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**EDIT:
**This guy did a great job putting everything into a google doc. Has more info than me, void ray vs massive for example.
Check it out.
**Fixed Interceptor attack speed
**Added Protoss + Zerg + all races combined.
All of these are with 0 upgrades, might do others later.
No icons, kept it simple xD
Plz msg if there are any errors and I'll fix and edit.
**
First post. Made some dps charts for the terran units using my limited paint skills.
Dps per supply was multiplied by 6 to scale everything up to the regular dps tables.
Some values may be slightly off, as the attack speed values shown in-game are
rounded up/down. Also, the numbers don't factor in aoe / armor / health / cost / random delay etc.
Sorry if the images are too big. Thanks all, gl & hf ~
Terran:
DPS, no upgrades - http://i.imgur.com/if4rM.jpg?1
DPS per 6 supply, no upgrades - http://i.imgur.com/Q03YU.jpg?1
DPS, +3 attack - http://i.imgur.com/N9LUL.jpg?1
DPS per 6 supply, +3 attack - http://i.imgur.com/xmOtS.jpg?1
original spreadsheet - http://i.imgur.com/fSPhi.jpg?1
+3 attack spreadsheet - http://i.imgur.com/QYsyb.jpg?1
Protoss:
Protoss units, no upgrades - http://i.imgur.com/LXscp.jpg?1
Zerg:
Zerg units, no upgrades - http://i.imgur.com/kll9k.jpg?1
All together:
DPS comparison, no upgrades - http://i.imgur.com/flhHP.jpg?1
DPS per 6 supply comparison, no upgrades - http://i.imgur.com/cb6IC.jpg?1
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Nice post!
This really makes me want to incorporate reapers into my bio army. Maybe if I keep them on follow command behind marauders or medivacs they might survive long enough to deal some damage.
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Maybe reapers will be used more in HOTS considering it seems to have 60 hp now (+10) and hp regen based on the battle report.
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Wow, really nice charts. Thank you.
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Yeah, Reapers seem like the big surprise from those charts. I wonder what a well protected pack of reapers could do against chargelots in bio terran vs protoss deathball fights. I always thought that better usage of ghosts or blueflame hellions might be the answer, but those numbers say that terrans should try out reapers first. Just gotta control them extremely well.
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Huh, I wonder if super lategame tvp/tvz the terran is better off just making 25 rax with techlabs and going reaper marauder medivac instead of marines... If you get into a situation where cost is irrelevant and you have enough rax, then reapers just seem objectively better in every way (except 5 less health)
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On June 23 2012 10:49 RenSC2 wrote:
Yeah, Reapers seem like the big surprise from those charts. I wonder what a well protected pack of reapers could do against chargelots in bio terran vs protoss deathball fights. I always thought that better usage of ghosts or blueflame hellions might be the answer, but those numbers say that terrans should try out reapers first. Just gotta control them extremely well.
What the charts don't show is unit health, so I really don't think massing reapers should be an answer for terran at any point due to their squishyness.
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On June 23 2012 10:51 Ghoststrikes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 10:49 RenSC2 wrote:
Yeah, Reapers seem like the big surprise from those charts. I wonder what a well protected pack of reapers could do against chargelots in bio terran vs protoss deathball fights. I always thought that better usage of ghosts or blueflame hellions might be the answer, but those numbers say that terrans should try out reapers first. Just gotta control them extremely well. What the charts don't show is unit health, so I really don't think massing reapers should be an answer for terran at any point due to their squishyness.
Don't forget they have the same build time as a siege tank.
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Do zerg now :D
Seriously, I want to know Zerg ):
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How do reapers fare against a planetary fortress (with repairing SCVs) ... I wonder.
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Wow awesome! Well organized and looks great :D
Thanks for making!
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On June 23 2012 10:51 Ghoststrikes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 10:49 RenSC2 wrote:
Yeah, Reapers seem like the big surprise from those charts. I wonder what a well protected pack of reapers could do against chargelots in bio terran vs protoss deathball fights. I always thought that better usage of ghosts or blueflame hellions might be the answer, but those numbers say that terrans should try out reapers first. Just gotta control them extremely well. What the charts don't show is unit health, so I really don't think massing reapers should be an answer for terran at any point due to their squishyness.
They only have 5 less HP than a Marine, which is nullified once they stim.
The real issue here is the build time, but I have to say I'm really surprised Reaper's non-light damage still hit the top 5 with +3 Atk.
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On June 23 2012 10:49 killerdog wrote:
Huh, I wonder if super lategame tvp/tvz the terran is better off just making 25 rax with techlabs and going reaper marauder medivac instead of marines... If you get into a situation where cost is irrelevant and you have enough rax, then reapers just seem objectively better in every way (except 5 less health)
plz make these vs my bls ;o
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I'd be very interested to see this for Z and P aswell, do you have any plans to make those chats?
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On June 23 2012 11:13 HeavOnEarth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 10:49 killerdog wrote:
Huh, I wonder if super lategame tvp/tvz the terran is better off just making 25 rax with techlabs and going reaper marauder medivac instead of marines... If you get into a situation where cost is irrelevant and you have enough rax, then reapers just seem objectively better in every way (except 5 less health) plz make these vs my bls ;o
hm maybe add vikings? But i don't think reapers is a good idea in TvZ. Reapers can harass (*can*) or like in a drop, but marine drops are much less expensive and can kill both drones and hatches/tech. Also you're better off saving your gas for those medivacs. Lately they've been making ultralisks vs MMM tank so you need that high medivac count to keep your [small MMM numbers] alive and abuse the weakness of Ultralisks in small numbers since you can just keep kiting and he won't have enough fungals (seen often in MKP's games).
Reapers reinforce a lot slower than marines too, and it would probably be better to make less Rax and make more OCs. Also obviously reapers will only be useful against light units in battle... meaning lings and banelings. What if he goes ultralisks or roach (likely)? Suddenly your army is much less flexible and there are more opportunities for the zerg to punish your composition.
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On June 23 2012 11:17 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 11:13 HeavOnEarth wrote:On June 23 2012 10:49 killerdog wrote:
Huh, I wonder if super lategame tvp/tvz the terran is better off just making 25 rax with techlabs and going reaper marauder medivac instead of marines... If you get into a situation where cost is irrelevant and you have enough rax, then reapers just seem objectively better in every way (except 5 less health) plz make these vs my bls ;o hm maybe add vikings? But i don't think reapers is a good idea in TvZ. Reapers can harass (*can*) or like in a drop, but marine drops are much less expensive and can kill both drones and hatches/tech. Also you're better off saving your gas for those medivacs. Reapers reinforce a lot slower than marines too, and it would probably be better to make less Rax and make more OCs. Also obviously reapers will only be useful against light units in battle... meaning lings and banelings. What if he goes ultralisks or roach (likely)? Suddenly your army is much less flexible and there are more opportunities for the zerg to punish your composition.
Banelings aren't light units.
And I would naturally agree with Reapers vs Armored, but it seems Reaper's DPS increases dramatically at higher supply, to the point where they're about equal to a Marauder. Of course, a Marauder has higher damage per hit (which makes them more valuable in smaller numbers and in shorter engagements), but Reapers are smaller and with Nitro-packs, much faster.
I'd say it's worth experimenting with.
EDIT: Also, Terran really doesn't have a gas problem at all in the lategame if you aren't significantly behind. In fact, we have a gas surplus most of the time. Getting Reapers out wouldn't be a problem at all.
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United States320 Posts
very nice, when you said limited paint skills i pictured some horrible hand/mouse scrawled graph on a white background, not the case. But to be honest Marauders are so rediculus i mean yeah its been said to death but they are so good.
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I suppose it doesn't take armor into account, the reaper hits twice so it's less awesome than it seems.
Still, reapers hit squads in lieu of drops late game would be sexy, qxc style.
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On June 23 2012 11:15 Monochromatic wrote:
I'd be very interested to see this for Z and P aswell, do you have any plans to make those chats?
Don't PLEASE don't. It will become the largest balance whine thread since the last patch.... DPS charts for the other races will just incite insanity....
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The reaper's range is important to take into account. When you're talking huge numbers of units, their dps is pretty irrelevant when most of them are retarding around in the back.
I'd obviously like to see P/Z of this, but also dps/cost, adjusted for gas and +100 minerals/supply.
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EPT
