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On July 26 2012 05:15 Grumbels wrote:
If you want to investigate something else, can you discover if there is a pattern as to which of the starting workers would count as 'older'? It would be funny if it would become correct play to keep an eye on your 'oldest' worker and use that one to scout. After all, if you're playing a mirror and you're attack-moving your worker and your opponent isn't aware of this trick, you are ensured a worker kill if he engages you like this.
From what the OP is saying, I don't think you want your oldest one to go scout. You want your newest one.
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wtf, thats quite a discovery!
would like to see a statment from blizz on that...
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On July 26 2012 05:18 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 05:15 Grumbels wrote:
If you want to investigate something else, can you discover if there is a pattern as to which of the starting workers would count as 'older'? It would be funny if it would become correct play to keep an eye on your 'oldest' worker and use that one to scout. After all, if you're playing a mirror and you're attack-moving your worker and your opponent isn't aware of this trick, you are ensured a worker kill if he engages you like this. From what the OP is saying, I don't think you want your oldest one to go scout. You want your newest one.
Sorry, I misread it as the oldest unit winning, because that makes more sense imo. Since I figured the game might have a list of units, add newly created units to the end of the list and then remove killed units from the list before they have a chance to fire themselves. (as feedback is instant, like tank volleys)
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From a programmer pov its not that complicated. The game must work like this. Every unit created gets a unique ID. When the game loop is going over all units in a frame to check their actions. this unit loop its sorted by ID (Game case the list is reversed as in every new unit is inserted at the front the list)
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New units are obviously first in the update cycle, so their commands are processed before older units. I would assume this affects all units where the interaction is extremely close. Really interesting.
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I was reading this but the ad for Snorg Tees distracted me from my thoughts.
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What if they are exactly the same age?
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On July 26 2012 05:28 sLiMpoweR wrote:
What if they are exactly the same age?
The universe explodes?
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And it DOES work for Ghosts vs High Templars! The younger one casts the spell faster!
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On July 26 2012 05:28 sLiMpoweR wrote:
What if they are exactly the same age?
I don't think they can be - assuming the system uses some sort of ID for timestamp.
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On July 26 2012 05:30 Yegwen wrote:
And it DOES work for Ghosts vs High Templars! The younger one casts the spell faster!
That's so strange because the ghost snipe has a bigger range ?!
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In any case, an application for this is: if you warp in a high templar you know it can win any immediate feedback face-offs.
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United States3612 Posts
On July 26 2012 05:26 herbie wrote:
New units are obviously first in the update cycle, so their commands are processed before older units. I would assume this affects all units where the interaction is extremely close. Really interesting.
This analysis sounds about right to me. One way to fix this issue would be to randomize which unit commands are processed first. However, that might introduce performance issues... it's possible they have the order in which commands are processed streamlined in some way to optimize performance, so actually in reality it might be more complicated than just which unit is newer.
On July 26 2012 05:32 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 05:30 Yegwen wrote:
And it DOES work for Ghosts vs High Templars! The younger one casts the spell faster! That's so strange because the ghost snipe has a bigger range ?!
Yes but there's a significant pause before the ghosts actually snipes during its animation while the feedback is near instant.
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On July 26 2012 05:32 Grumbels wrote:
In any case, an application for this is: if you warp in a high templar you know it can win any immediate feedback face-offs.
Yeah like that happens often in PvPs....
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On July 26 2012 05:28 sLiMpoweR wrote:
What if they are exactly the same age?
All that matters is the order they are placed onto the collection in memory, they cannot be placed in the same index, therefore one will always be created before the other.
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very interesting, i always thought it was random
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On July 26 2012 05:33 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 05:26 herbie wrote:
New units are obviously first in the update cycle, so their commands are processed before older units. I would assume this affects all units where the interaction is extremely close. Really interesting. This analysis sounds about right to me. One way to fix this issue would be to randomize which unit commands are processed first. However, that might introduce performance issues... it's possible they have the order in which commands are processed streamlined in some way to optimize performance, so actually in reality it might be more complicated than just which unit is newer. Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 05:32 graNite wrote:On July 26 2012 05:30 Yegwen wrote:
And it DOES work for Ghosts vs High Templars! The younger one casts the spell faster! That's so strange because the ghost snipe has a bigger range ?! Yes but there's a significant pause before the ghosts actually snipes during its animation while the feedback is near instant.
The answer is the same as to how they mask this "problem" with attacks: add a random min/max delay to spellcasts.
On July 26 2012 05:36 bgx wrote:
on a more serious note im more interested in those marines, zerglings, workers....
Attacks have a min/max delay that minimizes (one might say it eliminates) the update order advantage.
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On July 26 2012 05:34 Ghoststrikes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 05:32 Grumbels wrote:
In any case, an application for this is: if you warp in a high templar you know it can win any immediate feedback face-offs. Yeah like that happens often in PvPs....
thank god PvP never reached templar metagame otherwise we would have to scrap all the templar vs templar games :p
on a more serious note im more interested in those marines, zerglings, workers....
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i want to see feedback vs battlecruiser, because they have the same range
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Well then, I guess it's slightly better to save older unit than newer, if it's the only distinction ^^.
Fun fact, though I don't see it impacting the game much. Maybe it's better to go scouting with first worker, but besides that, idk.
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EPT
