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On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said.
there was no wcs in 2011...do you mean wcg?
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On June 15 2012 18:25 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said. there was no wcs in 2011...do you mean wcg?
Yes. Sorry about that. Maybe a better example is Naniwa with GSL and MLG.
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On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said.
You miss the fact that attendance of MLG is not necessarily vital for European players, since their sponsors target a whole different market. aTn's main sponsor is Alternate, a German PC retail company. A more fitting comparison would be choosing between WCS Germany and IEM Cologne, a choice Socke, his team and their sponsor most definitely would not be happy to make.
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On June 15 2012 18:34 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Edit: I guess that's why Quantic Naniwa is a better example. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said. You miss the fact that attendance of MLG is not necessarily vital for European players, since their sponsors target a whole different market. aTn's main sponsor is Alternate, a German PC retail company. A more fitting comparison would be choosing between WCS Germany and IEM Cologne, a choice Socke, his team and their sponsor most definitely would not be happy to make.
That's true about the comparison between WCS and IEM but you can't compare German scheduling efficiency to other countries. =P
I would say that MLG is big enough for a player to make a name for himself as well as competing for prize pool. Plus I assume that most people that follow sc2 in Germany would still watch MLG, no?
I don't really know the position of Alternate or aTn is on this , but if feels like some pretty big exposure.
EDIT: As I mentioned earlier Quantic Naniwa is a better example of this with GSL and MLG. Quantic being an american team.
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On June 15 2012 18:38 Scheme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:34 rotegirte wrote:On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:
[quote]
This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Edit: I guess that's why Quantic Naniwa is a better example. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said. You miss the fact that attendance of MLG is not necessarily vital for European players, since their sponsors target a whole different market. aTn's main sponsor is Alternate, a German PC retail company. A more fitting comparison would be choosing between WCS Germany and IEM Cologne, a choice Socke, his team and their sponsor most definitely would not be happy to make. That's true about the comparison between WCS and IEM but you can't compare German scheduling efficiency to other countries. =P I would say that MLG is big enough for a player to make a name for himself as well as competing for prize pool. Plus I assume that most people that follow sc2 in Germany would still watch MLG, no? I don't really know the position of Alternate or aTn is on this , but if feels like some pretty big exposure.
I can't find the specific episodes, but on both The Executives and from time to time also on Lo3, the sponsorship situation was roughly described in such a way. There's not really much to it, every team has its own agenda. It is always a cost/benefit calculation. Obviously the cost of Idra's attempt of both WCS US and MLG is minimal to the potential benefit. And by that I mean on three different levels: personally for the player, for the brand and for their sponsors- which all have to be aligned the best possible way (not to mention the interests of the organizer, and well, everyone else involved). There were clear advantages to how MLG/WCS took place. Naturally, reliable measurement of success or performance can often only be taken in hindsight. And that's basically what happened. MLGAdam put it correctly: Neither side portrayed anything significant falsely. I'm sure everyone was aware of possible up- and downsides of this endeavor. The question was just how much. In a sense, Idra gave his personal evaluation, with the verdict that changes would be desirable.
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On June 15 2012 18:34 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said. You miss the fact that attendance of MLG is not necessarily vital for European players, since their sponsors target a whole different market. aTn's main sponsor is Alternate, a German PC retail company. A more fitting comparison would be choosing between WCS Germany and IEM Cologne, a choice Socke, his team and their sponsor most definitely would not be happy to make.
The only reason one would pick WCS over an IEM is the lack of general competition so it's an easier prize grab meaning less fame then that of the bigger more prestigious tournament which is hands down IEM. So I don't quite think your example is even reasonably good seeing as how they're not even comparable on any level. Not sure why you would even think they wouldn't be happy when given that choice cause the choice should always be an IEM over a qualifier -.-
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On June 15 2012 19:14 Catatonic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:34 rotegirte wrote:On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:
[quote]
This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said. You miss the fact that attendance of MLG is not necessarily vital for European players, since their sponsors target a whole different market. aTn's main sponsor is Alternate, a German PC retail company. A more fitting comparison would be choosing between WCS Germany and IEM Cologne, a choice Socke, his team and their sponsor most definitely would not be happy to make. The only reason one would pick WCS over an IEM is the lack of general competition so it's an easier prize grab meaning less fame then that of the bigger more prestigious tournament which is hands down IEM. So I don't quite think your example is even reasonably good seeing as how they're not even comparable on any level. Not sure why you would even think they wouldn't be happy when given that choice cause the choice should always be an IEM over a qualifier -.-
Sure. Like I mentioned above, the better example is Quantic Naniwa having to choose between two prestigious tournaments, GSL and MLG.
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On June 15 2012 06:50 SnuggleZhenya wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:
There are plenty of cases in other sports Name some in professional sports.
Playing the Stanley Cup finals on lousy, chippy ice.
1 wrong move and its bye bye ACL.
In hockey, players constantly choose between international competition and the NHL.
what is better ? representing your country for the Spengler Cup or sitting in the press box at the Air Canada Centre just in case 2 defensemen get hurt in the same weeked so you can be available as an emergency fill in?
The 2010 "Winter Classic" occurred in the pouring rain at 7 Celsius under artificial lighting conditions.
This basically cost Sidney Crosby 2 years of his professional career and he'll probably never be the same player again... a la Eric Lindros , Paul Kariya, etc etc.
Dozens of complaints from lugers about the 2010 track being way too dangerous.
But, the admins want the track to produce a new world record.
Speed = Increased Danger.
The 2010 Olympic luge takes place on a track that was so dangerous it was modified that day after the luger died.
basically, all these lugers were now on a brand new untested recently modified track.
in 2005 the F1 Event at Indianapolis is so dangerous all but 6 cars choose to race. 7 teams retire on the opening lap.
from 1991 to 1993 "Neon" Dieon Sanders constantly had to choose which competitions he would play in and which he would avoid.
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Vatican City State582 Posts
this definitely is a fair concern, and i believe viewers had rather watch the events separately so that players could perform better, but to be fair, players have the choice to participate in international events or national events. The same exact thing happens in football. Teams, players could decide if they wanted to participate in World Cup, FA Cup, other league or regional cups.
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On June 15 2012 19:19 Scheme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 19:14 Catatonic wrote:On June 15 2012 18:34 rotegirte wrote:On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:
[quote]
- Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL.
- Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany.
Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said. You miss the fact that attendance of MLG is not necessarily vital for European players, since their sponsors target a whole different market. aTn's main sponsor is Alternate, a German PC retail company. A more fitting comparison would be choosing between WCS Germany and IEM Cologne, a choice Socke, his team and their sponsor most definitely would not be happy to make. The only reason one would pick WCS over an IEM is the lack of general competition so it's an easier prize grab meaning less fame then that of the bigger more prestigious tournament which is hands down IEM. So I don't quite think your example is even reasonably good seeing as how they're not even comparable on any level. Not sure why you would even think they wouldn't be happy when given that choice cause the choice should always be an IEM over a qualifier -.- Sure. Like I mentioned above, the better example is Quantic Naniwa having to choose between two prestigious tournaments, GSL and MLG.
There is a big difference between naniwa and idra situation. MLG wanted WCS to be at the same weekend with the mlg tournament. So that's why they deliberatly put them together. It could have been avoided other wise.
MLG and GSL don't really want to put these 2 tournaments together as than the viewercount (ok maybe not viewer directly, but the player had to choose between those 2 tournaments and hence also his fans) would drop. I'm sure they would have wanted to have a bigger break between these 2 tournaments if it could have been possible. MLG didn't think: "oh, GSL is on this date? ok, lets put mlg also there". (unless GSL and MLG hate eachother and are directly competing, which they probably don't in this degree  )
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EPT
