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On August 24 2012 21:38 B.I.G. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 21:31 Lolli92 wrote:On August 24 2012 21:27 xrapture wrote:On August 24 2012 21:22 Neobick wrote:On August 24 2012 21:19 xrapture wrote:On August 24 2012 21:16 Sbrubbles wrote:
Also, a lot of people agree with Kespa now allowing their players to join the Gom tournament "because they're not good enough yet". I think Kespa prohibiting their players from join any tournament is wrong, because it should be the players who should gauge their own skill and, therefore, it should be their decision to join or not a tournament.
Um, no... If you're independent sure. But, if you're on a team I don't think it's too much for them to decide where you represent them. Everyone knew this would happen. Kespa has the players, money, and sponsors. Why on Earth would they play fair with a company so much weaker than them. Just doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. Cause playing fair makes you decent? The goal of any business is to make as much money as possible and to blow out your competition. If that isn't your goal than you're a shitty business. So Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers are the best companies in the world? If you make the customers unhappy (what just happened big time) you won't get more money either. dont mind him, he obviously knows jack shit about business
Na, you're right. Microsoft is the nicest business on the planet!!!
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Kespa really sucks ass. GSL players were allowed to join OSL but Kespa doesnt want to cooperate with GSL.
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On August 24 2012 21:36 Opera wrote:
The main problem is this : "There is no place for several parrallel individual/team leagues in one country."
What would be the value of GSL if there is OSL ? What would be the value of Proleague if there is GSTL ?
KeSPA and ESF have to agree on one individual league and one team league otherwise two things will happen :
- The four leagues continue to exist with two distinct sets of players. Only tournaments like WCS, WCG and maybe foreign events will have players from both federation.
- GOM dies eventually because KeSPA is more established and OGN has more financial power than GOM. ESF teams have to choose between joining KeSPA or disband. Some will join, some won't. The players from disbanded teams will either join foreign teams, KeSPA teams or retire.
Foreign scene dies slowly because KeSPA doesn't care about foreign it and won't send its players abroad for tournaments (officially for scheduling reasons). Doesn't that sound familiar to you ?
Why would there only be room for one individual league? OSL and MSL ran side by side for years.
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On August 24 2012 21:42 bearhug wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 21:16 Fleuria wrote:On August 24 2012 21:05 y0su wrote:On August 24 2012 20:58 Frankon wrote:
Im kind of sick of hearing that ESF isn't Gom. Just look at your favorite player team shirt. There is a GOM patch on every uniform in place reserved for sponsors. You can argue that GOM sponsors GSL teams and there for has a unofficial power in ESF. Its especially visible with this move.
Devil advocate mode on
What does ESF teams gain from this? To be honest i see no gain for them.
By withdrawing from the tournament they:
a) limit their sponsors presence on TV
b) make sponsoring a tournament a "risky" business. That could even backfire for GOM since new sponsor would surerly learn about it.
c) limit the additional earnings of their players.
d) this point is pure speculation into how korean team work - decreses team budget duo to not getting percentage of players winning in OSL.
Oh. And its funny that the letter is sign by Nestea. (of IM).
IM team withdrew some of its players from GOM organised event (WCS Korea) so they could be present at Gameson as a publicity. And of course poach some money from IEM.
About Kespa previous move.
Since right now they are in middle of transition and want to keep their fans (yeah they have them. Just compare the GOM studio and PL studio crowds) its more advantageous to them to do it with their tournaments - so they wouldn't lose fans to gom. Also Code A qualifiers are brutal. Even more than the first round of Code S. Sending their players there now is highly inadvisable bearing the results of WCS Korea qualifiers.... Most of Kespa players needed seeds to ge in.
Kespa didn't say they will never play in GSL. They just stated that they are not ready to play yet.
mode off
To sum it up... Those silly koreans.
If it keeps happening again i wouldn't be surprised if in future to participate in any torunament you would have to sign a legally bound document that would state what you can and can't do, and what kind of penalties you will suffer for withdrawing I agree... I don't know that KeSPA was actually trying to boycott GSL (nor do I know that they weren't). When I heard the announcement that they were not going to participate in Code A qualifiers my first thought was "they must not be ready yet". Now, I have mixed feelings about ESF players pulling out of OSL. If they (players or ESF) felt that KeSPA was playing games I support their move. Well... that's my 2 cents, time to microwave some popcorn. They are ready, gom even apparently were pretty accommodating to the scheduling issues and gave some seeds out to them and they flat out declined, they want to concentrate on the big project and the spl playoffs which when the players want to openly participate in gsl is a questionable move. Like mvp said it took him 2 months to transition to sc2 and 3 months to win a championship, thus denying this whole were not ready yet pretty sure players like roro and rain could easily get top 8/16. You need to relearn math. " 2 months to transition to sc2 and 3 months to win a championship" when? 2010 and Jan 2011, 6 months or less after sc2 is released. Now it's Aug 2012, GSL players have practiced for TWO years straight. Now you say " 2 months of practice is enough for you to catch up with those GSL players, beacause MVP did it (in 2010)"
The standard of quality is higher, playing against these players full on for 2 months your skill level is going to drastically increase, so yes 2/3 months is enough... no matter what you say.
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Did I wake up on bizzaro Earth today? Oh wait it's just tl, where having completely backwards, nonsensical opinions is the norm. How can any fan support this? What is blowing SC2's first big chance to make it on tv supposed to accomplish?
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On August 24 2012 21:37 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 21:28 Cubu wrote:
but wait, isnt kespa and osl 2 different entities? so that would mean esf screwed over someone innocent? ESF screwed over any of their players who wanted to participate in the OSL. Right now they're no better than Kespa and being used as pawns. I guess it's time to boycott all korean sc2?
Do you know how to read? The ESF contacted EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in the OSL and asked them if they were okay with this. They unanimously supported the decision. Notice how the statement was made by Nestea as well.
Do you really think Kespa went through the same process? ESF is a PLAYERS association, Kespa is NOT.
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On August 24 2012 21:37 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 21:28 Cubu wrote:
but wait, isnt kespa and osl 2 different entities? so that would mean esf screwed over someone innocent? ESF screwed over any of their players who wanted to participate in the OSL. Right now they're no better than Kespa and being used as pawns. I guess it's time to boycott all korean sc2?
Except in this case the players were actually part of the decision.
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You wish kespa didn't switch over to SC2 now, don't you?
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Hopefully when I wake up, Blizzards statement will have already been released.
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On August 24 2012 21:46 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 21:36 Opera wrote:
The main problem is this : "There is no place for several parrallel individual/team leagues in one country."
What would be the value of GSL if there is OSL ? What would be the value of Proleague if there is GSTL ?
KeSPA and ESF have to agree on one individual league and one team league otherwise two things will happen :
- The four leagues continue to exist with two distinct sets of players. Only tournaments like WCS, WCG and maybe foreign events will have players from both federation.
- GOM dies eventually because KeSPA is more established and OGN has more financial power than GOM. ESF teams have to choose between joining KeSPA or disband. Some will join, some won't. The players from disbanded teams will either join foreign teams, KeSPA teams or retire.
Foreign scene dies slowly because KeSPA doesn't care about foreign it and won't send its players abroad for tournaments (officially for scheduling reasons). Doesn't that sound familiar to you ? Why would there only be room for one individual league? OSL and MSL ran side by side for years.
But MBC was also connected to Kespa were they not?
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On August 24 2012 21:46 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 21:36 Opera wrote:
The main problem is this : "There is no place for several parrallel individual/team leagues in one country."
What would be the value of GSL if there is OSL ? What would be the value of Proleague if there is GSTL ?
KeSPA and ESF have to agree on one individual league and one team league otherwise two things will happen :
- The four leagues continue to exist with two distinct sets of players. Only tournaments like WCS, WCG and maybe foreign events will have players from both federation.
- GOM dies eventually because KeSPA is more established and OGN has more financial power than GOM. ESF teams have to choose between joining KeSPA or disband. Some will join, some won't. The players from disbanded teams will either join foreign teams, KeSPA teams or retire.
Foreign scene dies slowly because KeSPA doesn't care about foreign it and won't send its players abroad for tournaments (officially for scheduling reasons). Doesn't that sound familiar to you ? Why would there only be room for one individual league? OSL and MSL ran side by side for years.
Fair point. But both featured the same set of players.
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On August 24 2012 21:30 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 21:28 Cubu wrote:
but wait, isnt kespa and osl 2 different entities? so that would mean esf screwed over someone innocent? OGN sits on the board of directors of Kespa AFAIK.
It's not that OGN directly sits there, afaik. But someone representing CJ Entus team sits there. And guess who owns OGN..? That's right, CJ Group.
On August 24 2012 21:46 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 21:36 Opera wrote:
The main problem is this : "There is no place for several parrallel individual/team leagues in one country."
What would be the value of GSL if there is OSL ? What would be the value of Proleague if there is GSTL ?
KeSPA and ESF have to agree on one individual league and one team league otherwise two things will happen :
- The four leagues continue to exist with two distinct sets of players. Only tournaments like WCS, WCG and maybe foreign events will have players from both federation.
- GOM dies eventually because KeSPA is more established and OGN has more financial power than GOM. ESF teams have to choose between joining KeSPA or disband. Some will join, some won't. The players from disbanded teams will either join foreign teams, KeSPA teams or retire.
Foreign scene dies slowly because KeSPA doesn't care about foreign it and won't send its players abroad for tournaments (officially for scheduling reasons). Doesn't that sound familiar to you ? Why would there only be room for one individual league? OSL and MSL ran side by side for years.
But they never ran at the same time, did they?
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Hah, finally someone sticking it to the Kespa douchebags.
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On August 24 2012 21:46 BrosephBrostar wrote:
Did I wake up on bizzaro Earth today? Oh wait it's just tl, where having completely backwards, nonsensical opinions is the norm. How can any fan support this? What is blowing SC2's first big chance to make it on tv supposed to accomplish?
The Federation just bending over to KeSPA would accomplish even less. They had to do something.
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Can you give us a loose translation? Otherwise, awesome! Victory for ESL!
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wait, is kespa not sending players to mlg either? bummer didnt they just have ro8 with the best bw pros?
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That's great!
Shows over everyone. Nothing else to see here folks.
Actually on a more serious note - That is great.
It actually prevents embarrassment from KeSPA. They can keep leaning on their "literally everyone" is too busy to participate in GSL this season card, and say they can next season.
(Good PR move KeSPA and kudos to ESF for making it work.)
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EPT
