On September 25 2012 13:25 Fionn wrote: Guys, stop being mean to DeathAngel. He never said he was an Angel. He's a bad guy. A rebel. A DEATH Angel. He's sorry, guys. Leave him alone, man.
On September 25 2012 12:54 veralynn wrote: First of all, I'm glad I got caught and I can finally end this - My intentions were to help grow e-sports which I achieved through running Z33K.TV, but this has obviously turned out horribly wrong and has accomplished the complete opposite to what my intentions were:
I'm a masters Zerg player and needed coaching to help me to get to Grandmasters. I contacted a website for a coach and was put in touch with Deathangel. However, instead of coaching, we discussed that he'd boost my account to Grandmasters to give me that initial boost to help me.
Once it got to grandmasters, he continued to play the account for me regularly to keep bonus pool down/keep it active. While this happened, I put up a coaching profile to coach people. As I had never coached people, I did numerous hours of free coaching on my stream.
While this happened, Deathangel continued to play the account and I tried to do some coaching etc. In total, I had 3 paid coaching students. Any feedback on coaching I received was from free coaching and NOT paid coaching. I have since refunded those students and apologise if it was not helpful.
As people requested to see me stream, I asked Deathangel to stream on the account for me. He streamed regularly but charged $20-$30 an hour for each stream he did. Outside of streaming, each game that Deathangel played, he charged $3 per game, and as he regularly played for me, he did mini-discounts.
When I was invited to play any event - Millenium Girl Tournament & AGL Invitational - that he played, he took the entire prize, which I have also refunded to the organisers - I am sorry for this being under false pretenses. I have refunded the money that I never received as I gave it to DeathAngel.
We subsequently agreed to play Showmatches and he was very happy to do them - I gave him 100% of the prizes. I did not invoice SixPoolGaming for the showmatch against Sjow or Cytoplasm and so never received any money from them - However, I sent the relevant prize to DeathAngel immediately. I never received the MilleniumTV Tarson Showmatch money (yet), but I have already sent him the prize for that.
The entire thing was a terrible idea, and I apologise to all people who were hurt by this.
I am especially sorry to Z33K.TV and Z33K.Com as I grew the casting organisation with the casters and am sorry to leave it. Rifkin, Badfatpanda, Pengwin, and the rest - You guys were so close to me and this spiralled out of control. Z33K.TV grew to cast Dreamhack Valencia, TSL Qualifiers, Pokerstrategy.com League and run its own $1,000 Team league and If I had stopped it earlier, perhaps we could've continued on to grow it more - I apologise for misleading you like this.
I am happy to step away from my position as head of Z33K.TV and will happily assist in any handover procedures necessary.
I am also sorry to sixpoolgaming.com for any damage caused to their reputation - they are a great site and helped me so much and I apologise to them.
What I have said here is 100% the truth from my perspective, and thus I do not intend to make any follow up posts regarding this - I am happy to step away from the Starcraft 2 Community in a professional capacity and bid you all farewell.
Wow.. Wow..
Thank you for responding and admitting your wrongs. I hope that what you've said about refunding everyone is actually true.
I hope everything else is actually true as well..
This puts a lot of questions back on death angel.. who has been telling a very different story.
Until her statements about refunds are confirmed by the other parties, there is no reason to believe her. Her bridges are already burnt, and she's cutting ties with this community. A con artist like this wouldn't mind saving some cash on the way out (even though this con was about more than cash).
I can understand DeathAngel's motivations here, and I get why he did what he did. There's a difference between that and condoning it though. It's an ugly world.
This is true. Also until Vera shows proof of DA pressuring her, or the reverse, DA somehow proves he was asked by her and indeed didn't know as much (harder to do).. Then I think no one should pass full judgement, even if her story does seem more plausible.. cuz DA's response was in fact very stupid... Like I was trying to tell him, giving us half the story and ignoring the important questions is only causing further and possibly irreparable damage to him.
On September 25 2012 12:54 veralynn wrote: First of all, I'm glad I got caught and I can finally end this - My intentions were to help grow e-sports which I achieved through running Z33K.TV, but this has obviously turned out horribly wrong and has accomplished the complete opposite to what my intentions were:
I'm a masters Zerg player and needed coaching to help me to get to Grandmasters. I contacted a website for a coach and was put in touch with Deathangel. However, instead of coaching, we discussed that he'd boost my account to Grandmasters to give me that initial boost to help me.
Once it got to grandmasters, he continued to play the account for me regularly to keep bonus pool down/keep it active. While this happened, I put up a coaching profile to coach people. As I had never coached people, I did numerous hours of free coaching on my stream. This was known to Deathangel.
While this happened, Deathangel continued to play the account and I tried to do some coaching etc. In total, I had 3 paid coaching students. Any feedback on coaching I received was from free coaching and NOT paid coaching. I have since refunded those students and apologise if it was not helpful.
As people requested to see me stream, I asked Deathangel to stream on the account for me. He streamed regularly but charged $20-$30 an hour for each stream he did. Outside of streaming, each game that Deathangel played, he charged $3 per game, and as he regularly played for me, he did mini-discounts.
When I was invited to play any event - Millenium Girl Tournament & AGL Invitational - that he played, he took the entire prize, which I have also refunded to the organisers - I am sorry for this being under false pretenses. I have refunded the money that I never received as I gave it to DeathAngel.
We subsequently agreed to play Showmatches and he was very happy to do them - I gave him 100% of the prizes. I did not invoice SixPoolGaming for the showmatch against Sjow or Cytoplasm and so never received any money from them - However, I sent the relevant prize to DeathAngel immediately. I never received the MilleniumTV Tarson Showmatch money (yet), but I have already sent him the prize for that.
The entire thing was a terrible idea, and I apologise to all people who were hurt by this.
I am especially sorry to Z33K.TV and Z33K.Com as I grew the casting organisation with the casters and am sorry to leave it. Rifkin, Badfatpanda, Pengwin, and the rest - You guys were so close to me and this spiralled out of control. Z33K.TV grew to cast Dreamhack Valencia, TSL Qualifiers, Pokerstrategy.com League and run its own $1,000 Team league and If I had stopped it earlier, perhaps we could've continued on to grow it more - I apologise for misleading you like this.
I am happy to step away from my position as head of Z33K.TV and will happily assist in any handover procedures necessary.
I am also sorry to sixpoolgaming.com for any damage caused to their reputation - they are a great site and helped me so much and I apologise to them.
What I have said here is 100% the truth from my perspective, and thus I do not intend to make any follow up posts regarding this - I am happy to step away from the Starcraft 2 Community in a professional capacity and bid you all farewell.
Well shit just hit the fan... Now I don't even know what to think.. black list both?? I don't know, I am starting to loose my patience and my caring for this subject.
However I do want to point out on thing which I was curious about. You mentioned you refunded the 3 people you coached personally. However you made no mention of refunding money to anyone that paid (sixpoolgaming I think?) for your video packs, someone around page 30 mentioned that just yesterday he spent $100 on a replay/coaching pack of yours that had something like 12 videos. Anyway not sure about the details, but I am sure you can look it up. Are you going to refund that money? I am assuming it is sixpoolgaming that has it.. I dunno.
Actually here is the quote:
On September 25 2012 11:41 iHirO wrote: At least one person is out of pocket:
On September 25 2012 11:09 Canucklehead wrote: Death angel is trying to play the dumb naive guy in his post. I don't buy that for a second and believe he was fully aware of what he was doing. His post is just trying to make excuses for his actions instead of taking responsibility for them.
my friend.. if I wanna scamm you , I can take everything you have , but I don't want that .. I love you like you are .
If I would like to do coaching , I would do it on my own.. it just happened that I played someone's account and the owner of that account tried to scamm some ppl .
But I think there wasn't any paid coaching.. I really wanna know who really paid any coaching to veralynn.. cause I think it is just a rumour.. this can't be true..
Reps from SixPoolGaming have already come forward and said that people that paid for coaching from Veralynn messaged them complaining asking for a refund after they saw this entire scam going on.
Just to clarify, we never offered her coaching services and know nothing about how that was run. We offer training videos from multiple gamers for a monthly fee.
On September 25 2012 09:19 Zoraque wrote: I doubt it, pretty sure she obtained more than $1000 usd due to her coaching etc. People only bought coaching from her because of her results (which happened to be a fraud)
How much was she charging for her coaching? Anyone who bought time with her should try and get their money back via however they paid. I think 6pool gaming should try and compensate victims with something, since she was representing them while conducing this fraud
Someone mentioned they bought one of her 12 lesson packages for $100, but I don't know the rates.
At SixPoolGaming we don't offer coaching services; we offer training videos, tutorials and the like for a low monthly subscription fee (and you get access to every coach's videos for this fee). The only thing SPG contributed for her coaching credibility was their name, which I doubt affected the decisions of her students (I could be wrong?). Even if someone subscribed to SPG for Vera's videos specifically I am sure the rest of the content on the site is adequate for them. Vera did however advertise her coaching through a listing on z33k.com.
On September 25 2012 13:15 sathin wrote: i love how now shes trying to bring DA down with her i feel bad for him in this predicament if he really was just trying to see if he could compete against top names then again skimming code A you would think he knew... idk i feel bad for him no sympathy for her i feel she cheated a lot of people and is now throwing DA as far under the bus as she can just out of spite of being caught
Veralynn's responses sound pretty honest compared to DA. Read the last few pages.
And you are going to forgive her?
Forgiveness isn't the issue. Considering she paid everyone back, resigned from everything, and deleted all her information, along with saying she isn't going to be involved in the professional starcraft scene anymore, I don't see the point of focusing the attention on her is. She can't be punished more if she paid everyone back and left the scene can she?
Actually she doesn't lose anything. She paid for having a good time, and she had it.
But the community is the one getting all the shit. I mentioned this in my previous post. Online tournaments and qualifier's credibility could be damaged by her actions. And nothing can be done to prevent this to happen again, because of the nature of those tournaments/qualifiers are based on trust.
First of all, I'd like to say I appreciate Vera coming forward finally and providing her side of the story. That said, more questions have been raised. DeathAngel repeatedly claimed to not receive any monetary compensation while Vera posted his specific rates. While it's hard to trust either of them, it's hard to believe that Vera is lying about financially compensating DA with so many holes in his story (forget grammar, his English is good enough to know the difference between being paid and not being paid).
On the point of only having three paid students, I don't buy it. As far as I know z33k.com charges money to be listed per month, and it would not be worthwhile for her to keep it listed for months. Additionally her page had TWENTY testimonials on it. Several were from free coaching but I find it hard to believe that 17+ of them were from free coaching. On this matter, when I was talking to her she would often cite paid coaching as a reason for not streaming (too busy with Z33K.TV, and paid coaching). While this may have simply been a lie to keep up appearances, it shouldn't be discounted out of hand.
I really don't get why people are hating so much on deathangel. It's obvious english isn't his main langauge and he isn't veru well versed in it, while veralyn is so she makes a better point. Her whole post feels like she's trying to shift the blame onto deathangel by saying "well he insisted he play for me." And people start buying it for some reason, maybe because she's a girl?
On September 25 2012 13:31 hunts wrote: I really don't get why people are hating so much on deathangel. It's obvious english isn't his main langauge and he isn't veru well versed in it, while veralyn is so she makes a better point. Her whole post feels like she's trying to shift the blame onto deathangel by saying "well he insisted he play for me." And people start buying it for some reason, maybe because she's a girl?
Both of them equally f**ked up, there is no more or less for either of them.
On September 25 2012 13:15 sathin wrote: i love how now shes trying to bring DA down with her i feel bad for him in this predicament if he really was just trying to see if he could compete against top names then again skimming code A you would think he knew... idk i feel bad for him no sympathy for her i feel she cheated a lot of people and is now throwing DA as far under the bus as she can just out of spite of being caught
Veralynn's responses sound pretty honest compared to DA. Read the last few pages.
And you are going to forgive her?
Forgiveness isn't the issue. Considering she paid everyone back, resigned from everything, and deleted all her information, along with saying she isn't going to be involved in the professional starcraft scene anymore, I don't see the point of focusing the attention on her is. She can't be punished more if she paid everyone back and left the scene can she?
Actually she doesn't lose anything. She payed for having a good time, and she had it.
But the community is the one getting all the shit. I mentioned this in my previous post. Online tournaments and qualifier's credibility could be damaged by her actions. And nothing can be done to prevent this to happen again, because of the nature of those tournaments/qualifiers are based on trust.
It's bigger than what you think.
Regardless of whether she 'loses anything' or not, she paid everyone back and is removing herself from the scene. Forgive her or not I don't see how it's relevant. I would think that verifying how valid Deathangel's statements are given the new information would take precedence.
On September 25 2012 13:13 veralynn wrote: There are 2 things that I did wrong - One financial and one moral/ethical.
I can rectify the financial situation by issuing refunds
Those who received refunds can confirm the above should they wish.
I cannot fully rectify or answer the moral/ethical questions - I have done what I see is all I can do retrospectively by giving the entire truth of the situation.
Again, I do not intend on responding unless it is necessary.
Yea refund now, when the whole SC2 community saw how shit this situation is.
it's still better than just doing nothing at all, shows she's willing to "fix" things or somewhat regret it
she could have just disappeared...
Or she's smart enough to see there's still a way to salvage the situation.
Just like the pathological liar she is she'll always try and continue the charade because to her it's a zero sum game.
We all know that one guy who piles on the lies and even when he's found out he tries to pile on more to try and salvage the situation.
who cares if she's lying or what her motivations are, she's refunding people... what the fuck more do you want
On September 25 2012 13:07 Tewks44 wrote: Here's my two cents.
VeraLynn asked for coaching from DeathAngel and during the exchange, someone suggested that DeathAngel smurf on VeraLynn's account. I really have no way of knowing who started it, so I won't bother on speculation in this regard. Basically, what happened was VeraLynn was paying DeathAngel to smurf on her account, and DeathAngel got a lot more show match and tourney invites, and got to collect the winnings. DeathAngel gets to make quite a bit more money, and VeraLynn pays a fairly modest price for relative fame within a particular community.
I still feel more wrong doing than most for what DA did... I think the fact he was the one making the money shows just how corrupt he is (and to lie and say it was only for smurfing.. wow, he prob thought vera was gone for good and could get away with it). Anyway, we will never know who suggested it without proof even if Vera's story seems more believable.. I don't think the language barrier is large enough (his english is decent enough) that it can be THAT misunderstood.
On September 25 2012 13:31 PengWin_SC wrote: First of all, I'd like to say I appreciate Vera coming forward finally and providing her side of the story. That said, more questions have been raised. DeathAngel repeatedly claimed to not receive any monetary compensation while Vera posted his specific rates. While it's hard to trust either of them, it's hard to believe that Vera is lying about financially compensating DA with so many holes in his story (forget grammar, his English is good enough to know the difference between being paid and not being paid).
On the point of only having three paid students, I don't buy it. As far as I know z33k.com charges money to be listed per month, and it would not be worthwhile for her to keep it listed for months. Additionally her page had TWENTY testimonials on it. Several were from free coaching but I find it hard to believe that 17+ of them were from free coaching. On this matter, when I was talking to her she would often cite paid coaching as a reason for not streaming (too busy with Z33K.TV, and paid coaching). While this may have simply been a lie to keep up appearances, it shouldn't be discounted out of hand.
And keep in mind Tang has 20 testimonials as well, and he gets quite a lot of paying students... so if the ratio of customers to reviewers are anywhere near the same, I have a difficult time believing this. Again this is also with my experience running AceLessons last year in mind as well. Since I ran the web backend I saw all the numbers... it's really hard for me to believe.
On September 25 2012 13:31 hunts wrote: I really don't get why people are hating so much on deathangel. It's obvious english isn't his main langauge and he isn't veru well versed in it, while veralyn is so she makes a better point. Her whole post feels like she's trying to shift the blame onto deathangel by saying "well he insisted he play for me." And people start buying it for some reason, maybe because she's a girl?
She admitted that she was paying DeathAngel for his "services." It seems to me that her post was far more genuine than the nonsense DeathAngel has been spewing out.
On September 25 2012 13:15 sathin wrote: i love how now shes trying to bring DA down with her i feel bad for him in this predicament if he really was just trying to see if he could compete against top names then again skimming code A you would think he knew... idk i feel bad for him no sympathy for her i feel she cheated a lot of people and is now throwing DA as far under the bus as she can just out of spite of being caught
Veralynn's responses sound pretty honest compared to DA. Read the last few pages.
And you are going to forgive her?
Forgiveness isn't the issue. Considering she paid everyone back, resigned from everything, and deleted all her information, along with saying she isn't going to be involved in the professional starcraft scene anymore, I don't see the point of focusing the attention on her is. She can't be punished more if she paid everyone back and left the scene can she?
Actually she doesn't lose anything. She payed for having a good time, and she had it.
But the community is the one getting all the shit. I mentioned this in my previous post. Online tournaments and qualifier's credibility could be damaged by her actions. And nothing can be done to prevent this to happen again, because of the nature of those tournaments/qualifiers are based on trust.
It's bigger than what you think.
Well she loses money no matter how you spin it. Like Gowser said, she could have easily just left the scene without paying back some people. It IS better than nothing. Obviously everything else can`t be repaired but no point focusing on her and complaining about spilled milk. There was nothing else we could ask of her besides do that and leave the scene.
Of course, looking at that screenshot - she only returned money when she got CAUGHT. She's still scum. If she hadn't been found out she'd have kept doing it forever. We've no reason to believe otherwise.
On September 25 2012 13:13 veralynn wrote: There are 2 things that I did wrong - One financial and one moral/ethical.
I can rectify the financial situation by issuing refunds
Those who received refunds can confirm the above should they wish.
I cannot fully rectify or answer the moral/ethical questions - I have done what I see is all I can do retrospectively by giving the entire truth of the situation.
Again, I do not intend on responding unless it is necessary.
Yea refund now, when the whole SC2 community saw how shit this situation is.
it's still better than just doing nothing at all, shows she's willing to "fix" things or somewhat regret it
she could have just disappeared...
Or she's smart enough to see there's still a way to salvage the situation.
Just like the pathological liar she is she'll always try and continue the charade because to her it's a zero sum game.
We all know that one guy who piles on the lies and even when he's found out he tries to pile on more to try and salvage the situation.
who cares if she's lying or what her motivations are, she's refunding people... what the fuck more do you want
On September 25 2012 13:15 sathin wrote: i love how now shes trying to bring DA down with her i feel bad for him in this predicament if he really was just trying to see if he could compete against top names then again skimming code A you would think he knew... idk i feel bad for him no sympathy for her i feel she cheated a lot of people and is now throwing DA as far under the bus as she can just out of spite of being caught
Veralynn's responses sound pretty honest compared to DA. Read the last few pages.
And you are going to forgive her?
Forgiveness isn't the issue. Considering she paid everyone back, resigned from everything, and deleted all her information, along with saying she isn't going to be involved in the professional starcraft scene anymore, I don't see the point of focusing the attention on her is. She can't be punished more if she paid everyone back and left the scene can she?
Actually she doesn't lose anything. She payed for having a good time, and she had it.
But the community is the one getting all the shit. I mentioned this in my previous post. Online tournaments and qualifier's credibility could be damaged by her actions. And nothing can be done to prevent this to happen again, because of the nature of those tournaments/qualifiers are based on trust.
It's bigger than what you think.
Regardless of whether she 'loses anything' or not, she paid everyone back and is removing herself from the scene. Forgive her or not I don't see how it's relevant. I would think that verifying how valid Deathangel's statements are given the new information would take precedence.
There is no way to verify that neither. DA simply should be black listed for at least 1 year (seems reasonable, and it's not that much if you consider Hots will be just released by that time). This would establish a precedent, to discourage this behavior.
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