EPTChasing the Carrot or the Target - Page 3
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jdseemoreglass
United States3773 Posts
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kanada
Canada255 Posts
On June 26 2012 03:29 NeMeSiS3 wrote: I understand that he stopped playing, my question was referring before he gave up, did his mentality as a player who hated being placed in those specific situations end up making him angry about losing, while he was simply trying to just improve? It is my opinion this "anger" towards rushing/cheesing causes a lot of players to just get pissed and drop what they're doing. I can see you're acting in a mildy ironic and condescending way with your posts, seeing as you referenced me as annoying yet post diligently in an offensive manner. Hope that clears it up. I would most certainly say it hindered my skill and stopped me from improving my 1v1. The real issue would be how angry/upset/dissappointed ( whatever it was ) after losing. This lead me to playing team games. A lot of this is also ladder fear, but I would always feel so good after playing a long macro 1v1 win or lose. After playing a short cheesy game that I lose however I would feel much worse than the wins. That's where team games come in. Even if I get quadruple cheesed I can feel like it wasn't 100% my fault for losing. Not to mention it is always fun to have someone on skype to play with. | ||
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lost_artz
United States366 Posts
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HiTeK532
Canada171 Posts
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Domus
510 Posts
It is very simply, the foreign players you mention are willing and able to focus purely on practice, not on streaming, not on pleasing sponsors, not on showing up on talk shows... They delay school, they go to korea so they can play against more players who take it seriously, they spend full time+ on practice...And also, they only need to win, there are no extras. For example, Thorzain might drop in skill pretty fast if he is forced into the standard foreigner EG regime...That is, results don't matter as long as you stream, sit on enough talk shows, and mention the sponsors enough. By the way, I am not saying that it is bad that EG does this, it just does not lead to the best performance of their players. It does however lead to a more sustainable business. And this is the same for many foreigners, they need to stream or make their sponsors happy, the only way you don't need to do this is when you are at the very top already. | ||
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Oblivion753
United States73 Posts
On June 26 2012 02:43 Colocolo wrote: tbh I think foreigners are more and more closing the gap especially: Stephano, Sase, Naniwa beating Code-S players in tourneys atm. So there might be no basis for any discussion? While i can see the reasoning why a lot of people would think this way, (be it legitimate or just blind faith) but i think if we all keep in mind that Korea isn't even 100 % into this game. SC2 is not a main sport in Korea and STILL they are miles ahead of us. (Major tournament results prove how far Koreans are and you must keep in mind that in foreign tournaments we, the foreigners, actually have the upper hand in our "house" so to speak) People need to realize that once these BW pros pick up SC2 it will be the end of 95% of foreigners' chances winning any major tournaments IF we keep at this pace. With that being said i think the OP was right in realizing that Koreans aren't born with an innate ability to play starcraft; to put it bluntly foreigners are just lazy and don't practice with the same efficiency Koreans do. I would be very interested in hearing what everyone else has to say! | ||
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chillpenguin
United States90 Posts
If I went to NBA.com or whatever and made a thread complaining about how there aren't enough white people in the NBA, how I would be more interested in the NBA if only there were more personalities I could relate to, etc, I would be called a racist and banned. However that's like all people talk about on this site, and no one even thinks twice about it possibly being racist. | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
It's nothing to do with mentality or whatever. It's just never been possible for westerners to make a reasonable living off StarCraft until now and so we lack the both the infrastructure and the large pool of talented pros and aspiring pros. Korea got a decade long head start and that's not going to be overcome in a short period of time. | ||
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lost_artz
United States366 Posts
On June 26 2012 05:28 chillpenguin wrote: Have you ever thought that maybe there is something inherently embibed into the Korean/Asian race that makes them better at RTS games? I mean, anyone who has ever watched professional Basketball, Football, Track&Field will see that there's something about the Black race that makes them better at those sports (being taller, faster, stronger, etc). Why can't there be something similar for E-sports? If I went to NBA.com or whatever and made a thread complaining about how there aren't enough white people in the NBA, how I would be more interested in the NBA if only there were more personalities I could relate to, etc, I would be called a racist and banned. However that's like all people talk about on this site, and no one even thinks twice about it possibly being racist. Everyone has thought that at some point. But that doesn't make it true. Really all you are seeing is people who are willing to give their all to be the best they can vs. people who are content to be one of the best. If foreigners wanted to truly be on the same levels as Koreans they could be. There's nothing different between the two expect for appearance and language. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Are there more top koreans than there are top foreigners? Of course; Korean teams can maintain larger rosters in better practice environments for less money. The Korean server is the best in the world. The depth of the Korean scene isn't surprising at all. But the top foreigners are closer to the top Koreans than at any point in the past year and a half, imo. It's unreasonable of us to expect to achieve Korean depth at the top. But not for our top 6-15 players to be able to compete head on with the Koreans, which is exactly what they're doing. | ||
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chillpenguin
United States90 Posts
On June 26 2012 05:33 lost_artz wrote: Everyone has thought that at some point. But that doesn't make it true. Really all you are seeing is people who are willing to give their all to be the best they can vs. people who are content to be one of the best. If foreigners wanted to truly be on the same levels as Koreans they could be. There's nothing different between the two expect for appearance and language. But do you know that that isn't true? What if there is something about a Korean's brain that makes them better at multitasking, or something better about their wrists that makes them have more precise and quicker mouse movement? Just like some races are predisposed to be taller, faster, stronger, why can't others be predisposed for their brain's to work in different and better ways? The brain is just another part of your body like your legs or arms. It's a touchy subject, but you can't completely disregard this possibility. | ||
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NoGasfOu
United States1117 Posts
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Brindled
United States508 Posts
On June 26 2012 08:08 NoGasfOu wrote: This thread is more like an excuse for losing to Koreans and being bad at the game to me. Doesn't matter what you chose, cheesing, all in, macro, carrot or target, Koreans are always better and will always be better. There's no closing-the-skill-gap there. Just face it! Koreans are better at Starcraft; and I'm not saying whether they're natually good at it. Your penis is always going to be smaller and always will be smaller than everyone else's. There's no closing-the-size-gap there. Just face it! Your penis is small and I'm not saying whether its naturally so or not. | ||
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Oblivion753
United States73 Posts
On June 26 2012 05:45 chillpenguin wrote: But do you know that that isn't true? What if there is something about a Korean's brain that makes them better at multitasking, or something better about their wrists that makes them have more precise and quicker mouse movement? Just like some races are predisposed to be taller, faster, stronger, why can't others be predisposed for their brain's to work in different and better ways? The brain is just another part of your body like your legs or arms. It's a touchy subject, but you can't completely disregard this possibility. Are you seriously attributing Korean dominance in Starcraft to their race? Really? Not only is that an insult to the Koreans who work so hard at the game but it also silly. Do Americans suck at soccer because Brazilians and Spaniards are born with better genetics? No. Are African American athletes better at basketball because they are born with the abilities to dribble and shoot? No. Are Canadians and Russians better at hockey because they have special stick handling and skating abilities? No. The fact of the matter is that in all of these scenarios the athletes who perform the best are the ones who practice the most and work both the hardest and smartest. In Brazil they start playing samba in the streets of Sao Paulo at a very young age and put in the extra effort. The NBA is dominated by African Americans because they grow up in cities with basketball courts nearby and spend their time playing all day with their friends and competing. Like a lot of things Starcraft is a skill. And like all skills to get good at it you need to put in the effort. Koreans work harder and smarter than foreigners who are known to be lazy in their own right, and as a consequence the Koreans are dominating. As the BW pros move to sc2 we had better step our game if we want to avoid being overrun. | ||
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VillageBC
322 Posts
But right now, I think the simple answer is nearly everyone outside of KR does not, or has not implemented an effective practice regime/strategy. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
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VillageBC
322 Posts
On June 26 2012 09:21 SupLilSon wrote: Damn, this thread just got pretty racist. You da man. Nothing racist about science. It might be messier then we like it to be though. | ||
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NoGasfOu
United States1117 Posts
On June 26 2012 08:25 Brindled wrote: Your penis is always going to be smaller and always will be smaller than everyone else's. There's no closing-the-size-gap there. Just face it! Your penis is small and I'm not saying whether its naturally so or not. Fail argument. You don't know whether my penis is small. However, everyone is sure that Koreans OWN foreigners in starcraft. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=90874¤tpage=All | ||
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On June 26 2012 04:42 desarrisc wrote: 2.Does the concept of winning take the backseat to improving and is this good or bad? Is winning at all cost a good mentality, or is it faulty? I think Naniwa really has this mindset and he's doing incredibly well because he doesn't really care much for streaming or salary as income. He really plays to win, and he's been quite successful at showing us that.  Yeah, I would agree that his meticulous work ethic and his quest for wins really propels him high | ||
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