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Who cares! I can't believe someone is paying to get a Account into GM. Then what? Either don't play and get out of GM or play and get your Ass kicked. Even at a Pro-Level no one cares about the Ladder - the only thing that madders is you own skill-level.
Some people are just completly retarded!
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On July 17 2012 12:08 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not just account sharing in general. I should actually note in the OP that it violates both the SC2 EULA and the Battle.Net TOU. 2(B) of the TOU states:
"You agree that you will not, under any circumstances exploit the Service, a Game or any part thereof for any commercial purpose, including without limitation...perform in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling."
But to your point of no enforcement. Lack of enforcement does not justify a wrong.
Lack of enforcement is because it's a ridiculous rule. They paid for their account. Let them do whatever the fuck they want to do with it.
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On July 17 2012 07:37 Uracil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 07:07 Euronyme wrote:On July 17 2012 05:18 iAmJeffReY wrote:
I'm trying to avoid the rage out, but seriously, why does it matter. It's an icon. If your MMR is high enough, even at high masters you're considered GM. It's not a big deal.
I level names all the time for anyone that asks me to do it. I find it amazingly fun to just troll and try out new strats. There's no harm it in, what so ever.
The real question is why are you so butthurt that you made this thread? What happened to make you so angry to type out that thesis paper?
I don't understand the witch hunt over people leveling names. Nothing is really based off ladder, at all. So what, you didn't get GM this season because of people having leveled names. I think there are a bit too many white knights that care way too much about a video game ladder. It's a game, it's for fun. If someone wants to pay to have an icon, let them do it. It's probably really fun to the pros to actually have FUN and fuck around and troll people, and not be a try hard 24/7.
Hacking? That's a real issue. Account sharing, or leveling, I don't see a problem with it. Since ladder doesn't mean anything, and rank 1, and rank 99 are all the same -- no name nobodies nine times out of ten. That's actually BS. First of all. The ladder gets you invites to tournaments. Recently there was a hacker invited to Blizzard World Cup or whatever it was called, because he had high enough ladder rank. Yeah we're nerds who care about a video gamer ladder. We post on a fucking video game forum - of course we care about the ladder. This is exactly as bad as hacking, as it gets silver leaguers invites to Blizzard events. Why would you care about hackers but not account sharing? They result in the exact same things: Deligitimizing the ladder and getting the wrong people invited to big tournaments. I don't have no sympathy for a tournament organizer who is stupid enough to use the ladder as tool for invites. Do proper qualifiers and you will get the better players to your tournament.
Blizzard will used their ladder because... It's their ladder.
They want to promote the game and give incentive for pros to play in the public ladder.
They don't care whether the players are 'better' or not. They make the tournaments to get publicity and more people to buy their games.
Has blizzard ever had proper qualifiers? They'd had to set up some kind of huge lan for that, and that doesn't seem to be in their interest. They want an on stage performance and winner.
On July 17 2012 07:52 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 07:07 Euronyme wrote:On July 17 2012 05:18 iAmJeffReY wrote:
I'm trying to avoid the rage out, but seriously, why does it matter. It's an icon. If your MMR is high enough, even at high masters you're considered GM. It's not a big deal.
I level names all the time for anyone that asks me to do it. I find it amazingly fun to just troll and try out new strats. There's no harm it in, what so ever.
The real question is why are you so butthurt that you made this thread? What happened to make you so angry to type out that thesis paper?
I don't understand the witch hunt over people leveling names. Nothing is really based off ladder, at all. So what, you didn't get GM this season because of people having leveled names. I think there are a bit too many white knights that care way too much about a video game ladder. It's a game, it's for fun. If someone wants to pay to have an icon, let them do it. It's probably really fun to the pros to actually have FUN and fuck around and troll people, and not be a try hard 24/7.
Hacking? That's a real issue. Account sharing, or leveling, I don't see a problem with it. Since ladder doesn't mean anything, and rank 1, and rank 99 are all the same -- no name nobodies nine times out of ten. That's actually BS. First of all. The ladder gets you invites to tournaments. Recently there was a hacker invited to Blizzard World Cup or whatever it was called, because he had high enough ladder rank. Yeah we're nerds who care about a video gamer ladder. We post on a fucking video game forum - of course we care about the ladder. This is exactly as bad as hacking, as it gets silver leaguers invites to Blizzard events. Why would you care about hackers but not account sharing? They result in the exact same things: Deligitimizing the ladder and getting the wrong people invited to big tournaments. That's just Blizzard being stupid as hell (as well as notoriously arbitrary with their invites - remember the Blizzcon roulette each year?). Any real tournament uses qualifiers. This could be a problem if people did this kind of thing in qualifiers, but it's really impractical for a variety of reasons, and also relatively easy to detect. And honestly, you have to be really fucking intentionally obtuse in order not to see the difference between this and hacking. Hacking is literally breaking the rules of the game, making it pointless and unfun. This is essentially the same as a pro smurfing, and winning because he's simply that much better than your average Masters player. Would it also be delegitimizing the ladder if Naama bought 20 NA accounts and got them all into GM, just for shits and giggles?
Yeah they're stupid with their invites. Have I somehow implied that it's a system that I would use myself and is optimal?
They still do it, and that's a fact.
You seem to have some severe lack of literacy as you somehow managed to get my post to that hacking and power levling is the exact same thing. I said that the results are the same.
Yes I think smurfing also is delegitimizing the ladder, though not to the same extent, as this actually brings even more problems to the tournament side of things.
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On July 17 2012 12:35 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 12:08 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not just account sharing in general. I should actually note in the OP that it violates both the SC2 EULA and the Battle.Net TOU. 2(B) of the TOU states:
"You agree that you will not, under any circumstances exploit the Service, a Game or any part thereof for any commercial purpose, including without limitation...perform in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling."
But to your point of no enforcement. Lack of enforcement does not justify a wrong. Lack of enforcement is because it's a ridiculous rule. They paid for their account. Let them do whatever the fuck they want to do with it.
They should be able to maphack too?
It's not their own account, technically Blizzard still owns it.
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1019 Posts
This just reflects the financially unstable nature of esports. There just isn't enough money going around. There isn't much going on behind all the glitter that people shower upon SC2.
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This shouldn't be an issue. People have had pros boosting their teams in games for years and sc2 gives no rewards for being high on the ladder, if some idiot wants to waste cash to have his account be GM for a little while then let them be.
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On July 17 2012 13:10 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 12:35 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 12:08 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not just account sharing in general. I should actually note in the OP that it violates both the SC2 EULA and the Battle.Net TOU. 2(B) of the TOU states:
"You agree that you will not, under any circumstances exploit the Service, a Game or any part thereof for any commercial purpose, including without limitation...perform in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling."
But to your point of no enforcement. Lack of enforcement does not justify a wrong. Lack of enforcement is because it's a ridiculous rule. They paid for their account. Let them do whatever the fuck they want to do with it. They should be able to maphack too? It's not their own account, technically Blizzard still owns it.
Is there anything else you'd like to put into my mouth?
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On July 17 2012 13:28 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 13:10 FairForever wrote:On July 17 2012 12:35 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 12:08 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not just account sharing in general. I should actually note in the OP that it violates both the SC2 EULA and the Battle.Net TOU. 2(B) of the TOU states:
"You agree that you will not, under any circumstances exploit the Service, a Game or any part thereof for any commercial purpose, including without limitation...perform in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling."
But to your point of no enforcement. Lack of enforcement does not justify a wrong. Lack of enforcement is because it's a ridiculous rule. They paid for their account. Let them do whatever the fuck they want to do with it. They should be able to maphack too? It's not their own account, technically Blizzard still owns it. Is there anything else you'd like to put into my mouth?
Oh wow.. That's a bit of a serve, don't you think?
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so I am reading a lot of speculation, a lot of strawmen, and a bunch of slippery slope arguments. I don't know how to constructively contribute to this thread from there, other than by saying that there is not enough evidence to suggest that programmers (you meant programmers, not progamers, unless you are talking about games other than SC2, in which case the focus on battlenet and Blizzard is a bit narrow-minded) "boosting" accounts is harming anybody, let alone evidence to support the claim that programmers are doing this.
I can understand some of the mindsets in here, but I think unless there is something substantial to support views presented in this thread one way or another, this is an exercise in speculation, and speculation alone..
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On July 17 2012 13:51 FireSA wrote:
so I am reading a lot of speculation, a lot of strawmen, and a bunch of slippery slope arguments. I don't know how to constructively contribute to this thread from there, other than by saying that there is not enough evidence to suggest that programmers (you meant programmers, not progamers, unless you are talking about games other than SC2, in which case the focus on battlenet and Blizzard is a bit narrow-minded) "boosting" accounts is harming anybody, let alone evidence to support the claim that programmers are doing this.
I can understand some of the mindsets in here, but I think unless there is something substantial to support views presented in this thread one way or another, this is an exercise in speculation, and speculation alone..
Programmers? What?
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We can go on and on in circles about whether Hacking is "wrong" or not. Something that is technically illegal doesn't make it wrong. For example, it is illegal to 30 MPH on a 25. However, is it wrong? Of course not, in fact is widely considered "right." So, we must ask ourselves if leveling services are doing harm, and if so, to what level of harm they are causing. I think they are doing minimal harm, only really being noticeable in a few circumstantial cases. That is my 2 cents, and as a semi/full pro I would enjoy the extra $$ income.
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No matter your ladder ranking, I cannot imagine a semi-pro going fully pro without scoring some results in online and LAN tourneys.
Hacking is a whole another issue and should not be mixed up here. Otherwise, it would just be a cheap way to grasp at straws when you lack real arguments.
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If the arguement for this practice violates the integrity of the ladder could the same not be said for the use of smurf accounts?
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On July 17 2012 13:35 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 13:28 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 13:10 FairForever wrote:On July 17 2012 12:35 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 12:08 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not just account sharing in general. I should actually note in the OP that it violates both the SC2 EULA and the Battle.Net TOU. 2(B) of the TOU states:
"You agree that you will not, under any circumstances exploit the Service, a Game or any part thereof for any commercial purpose, including without limitation...perform in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling."
But to your point of no enforcement. Lack of enforcement does not justify a wrong. Lack of enforcement is because it's a ridiculous rule. They paid for their account. Let them do whatever the fuck they want to do with it. They should be able to maphack too? It's not their own account, technically Blizzard still owns it. Is there anything else you'd like to put into my mouth? Oh wow.. That's a bit of a serve, don't you think?
If strawmans are serves, sure.
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Who the fuck cares? This doesn't change the game at all, no one is really hurt (OMG I LOST 20 LADDER POINTS QQ), and the players make some needed money on the side. Those of you arguing that it makes it harder for other players to break GM, that is complete bullshit. I tried to break GM last season, and unless you can beat the player who is doing the leveling in the first place, you don't deserve to be in GM. I learned that the hard way.
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On July 17 2012 14:40 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 13:35 Euronyme wrote:On July 17 2012 13:28 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 13:10 FairForever wrote:On July 17 2012 12:35 rd wrote:On July 17 2012 12:08 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not just account sharing in general. I should actually note in the OP that it violates both the SC2 EULA and the Battle.Net TOU. 2(B) of the TOU states:
"You agree that you will not, under any circumstances exploit the Service, a Game or any part thereof for any commercial purpose, including without limitation...perform in-game services in exchange for payment outside the Game, e.g., power-leveling."
But to your point of no enforcement. Lack of enforcement does not justify a wrong. Lack of enforcement is because it's a ridiculous rule. They paid for their account. Let them do whatever the fuck they want to do with it. They should be able to maphack too? It's not their own account, technically Blizzard still owns it. Is there anything else you'd like to put into my mouth? Oh wow.. That's a bit of a serve, don't you think? If strawmans are serves, sure.
I was thinking of it going something like this
"arugment back and forth blablabla"
"anything else you want to put in my mouth?"
"my dick"
Didn't happen though :'(
Edit. From what I can tell pretty much everyone is just reading the OP and then post whatever comes to mind.
Read the thread!
No one has yet said anything to the argument 'blizzard tournament players are invited through ladder' except for 'ladder stupid stfu'
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Omg my ladder points I am only masters, clearly these powerlevelers are to blame
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I personally think powerleveling doesnt really matter much. They will eventually be brought back to their league that they belong in. As you have mentioned, once you get into GM you need to maintain a certain amount of bonus pool or else you will be kicked out. So those bronze league kids who got their accounts to GM, this means that they will need to spend their bonus pool, and if they cant even win a game that means their bonus pool will accumulate? Yes, bonus pool for them will increase. Also even startale_bomber did a powerleveling on NA serv while he was streaming. I dont see why not?
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On July 17 2012 16:00 hangene92 wrote:
I personally think powerleveling doesnt really matter much. They will eventually be brought back to their league that they belong in. As you have mentioned, once you get into GM you need to maintain a certain amount of bonus pool or else you will be kicked out. So those bronze league kids who got their accounts to GM, this means that they will need to spend their bonus pool, and if they cant even win a game that means their bonus pool will accumulate? Yes, bonus pool for them will increase. Also even startale_bomber did a powerleveling on NA serv while he was streaming. I dont see why not?
The trick is to leave like 50 games on a row and then kill some bronze leaguers, you'll be in GM for the whole season
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I feel pity to players who pay the money for laddering. This is really funny style to have a big dick  )
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EPT
