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On August 23 2012 19:52 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 19:06 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 23 2012 19:04 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 18:59 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 23 2012 18:55 Talin wrote:
That seems like a really dodgy press release with a dodgy tone. It's almost as if GOM is intentionally trying to stir up anger/pressure at Kespa. Oh wait, that's exactly what it is.
As for kespa making the decision, people need to understand that this is perfectly normal. Most importantly, a Kespa decision means that it's a joint team decision.
While I'm sure that there are individual players who would like to compete in the GSL, their time and effort playing Starcraft is committed entirely to their teams. And these are not western teams that are more like proxy sponsors than anything else - there is a fixed structure in how the players train, how much they train and what they train for. They don't get to just do whatever they feel like with their time.
In a nutshell, the teams decide what they want to get involved in (which was the case here). The actual players and coaching staff are only members of the team, they're not individual entities. So what you are saying is because already 32 players of all the teams together participate in the OSL, the other remaining players do not get to participate in any participate in any individual league at all? Sounds legit. All irony aside, whoever made the decision does not make the decision better for the players. I have NO idea what you're saying you're thinking I'm saying as that sentence doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. -_- The remaining players spend their time preparing for Proleague and being practice partners for players who are in the OSL, then preparing for the next qualifiers etc. There is plenty for them to do with their time, if that was your concern. I just think that it is disgusting that their teams prohibit them from participating in an individual league. If they don't want to participate, then they don't have to. But at least allow the players who want to participate to do what they want. These teams function like teams. Players can't just go play whatever tournament they feel like, because by doing that, they would be spending TIME preparing for and playing in that tournament. The TIME that they're being PAID to spend differently - they're being paid to be team members and train and play for their team. That is their job. They don't get to do whatever they want on their job during work hours, nobody does. There is nothing disgusting about that, it's perfectly natural, and it's how actual sports teams function everywhere. Everywhere. The problem here is that a lot of people are applying the western esports "team" logic to these teams and are then confounded by how the Kespa teams don't fit into that same frame. But these organizations are fundamentally different in every single way. Kespa teams are sports teams. Western teams (and GOM teams in the last year and a half) are merely marketing companies and (relative to players) some weird cross between an agency and a sponsor. A player's job on a western team is to bring exposure to the team and its sponsors. A player's job on a Kespa team is to listen to his coaches, follow the training regimen and prepare for games he's told to prepare for. Some teams have a more loose structure than the others, but obviously no team will let their players do whatever they want and play in any league they want and still pay them salaries.
No, I do find it disgusting if a team prohibits a player from participating in an individual event, just because he is a practise partner of somebody who participates another individual event. I have no problem with listening to his coaches, following the training regimen and prepare for the games he's told to prepare for, as long as the players have games to prepare for. But what happens now is that the coaches sacrifice the potential individual career of some players just so that they can concentrate on improving another player. In my opinion, a coach should care for all players on his team equally and not pull something like that.
Besides, it's not as if all players of a team suddenly qualify and there are no training partners left. If the Kespa teams are as big as I heard they are, with A-team and B-team, there will always be enough training partners left.
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On August 23 2012 20:15 TheAmazombie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:14 TrainSamurai wrote:
I can't believe you sc2 fans. If GOM wants Flash to play in thier shitty league then they should cough up some dough for the KeSPA salaries. Same for every qualifier. Uh, the point is that Flash should be able to play where he wants without KeSPa telling him where he has to play. Also, it is not a shitty league, whether you like it or not, they have done a lot for the scene and the fans.
He is a troll, treat him as such. Don't fall for his flamebaiting
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On August 23 2012 20:17 Fluffboll wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:15 TheAmazombie wrote:On August 23 2012 20:14 TrainSamurai wrote:
I can't believe you sc2 fans. If GOM wants Flash to play in thier shitty league then they should cough up some dough for the KeSPA salaries. Same for every qualifier. Uh, the point is that Flash should be able to play where he wants without KeSPa telling him where he has to play. Also, it is not a shitty league, whether you like it or not, they have done a lot for the scene and the fans. He is a troll, treat him as such. Don't fall for his flamebaiting
That is true, but I felt it wrong to not stand up for GOM.
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On August 23 2012 20:17 Fluffboll wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:15 TheAmazombie wrote:On August 23 2012 20:14 TrainSamurai wrote:
I can't believe you sc2 fans. If GOM wants Flash to play in thier shitty league then they should cough up some dough for the KeSPA salaries. Same for every qualifier. Uh, the point is that Flash should be able to play where he wants without KeSPa telling him where he has to play. Also, it is not a shitty league, whether you like it or not, they have done a lot for the scene and the fans. He is a troll, treat him as such. Don't fall for his flamebaiting
Thats a cop out. Flash gets paid to practice sc2. GOM can't just use him to promote thier stupid league without paying up for some of his salary. If flash relaly wants to play in GOM he can leave KESPA any time he freakin wants.
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do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
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Maybe the kespa teams want their players to take some time and focus more on training so they catch up faster.
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On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
It's grounds for anti-trust in any other country.
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On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY.
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Would be so awesome if the GOM teams would unanimously retract from OSL. Fuck you Kespa, SC2 was doing well enough without your selfish ass.
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On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY.
Er, they get paid for participating in GSL. Does that not count? Every single player in each GSL season gets paid.
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so the GSL players play vs the kespa ones in their leages, but kespa does not want to send the kespa players to GSL.
fuck kespa i say
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On August 23 2012 20:17 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 19:52 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 19:06 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 23 2012 19:04 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 18:59 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 23 2012 18:55 Talin wrote:
That seems like a really dodgy press release with a dodgy tone. It's almost as if GOM is intentionally trying to stir up anger/pressure at Kespa. Oh wait, that's exactly what it is.
As for kespa making the decision, people need to understand that this is perfectly normal. Most importantly, a Kespa decision means that it's a joint team decision.
While I'm sure that there are individual players who would like to compete in the GSL, their time and effort playing Starcraft is committed entirely to their teams. And these are not western teams that are more like proxy sponsors than anything else - there is a fixed structure in how the players train, how much they train and what they train for. They don't get to just do whatever they feel like with their time.
In a nutshell, the teams decide what they want to get involved in (which was the case here). The actual players and coaching staff are only members of the team, they're not individual entities. So what you are saying is because already 32 players of all the teams together participate in the OSL, the other remaining players do not get to participate in any participate in any individual league at all? Sounds legit. All irony aside, whoever made the decision does not make the decision better for the players. I have NO idea what you're saying you're thinking I'm saying as that sentence doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. -_- The remaining players spend their time preparing for Proleague and being practice partners for players who are in the OSL, then preparing for the next qualifiers etc. There is plenty for them to do with their time, if that was your concern. I just think that it is disgusting that their teams prohibit them from participating in an individual league. If they don't want to participate, then they don't have to. But at least allow the players who want to participate to do what they want. These teams function like teams. Players can't just go play whatever tournament they feel like, because by doing that, they would be spending TIME preparing for and playing in that tournament. The TIME that they're being PAID to spend differently - they're being paid to be team members and train and play for their team. That is their job. They don't get to do whatever they want on their job during work hours, nobody does. There is nothing disgusting about that, it's perfectly natural, and it's how actual sports teams function everywhere. Everywhere. The problem here is that a lot of people are applying the western esports "team" logic to these teams and are then confounded by how the Kespa teams don't fit into that same frame. But these organizations are fundamentally different in every single way. Kespa teams are sports teams. Western teams (and GOM teams in the last year and a half) are merely marketing companies and (relative to players) some weird cross between an agency and a sponsor. A player's job on a western team is to bring exposure to the team and its sponsors. A player's job on a Kespa team is to listen to his coaches, follow the training regimen and prepare for games he's told to prepare for. Some teams have a more loose structure than the others, but obviously no team will let their players do whatever they want and play in any league they want and still pay them salaries. No, I do find it disgusting if a team prohibits a player from participating in an individual event, just because he is a practise partner of somebody who participates another individual event. I have no problem with listening to his coaches, following the training regimen and prepare for the games he's told to prepare for, as long as the players have games to prepare for. But what happens now is that the coaches sacrifice the potential individual career of some players just so that they can concentrate on improving another player. In my opinion, a coach should care for all players on his team equally and not pull something like that. Besides, it's not as if all players of a team suddenly qualify and there are no training partners left. If the Kespa teams are as big as I heard they are, with A-team and B-team, there will always be enough training partners left.
What he doesn't realize is that these tournaments the players are going to are BIG tournaments and when their players go they are playing for their team still and repping all of their sponsors in great ways. Look at the LG sponsorship of IM and how their top players went to IEM the other week and won. That is a lot of sponsor time. The older Korean teams might not have international sponsors as much so perhaps it is less of a deal for them but going to a tournament in SC2 is not abandoning your team. It simply means repping them in a different way.
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On August 23 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. Er, they get paid for participating in GSL. Does that not count? Every single player in each GSL season gets paid.
Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING.
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On August 23 2012 20:15 TheAmazombie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:14 TrainSamurai wrote:
I can't believe you sc2 fans. If GOM wants Flash to play in thier shitty league then they should cough up some dough for the KeSPA salaries. Same for every qualifier. Uh, the point is that Flash should be able to play where he wants without KeSPa telling him where he has to play.
Yeah, and I'll tell my employer where and when I feel like working; contracts be damned. My boss is not the boss of me!
Also, it is not a shitty league, whether you like it or not, they have done a lot for the scene and the fans.
If you really want to compare GOM's contribution to Starcraft against KESPA's...
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id rather see kespa players be completely ready then getting rolled over
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51392 Posts
I don't know why KeSPA backed out, but I want Blizzard to back the fuck out of it.
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On August 23 2012 20:23 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. Er, they get paid for participating in GSL. Does that not count? Every single player in each GSL season gets paid. Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING.
I don't think you understand...
KeSPA owns the teams. GOM only manages the league, they don't own the teams or the players.
How hard is it to understand?...
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On August 23 2012 20:23 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. Er, they get paid for participating in GSL. Does that not count? Every single player in each GSL season gets paid. Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING.
GOM is just a tournament organizer though, it's not up to them to give players salary. That's what the teams are for.
If you're talking about an appearance fee to play in GSL then that's a lot different than salary. Maybe Flash does deserve an appearance fee but as far as I know WCG never paid him to be in WCG and he did that willingly.
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This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison.
On August 23 2012 20:25 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:23 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. Er, they get paid for participating in GSL. Does that not count? Every single player in each GSL season gets paid. Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING. GOM is just a tournament organizer though, it's not up to them to give players salary. That's what the teams are for. If you're talking about an appearance fee to play in GSL then that's a lot different than salary. Maybe Flash does deserve an appearance fee but as far as I know WCG never paid him to be in WCG and he did that willingly.
BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees.
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On August 23 2012 20:24 WightyCity wrote:
id rather see kespa players be completely ready then getting rolled over The cynical part of me would like to see that during mid OSL finals, Blizz suddenly handed out a big ban-wave on "cheaters" so it gets broadcasted to the whole country.
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EPT
