^Honestly, after Artosis, Tasteless, and Day[9] immediately ditched BW to seek more fame and receive more money from SC2 is the moment I don't give any crap about them anymore regardless of they may say.
Peoples needs to realize that majority of the people are selfish and greedy. They would do anything for cash or to spread their names and quit being naive. I've learned it the hard way with BW to SC2 transition. Fuck this whole "passion" persona when more money is involved. where do you get off accusing of them switching for fame and money? sc2 was a new game. almost everyone who played sc:bw switched to sc2 because of the fact that it was a new game that everyone was waiting for. Except for Kespa players. And don't give me bullshit because of Kespa restriction. Look at MVP, ZergBong, and Iron. They switched right after SC2's release. i fail to see the relevance. none of that shows that tastosis and day9 went to sc2 for fame and money rather than them just switching to the newest hit from blizzard. its not terribly surprising that players under contract with kespa and making salaries stayed with the game that paid their salaries. It may surprise you but Tastosis and Day9 constantly bashes SC2 and praise BW but they put their poker face on and plowed ahead in games. Tasteless just don't give any crap. I prefer Apollo much better than him. Day9 said "I just miss how fun BW is..." on baseball vs Frisbee analogy video of SC2 vs BW but yet never really try to grow the scene. Think logically, why would they want to be a place where they rather not to be in the first place? Well money is definitely a good source of motivation and....well....fame as non-Koreans plays more SC2 than BW!
Yeah, you have a good point. Though while BW is better, there's really not much they can do about it. These guys are trying to make a living, and SC2 is the next best thing to BW basically.
Plus, as good as BW is, it got boring after a while. SC2 was supposed to be better than BW but it's currently not at the moment.
Besides that, there's still potential with SC2.
As for the talk about Tasteless not caring about SC2? It is true he doesn't really play SC2 but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about it. Also, at least he was a good BW player and caster, so even if he didn't know much, you can say at least he had a good past and he did contribute a lot to the scene back when it was small.
If anything, it shows a lot of character that he did what he did in BW, which was a huge risk. BW in terms of pro gaming, was basically unknown outside of South Korea. For him to do all he did for BW, was a lot. Compared to now, SC2 is much more well known and popular internationally. Tasteless started with BW which was relatively unknown (in terms of pro gaming) and stuck with it to SC2, and that's a lot. He risked it and it paid off and I say he deserves it. As for not caring much about SC2? Well, it's up to Blizzard to restore Tasteless' passion for the game. If he doesn't like it as much as BW, it's not his fault. And at least he's sticking with it and providing a lot of entertaining commentary and casts.
Also, I disagree with Artosis is carrying Tasteless in terms of casts. While yes, Artosis is more knowledgeable about SC2, Tasteless (and Artosis together) is what keeps me interested in watching SC2. The two make a good duo and I don't like any other Artosis combo as I do with Tasteless. Artosis and Apollo or Artosis and Wolf are just not as fun or entertaining to me as Artosis and Tasteless. And I think Tasteless (and Artosis, together) are brilliant when it comes to entertaining the audience. It may not seem like much and some may argue, talking about the game is more important but at least with me, I enjoy SC2 because of the community and the casters, and not simply because of the game itself.
When you look at things, part of what makes you play a video game is because it's supposed to provide fun and be relaxing and in some cases, it helps you go from day to day in your life if things aren't going well. I like a lot of their commentary that isn't related to SC2 and it really draws me time and time again.
If it was be a pure SC2 commentary or something, I wouldn't really care or bothering watching it as much (in terms of SC2, it's really the community that makes it for me rather than just the game).
Also, Tasteless has still shown some good insight to things recently. Like, on a recent piece (forgot which company, it was from a notable news outlet) about video game addiction or something, he got interviewed offered really good answers IMO (though you can argue most people would have known or gave the same answers but still, it at least shows he knows a decent amount and not just some average person that somehow got the casting gig).
Also again, I said it on the previous page, but about SC2 calling out that person who asked for a translator job, was it that incident with Tasteless thinking the guy who asked wanted John's job? If it was, he was just trying to defend John since it seemed the guy wanted the job to replace John (while the guy said he didn't think of it like that and thought John would be able to do something else too). He apologized afterwards to the guy on air.
Of course again, if it was some other incident, disregard. But the incident that had to do with some translator asking Tasteless for a job or something at GOM, I only remember that one and it was fair on all sides IMO (just some misunderstandings and no ill intent).
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EPT
