EPT
When analyzing the games from IEM Cologne they could have asked themselfs why mech play was the winning strategy for terrans (mvp, supernova). Tank/bio is so freaking hard to pull off these days. Im dumbfounded.Situation Report: August 31, 2012 by David Kim - Page 16
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
When analyzing the games from IEM Cologne they could have asked themselfs why mech play was the winning strategy for terrans (mvp, supernova). Tank/bio is so freaking hard to pull off these days. Im dumbfounded. | ||
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algorithm0r
Canada486 Posts
Zerg needed the queen buff to deal with the standard kill all your drones and/or contain you to two base play of Terran. Terran QQ'd a lot and struggled after the buff because they relied on the abuse so much but once they adjusted their meta-game balance returned to where it should be. 3 CC is now the new standard and TvZ is becoming more like PvZ as both T and Z try to out pace the macroing Zerg. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On September 01 2012 01:25 Plansix wrote: He did really well for a first time showing on the big stage. We will have to see how much better he does against a stronger player pool, but all and all he did very well. Funny, a friend told me something along the line : "Look at those fucking patch zerg, coming out of nowhere ! Brother of who ? I don't care, look at those fucking creep tumors ! 15 minutes in and still no creep beside the bases ! What a fucking joke." I hate to admit it but he got a very good point  | ||
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
On September 01 2012 02:53 Swords wrote: Arguably though, the Overlord speed buff would've fixed this without making the early game extremely boring. The big problem with hellion openers is zerg players didn't know if there were going to be 4-6 hellions or 10-15 hellions, or a hellion/marauder all in. With the overlord speed buff Zerg players could've actually gone into the terran base and seen if it was a typical hellion expand or something way more dangerous. As a result Zerg wouldn't have been stuck making a sim city and praying only 4-6 hellions showed up. The queen buff + overlord buff made it so Terran can't do any kind of early pressure/denial without risking falling so far behind they essentially just lose the game. As a result Terrans have to be greedy instead, which leads to a giant period of the game where Terran players build 3 OCs and Zerg gets on 3 bases. It's not nearly as fun to watch as Zerg fending off Terran early pressure and then countering/expanding. The fun of TvZ was largely that the match played out on a razor's edge. If you defended poorly you lost lots of drones. If you didn't do enough damage as Terran you'd get baneling busted or you'd be unprepared for incoming mutas and lose tons of scvs. It was back and forth from the first minute. Now it takes anywhere from 6-10 minutes for any actual action to happen in the match. Maybe it's more balanced, but from a spectating point of view the matchup is just a shadow of it's former self. The interesting here is, Artosis said that, pre-Queen buff TvZ was boring to cast, because that nearly every single time the T would be opening reactor hellion and thus the Queen buff was smart, because it promoted more variety in the beginning. I don't know I agree with that though...there's been plenty of games where the T would open reactor hellion, and because of that, they just died to a mass roach push. There was still risk even during the days of pre-Queen buff, if you went with reactor hellion. | ||
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RockIronrod
Australia1369 Posts
"I wish Blizzard would stop rushing to patch everything, it leads to stuff like the rushed Thor nerf, they should give time for the meta game to balance out" Terrans now: "I can't believe they're not patching everything THIS INSTANT, did they not see that match I lost on ladder last week? I don't have the APM to use Ravens, this is ridiculous." That said, I still think they should actually do the/a Raven buff, though not the creep nerf. While I think Terrans are beginning to work out TvZ and the new queens making the latter unneeded, Ravens are still a bit cost/energy-inefficient. While in the end I think winrates will balance out internationally, a small Raven buff will hasten that without being detrimental to balance in the future. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
We feel that at this time, we should give players more opportunities to fully explore the slowly-shifting meta-game before we change the balance of the game. Why didn't you do that before you implemented the queen buff? Blizzard, please avoid micro-managing the balance of the game. Instead, try to use maps to balance to the game, as I think many of us would feel that is a smarter way to adjust balance. The chisel rather than the hammer, if you will. | ||
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Mabukai
6 Posts
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Advantageous
China1350 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On September 01 2012 04:51 algorithm0r wrote: I'm glad they are reverting the suggested changes. I felt they were very knee-jerk. Zerg needed the queen buff to deal with the standard kill all your drones and/or contain you to two base play of Terran. Yep, having proper building placement to prevent Hellions raids and/or making 3 Roaches to fend off said Hellions, get a third and start creep spread was soooo game-breaking that many top Zergs were already doing that. | ||
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xEsteca
United States7 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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Nirel
Israel1526 Posts
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On September 01 2012 01:15 NOOBALOPSE wrote: It takes one action to use a seeker missile, and mech doesn't take APM fyi... Not sure if you remember the guy who literally chooses what to use every action on (GoOdy) Do you actually play SC2? Like have you ever actually played a game? | ||
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artosismermaid
213 Posts
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-Switch-
Canada506 Posts
On September 01 2012 01:09 Shinespark wrote: Great. Thanks a lot, Mvp, for using a strategy that I'll never have the apm to perform. perhaps blizzard will take your apm into account for the next decision haha | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On September 01 2012 04:58 D_K_night wrote: The interesting here is, Artosis said that, pre-Queen buff TvZ was boring to cast, because that nearly every single time the T would be opening reactor hellion and thus the Queen buff was smart, because it promoted more variety in the beginning. So much for the variety then, because a new standard simply replaced Reactor Hellion expands as the main opening. Besides, Protoss opens FFE in most of the PvZ games, isn't it “boring to cast” too? Shouldn't be, because FFE has different follow-ups, just like Reactor Hellions expands had different follow-ups. On September 01 2012 04:58 D_K_night wrote: I don't know I agree with that though...there's been plenty of games where the T would open reactor hellion, and because of that, they just died to a mass roach push. There was still risk even during the days of pre-Queen buff, if you went with reactor hellion. No, Reactor Hellion expands were safe against pretty much everything with proper reaction, unlike current fast expands → Hellions/Banshees builds that have glaring weaknesses to early Baneling busts, 18 or 28 Roach Warren, etc. | ||
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Osteriet
Denmark149 Posts
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Azelja
Japan762 Posts
Read the statement: Back to LoL/HotS Custom/Starbow.. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9448 Posts
On September 01 2012 04:07 Schnullerbacke13 wrote: terrans are still dominating gsl .. the quenn buff caused a minor hick up, now terran is up again http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_4/Up_and_Down see bottom, racial distribution Well I don't think anyone would argue that at the top level TVZ is more than 55% zerg favored. And if its only 52-53% zerg favored it will take a long time before there is a signifcant shift. Especially since I believe there are more top terran players in korea than other races (as terran was imba at release when a lot of B-teamers shifted to sc2). Anyway lets just forget sc2 vanilla. Its obviously broken as terran is a harder race to play than the two others, and blizzard fixes this in HOTS by in a mech version of the maurauder. Now terran can 1a with mech. Good job blizzard. | ||
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