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ALLEYCAT BLUES50107 Posts
On August 24 2012 19:40 Wayne123 wrote:
I got a question:
Starcraft 2 is Blizzard´s interllectual property, right? So they could say to anyone:
"You can´t broadcast our game we won´t allow that and if you do so you break the law and we will sue you."
Is that correct?
yes and if it does go to court blizzard will win this time...and this time I wouldn't mind if they did.
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On August 24 2012 18:55 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 18:55 Dodgin wrote:On August 24 2012 18:53 Djagulingu wrote:On August 24 2012 18:45 Tantaburs wrote:
People keep saying that KeSPA has the money and power to shut down GOM need to remember that GOm has a very good relantionship with Blizzard and KeSPA doesn't. If Blizzard pulls KeSPA's broadcasting license then they can't broadcast SC2. Do some research and tell me when KeSPA actually gave a fuck to what Blizzard thinks or who Blizzard gives broadcasting rights to. KeSPA has the support of Korean government (it's unreasonable to think otherwise, without that how could KeSPA take on Blizzard this well?), GOM does not. KeSPA can make an OSL just as good without ESF players. Hell, even GOM can make a GSL without KeSPA players. Why can't KeSPA make an OSL without ESF players? How many ESF players played in the previous OSLs? The answer is as you know, zero. All current ESF players that happened to have played in any OSL was a KeSPA player back then, so they don't count. This isn't Brood War, if Blizzard doesn't allow them to broadcast sc2 they can't because Blizzard properly secured the IP rights this time. They can use a hacked LAN version but Blizzard could sue them for that. That would change everything actually. Source?
That would change a lot of things. But GOM can't produce legitimate e-Sports organization if Korean government doesn't want them to. After all, governments make the laws.
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Hmm, I can't disagree with the actions. I like that FXOBoss did note that Gom could have done things better and gave out his understood scenario because of the chain reaction to Kespa. I also totally agree with the assessment, when Kespa pulled out of GSL I basically saw it that Kespa had decided there was no reason to play in the GSL. It's a fine business model for them and their market, neither of which is the sc2 community that has brought us to this point.
Anyway, still hoping it all just gets sorted out. Feels like a lot of things could have been improved on Kespa's side, but probably need to meet partway from the Gom/ESF side also.
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On August 24 2012 19:41 lost_artz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 19:40 Wayne123 wrote:
I got a question:
Starcraft 2 is Blizzard´s interllectual property, right? So they could say to anyone:
"You can´t broadcast our game we won´t allow that and if you do so you break the law and we will sue you."
Is that correct? Yes, so long as they don't have Blizz's permission.
Correct, blizzard can sue them.
If they win on court, is a total different question...
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France9034 Posts
On August 24 2012 19:40 snafoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 19:37 Warlock40 wrote:
What I'm wondering is this: why are the ESF teams so loyal to GSL? Sure, it was their big break, and they enjoyed a lot of attention the last two years, but do they really value this relationship with GOM over the pure selfish value of jumping ship?
I mean, surely it would be strictly in their interest if the ESF teams all abandoned the GSL and instead participated only in the OSL, which would then become the centrepiece for SC2. So why have they instead decided to leave OSL and stick with GSL? Surely it has to be more than loyalty and friendship.
But if it really is out of pure loyalty, then I would think that the ESF teams are to be commended, even if it turns out that, in the long run, this is a bad move for the SC2 scene in general. Alot of people seem to think this is all a loyalty play. I'm sure that might be some of it, but I think that the eSF players saw that they can potentially force a change in KeSPA for the first time in their careers - remember that all of these players have years of experience being under KeSPA so know alot more about what the players go through then people on TL.
GOM being very supportive must also be a reason of this loyalty. And being left alone with Kespa in this jungle must be pretty scary...
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Did MC say anything yet? Would be even more funny if MC is the only non Kespa player to stay in, cause then they have 9 Players. What format do you do with 9 players? lol. And MC would win that shit for sure.
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On August 24 2012 19:39 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 19:37 Warlock40 wrote:
What I'm wondering is this: why are the ESF teams so loyal to GSL? Sure, it was their big break, and they enjoyed a lot of attention the last two years, but do they really value this relationship with GOM over the pure selfish value of jumping ship?
I mean, surely it would be strictly in their interest if the ESF teams all abandoned the GSL and instead participated only in the OSL, which would then become the centrepiece for SC2. So why have they instead decided to leave OSL and stick with GSL? Surely it has to be more than loyalty and friendship.
But if it really is out of pure loyalty, then I would think that the ESF teams are to be commended, even if it turns out that, in the long run, this is a bad move for the SC2 scene in general. There's only value in jumping ship if you can't see further than the tip of your nose. It should be obvious that if GOM dies, esf teams are impacted negatively.
They would suffer from losing the steady support that the GSL provides, but wouldn't they be able to turn it around by just dominating everything KeSPA teams are in, such as the OSL? Or are you suggesting that if there is no more GSL, most if not all ESF teams will collapse, with KeSPA teams taking the best and leaving the rest, because KeSPA teams are so well organised? I suppose that is something to consider... but I have no actual knowledge on the subject, which is why I really hope someone could elaborate.
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On August 24 2012 19:37 Fleuria wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 19:34 Qeet wrote:
well, this little sc2 adventure will soon be over problem is kespa can't go back to brood war anyway as they don't hold the licence and blizzard can just take them to court and ruin them like they were going to last time before they decided to switch and agree to all this that now they have gone back on.
You guys need to keep this in mind. I'm pretty damn sure that KESPA never had a license for BroodWar and they still ran the show. Blizzard had nothing to do with that and actually as far as SC2 has gone Blizzard really shouldn't be involved with it either lol. Even their patching is dumb, can't even handle determining if something actually needs to be patched, but they want to control the ESPORT part of their game.
On August 24 2012 19:42 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 19:40 Wayne123 wrote:
I got a question:
Starcraft 2 is Blizzard´s interllectual property, right? So they could say to anyone:
"You can´t broadcast our game we won´t allow that and if you do so you break the law and we will sue you."
Is that correct? yes and if it does go to court blizzard will win this time...and this time I wouldn't mind if they did.
Could they win? IP rights are not that clear. If I design a web page with Dream Weaver does Dream Weaver own my website? This is sort-of what Blizzard is arguing. They make the engine and despite doing to work after the original creation of the game they own everything that is produced for and from the game.
Blizzard probably won't win that argument in Korea, shit, they might not even win it in the US.
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On August 24 2012 19:41 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 19:39 ShadeR wrote:On August 24 2012 19:32 FataLe wrote:On August 24 2012 19:30 ShadeR wrote:On August 24 2012 19:27 FataLe wrote:On August 24 2012 19:25 leveller wrote:On August 24 2012 19:14 FataLe wrote:
What happens if all the Kespa players just decide to say fuck it and leave kespa? I'm sure the teams will still support them and i'm not sure kespa would pursue legal action vs that many people. the "teams" ARE kespa. ? no, there's got to be a hierarchy. kespa players were fed up with kespa long before this, meaning if they had any power they would have done something. but they didn't = no power. You seem to not understand what it means to be a part of a professional team... yea i don't think i do. Then what is up with you posting all this junk? On August 24 2012 19:14 FataLe wrote:
What happens if all the Kespa players just decide to say fuck it and leave kespa? I'm sure the teams will still support them and i'm not sure kespa would pursue legal action vs that many people. On August 24 2012 19:32 FataLe wrote:On August 24 2012 19:31 Chenz wrote:On August 24 2012 19:27 FataLe wrote:On August 24 2012 19:25 leveller wrote:On August 24 2012 19:14 FataLe wrote:
What happens if all the Kespa players just decide to say fuck it and leave kespa? I'm sure the teams will still support them and i'm not sure kespa would pursue legal action vs that many people. the "teams" ARE kespa. ? no, there's got to be a hierarchy. kespa players were fed up with kespa long before this, meaning if they had any power they would have done something. but they didn't = no power. AFAIK KeSPA are the sponsors. Essentially, Samsung and the Korean telecom companies are trying to kill the competition. I know what brand my next phone wont be. okay if the sponsors are running the show that really sucks. they're pretty screwed imo. they're my thoughts and opinions. wow stop being so aggressive.
I'll apologise for being hostile then, this thread has just been the most disgusting cesspool of misinformation.
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On August 24 2012 19:40 Wayne123 wrote:
I got a question:
Starcraft 2 is Blizzard´s interllectual property, right? So they could say to anyone:
"You can´t broadcast our game we won´t allow that and if you do so you break the law and we will sue you."
Is that correct?
Tournament organizers (at the GSL/OSL scale anyway) have a contract with Blizzard regarding broadcasting rights. It depends on the terms of that contract whether Blizzard can pull the plug at their own leisure or not.
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First of all I think this is a proper response for kespa's bullshit move. On the other hand I am getting sick of the power games that goes on in korean starcraft. Is this the best model for esports? NO! fuck kespa
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France9034 Posts
On August 24 2012 19:43 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 19:37 Fleuria wrote:On August 24 2012 19:34 Qeet wrote:
well, this little sc2 adventure will soon be over problem is kespa can't go back to brood war anyway as they don't hold the licence and blizzard can just take them to court and ruin them like they were going to last time before they decided to switch and agree to all this that now they have gone back on. You guys need to keep this in mind. I'm pretty damn sure that KESPA never had a license for BroodWar and they still ran the show. Blizzard had nothing to do with that and actually as far as SC2 has gone Blizzard really shouldn't be involved with it either lol. Even their patching is dumb, can't even handle determining if something actually needs to be patched, but they want to control the ESPORT part of their game.
Pretty sure they didn't have one too...
This ran completely out of legal bounds, former-Blizzard tolerating it iirc.
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On August 24 2012 19:41 lost_artz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 19:40 Wayne123 wrote:
I got a question:
Starcraft 2 is Blizzard´s interllectual property, right? So they could say to anyone:
"You can´t broadcast our game we won´t allow that and if you do so you break the law and we will sue you."
Is that correct? Yes, so long as they don't have Blizz's permission.
So the most powerful party in this situation would be Blizzard. They are the ones who decide who´s allowed to continue to host SC2 tournaments. I wonder what Blizzard will do.
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On August 24 2012 19:43 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 19:41 FataLe wrote:On August 24 2012 19:39 ShadeR wrote:On August 24 2012 19:32 FataLe wrote:On August 24 2012 19:30 ShadeR wrote:On August 24 2012 19:27 FataLe wrote:On August 24 2012 19:25 leveller wrote:On August 24 2012 19:14 FataLe wrote:
What happens if all the Kespa players just decide to say fuck it and leave kespa? I'm sure the teams will still support them and i'm not sure kespa would pursue legal action vs that many people. the "teams" ARE kespa. ? no, there's got to be a hierarchy. kespa players were fed up with kespa long before this, meaning if they had any power they would have done something. but they didn't = no power. You seem to not understand what it means to be a part of a professional team... yea i don't think i do. Then what is up with you posting all this junk? On August 24 2012 19:14 FataLe wrote:
What happens if all the Kespa players just decide to say fuck it and leave kespa? I'm sure the teams will still support them and i'm not sure kespa would pursue legal action vs that many people. On August 24 2012 19:32 FataLe wrote:On August 24 2012 19:31 Chenz wrote:On August 24 2012 19:27 FataLe wrote:On August 24 2012 19:25 leveller wrote:On August 24 2012 19:14 FataLe wrote:
What happens if all the Kespa players just decide to say fuck it and leave kespa? I'm sure the teams will still support them and i'm not sure kespa would pursue legal action vs that many people. the "teams" ARE kespa. ? no, there's got to be a hierarchy. kespa players were fed up with kespa long before this, meaning if they had any power they would have done something. but they didn't = no power. AFAIK KeSPA are the sponsors. Essentially, Samsung and the Korean telecom companies are trying to kill the competition. I know what brand my next phone wont be. okay if the sponsors are running the show that really sucks. they're pretty screwed imo. they're my thoughts and opinions. wow stop being so aggressive. I'll apologise for being hostile then, this thread has just been the most disgusting cesspool of misinformation.
haha no doubt such a depressing situation regardless
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On August 24 2012 19:43 Lolli92 wrote:
Did MC say anything yet? Would be even more funny if MC is the only non Kespa player to stay in, cause then they have 9 Players. What format do you do with 9 players? lol. And MC would win that shit for sure.
MC isn't playing in OSL.
Pretty sure I saw someone say that earlier in the thread.
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ESF has a big case of... "StikittodahMon" disease. I know KeSPA made E-Sports progress and what not, but they're being kind of selfish. Nobody ever thinks of the children. 
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I just hope the KeSPA players start to speak up and form their own players union, much like Stork, Boxer and many others expressed they really need. The KeSPA players deserve to have a voice in what they do. They're employees, not slaves.
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On August 24 2012 17:56 Integra wrote:and to add to that; what exactly was the point with the earlier meeting between Kespa, Blizzard and the none korean Kespa teams? It's obvious now that it just was some kind of PR and no one really meant a fucking thing about what was said.
Yeah .
Hopefully KeSPA lets their players play in the GSL after seeing this.
Again, they can't pull the "busy schedule card" because KeSPA has tons of players that aren't doing anything (like B-teamers with potential).
This could get really bad.
TBH I can see KeSPA being a bit embarrassed by this. So, this could mean two things:
1. KeSPA has to swallow their KeSPAness and give in (lets their players play). IMO KeSPA should do this, people will look over it quickly. Also win-win for everyone.
2. KeSPA keeps being KeSPA and eSports drama continues on with Blizzard potentially having to take action.
I'm sad that this has to come to this.
Just a week ago, it seemed like KeSPA was playing nice for once and all was good with the eSports world. I was an avid KeSPA defender (always trying to defend all their actions) but forbidding players from the GSL made no longer a supporter of KeSPA.
However, now this has happened, things have been a bit tainted. Hopefully KeSPA can give in.
I'm sad that they couldn't change their ways on their own (they need eSports Federation "and" Blizzard to force them to?).
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thats the only logical response
fuck kespa
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Fighting fire with fire, such a brilliant idea. OGN will likely just replace the esf players in the OSL with other Kespa players. This won't change anything. Esf players will get more sour reactions from Korean fans, because the string pullers want to try and prove a point. Lovely over reaction by the ESF.
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EPT
