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Hadn't seen this posted yet. Adds some necessary swarm host/warhound nerfing.
We will be bringing down the beta server today at 4:30 PM PDT in order to perform a few balance changes. We do not expect a lengthy downtime and will report to this thread when the service is live after the maintenance. Below are the changes being implemented:
BALANCE CHANGES
- Warhound Weapon attack delay has increased from 1.3 to 1.7.
- Swarm host locust attack damage has decreased from 16 to 14.
- Viper Consume can no longer be used on creep tumors.
- Oracle Preordain duration has decreased from 2 min to 1 min.
- Viper Blinding Cloud now hits everything, but the radius of effect has reduced from 2.5 to 1.5.
- Widow mines will no longer damage each other with their splash damage.
- The bug affecting the Overlord speed upgrade has been fixed. Upgraded Overlords will now travel at the expected speed of 1.88.
HOTKEY CHANGES
Oracle
- Revelation has changed from E to R.
- Entomb has changed from R to E.
Mothership Core
- Energize has changed from N to E.
- Purify has changed from E to F.
Swarm host
- Spawn locust has changed from W to C.
Fleet Beacon
- Research Gravity Sling has changed from T to G.
- Research Bosonic Core has changed from G to A.
Hydralisk Den
- Evolve Muscular Augments has changed from C to A.
Ok apparently I'm fucking retarded and was completely unaware of a separate HotS forum. I'm sorry everyone, and close this thread as need be.
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Cool. I still think the Warhound is OP as heck against Toss
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does this mean that blinding cloud works against protoss now? i don't understand
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On September 08 2012 09:10 Encrypto wrote:
- Viper Blinding Cloud now hits everything, but the radius of effect has reduced from 2.5 to 1.5.
Can someone explain this to me? What did Viper Blinding cloud "not hit"?
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So what we get is a... 25% dps decrease for warhound?
I'd have expected something totally different(Range, movespeed, missiles)
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On September 08 2012 09:14 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 09:10 Encrypto wrote:
- Viper Blinding Cloud now hits everything, but the radius of effect has reduced from 2.5 to 1.5.
Can someone explain this to me? What did Viper Blinding cloud "not hit"?
Didn't it work only on bio?
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THERES A HOTS FORUM?!?
EDIT: I was unaware, sorry.
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- Widow mines will no longer damage each other with their splash damage.
Way to take more skill out of the game, Blizzard. I was actually looking forward to people learning how to space out mines properly.
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Woah that's ridiculous! They're probably just testing out how blinding cloud would work vs. toss maybe. It would just be sooo strong in so many pvz situations, that i hope it doesn't carry out into HotS.
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Funny I don't see anything about the tempest. Is blizzard in denial?
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Blinding cloud should now work on all units, not just bio (with a new reduced range). Not sure that the range on the Warhound will be enough. Seems like supply should be the right change maybe?
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On September 08 2012 09:32 acrimoneyius wrote:Way to take more skill out of the game, Blizzard. I was actually looking forward to people learning how to space out mines properly.
at least now we can look forward to people actually making mines.
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On September 08 2012 09:32 acrimoneyius wrote:Way to take more skill out of the game, Blizzard. I was actually looking forward to people learning how to space out mines properly.
I dunno if I agree with that. Zergs haven't been asked to deal with friendly splash with banelings, seems sort of in the same vein.
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I feel like every aspect of the Warhound is overpowered. Attack speed, attack damage, movement speed, the missile cooldown and damage, supply cost and resource cost... all of them need to be slightly nerfed to make it a well rounded unit I think. It should be balanced so that it's rarely worth using against zerg/biological, but solidly worth it vs mech/protoss without being OP.
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Really glad to see blizzard is taking the "wait and see" approach with the beta balance. They've knee jerk reacted on nerfing Terran plenty of times, and there really has only been 2-3 days now for sample size of games with people learning the new units to know whether or not the unit is really OP or if it just sucks or if people in general suck at the new game.
People should honestly critize the design of the unit right now rather than it's balance because it may not actually be imbalanced and secondly if 2-3 weeks from now the case is that the warhound is too strong it will be tweaked further.
As for the widow mine, they knee jerk changed it before releasing the beta because it has a quadruple nerf on it. Reduced damage, reduced splash, requires 2 supply, requires armory.
This is almost another unacceptable knee-jerk "nerf" type of thing, they need to put the mine into testing and not be scared if it turns out to be really good, because right now the opposite has happened - the mine is useless.
And yes you read that correctly - a quadruple nerf to a unit before even going into testing. Right now the widow mine is reaper status to me.
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On September 08 2012 10:01 avilo wrote:
Really glad to see blizzard is taking the "wait and see" approach with the beta balance. They've knee jerk reacted on nerfing Terran plenty of times, and there really has only been 2-3 days now for sample size of games with people learning the new units to know whether or not the unit is really OP or if it just sucks or if people in general suck at the new game.
People should honestly critize the design of the unit right now rather than it's balance because it may not actually be imbalanced and secondly if 2-3 weeks from now the case is that it is it will be tweaked further.
As for the widow mine, they knee jerk changed it before releasing the beta because it has a quadruple nerf on it. Reduced damage, reduced splash, requires 2 supply, requires armory.
This is almost another unacceptable knee-jerk "nerf" type of thing, they need to put the mine into testing and not be scared if it turns out to be really good, because right now the opposite has happened - the mine is useless.
The design of the unit was to be anti-mech. If the numbers are so nuts that it's anti-everything, that's when then numbers actually change the design.
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On September 08 2012 10:04 fuzzylogic44 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 10:01 avilo wrote:
Really glad to see blizzard is taking the "wait and see" approach with the beta balance. They've knee jerk reacted on nerfing Terran plenty of times, and there really has only been 2-3 days now for sample size of games with people learning the new units to know whether or not the unit is really OP or if it just sucks or if people in general suck at the new game.
People should honestly critize the design of the unit right now rather than it's balance because it may not actually be imbalanced and secondly if 2-3 weeks from now the case is that it is it will be tweaked further.
As for the widow mine, they knee jerk changed it before releasing the beta because it has a quadruple nerf on it. Reduced damage, reduced splash, requires 2 supply, requires armory.
This is almost another unacceptable knee-jerk "nerf" type of thing, they need to put the mine into testing and not be scared if it turns out to be really good, because right now the opposite has happened - the mine is useless. The design of the unit was to be anti-mech. If the numbers are so nuts that it's anti-everything, that's when then numbers actually change the design.
And that's where you and most of everyone else, including myself a bit has no clue. It's not anti-everything. It's an all around mech unit which is apparently what they want to add to mech play to aid in transitioning to either thors/tanks to help mech players not die as easily or what not.
The video that someone posted of "warhounds vs this, warhounds vs that" was warhounds in a unit vacuum. The resulte of those tests literally are not anything to do with real 1v1 games and how games play out. There's other factors, different army compositions, abilities like storm/blinding cloud, terrain, game flow, etc to consider.
Not to mention they tweaked the attack speed. It's good that blizzard did not have a knee jerk reaction on the warhound or the swarm host or anything else in the game because things will appear to be OP at first and may not be in relation to all of the other new changes introduced into the game, as well as how the new changes interact with older units that were not seeing as much use.
An example of this would be protoss vs mech in wings of liberty. A very strong opening type of play style was utilizing mass immortals or void ray openings, but because bio is the 99% option in wings of liberty you rarely saw the void ray in TvP mid-game or more than 2 or so void rays.
The void ray is indirectly going to become a stronger protoss unit in heart of the swarm with more utility because more people from Terran are going to be utilizing mech. Very few protoss players understand how to play against mech right now.
I personally don't like the design of the warhound as a 1A type of unit or a bio unit in a mech skin (warhound can even stutter step) but what I do like about the warhound so far is that it gives mech players an all-around mech unit that allows them to not die to silly all-ins and like they would in wings of liberty, especially vs protoss, but against Zerg as well. To me right now it feels like a "bridging" aka transition unit for players to go into either siege tank production and/or thor production slightly later so they are safer.
In wings of liberty there was the problem with mech that you go siege tanks, your opponent gets broodlords because you can put on zero pressure, and suddenly your 200/200 army strength goes to 0/200 because none of your units can shoot up. The same was true if you had lots of thors, no tanks, and your opponent 200/200 roached you to death because of not having splash.
All of those things were highly possible because many times you were making educated guesses on whether to build tanks or thors, depending on if the opponent was going muta or mass roach or mass baneling ling, etc. Not only that, you were forced to play almost 100% defensive mech games with no chance to pressure Zerg's drone count except with hellion suicides.
The warhound fills in that gap allowing you to pressure Zerg drone counts so they can't just make 60-80 drones with no defense except queens. It gives that slight momentum so if you're opponent goes 200/200 roach and you were forced to make tanks, then they suicide and suddenly have 20 broodlords...now in between all of that happening there's a period where warhounds provide an attack possibility making it so the sudden "wow my tank army is worthless vs broods" comes at a slightly later point in the game which is good for the match-up.
That's just some of my thoughts on the warhound right now.
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EPT
