|
Greg “IdrA” Fields gives his opinion on how both events were organized this past weekend.
Short Excerpt -
"This past weekend MLG and the American finals for the WCS were both hosted at the same venue at the same time in Anaheim. I have never played multiple live tournaments over the course of one weekend like this, but I assumed going into the event that MLG and Blizzard were well aware of the potential scheduling difficulties and would be prepared to deal with them. Blizzard advertised the opportunity to also participate in the MLG open bracket as encouragement for players to qualify for and attend the WCS finals. Players were in no way discouraged from playing both or told that playing both would lead to an unreasonable schedule or tournament conditions. As it turned out they were in no way prepared to handle the situation and it led to a terrible, nearly unplayable event for many of the players who participated in both tournaments." Greg "IdrA" Fields
Read the rest HERE.
Greg “IdrA” Fields commented in this thread about the choice to play both WCS and MLG:
"mlg and wcs arent really a choice. ones a massive international tournament run by blizzard that comes with the title "american champion" and the other is one of the major events of the premier non korean league.
its like hosting wimbeldon and the french open on the same weekend and telling players to choose which to play. except here theyre hosted in the same location, which makes it seem like you can play both. the intent of this article is to show why you cant, and that it is just as unreasonable as holding 2 unmissable tournaments at the same time in seperate locations."
My (fams) personal comments to those that arguing players could have chosen to play one tournament or the other:
+ Show Spoiler +
1. EG is a professional team. These players make a living by making appearances in the biggest tournaments. MLG is one of the most important Starcraft 2 events - especially this event with all of the media attention and promotion. It would be a bad idea to skip the MLG event in this regard.
I understand Nony did skip MLG for WCS, and he is also a high profile player on a professional team. However, I would argue that Nony himself also explained that he had little to no practice before the event (for one month). He also reasoned in his interview with HoT_Bid that it was obvious going into the weekend event that WCS and MLG would be an extremely hectic ordeal. Him choosing to focus all of his energies on WCS instead of MLG was the right move.
2. There shouldn't have been a choice in the first place. I do understand that as far as costs and logistics were concerned, hosting the tournaments in tandem was ideal for Activision/Blizzard and MLG.
That said, I do think each tournament should have separate days for two reasons:
1. The players. The players need rest, they need to be at the top of their game in order to not only perform for themselves and their teams, but for the fans as well. Watching a burnt out IdrA is not the same as watching a rested IdrA. The same goes for any other player or athlete.
2. The amount of content available. If WCS was focused on more as its own tournament (which it should have been considering the prize pool offered) we would have had even more high level content to enjoy. For instance, if they had rented out the Anaheim convention centre for two additional days - either before or after the MLG-KeSPA tournaments, players would have had a much easier time.
As a result, we would have been able to enjoy more matches, better matches, more interviews and exhibitions. This would also have given a higher level of exposure to North American stars and up-and-comers, which I personally feel is a high priority right now.
|
First, and this is very interesting
User was warned for this post
|
true i did notice players games that i was able to see via the streams that players who were playing back to back matches in both tournaments seemed to be getting burnt out at a much faster pace then players just playing in MLG
|
I was at MLG in person and saw how drained IdrA looked when he was playing vs daisuki... this does need to be fixed.
|
United Kingdom20300 Posts
Glad to see pros speaking out like this
|
Yeah this is dumb. Blizzard of all people should know
|
On June 13 2012 11:46 imEnex wrote:
First, and this is very interesting
what the fuck is this "first" shit o___o
I love this, I love blogs. I hope EG brings more. I remember the Grubby/Cassandra blogs and they were, personally, very awesome to read.
I wish they had a chronicler writing all the adventures EG have on a daily basis.
|
Normally I'd be inclined to say something like "IdrA, quit complaining, etc." but it was pretty painful watching some of the later MLG games who had just finished WCS games, and Sheth's blog also commented a lot on the difficulty of playing dual tourneys at once, and not knowing when the next match would be played, or who was the opponent.
|
It's unfortunate that it didn't work out in favor of everyone. There are definitely +'s to this double tournament system, however what Idra is talking about (player quality? fatigue something or other) should definitely take priority over those forementioned +'s.
I believe MLG will realize this and change it but like Idra said they probably won't be able to alter their schedule by Summer Championships/MLG Raleigh.
|
|
|
Glad idra has the balls to speak up
|
On June 13 2012 11:46 imEnex wrote:
First, and this is very interesting
i believe TL ban for something like this so be careful with the 'first' stuff.
yea it does seem unreasonable to play until 2:30 am then play again at noon the next day. i think a lot of players will skip out on mlg open just to play the WCS at MLG raleigh
|
My thoughts exactly. People were telling me that Daisuke and Vibe deserved to be in the finals because they made it and Sheth, Idra, etc got knocked out. But Daisuke and Vibe were too bad to get any meaningful MLG time, so they had the advantage of playing half the games as these guys.
|
A part of me agrees with what he says but it's not like Blizzard or MLG are putting a gun to your head forcing you to play both tournaments at the same time. You made a CHOICE to play both tournaments. You even say yourself you heard the horror stories of having to play late into the next morning and you STILL decided to play in both. What do you expect?
|
T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
They should have just played the WCS matches on saturday + sunday
|
On June 13 2012 11:51 Whatson wrote:
Normally I'd be inclined to say something like "IdrA, quit complaining, etc." but it was pretty painful watching some of the later MLG games who had just finished WCS games, and Sheth's blog also commented a lot on the difficulty of playing dual tourneys at once, and not knowing when the next match would be played, or who was the opponent.
I don't really see how it wasn't obvious that it would be hard to play both, especially when people like Nony skipped MLG to concentrate on the Blizzard tourney. Also we have players like Sase that had to play an enormous amount of games, so I can't say I feel sorry for them.
On June 13 2012 11:51 Torte de Lini wrote:what the fuck is this "first" shit o___o
Will probably get edited out.
|
Wow, that does look very very bad. His point about the psychological effects of losing a tournament going into a match and losing another as a result is definitely well taken.
|
Jesus sounds awful and I read the blog sheth made to. Playing 12 hours straight then getting 5 hours of sleep and playing another 12 hours sounds terrible. Feel bad for the pros who play both tournaments xD.
|
I have yet to see any pro (or caster even) say it was a good idea, and plenty who said it sucked. Chances are it won't be any different next MLG championship though.
|
Seems like a fair criticism. But on the state of the game right before this tournament Idra was excited about the qualifiers because he thought the quality of opponents was crap while the reward for winning the tournament was quite rich. Seems like he either severely underestimated how tired he would be or simply chose to try to win as much money as possible in the same weekend and ended up under performing in the easiest tournament while more or less performing as expected as the MLG.
|
Holding two tournaments on the same weekend, at the same venue, like this, seems like a retarded idea. I'm surprised people weren't speaking out about it beforehand.
|
Watching IdrA vs Daisuki, you could tell how tired he was. Hopefully we'll get a change in schedule
|
Definitely would be reasonable for Vibe and others competing in the NA WCS tourney to only play that and not MLG's tourney in Raleigh.
|
On June 13 2012 11:46 imEnex wrote:
First, and this is very interesting
User was warned for this post
Yeah, cut this out.
I'm glad iDra spoke out about this, from a viewers perspective, having 2 tournaments was a little annoying, but I had no idea that it was THAT ridiculous for the players. Hopefully if they can't change this format for the summer tournament they will make some kind of adjustments for the players.
|
The north american championship is going to have a smaller player pool (32) so there won't be as many games, but its still double elimination. Since saturday afternoon/evening is generally loser's open bracket and pool play, I feel like saturday should be the main day of the NA championships and then finish them up sunday along with the MLG championship. If they decide not to have another kespa exhibition it should be easier to do this and it would make it somewhat easier on the players I would hope
|
IdrA is a great writer, and I agree with his criticisms completely (though that's not saying much).
|
Fair points, but I feel like nitpicking.
It’s our responsibility to let them know that we as a community do not find it worthwhile to get the extra content at the cost of those problems.
I don't think we need that much content period. I mean, we almost completely ignore the open bracket as is in any given MLG. We miss so much due to the massive amount of content in a standard MLG tournament. In a MLG/WCS hybird, we miss an inexcusable amount of games, storylines and action.
Also, I don't see how anyone thought it would be possible to have good scheduling on the players' side either. I don't know if they thought that Bo3's took a predictable amount of time or something, but they don't. This is MLG, too. Extended series will fuck over any temporal planning you made.
I honestly don't know why anyone thought this fusion tournament was a good idea.
|
On June 13 2012 12:21 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Fair points, but I feel like nitpicking. Show nested quote +It’s our responsibility to let them know that we as a community do not find it worthwhile to get the extra content at the cost of those problems. I don't think we need that much content period. I mean, we almost completely ignore the open bracket as is in any given MLG. We miss so much due to the massive amount of content in a standard MLG tournament. In a MLG/WCS hybird, we miss an inexcusable amount of games, storylines and action. Also, I don't see how anyone thought it would be possible to have good scheduling on the players' side either. I don't know if they thought that Bo3's took a predictable amount of time or something, but they don't. This is MLG, too. Extended series will fuck over any temporal planning you made. I honestly don't know why anyone thought this fusion tournament was a good idea.
Agreed. It was SC2 overload that weekend. Personally, I find that there is so much SC2 to watch, I can't keep up and only watch the finals or my favorite players. But I don't want to see Idra playing zombie games. I like the way GSL has it set up, but the US is just to large(geographically) to do that currently.
|
Looks like EG is starting to require players not producing results to write and publish something for publicity. I remember QXC did this a lot.
|
I'm glad that EG & IdrA did this because I feel players need to speak out more about these issues. You always hear a few players complain about a tournament system, but no one pays attention. Now that more pros are speaking out, people are starting to realize its a problem. It's not just "Oh CatZ was a little later, whatever." anymore, it's "Oh, all of these people are operating on 5 hours of sleep." We need to take this a step further though. Can we get something done about it instead of just complaining?
|
WCS and MLG at the same time was incredible bullshit. it felt like the players had to decide to play 1 of those to have a chance to perform well in it.
MLG open bracket and the WCS tournament are already stressful for the players by themselves, both together leads to ViBE representing the US (no offense, but he is def. not the best north american...) in WCS and none of the americans playing well at the MLG tournament (not that they would win it, or get into the pools anyway, but most of them couldve done at least a bit better i feel).
|
I think it's fairly telling that none of the NA players made it into the top 16. I wonder how it'd impact the EU people if they held the EU quals at a Dreamhack?
|
On June 13 2012 12:28 lavit2099 wrote:
I think it's fairly telling that none of the NA players made it into the top 16. I wonder how it'd impact the EU people if they held the EU quals at a Dreamhack?
I wouldn't go so far to suggest an NA player would make it to top 16 (unfortunately for my NA bros).
I also don't think an EU qual would be a good idea. Of course it'd be interesting but not exactly practical.
|
On June 13 2012 12:26 NoGasfOu wrote:
Looks like EG is starting to require players not producing results to write and publish something for publicity. I remember QXC did this a lot.
Or perhaps Idra felt this was worth talking about. I don't think Idra really needs publicity...
|
Next up, NASL finals and WCS Canada finals in the same weekend/venue!
|
congrats on your free win to 4th place
|
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys.
|
As Idra covers the grind of the open bracket is already terrible to the players without adding more workload. Adding in another WoL tourney to me devalued the brand and the prestige of both, particularly Blizzcup. But when else are all the players going to be willing to travel but to an MLG?
I can see why it was planned this way this time with all the casting, hardware and production resources in place, but next time Blizzard need to hold their own event. Perhaps if they want to continue to outsource to MLG, having deeper online qualification and replacing one live MLG arena for WCS would work really well.
|
On June 13 2012 12:38 RaNgeD wrote:
congrats on your free win to 4th place
how can you not show up and then be pissy about it?
|
Well written, I agree with pretty much everything Greg had to say. More blogs please EG
|
On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys.
IdrA has said in the past that his sponsors decide what tournaments he goes to mostly, not him.
|
On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys.
Just because you chose a job doesn't mean you lose the right to complain when a situation is handled poorly. Especially if it prevents you from doing the job to the best of your ability, in fact that's exactly when -any- worker should complain.
|
This was the main reason Tyler didn't participate in both tourneys, he wanted to focus all of his attention towards the WCS and said playing in both would not allow him to do so.
Something needs to be done. For events this large why not just start on Thursday night, 1 extra day would cost less then booking a venue for a separate date, and would allow for ample time to get everything done
|
IIRC, every Euro WCS didn't have a combined event, so all the pros in their respective countries were given a fair chance to win a decent sum of money as they focused solely on WCS. So now, just because it is convenient for Blizzard, they punish the higher caliber American pros in order to save a couple bucks with a combined event? How is this even considered fair?
|
On June 13 2012 12:51 IdrA wrote:how can you not show up and then be pissy about it?
I'm pissy because I specifically asked an admin what time I should show up for LR8 and I was told 11 am.
|
On June 13 2012 12:56 walklightwhat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys. Just because you chose a job doesn't mean you lose the right to complain when a situation is handled poorly. Especially if it prevents you from doing the job to the best of your ability, in fact that's exactly when -any- worker should complain.
Idra made the choice to play in two tournaments in one weekend, he has no right to complain about his performance issues. What did he honestly expect? he went into MLG already knowing that he was in the open bracket which is in itself a brutal run and still participated in WCS and he's surprised that he had to play such long hours. I have a solution. DONT PLAY IN TWO TOURNAMENTS AT ONE TIME. Simple as that. It's not like MLG or blizzard are forcing him to play in both at the same time.
|
On June 13 2012 13:04 RaNgeD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 12:51 IdrA wrote:On June 13 2012 12:38 RaNgeD wrote:
congrats on your free win to 4th place how can you not show up and then be pissy about it? I'm pissy because I specifically asked an admin what time I should show up for LR8 and I was told 11 am.
You listened to an admin at WCS/MLG about a schedule.... sounds like your own mistake o_O
|
On June 13 2012 13:04 RaNgeD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 12:51 IdrA wrote:On June 13 2012 12:38 RaNgeD wrote:
congrats on your free win to 4th place how can you not show up and then be pissy about it? I'm pissy because I specifically asked an admin what time I should show up for LR8 and I was told 11 am.
schedule we were emailed said it begins 10 am saturday
bitch at mlg. dont make angsty little posts in reply to my article.
|
On June 13 2012 13:07 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 12:56 walklightwhat wrote:On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys. Just because you chose a job doesn't mean you lose the right to complain when a situation is handled poorly. Especially if it prevents you from doing the job to the best of your ability, in fact that's exactly when -any- worker should complain. Idra made the choice to play in two tournaments in one weekend, he has no right to complain about his performance issues. What did he honestly expect? he went into MLG already knowing that he was in the open bracket which is in itself a brutal run and still participated in WCS and he's surprised that he had to play such long hours. I have a solution. DONT PLAY IN TWO TOURNAMENTS AT ONE TIME. Simple as that. It's not like MLG or blizzard are forcing him to play in both at the same time.
The problem here is that everyone else has gotten a chance to play their own WCS without this issue. And now suddenly Americans are punished simply because it is convenient for the organizers. So they are faced with a very difficult decision. Do they give up on MLG, where placing and playing in their tournaments play a major role in seeding? Do they give up on WCS, because they would prefer to get that seed in MLG? Or do they try their hand at both and suffer through because both are equally important to their careers?
|
On June 13 2012 13:07 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 12:56 walklightwhat wrote:On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys. Just because you chose a job doesn't mean you lose the right to complain when a situation is handled poorly. Especially if it prevents you from doing the job to the best of your ability, in fact that's exactly when -any- worker should complain. Idra made the choice to play in two tournaments in one weekend, he has no right to complain about his performance issues. What did he honestly expect? he went into MLG already knowing that he was in the open bracket which is in itself a brutal run and still participated in WCS and he's surprised that he had to play such long hours. I have a solution. DONT PLAY IN TWO TOURNAMENTS AT ONE TIME. Simple as that. It's not like MLG or blizzard are forcing him to play in both at the same time.
Yea, but his sponsors are...well I don't want to say forcing because of the negative connotation it gives to the sponsors...making him play both.
|
On June 13 2012 13:07 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 12:56 walklightwhat wrote:On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys. Just because you chose a job doesn't mean you lose the right to complain when a situation is handled poorly. Especially if it prevents you from doing the job to the best of your ability, in fact that's exactly when -any- worker should complain. Idra made the choice to play in two tournaments in one weekend, he has no right to complain about his performance issues. What did he honestly expect? he went into MLG already knowing that he was in the open bracket which is in itself a brutal run and still participated in WCS and he's surprised that he had to play such long hours. I have a solution. DONT PLAY IN TWO TOURNAMENTS AT ONE TIME. Simple as that. It's not like MLG or blizzard are forcing him to play in both at the same time.
On June 13 2012 12:55 Whole wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys. IdrA has said in the past that his sponsors decide what tournaments he goes to mostly, not him.
Wham bam.
|
On June 13 2012 13:07 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 12:56 walklightwhat wrote:On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys. Just because you chose a job doesn't mean you lose the right to complain when a situation is handled poorly. Especially if it prevents you from doing the job to the best of your ability, in fact that's exactly when -any- worker should complain. Idra made the choice to play in two tournaments in one weekend, he has no right to complain about his performance issues. What did he honestly expect? he went into MLG already knowing that he was in the open bracket which is in itself a brutal run and still participated in WCS and he's surprised that he had to play such long hours. I have a solution. DONT PLAY IN TWO TOURNAMENTS AT ONE TIME. Simple as that. It's not like MLG or blizzard are forcing him to play in both at the same time.
This isn't just one person being affected. So now every NA player who wants to play in WCS should be expected not to participate in the biggest NA league? That's absurd, and no other country is has this burden put on it's players as far as I know. The Swedish qualifier isn't being held at Dreamhack this weekend etc. The players for other countries aren't forced to make a decision between playing in a major tournament or playing their national championship.
|
On June 13 2012 12:26 NoGasfOu wrote:
Looks like EG is starting to require players not producing results to write and publish something for publicity. I remember QXC did this a lot.
Reading that just make it so obvious that you came into the thread purely to take a jab at IdrA, regardless of what the thread was about. TL needs more quality posters like you, champ. How funny that you joined in April and have 3 posts per day. What did your first account get banned for?
|
I always imagined MLG tournaments were the hardest to win (harder than GSL) not because of the quality of the player pool, but because the scheduling of the open tournament seemed ridiculous. Not to mention they added a boss level even if you get past the open.
|
On June 13 2012 13:11 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:07 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 12:56 walklightwhat wrote:On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys. Just because you chose a job doesn't mean you lose the right to complain when a situation is handled poorly. Especially if it prevents you from doing the job to the best of your ability, in fact that's exactly when -any- worker should complain. Idra made the choice to play in two tournaments in one weekend, he has no right to complain about his performance issues. What did he honestly expect? he went into MLG already knowing that he was in the open bracket which is in itself a brutal run and still participated in WCS and he's surprised that he had to play such long hours. I have a solution. DONT PLAY IN TWO TOURNAMENTS AT ONE TIME. Simple as that. It's not like MLG or blizzard are forcing him to play in both at the same time. The problem here is that everyone else has gotten a chance to play their own WCS without this issue. And now suddenly Americans are punished simply because it is convenient for the organizers. So they are faced with a very difficult decision. Do they give up on MLG, where placing and playing in their tournaments play a major role in seeding? Do they give up on WCS, because they would prefer to get that seed in MLG? Or do they try their hand at both and suffer through because both are equally important to their careers?
Life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world where everyone doesn't get the same opportunities. As for the bolded part, YES. Make a choice. You're an adult.
|
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice.
|
On June 13 2012 13:17 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:11 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:07 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 12:56 walklightwhat wrote:On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys. Just because you chose a job doesn't mean you lose the right to complain when a situation is handled poorly. Especially if it prevents you from doing the job to the best of your ability, in fact that's exactly when -any- worker should complain. Idra made the choice to play in two tournaments in one weekend, he has no right to complain about his performance issues. What did he honestly expect? he went into MLG already knowing that he was in the open bracket which is in itself a brutal run and still participated in WCS and he's surprised that he had to play such long hours. I have a solution. DONT PLAY IN TWO TOURNAMENTS AT ONE TIME. Simple as that. It's not like MLG or blizzard are forcing him to play in both at the same time. The problem here is that everyone else has gotten a chance to play their own WCS without this issue. And now suddenly Americans are punished simply because it is convenient for the organizers. So they are faced with a very difficult decision. Do they give up on MLG, where placing and playing in their tournaments play a major role in seeding? Do they give up on WCS, because they would prefer to get that seed in MLG? Or do they try their hand at both and suffer through because both are equally important to their careers? Life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world where everyone doesn't get the same opportunities. As for the bolded part, YES. Make a choice. You're an adult.
Life isn't fair, but tournaments try to be. Even if they don't schedule the events at different times there could be an easy fix to this problem with different scheduling or something. There's no reason not to draw attention to this and hope for a fix. If the tournaments care about game quality and the legitimacy of their games they will do something at least.
|
On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice.
LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT
Ignore the troll.
|
Hahahaha i was like "Yea, sick run of SaSe look at the 12937089127398 Games he had to play."
And then i remembered there was ViBe destroying the WCS. And i remembered asking a friend why there was Vibe playing for first place and playing really bad (and winning..) but yea, this insane schedule makes everyone look bad.
Nice read IdrA atleast some guys speaking up.
|
I strongly agree.
I understand the cost perspective to an extent, but I feel that the events really should have been done separately. Having both at near simultaneous times makes it much harder on both players and fans. Players must choose to sacrifice either the quality of their play, or one event. Poor North America. Goshdarn Blizzard, you LIVE here. Don't be so cheap.
As for the fans... (or this fan)
Honestly, I feel MLG was much better advertised than WCS as well. I remember there was the finals of WCS and it was daisuki vs... someone. Oh right, vibe. I remembered finally. The only reason I remember daisuke was because they were mispronouncing his name wrong on the first day... If you take a look at the MLG thread, you'll see hundred of posts wondering who some of these WCS players are.
|
On June 13 2012 13:12 Hnnngg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:07 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 12:56 walklightwhat wrote:On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys. Just because you chose a job doesn't mean you lose the right to complain when a situation is handled poorly. Especially if it prevents you from doing the job to the best of your ability, in fact that's exactly when -any- worker should complain. Idra made the choice to play in two tournaments in one weekend, he has no right to complain about his performance issues. What did he honestly expect? he went into MLG already knowing that he was in the open bracket which is in itself a brutal run and still participated in WCS and he's surprised that he had to play such long hours. I have a solution. DONT PLAY IN TWO TOURNAMENTS AT ONE TIME. Simple as that. It's not like MLG or blizzard are forcing him to play in both at the same time. Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 12:55 Whole wrote:On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys. IdrA has said in the past that his sponsors decide what tournaments he goes to mostly, not him. Wham bam.
LOL, EG doesn't practice slavery. Idra can decide whether or not he wants to participate in a tournament.
|
On June 13 2012 13:07 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 12:56 walklightwhat wrote:On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys. Just because you chose a job doesn't mean you lose the right to complain when a situation is handled poorly. Especially if it prevents you from doing the job to the best of your ability, in fact that's exactly when -any- worker should complain. Idra made the choice to play in two tournaments in one weekend, he has no right to complain about his performance issues. What did he honestly expect? he went into MLG already knowing that he was in the open bracket which is in itself a brutal run and still participated in WCS and he's surprised that he had to play such long hours. I have a solution. DONT PLAY IN TWO TOURNAMENTS AT ONE TIME. Simple as that. It's not like MLG or blizzard are forcing him to play in both at the same time.
sure, no one is forced to do anything, because only a gun held to your head counts as "forced". i guess it would be wise for tennis to hold all their tournaments on the same day also. this way, athletes would have the whole year to prepare. or mlg, dh, iem shouldn't even bother to avoid scheduling conflicts. right!
|
The schedule was absurd for the players and needs to be fixed. Also the venue security needs to either be replaced or re-trained. If the venue is not competent enough to handle this, move to a different venue. This is MLG, not some seedy dance club with ignorant bouncers.
|
Can only imagine how taxing and frustrating this event was for the pros in both tourneys. MLG alone is a painfully long but fun and rewarding tournament, let alone adding on another tourney.
|
On June 13 2012 13:19 Pimpmuckl wrote:
Hahahaha i was like "Yea, sick run of SaSe look at the 12937089127398 Games he had to play."
And then i remembered there was ViBe destroying the WCS. And i remembered asking a friend why there was Vibe playing for first place and playing really bad (and winning..) but yea, this insane schedule makes everyone look bad.
Nice read IdrA atleast some guys speaking up.
Now just imagine if SaSe had to play in WCS as well O_O
No way he makes it that deep.
|
On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll.
I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous.
|
On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:
People on TL are fucking ridiculous.
I know dude, especially guys like Mrvoodoochild1, and definitely all those fine hardworking mods.
|
On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous.
you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea?
|
On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea?
he's pretty much saying it's fine if we hold GSL, IEM, DH, MLG, HSC, IPL, and TSL on the same day since players have the right to choose which tournament to attend...LOL
|
On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous.
You're a troll because you have no valid argument and have repeated yourself in 5 different posts with:
"Life isn't fair, deal with it!"
How is that relevant to the issue? Of course life isn't fair, but tournaments should be. Everyone should have an equal opportunity to perform their best in each tournament regardless of their nationality. Just because life isn't fair, and this situation isn't fair to Americans, does not mean that this is an issue that should be ignored simply for that reason.
Now go troll elsewhere.
|
On June 13 2012 13:17 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:11 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:07 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 12:56 walklightwhat wrote:On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys. Just because you chose a job doesn't mean you lose the right to complain when a situation is handled poorly. Especially if it prevents you from doing the job to the best of your ability, in fact that's exactly when -any- worker should complain. Idra made the choice to play in two tournaments in one weekend, he has no right to complain about his performance issues. What did he honestly expect? he went into MLG already knowing that he was in the open bracket which is in itself a brutal run and still participated in WCS and he's surprised that he had to play such long hours. I have a solution. DONT PLAY IN TWO TOURNAMENTS AT ONE TIME. Simple as that. It's not like MLG or blizzard are forcing him to play in both at the same time. The problem here is that everyone else has gotten a chance to play their own WCS without this issue. And now suddenly Americans are punished simply because it is convenient for the organizers. So they are faced with a very difficult decision. Do they give up on MLG, where placing and playing in their tournaments play a major role in seeding? Do they give up on WCS, because they would prefer to get that seed in MLG? Or do they try their hand at both and suffer through because both are equally important to their careers? Life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world where everyone doesn't get the same opportunities. As for the bolded part, YES. Make a choice. You're an adult.
Honestly, this is the most backwards shit I have read in a long time.
When it's only LOGICAL and REASONABLE to bring up an issue, why wouldn't you?
Yes, let's all sit back and take things as they come. Because we're lazy people and we don't believe in improving the world around us.
|
On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys.
This is of course easy to write from the comfort of your own home. Point is, whether you think they need to suck it up or not, it does affect the games, and thus affects the enjoyment *we* get from them. People need to think less about "feel sorry for the sad players" and more about "be pissed that you're not getting the best matches you can get because people can't run a tourney properly".
Idra even said it, it's not about the amount of matches, it's about the uncertainty of when/where/who you're playing that's the issue. I think that's perfectly valid. If it affects how good the games are, we should be storming MLG/Blizz with pitchforks. Why should we as fans put up with that?
|
In theory, I do agree with what has been said. Tournaments should be organized with players in mind, they aren't just machines that can keep on playing.
In practice, I might be a bit harsh, but I feel that this sounds a lot like whining. Why? Simple : there wasn't a single american player that was seeded in pool play. Not a single american player reached the 16th place (i.e ; the last spot where you earn money). I still recognize that one player managed to reach the end of the loser bracket (with 2 others failing just at that moment) But all in all, it was expected that no american player would fare really well. I'm not even a lone voice saying it, it was in the Power Rank
#39: Liquid`Sheth
Congrats Sheth! You're the best American Zerg!
Now if only that meant something. Give us a sec, we need to go cry in a corner.
In an (unfair) comparison, it's like saying that it's unjust that the chess world championship is hosted at the same time as the town local's junior tournament. Damn, one of these kids might do well in the world championship! We should organize both tournaments having this in mind! Or we could be pragmatic...
|
On June 13 2012 13:30 Whatson wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea? he's pretty much saying it's fine if we hold GSL, IEM, DH, MLG, HSC, IPL, and TSL on the same day since players have the right to choose which tournament to attend...LOL
Imagine if any other "organized activity" did this (don't want to start the sports vs. esports debate again)? Golf has 6 majors on the same weekend, all on the same course. You'd have sixty golfers playing for 72 hours straight. Or tennis? It's something you'd do for fun, not something you'd do with real tournaments.
|
On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea?
At what pt did I say it was a good idea to hold multiple events on one weekend? I said is that Idra doesn't have a right to complain when he went into this weekend knowing how brutal the open bracket of MLG was and still decided to participate in WCS. And what I suggested to solve the problem was to make a choice in what tournament he wanted to participate in so he didnt have to play long hours. People in this thread seem to just read what they want to read.
|
the organizer may consider the fact that none of the WCS players have a decent chance in the open bracket, so that schedule would be less dependent on MLG
if it's because of the lack of computers at the venue then I have nothing to say :p
|
On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous.
What does TL has to do with your argument? And yes your point is so absurd it sounds trollish in the least. You don't get to take one's right to complain about something he can't fully control, put yourself in a progamer place for a secondm, think about the stress of not knowing who you'll play, when you'll play and if you'll play in the scheduled time, exactly because it's his job to do this it becomes that much more stressful.
|
On June 13 2012 13:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea? At what pt did I say it was a good idea to hold multiple events on one weekend? I said is that Idra doesn't have a right to complain when he went into this weekend knowing how brutal the open bracket of MLG was and still decided to participate in WCS. And what I suggested to solve the problem was to make a choice in what tournament he wanted to participate in so he didnt have to play long hours. People in this thread seem to just read what they want to read.
I can't imagine that choosing between tournaments is an easy thing for a pro-gamer, who would like to attend as many tourneys as possible.
I think they should have held the WCS on a friday or something, or a long-weekend (if you have those in the US)  Giving time for players to perform at their peak and provide the best game play.
No one would want to watch overworked/burnt out players on the court in NBA, same goes for e-sports.
/edit
I agree with you that Idra should have forfeited one for the other if he felt it was making a detrimental impact on his performance. But I'm talking about a middle-of-the-road approach where some concession is made from organizers for the players. It's in everyone's best interest.
|
On June 13 2012 13:56 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea? At what pt did I say it was a good idea to hold multiple events on one weekend? I said is that Idra doesn't have a right to complain when he went into this weekend knowing how brutal the open bracket of MLG was and still decided to participate in WCS. And what I suggested to solve the problem was to make a choice in what tournament he wanted to participate in so he didnt have to play long hours. People in this thread seem to just read what they want to read. I can't imagine that choosing between tournaments is an easy thing for a pro-gamer, who would like to attend as many tourneys as possible. I think they should have held the WCS on a friday or something, or a long-weekend (if you have those in the US) Giving time for players to perform at their peak and provide the best game play. No one would want to watch overworked/burnt out players on the court in NBA, same goes for e-sports. /edit I agree with you that Idra should have forfeited one for the other if he felt it was making a detrimental impact on his performance. But I'm talking about a middle-of-the-road approach where some concession is made from organizers for the players. It's in everyone's best interest.
I think one of the points that IdrA was trying to make was that Blizzard and MLG thought piggybacking the two tournaments together would increase player participation, and be appreciated by players and teams, because they shared a timeframe and location.
Two tournaments, one trip, easy peasy, right? It's a nice thought, but in actual practice it turned the tournaments into one big clusterfuck.
At least that's what I think he's getting at -- with less swearing.
|
On June 13 2012 13:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea? At what pt did I say it was a good idea to hold multiple events on one weekend? I said is that Idra doesn't have a right to complain when he went into this weekend knowing how brutal the open bracket of MLG was and still decided to participate in WCS. And what I suggested to solve the problem was to make a choice in what tournament he wanted to participate in so he didnt have to play long hours. People in this thread seem to just read what they want to read.
you are acknowledging the fact that such scheduling is a legitimate issue, yet forbidding someone to voice it. you then propose players to choose from one or the other tournament as a solution, yet still think that multiple events on one weekend are a bad idea. how about the solution not to hold multiple events on the same weekend in the future? sounds pretty reasonable to me, at least. oh wait, that's exactly what greg wrote!
|
On June 13 2012 14:06 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea? At what pt did I say it was a good idea to hold multiple events on one weekend? I said is that Idra doesn't have a right to complain when he went into this weekend knowing how brutal the open bracket of MLG was and still decided to participate in WCS. And what I suggested to solve the problem was to make a choice in what tournament he wanted to participate in so he didnt have to play long hours. People in this thread seem to just read what they want to read. you are acknowledging the fact that such scheduling is a legitimate issue, yet forbidding someone to voice it. you then propose players to choose from one or the other tournament as a solution, yet still think that multiple events on one weekend are a bad idea. how about the solution not to hold multiple events on the same weekend in the future? sounds pretty reasonable to me, at least. oh wait, that's exactly what greg wrote!
Yes, scheduling two events on the same weekend is a bad idea. If there are two tournaments on the same weekend, you should choose which event you want to participate in so you don't have to deal with the pressure of playing in two tournaments at the same time. This sounds unreasonable to you? I said he doesnt have a right to complain because he knew beforehand what he was getting himself into. He even says in the blog that he heard horror stories of people playing into the morning and yet he still decided to play in both tournaments. If you dont want to have the pressure of playing in two tournaments. Dont play in two tournaments. Why is this so hard to understand?
|
On June 13 2012 14:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:06 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea? At what pt did I say it was a good idea to hold multiple events on one weekend? I said is that Idra doesn't have a right to complain when he went into this weekend knowing how brutal the open bracket of MLG was and still decided to participate in WCS. And what I suggested to solve the problem was to make a choice in what tournament he wanted to participate in so he didnt have to play long hours. People in this thread seem to just read what they want to read. you are acknowledging the fact that such scheduling is a legitimate issue, yet forbidding someone to voice it. you then propose players to choose from one or the other tournament as a solution, yet still think that multiple events on one weekend are a bad idea. how about the solution not to hold multiple events on the same weekend in the future? sounds pretty reasonable to me, at least. oh wait, that's exactly what greg wrote! Yes, scheduling two events on the same weekend is a bad idea. If there are two tournaments on the same weekend, you should choose which event you want to participate in so you don't have to deal with the pressure of playing in two tournaments at the same time. This sounds unreasonable to you? I said he doesnt have a right to complain because he knew beforehand what he was getting himself into. He even says in the blog that he heard horror stories of people playing into the morning and yet he still decided to play in both tournaments. If you dont want to have the pressure of playing in two tournaments. Dont play in two tournaments. Why is this so hard to understand?
i'll break it down for you once more: when something is a problem, you are not allowed to complain about it?
|
I could tell from the interview that it was pretty crazy. I mean Open Bracket MLG is already considered to be the most grueling bracket in SC2... and then to add another tournament as well? Seems silly.
I imagine the worst of it was if you were getting far in both tournaments (i.e. Idra and other good pros) you'd be basically playing twice the amount as the Open Bracket normally... terrible.
Tournaments: GOOD!
Simultaneous: BAD!
|
On June 13 2012 14:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:06 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea? At what pt did I say it was a good idea to hold multiple events on one weekend? I said is that Idra doesn't have a right to complain when he went into this weekend knowing how brutal the open bracket of MLG was and still decided to participate in WCS. And what I suggested to solve the problem was to make a choice in what tournament he wanted to participate in so he didnt have to play long hours. People in this thread seem to just read what they want to read. you are acknowledging the fact that such scheduling is a legitimate issue, yet forbidding someone to voice it. you then propose players to choose from one or the other tournament as a solution, yet still think that multiple events on one weekend are a bad idea. how about the solution not to hold multiple events on the same weekend in the future? sounds pretty reasonable to me, at least. oh wait, that's exactly what greg wrote! Yes, scheduling two events on the same weekend is a bad idea. If there are two tournaments on the same weekend, you should choose which event you want to participate in so you don't have to deal with the pressure of playing in two tournaments at the same time. This sounds unreasonable to you? I said he doesnt have a right to complain because he knew beforehand what he was getting himself into. He even says in the blog that he heard horror stories of people playing into the morning and yet he still decided to play in both tournaments. If you dont want to have the pressure of playing in two tournaments. Dont play in two tournaments. Why is this so hard to understand?
He's not complaining for the sake of complaining. He's complaining so people have a better understanding about how terrible the idea is.
|
wouldn't have expected idra to do a write up. very interested indeed.
|
On June 13 2012 14:18 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 14:06 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea? At what pt did I say it was a good idea to hold multiple events on one weekend? I said is that Idra doesn't have a right to complain when he went into this weekend knowing how brutal the open bracket of MLG was and still decided to participate in WCS. And what I suggested to solve the problem was to make a choice in what tournament he wanted to participate in so he didnt have to play long hours. People in this thread seem to just read what they want to read. you are acknowledging the fact that such scheduling is a legitimate issue, yet forbidding someone to voice it. you then propose players to choose from one or the other tournament as a solution, yet still think that multiple events on one weekend are a bad idea. how about the solution not to hold multiple events on the same weekend in the future? sounds pretty reasonable to me, at least. oh wait, that's exactly what greg wrote! Yes, scheduling two events on the same weekend is a bad idea. If there are two tournaments on the same weekend, you should choose which event you want to participate in so you don't have to deal with the pressure of playing in two tournaments at the same time. This sounds unreasonable to you? I said he doesnt have a right to complain because he knew beforehand what he was getting himself into. He even says in the blog that he heard horror stories of people playing into the morning and yet he still decided to play in both tournaments. If you dont want to have the pressure of playing in two tournaments. Dont play in two tournaments. Why is this so hard to understand? i'll break it down for you once more: when something is a problem, you are not allowed to complain about it?
Most of the problems he's complaining about wouldnt have happened if he didn't participate in two tournaments. He knew beforehand that playing in two tournaments was going to be hard and yet he still played both and decided to complain about it. Just seems dumb to me. The cup of coffee says "beware hot". I know that the cup of coffee is hot and yet I still drink the coffee before letting it cool down and I burn my tongue. Would it make sense to complain to the manager of the coffee shop because I burnt my tongue? Don't think so.
|
The thing is, no North American players will finsih in the money at MLG raleigh anyway, so why waste time and money when they can bring it for a tourney they can win (although there is always an outside shot for HuK)
|
On June 13 2012 14:30 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:18 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 14:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 14:06 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea? At what pt did I say it was a good idea to hold multiple events on one weekend? I said is that Idra doesn't have a right to complain when he went into this weekend knowing how brutal the open bracket of MLG was and still decided to participate in WCS. And what I suggested to solve the problem was to make a choice in what tournament he wanted to participate in so he didnt have to play long hours. People in this thread seem to just read what they want to read. you are acknowledging the fact that such scheduling is a legitimate issue, yet forbidding someone to voice it. you then propose players to choose from one or the other tournament as a solution, yet still think that multiple events on one weekend are a bad idea. how about the solution not to hold multiple events on the same weekend in the future? sounds pretty reasonable to me, at least. oh wait, that's exactly what greg wrote! Yes, scheduling two events on the same weekend is a bad idea. If there are two tournaments on the same weekend, you should choose which event you want to participate in so you don't have to deal with the pressure of playing in two tournaments at the same time. This sounds unreasonable to you? I said he doesnt have a right to complain because he knew beforehand what he was getting himself into. He even says in the blog that he heard horror stories of people playing into the morning and yet he still decided to play in both tournaments. If you dont want to have the pressure of playing in two tournaments. Dont play in two tournaments. Why is this so hard to understand? i'll break it down for you once more: when something is a problem, you are not allowed to complain about it? Most of the problems he's complaining about wouldnt have happened if he didn't participate in two tournaments. He knew beforehand that playing in two tournaments was going to be hard and yet he still played both and decided to complain about it. Just seems dumb to me. The cup of coffee says "beware hot". I know that the cup of coffee is hot and yet I still drink the coffee before letting it cool down and I burn my tongue. Would it make sense to complain to the manager of the coffee shop because I burnt my tongue? Don't think so.
mlg and wcs arent really a choice. ones a massive international tournament run by blizzard that comes with the title "american champion" and the other is one of the major events of the premier non korean league.
its like hosting wimbeldon and the french open on the same weekend and telling players to choose which to play. except here theyre hosted in the same location, which makes it seem like you can play both. the intent of this article is to show why you cant, and that it is just as unreasonable as holding 2 unmissable tournaments at the same time in seperate locations.
|
Canada11363 Posts
On June 13 2012 14:30 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:18 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 14:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 14:06 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea? At what pt did I say it was a good idea to hold multiple events on one weekend? I said is that Idra doesn't have a right to complain when he went into this weekend knowing how brutal the open bracket of MLG was and still decided to participate in WCS. And what I suggested to solve the problem was to make a choice in what tournament he wanted to participate in so he didnt have to play long hours. People in this thread seem to just read what they want to read. you are acknowledging the fact that such scheduling is a legitimate issue, yet forbidding someone to voice it. you then propose players to choose from one or the other tournament as a solution, yet still think that multiple events on one weekend are a bad idea. how about the solution not to hold multiple events on the same weekend in the future? sounds pretty reasonable to me, at least. oh wait, that's exactly what greg wrote! Yes, scheduling two events on the same weekend is a bad idea. If there are two tournaments on the same weekend, you should choose which event you want to participate in so you don't have to deal with the pressure of playing in two tournaments at the same time. This sounds unreasonable to you? I said he doesnt have a right to complain because he knew beforehand what he was getting himself into. He even says in the blog that he heard horror stories of people playing into the morning and yet he still decided to play in both tournaments. If you dont want to have the pressure of playing in two tournaments. Dont play in two tournaments. Why is this so hard to understand? i'll break it down for you once more: when something is a problem, you are not allowed to complain about it? Most of the problems he's complaining about wouldnt have happened if he didn't participate in two tournaments. He knew beforehand that playing in two tournaments was going to be hard and yet he still played both and decided to complain about it. Just seems dumb to me. The cup of coffee says "beware hot". I know that the cup of coffee is hot and yet I still drink the coffee before letting it cool down and I burn my tongue. Would it make sense to complain to the manager of the coffee shop because I burnt my tongue? Don't think so.
Why are you arguing this so hard if you think 2 tournaments on the same day is bad? It's not like this is 2 separate tournaments on opposite sides of the country that happened to have conflicting schedules and people are complaining.
It was 2 tournaments on the same day and coordinated to work around each other. Why is that? Is it perhaps because they were hoping North American players that were competing in the MLG would also compete in the NA tournament? And that's the bad idea. What other reason can there possibly be except to double dip in the same player pool? If it was a matter of you need to choose one or the other, they'd just have conflicting play times or a tourney in another city. By design NA tourney was hoping the player would play in both and by design it was a bad idea.
|
The points idra brought up are pretty valid. All you have to do is go back and look at how Sase looked at the end of just playing MLG. There would be no way he could have played both tournaments and given even close to his best performance.
|
On June 13 2012 14:30 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:18 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 14:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 14:06 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea? At what pt did I say it was a good idea to hold multiple events on one weekend? I said is that Idra doesn't have a right to complain when he went into this weekend knowing how brutal the open bracket of MLG was and still decided to participate in WCS. And what I suggested to solve the problem was to make a choice in what tournament he wanted to participate in so he didnt have to play long hours. People in this thread seem to just read what they want to read. you are acknowledging the fact that such scheduling is a legitimate issue, yet forbidding someone to voice it. you then propose players to choose from one or the other tournament as a solution, yet still think that multiple events on one weekend are a bad idea. how about the solution not to hold multiple events on the same weekend in the future? sounds pretty reasonable to me, at least. oh wait, that's exactly what greg wrote! Yes, scheduling two events on the same weekend is a bad idea. If there are two tournaments on the same weekend, you should choose which event you want to participate in so you don't have to deal with the pressure of playing in two tournaments at the same time. This sounds unreasonable to you? I said he doesnt have a right to complain because he knew beforehand what he was getting himself into. He even says in the blog that he heard horror stories of people playing into the morning and yet he still decided to play in both tournaments. If you dont want to have the pressure of playing in two tournaments. Dont play in two tournaments. Why is this so hard to understand? i'll break it down for you once more: when something is a problem, you are not allowed to complain about it? Most of the problems he's complaining about wouldnt have happened if he didn't participate in two tournaments. He knew beforehand that playing in two tournaments was going to be hard and yet he still played both and decided to complain about it. Just seems dumb to me. The cup of coffee says "beware hot". I know that the cup of coffee is hot and yet I still drink the coffee before letting it cool down and I burn my tongue. Would it make sense to complain to the manager of the coffee shop because I burnt my tongue? Don't think so.
I'm sure he knew how hectic it was going to be, but how can you say it's his fault that he has to play 12 hours with 5 hours sleep because MLG sucks at scheduling? It's not like he knew they were going to fuck up. When someone fuck up, they get talked about. That analogy sucks ass btw. In this case it would be more that the manager promised nicely tempered coffee, but then gives him scalding hot coffee that completely kills his mouth so he can't really use it properly for the next few days
|
I think when two tournaments are happening on teh same day, shit is going to happen. Games will always run late and it is inevitable to run into schedule problems. I understand where idra is coming from. Yeah, it's bad to have two tournaments happening at once, but he doesn't have to join both of them. It's silly for any player to do that because he is actually jeorpordizing his own performance by having to play more games with little to no rest in between.
|
Although I usually tend to disagree with IdrA, I think he is 100% right. It would be absurd in almost every other form of sporting event.
|
I love how people preface their response with, "Usually I hate/disagree/loathe IdrA ... "
He's actually one of the more objective players the community has (when you ignore the BM during games).
|
Idra had no problem with it during SOTG on the eve of the tournament, and he seemed to be expecting to win it. Well he did alright, losing to some smaller players but still placing well, and he completely bombed out of MLG (alongside the rest of his team, and TL for that matter).
I agree with his premise in some ways, but considering he was in the open bracket of MLG he had to practice against all races, whereas if he was in a pool he might have been able to focus entirely on one (or two) races. You could basically consider the MLG open bracket and WCS as one huge open bracket to be honest. It's not like he was playing against a bunch of amazing people.
|
On June 13 2012 15:06 PhoenixDark wrote:
Idra had no problem with it during SOTG on the eve of the tournament, and he seemed to be expecting to win it. Well he did alright, losing to some smaller players but still placing well, and he completely bombed out of MLG (alongside the rest of his team, and TL for that matter).
I agree with his premise in some ways, but considering he was in the open bracket of MLG he had to practice against all races, whereas if he was in a pool he might have been able to focus entirely on one (or two) races. You could basically consider the MLG open bracket and WCS as one huge open bracket to be honest. It's not like he was playing against a bunch of amazing people.
I think IdrA made the gross assumption that MLG and Blizzard where actually coordinated, thoughtful, well-managed tournament organizers.
|
On June 13 2012 11:53 darthfoley wrote:
Glad idra has the balls to speak up
He always was known for being shy about this sort of thing, true. :B
|
I agree with his stance. It doesn't just suck for the players, it sucks for the viewers too. The WCS US Nationals took a major backseating to the main event that detracted giving exposure to the US players, which was the whole point of these WCS going around the world.
I still don't know who daisuki is.
|
i actually agree with idra for once and while i dont think idra or incontrol had a shot in hell of any sort of good result at mlg they were both 2 of the better wcs players and it prolly costed them due to the unreasonable schedule just because blizzard was too cheap to host there own event
|
Not surprising in the least, it was obvious from the beginning that trying to hold two events at once in the same venue was going to be a bad idea.
|
|
|
its a good voice for players concerns, yes idra chose to play in both tournies.. and yes he chose to term with his sponsors...
what the hell is wrong with articulating issues for better of players and casters and viewers?
|
Reminds me of what Stork did recently. Glad to see progamers stepping up and speaking out.
|
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
Yeah to top it off if you looked at the people who are qualified for WCS... lol
|
I think the obvious thing is you book the venue for another day before, get everything set up early, and run WCS that extra day.
There will still be some overlap, but the amount of games you're playing over a 3 day period is now a 4 day period, it should take a lot of the marathon nature out of it.
Unfortunately this probably won't change, I don't have much faith in Blizzard, although MLG does listen to the community, it would be nice to see if we can get through to them.
|
This makes sense. It would be unimaginable to see someone do well in both tournaments. Not only would the scheduling be awful but it would drain the stamina very fast.
|
On June 13 2012 14:32 TommyP wrote:
The thing is, no North American players will finsih in the money at MLG raleigh anyway, so why waste time and money when they can bring it for a tourney they can win (although there is always an outside shot for HuK)
true, unless you are showing previous results that you can compete at MLG level then there is no point in entering when you could play in an NA tourney
|
If nothing else it drastically lowers the quality of the games being played so it's just awful no matter how you look at this.
|
United Kingdom14464 Posts
I feel like I should do a Captain Hindsight picture:
If you play 2 tournaments at the same time...
You're gonna have a big problem
or something along those lines.
|
On June 13 2012 14:30 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 14:18 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 14:13 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 14:06 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:29 rotegirte wrote:On June 13 2012 13:25 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 13:19 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:18 Whole wrote:
Wait, Mrvoodoochild, what about the part of where they don't have a choice. LiFe IsNt FaRe DoOd!!!111!! DeeL wIt iT Ignore the troll. I'm a troll because my opinion differs from yours? People on TL are fucking ridiculous. you are advocating the scheduling of mutliple tournaments on the same date as a general good idea? At what pt did I say it was a good idea to hold multiple events on one weekend? I said is that Idra doesn't have a right to complain when he went into this weekend knowing how brutal the open bracket of MLG was and still decided to participate in WCS. And what I suggested to solve the problem was to make a choice in what tournament he wanted to participate in so he didnt have to play long hours. People in this thread seem to just read what they want to read. you are acknowledging the fact that such scheduling is a legitimate issue, yet forbidding someone to voice it. you then propose players to choose from one or the other tournament as a solution, yet still think that multiple events on one weekend are a bad idea. how about the solution not to hold multiple events on the same weekend in the future? sounds pretty reasonable to me, at least. oh wait, that's exactly what greg wrote! Yes, scheduling two events on the same weekend is a bad idea. If there are two tournaments on the same weekend, you should choose which event you want to participate in so you don't have to deal with the pressure of playing in two tournaments at the same time. This sounds unreasonable to you? I said he doesnt have a right to complain because he knew beforehand what he was getting himself into. He even says in the blog that he heard horror stories of people playing into the morning and yet he still decided to play in both tournaments. If you dont want to have the pressure of playing in two tournaments. Dont play in two tournaments. Why is this so hard to understand? i'll break it down for you once more: when something is a problem, you are not allowed to complain about it? Most of the problems he's complaining about wouldnt have happened if he didn't participate in two tournaments. He knew beforehand that playing in two tournaments was going to be hard and yet he still played both and decided to complain about it. Just seems dumb to me. The cup of coffee says "beware hot". I know that the cup of coffee is hot and yet I still drink the coffee before letting it cool down and I burn my tongue. Would it make sense to complain to the manager of the coffee shop because I burnt my tongue? Don't think so.
Most of the problems would have never occurred if these tournaments were not held at the same weekend. When you are admitting it's a problem, then you can't possibly put the responsibility in the players' hands. Greg is not arguing that he made a bad choice. He does not demand to go back in time and give him a second chance on the games. Greg is arguing that players should have not been forced into such a decision, and that a future change should avoid this situation. If you are disagreeing with him, means players should be constantly put into such a situation. But you already stated it's a bad thing, no?
When all of us, you, Greg, me and virtually everybody else agree that it's a bad thing and should be changed- I really don't see anything to argue about.
|
Everyone knew there would be logistic issues with this. We've seen how MLG has run events in the past. Anyway, water under the bridge. Anything else is just an excuse for poor performance.
|
You shouldn't be putting a player in a position where he has to choose one or the other tournament.
It's no different than if he had to choose to play DreamHack or MLG. You're diminishing competition and the chance of success for a player.
To have him play both or choose one or the other is just silly.
|
you guys complaining about the venue clash, do know that blizzard or mlg (or both) are doing it to cut expenses right?
|
Blizzard needs to step up and introduce some kind of coordinating body to the pro SC scene.
its just getting so big now that these problems are bound to continue if something isnt done.
|
On June 13 2012 22:34 sharky246 wrote:
you guys complaining about the venue clash, do know that blizzard or mlg (or both) are doing it to cut expenses right?
Of course.
|
On June 13 2012 12:38 JazzJackrabbit wrote:
Next up, NASL finals and WCS Canada finals in the same weekend/venue!
Good thing NASL isn't open to everyone. Not to mention, there are only 16 people who make it to the NASL Finals, so at most only 3 people will have to deal with this, not to mention there aren't that many NASL games that are played for each player either. So it should work out a lot better than a MLG + WCS.
The real problem will be WCS NA, which is being held at MLG Raleigh. Yeah, that's going to be just as bad as this one.
|
On June 13 2012 11:56 fortheGG wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 11:51 Whatson wrote:
Normally I'd be inclined to say something like "IdrA, quit complaining, etc." but it was pretty painful watching some of the later MLG games who had just finished WCS games, and Sheth's blog also commented a lot on the difficulty of playing dual tourneys at once, and not knowing when the next match would be played, or who was the opponent. I don't really see how it wasn't obvious that it would be hard to play both, especially when people like Nony skipped MLG to concentrate on the Blizzard tourney. Also we have players like Sase that had to play an enormous amount of games, so I can't say I feel sorry for them.
I dont think its unreasonable for players to be pissed that both they're tournament chances suffered. They have to make money often based on appearing at these events. To be honest if i was a pro player i would have felt i had to take both tournaments because both are of equal importance and given that they were in the same literally the same place you'd think and company that runs the biggest MMO in history and a company that basically runs the foreigner GSL would be smart enough to make sure both tournaments didn't overlap.
|
iNcontroL heard his next MLG match being announced as he was playing the game that knocked him out of WCS.
oh wow T_T
|
On June 13 2012 12:03 Sub40APM wrote:
Seems like a fair criticism. But on the state of the game right before this tournament Idra was excited about the qualifiers because he thought the quality of opponents was crap while the reward for winning the tournament was quite rich. Seems like he either severely underestimated how tired he would be or simply chose to try to win as much money as possible in the same weekend and ended up under performing in the easiest tournament while more or less performing as expected as the MLG.
Th criticism is more than fair and probably well deserved. IdrA went in feeling that the brackets would be easy given the people attending, but he didn't consider that the administration would have no clue what is going on. He mentions in the post that he could not get the appropriate rest he needed because he was constantly in wait to find out who his next opponent would be.
Maybe if the planning had gone a little smoother, then many problems would be eliminated, but even that is uncertain. I'm hoping that Blizzard opts to move their NA event at a different time, so we can see higher quality matches.
|
MLG, Blizzard, you dropped the ball and you know it. How come foreign tournaments always seem to have these weird shitty formats? Talk about legit competition...
|
If they want to keep this two tournies at the same time they should at LEAST put WCS on saturday and sunday. On these days there are less ppl already playing MLG and chances are that on these days there won't be that much stuff to manage. At least less stuff than on the first day of MLG.
But i agree with Idra and Sheth on this one. It's not about excuses to the loss more about the lack of information and the schedule mess.
|
I've never been a big fan of Idra but I must agree with him on that one. Many players seemed exhausted, we heard a lot of complaints about organization and overlapping games, and overall WCS seemed pretty invisible this week-end.
WCS seemed to be a third world tournament like the Namibian Invitationnal. I didn't hear ANYTHING about it except, from the few information casters' of the MLG event would give us once in a while, and the one game I had the opportunity to see on the free stream.
But more importantly, why does Blizzard doesn't support the NA pro gamers?
Lately, there have been a lot of posts and messages complaining about how the Korean players were dominating the entire eSports scene and many people have been asking for special NA events for NA players to shine. And when one of these events finally comes, Blizzard butchers it, doesn't give it the coverage it should get and doesn't provide any support or decent conditions for the players.
Don't know what they think of the NA scene but they really must not like it to give it so little attention ....
|
"Blizzard advertised the opportunity to also participate in the MLG open bracket as encouragement for players to qualify for and attend the WCS finals. Players were in no way discouraged from playing both or told that playing both would lead to an unreasonable schedule or tournament conditions."
I agree with the point made; if possible, the schedule should be reconsidered next time, but I also consider quoted part above to be a bit naïve.
@post above me:
Agree, it's blizzard's fault (almost) no one from NA performs.
|
Then pick a tournament to play in.
Of course it's gonna be hectic/long if you play 2 offline tournaments at the same time.
|
It was kind of weird seeing two tournaments being played at once. The whole time watching it I was thinking of how much of a toll both mentally and physically playing in both tournaments would have on a player.
Glad to see more and more players speaking out about this.
|
I agree with Idra. It's not even that you have two big demanding tournaments back to back, but that they were being run simultaneously. Due to the nature of SC2 where games can vary in length from about ten minutes up to an hour, waiting to play an opponent can lead to delays that cascade into hours. As Idra mentioned, there was not really a level playing field in the condition of the players competing in WCS because those still in the MLG tournament had less time to prepare mentally and physically for their WCS matches. While I will not suggest that this makes some results in WCS invalid, I think no competitor likes to see such disadvantages caused by this simultaneous scheduling of MLG and WCS.
In addition to the points Idra makes about the fatigue and psychological issues, I also think that the WCS being held alongside MLG meant that it was too overshadowed. Sure MLG is bigger but a WCS national tournament for such significant prize money deserved it's own time in the spotlight. Various players had impressive results in the WCS and they deserve recognition and credit for this and yet because of MLG happening simultaneously they do not get the attention they deserve. Throw in the KESPA Invitational and the spotlight becomes even more fleeting. Due to both tournaments being played simultaneously, I think us viewers missed out, because many interesting matches were not streamed as the streams were already showing games. I know this is inevitable to a degree, but without the scheduling the viewers could have seen more of the WCS games and this would have been good for us viewers but also for those pro-gamers who don't really have the chance to get much attention.
There is such a thing as oversaturation of SC2. I love watching SC2 tournaments. However big tournaments like MLG take days. Add in another big tournament like WCS and the KESPA Invitational and it was exhausting. And that was just as a viewer! There were too many games to watch and be fully invested emotionally, with all these competitions. And three different brackets (well actually many more if you include various losers brackets) to keep track of, in order to add context to the games you are seeing. The players need time to recover in between games and tournaments, but so does the audience! I like watching football matches, but I would never watch four complete matches in one day because I would need a break! I think having MLG + WCS + Kespa in such a short duration was too much. With better spacing each could have had more attention and this would have been good for each tournament and the players and the audience. That's just my personal opinion as a viewer.
|
Having to choose between 2 tournaments is horrible. But it should have been clear from the start that they should have. Blizzard/MLG advertised 2 events brainless, EG joined 2 tournaments brainless, and many other pro gamers did the same.
To show you how everybody reacted:
JP brought this up in Sotg and IncontroL anwsered:
You mean I can play more Starcraft? Roflnp.
tldr: Everybody went full retard on this one. No need to blame anybody, just fix it for the future.
|
"This past weekend MLG and the American finals for the WCS were both hosted at the same venue at the same time in Anaheim. I have never played multiple live tournaments over the course of one weekend like this, but I assumed going into the event that MLG and Blizzard were well aware of the potential scheduling difficulties and would be prepared to deal with them. Blizzard advertised the opportunity to also participate in the MLG open bracket as encouragement for players to qualify for and attend the WCS finals. Players were in no way discouraged from playing both or told that playing both would lead to an unreasonable schedule or tournament conditions."
Le me: "wait a minute, idra comments on something to say that it was good? O.o"
"As it turned out they were in no way prepared to handle the situation and it led to a terrible, nearly unplayable event for many of the players who participated in both tournaments."
Le me: "aaah  "
besides.. i dont know whether i should blame the players or the people who organized it. How can viewers (or hell, players) enjoy 2 big tournaments at the same time? im totally overstrained with 2 good games on blue and red stream, how am i then supposed to follow 2 BIG tournaments at once..
|
On June 13 2012 23:51 Sajiki wrote:Show nested quote +"This past weekend MLG and the American finals for the WCS were both hosted at the same venue at the same time in Anaheim. I have never played multiple live tournaments over the course of one weekend like this, but I assumed going into the event that MLG and Blizzard were well aware of the potential scheduling difficulties and would be prepared to deal with them. Blizzard advertised the opportunity to also participate in the MLG open bracket as encouragement for players to qualify for and attend the WCS finals. Players were in no way discouraged from playing both or told that playing both would lead to an unreasonable schedule or tournament conditions." Le me: "wait a minute, idra comments on something to say that it was good? O.o" Show nested quote +"As it turned out they were in no way prepared to handle the situation and it led to a terrible, nearly unplayable event for many of the players who participated in both tournaments." Le me: "aaah " besides.. i dont know whether i should blame the players or the people who organized it. How can viewers (or hell, players) enjoy 2 big tournaments at the same time? im totally overstrained with 2 good games on blue and red stream, how am i then supposed to follow 2 BIG tournaments at once..
+ Show Spoiler +
blame the organizers
|
On June 13 2012 23:50 Koshi wrote:
Having to choose between 2 tournaments is horrible. But it should have been clear from the start that they should have. Blizzard/MLG advertised 2 events brainless, EG joined 2 tournaments brainless, and many other pro gamers did the same.
To show you how everybody reacted:
JP brought this up in Sotg and IncontroL anwsered:
You mean I can play more Starcraft? Roflnp.
tldr: Everybody went full retard on this one. No need to blame anybody, just fix it for the future.
For teams like EG with a ton of sponsors, there really wasn't any choice.
MLG is THE event in NA for them to represent sponsors and the WCS has the potential to give the title USA Champion, which is something missing since WCG so it's understandable why they wanted go to both.
Also there is the chance of someone getting knocked out early and if you just sign up for one tournament then you feel like a moron. If I'm Incontrol I'm not thinking I'll be MLG champ if I focus on just MLG. I guess the mentality going in would be "well if I can play 75-80% of my optimal level in two tournaments then I'll have a better chance of getting decent results."
Incontrol's always been like that. He's someone who would prefer signing up for 10 tournaments in a row rather than focusing on 2-3 so it's not unexpected he would react the way he did.
|
I always enjoy hearing players thoughts on how events went. Everyone seems to be on the same page about how crazy stressful and unorganized the weekend was. I really hope that MLG/Blizzard do a better job with the next event
|
I agree with Idra that didn't receive the content we could have, and also the players had a rough time making it to both MLG and WCS and then trying to perform well
|
On June 13 2012 11:43 fams wrote:
1. The players. The players need rest, they need to be at the top of their game in order to not only perform for themselves and their teams, but for the fans as well. Watching a burnt out IdrA is not the same as watching a rested IdrA. The same goes for any other player or athlete.
i think this is the biggest issue here.
playing in large tournaments takes a lot of stamina, and in a game like starcraft, where the smallest mistake can cost you the game, players need to be at their best to have the best games
|
On June 13 2012 11:51 GreyKnight wrote:
Yeah this is dumb. Blizzard of all people should know
I mean, Blizzard's other choice is to not have the WCS qualifiers at the convenient convenient MLG tourney that weekend. PLus, they can advertise HOTS there too! I understand it's a problem, but it might be one of those problems that are solved by giving Idra a cup of coffee and telling him to buck up. Besides, and this is not a valid complaint, I want to see idra make a post where he's not complaining. As it just so happens, the only time he thinks it is worth posting is when he's complaining.
|
People calm down, this doesn't take anything away from daisuki and vibe.
They did what hey had to do and won their games. It's not their fault other players participated in both tournaments.
However i also believe they had and advantage by playing only one tournament.
It's better if this situation don't happen again tho..
|
I just have trouble feeling sorry for progamers that literally just had to wait or have a match delayed. That's the main compaint. Their getting upset about delayed matches and inconvenient schedules. Darn, all that mental and physical (lol) stress of playing maximum what, 24-30 games in a single weekend AND having less than six hours sleep...... good thing this only happens once every threeish months or these guys might collapse or worse retire... at least they'd quit complaining.
|
Actually this was a big enough event that it actually deserved to get some coverage with casted game etc. When the finals went live at 3 in the morning before the MLG finals it only served to piss me off. I didn't even know who Vibe and Daisuke was, so it was like this super random segment of players I had never heard of doing a series when all I wanted to do was watch the MLG finals.
If on the other hand I had watched Daisuke do this sick run in the brackets beating players like nony, state and idra, I'd be much more interested in watching the finals.
|
On June 13 2012 13:17 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:11 Dosey wrote:On June 13 2012 13:07 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On June 13 2012 12:56 walklightwhat wrote:On June 13 2012 12:50 thealexw87 wrote:
I'm sorry but it's your job! Your path that you chose! Yeah gosh six hours of sleep and oh no, 12 hour days of playing then waiting and then playing sounds so terrible. I know plenty of players out there who would die to be in your shoes, who are working just as hard. And if you really felt that overwhelmed, hey, back out of a tournament; as in, withdraw! And gosh, I think one weekend a month where you have a crazy three days of playing isn't so bad. This goes for Idra, Sheth and all those other pros complaning about dual tourneys. Just because you chose a job doesn't mean you lose the right to complain when a situation is handled poorly. Especially if it prevents you from doing the job to the best of your ability, in fact that's exactly when -any- worker should complain. Idra made the choice to play in two tournaments in one weekend, he has no right to complain about his performance issues. What did he honestly expect? he went into MLG already knowing that he was in the open bracket which is in itself a brutal run and still participated in WCS and he's surprised that he had to play such long hours. I have a solution. DONT PLAY IN TWO TOURNAMENTS AT ONE TIME. Simple as that. It's not like MLG or blizzard are forcing him to play in both at the same time. The problem here is that everyone else has gotten a chance to play their own WCS without this issue. And now suddenly Americans are punished simply because it is convenient for the organizers. So they are faced with a very difficult decision. Do they give up on MLG, where placing and playing in their tournaments play a major role in seeding? Do they give up on WCS, because they would prefer to get that seed in MLG? Or do they try their hand at both and suffer through because both are equally important to their careers? Life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world where everyone doesn't get the same opportunities. As for the bolded part, YES. Make a choice. You're an adult.
This is of course all true but if the tournament organizers gave the impression that no problem, you can participate in both and we will schedule things accordingly then clearly things did go wrong.
Of course, going in to the double tournament you will naturally anticipate it to be very demanding and tiring but if you are given the impression that the organizers will make sure the match organizing and scheduling is done right you can at least be sure that you will not need to be clueless about when your next match is and then wait hours without knowing if you would actually have a chance to eat or take a nap. So in this case I think the criticism was not as much on how difficult it was to play that many games overall but rather on how poorly it was organized and that is definitely a valid point and something that should be impoved on if these kinds of double events are going to be arranged in the future.
|
Tournament was hell for me, had to play till ~2 or 2:30 am on first day and play 9am in the next morning. Mentally exhausted and no time for rest/eat/anything. Lack of sleep impacted my play quite a bit, i will not be playing at mlg if this is how they are doing wcs/mlg next event.
|
I noticed a few people saying stuff about how life isn't fair and people should just put up with it. It's true, life is often like that, but that doesn't mean it's good or that the problems should be shoved under a rug. If MLG and Blizzard allow things like this to happen it lowers the legitimacy of their tournament. How can they say that they crowned the world champion or that this player earned the title when they wrecked over a bunch of the players just from how it was organized? It will always be in doubt, which is something that needs to be avoided.
|
Just to break the norm here a little bit: I've been a fan of IdrA since BW, and when it comes to things like this people shouldn't really be surprised that he's right.
Is he known for complaining about balance? Sure.
Do things get patched pretty often in sc2? You bet.
(Just to encompass the top two, IdrA is known for complaining about terran cheese, guess what now queens have 5 range vs ground to counter early agression, hrm.)
Does he have the intelligence to make educated posts? Check his liquipedia regarding his education find out for yourself.
Why am I going on a rant about this? Kid knows his shit, and he's articulate enough to voice his opinion in a way that isn't just "wah wah MLG is bad wah wah." IdrA doesn't spew how terrible MLG was, he says what he feels they fucked up on, and offers ways to improve the experience.
Even if you don't like IdrA, he's not exactly a lone wolf in this situation when so many other pros and attendees have come forward about the situation.
TLDR: Good post that voices a lot of concerns expressed by other pros/members in the community as well. Also give credit where credit is due.
|
I think this was a bad move on the organizer's part to have WCG and MLG together. Watching a huge tournament like MLG or WCG is to enjoy the story behind it, aka. Sase making it all the way up to semi-final from open bracket first round or MKP vs DRG arch-nemesis battle. But I couldn't really keep up with all of the WCG coverage, and watching the games back and forth made it really incohesive.
It was like trying to watch FIFA world cup tournament and European cup tournament at the same time while the players from FIFA were playing in the other tournament. The players who played in both were overly exhausted and the viewers could only keep up with either just MLG or just WCG. There was too much content for a regular viewer to watch the entirety of MLG and WCG. (I watched like 10+ hours over the weekend, and still couldn't watch much of WCG and only watched some KeSPA tourney)
tl dr; If they were two separate tourneys, they'd garner up more views/have better gameplay. I think KeSPA exhibition matches + MLG would have been sufficient.
|
It wasnt smart for the two tourneys to be ran at the same time. However, it should be no excuse for a players performance. The player should know what he can handle and if players blame the organizers for the loss then they should have not joined both in the first place. Tyler was one that decided on wcs and he did well for himself. He knew what he couldnt do and followed through.
|
Just to break the norm here a little bit: I've been a fan of IdrA since BW, and when it comes to things like this people shouldn't really be surprised that he's right.
Is he known for complaining about balance? Sure.
Do things get patched pretty often in sc2? You bet.
(Just to encompass the top two, IdrA is known for complaining about terran cheese, guess what now queens have 5 range vs ground to counter early agression, hrm.)
Does he have the intelligence to make educated posts? Check his liquipedia regarding his education find out for yourself.
Why am I going on a rant about this? Kid knows his shit, and he's articulate enough to voice his opinion in a way that isn't just "wah wah MLG is bad wah wah." IdrA doesn't spew how terrible MLG was, he says what he feels they fucked up on, and offers ways to improve the experience.
Even if you don't like IdrA, he's not exactly a lone wolf in this situation when so many other pros and attendees have come forward about the situation.
TLDR: Good post that voices a lot of concerns expressed by other pros/members in the community as well. Also give credit where credit is due.Last edit: 2012-06-14 04:18:38
If you bothered to read the rest of the thread you would realize that you are hardly breaking the norm... But I agree with you. This was a horribly coordinated event and blizz and mlg need to change the way they run it.
|
On June 14 2012 04:24 radiantshadow92 wrote:
It wasnt smart for the two tourneys to be ran at the same time. However, it should be no excuse for a players performance. The player should know what he can handle and if players blame the organizers for the loss then they should have not joined both in the first place. Tyler was one that decided on wcs and he did well for himself. He knew what he couldnt do and followed through.
Players and teams earn their livings through exposure in these tourneys. If Idra suddenly decided to not play in MLG he is losing out on potential prize money, exposure for his team through a good preformance etc. . . For many players playing in the WCS this was their one opportunity to go to an MLG because their teams can't send them. They feel obligated to make the most of these opportunities. It is the job of the tournament staff to make sure that players have a reasonable schedule and not force players to choose which tourney to play in or have a ridiculous schedule.
At the very least the tourney must not play matches before they were scheduled. If players have to play a lot of matches then they should be able to know when they are going to be so they can eat and relax between matches.
|
Just to break the norm here a little bit: I've been a fan of IdrA since BW, and when it comes to things like this people shouldn't really be surprised that he's right.
Is he known for complaining about balance? Sure.
Do things get patched pretty often in sc2? You bet.
(Just to encompass the top two, IdrA is known for complaining about terran cheese, guess what now queens have 5 range vs ground to counter early agression, hrm.)
Does he have the intelligence to make educated posts? Check his liquipedia regarding his education find out for yourself.
Why am I going on a rant about this? Kid knows his shit, and he's articulate enough to voice his opinion in a way that isn't just "wah wah MLG is bad wah wah." IdrA doesn't spew how terrible MLG was, he says what he feels they fucked up on, and offers ways to improve the experience.
Even if you don't like IdrA, he's not exactly a lone wolf in this situation when so many other pros and attendees have come forward about the situation.
TLDR: Good post that voices a lot of concerns expressed by other pros/members in the community as well. Also give credit where credit is due.Last edit: 2012-06-14 04:18:38
hold up, you sound like you could be idra's mother.
User was warned for this post
|
On June 14 2012 04:34 Inquisitor1323 wrote:Show nested quote +Just to break the norm here a little bit: I've been a fan of IdrA since BW, and when it comes to things like this people shouldn't really be surprised that he's right.
Is he known for complaining about balance? Sure.
Do things get patched pretty often in sc2? You bet.
(Just to encompass the top two, IdrA is known for complaining about terran cheese, guess what now queens have 5 range vs ground to counter early agression, hrm.)
Does he have the intelligence to make educated posts? Check his liquipedia regarding his education find out for yourself.
Why am I going on a rant about this? Kid knows his shit, and he's articulate enough to voice his opinion in a way that isn't just "wah wah MLG is bad wah wah." IdrA doesn't spew how terrible MLG was, he says what he feels they fucked up on, and offers ways to improve the experience.
Even if you don't like IdrA, he's not exactly a lone wolf in this situation when so many other pros and attendees have come forward about the situation.
TLDR: Good post that voices a lot of concerns expressed by other pros/members in the community as well. Also give credit where credit is due.Last edit: 2012-06-14 04:18:38
If you bothered to read the rest of the thread you would realize that you are hardly breaking the norm... But I agree with you. This was a horribly coordinated event and blizz and mlg need to change the way they run it.
I was only referring to the way I started the post, as the majority have been (as stated previously by someone in the thread) "I normally hate/dislike/disagreewith/etc IdrA" Whereas mine started with "I'm a long time fan."
|
Clashing tournaments? This is such a travesty.
It happens. Pick one or the other.
|
My thoughts exactly. People were telling me that Daisuke and Vibe deserved to be in the finals because they made it and Sheth, Idra, etc got knocked out. But Daisuke and Vibe were too bad to get any meaningful MLG time, so they had the advantage of playing half the games as these guys.
I wish some spectators would pull back their eyelids and stop focusing so much on glam than skill level. Idra is being OUTPERFORMED in many tournaments, not just this one due to "Exhaustion". Yes that's right, I said outperformed. A lot of these "big name" players are only there due to the fact that people put them on a pedestal, which is sad because they don't see a player's real skill. Nothing against the EG players, but if I recall correctly, half of the ones that were in WCS played their games so early on that being "Exhausted" is an excuse at this point, considering they only played a handful of games before they were out of the tournament. These EG players should be dominating these tournaments. They live in a gaming house where all they have to worry about is playing games all day for crying out loud.
Sure, I bet Idra was tired just like all of the other players who played for 13 hours straight, but please, for the love of Starcraft, get off player's jocks because they have a big name and realize that there are "no name" players rising to the top because they have more dedication and passion for the game. Thank you ♥
|
The whole scenario wasn't that great for viewers either. With both events going on simultaneously with the same players and being reported by the same sources I had a hard time even keeping track of who was progressing in what. I don't even deign think about all the high quality match content that got wasted without air time.
|
On June 14 2012 04:43 Inquisitor1323 wrote:Show nested quote +Just to break the norm here a little bit: I've been a fan of IdrA since BW, and when it comes to things like this people shouldn't really be surprised that he's right.
Is he known for complaining about balance? Sure.
Do things get patched pretty often in sc2? You bet.
(Just to encompass the top two, IdrA is known for complaining about terran cheese, guess what now queens have 5 range vs ground to counter early agression, hrm.)
Does he have the intelligence to make educated posts? Check his liquipedia regarding his education find out for yourself.
Why am I going on a rant about this? Kid knows his shit, and he's articulate enough to voice his opinion in a way that isn't just "wah wah MLG is bad wah wah." IdrA doesn't spew how terrible MLG was, he says what he feels they fucked up on, and offers ways to improve the experience.
Even if you don't like IdrA, he's not exactly a lone wolf in this situation when so many other pros and attendees have come forward about the situation.
TLDR: Good post that voices a lot of concerns expressed by other pros/members in the community as well. Also give credit where credit is due.Last edit: 2012-06-14 04:18:38
hold up, you sound like you could be idra's mother.
Hm ... didn't he say on real talk that she does read the forums? ;-) That would be one cool mother.
|
I don't have any sympathy. You train months for major LAN events, start including "dealing with stress" in that regiment if you need too. If this is what progamers have to deal with, it doesn't sound that bad compared to many other things they would be doing if not for an e-sports scene.
|
On June 13 2012 12:03 Sub40APM wrote:
Seems like a fair criticism. But on the state of the game right before this tournament Idra was excited about the qualifiers because he thought the quality of opponents was crap while the reward for winning the tournament was quite rich. Seems like he either severely underestimated how tired he would be or simply chose to try to win as much money as possible in the same weekend and ended up under performing in the easiest tournament while more or less performing as expected as the MLG.
It was actually really sad watching his games. You could see how the fatigue was affecting his play. It's one thing to just not play that well and lose, but that wasn't happening. For example, in his series vs. Daisuki that knocked him out, it was fairly easy to see that IdrA was the better player (if that's statement is too much for you to deal with, at least understand that they were at least even). The losses weren't a result of weaker play than his opponent, but rather HUGE mistakes that are easily attributed to fatigue. In game 1 he built 2 infestation pits and suicided the control group of all of his infestors forcing him to gg out. In the final game, he went hatch first vs. 14/14 with heavy ling/bane pressure. He canceled a bane nest while it was more or less halfway complete and threw down a roach warren and then later cancelled the roach warren and opted for no tech. Low level pros don't make those mistakes so long as they aren't completely exhausted.
|
IdrA with a negative opinion on something? SHOCKING!!!
|
You could make the same argument for Daisuki that he was tired and his mistakes were attributed to fatigue in the Idra series. I believe that two tournaments should not be played at the same time but Daisuki managed through his fatigue to take the win over Idra. Secondly, Daisuki technically played an additional round since Idra got a walkover over ranged. The most disappointing part of WCS was not being able to see a grand majority of the matches. I remember talking with my friends at barcraft on the underrated players in the scene and how I looked forward to seeing how they did but it was not streamed. No story, no drama.
-Daisuki played 4 Bo3 series in MLG before being knocked out which is equivalent to Idra.
|
On June 14 2012 06:18 Witten wrote:
IdrA with a negative opinion on something? SHOCKING!!!
So? he makes a good point, and Sheth wrote a blog and said the same thing. but nobody jumped on his ass.
They both made valid points, but it seems alot of people are like " oh its idra being idra again"
|
On June 14 2012 06:56 SMD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 06:18 Witten wrote:
IdrA with a negative opinion on something? SHOCKING!!! So? he makes a good point, and Sheth wrote a blog and said the same thing. but nobody jumped on his ass. They both made valid points, but it seems alot of people are like " oh its idra being idra again"
Sheth could kick a puppy and he'd still be considered as good mannered...
I'm not a big Idra apologist, but I agree with him. It makes sense from a viewership point of view to have the US nationals with MLG and the Kespa tournament, but the US players were definitely at a disadvantage with having to worry about the nationals and also going through the open bracket.
|
Couldn't be easy on the players playing one game while at the same time worrying about their next game right after...
Sometimes I wonder what's going on with Blizzard, they seem to continuosly make stupid decisions such as this...(and also making maps that are dumb)
|
On June 14 2012 06:48 KingDime wrote:
You could make the same argument for Daisuki that he was tired and his mistakes were attributed to fatigue in the Idra series. I believe that two tournaments should not be played at the same time but Daisuki managed through his fatigue to take the win over Idra. Secondly, Daisuki technically played an additional round since Idra got a walkover over ranged. The most disappointing part of WCS was not being able to see a grand majority of the matches. I remember talking with my friends at barcraft on the underrated players in the scene and how I looked forward to seeing how they did but it was not streamed. No story, no drama.
-Daisuki played 4 Bo3 series in MLG before being knocked out which is equivalent to Idra.
And that is relevant how?
IdrA didn't say he lost in WCS because of the conditions. He even said in the blog that he deals with long gaming sessions better than a lot of other players and that they would actually give him an advantage.
On June 13 2012 23:33 Technique wrote:
Then pick a tournament to play in.
Of course it's gonna be hectic/long if you play 2 offline tournaments at the same time.
And how do you know he has a choice about what competition he goes to?
He is an employee, he doesn't get to do what the fuck he wants just because he is a pro-gamer.
|
On June 13 2012 12:35 LambtrOn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 12:26 NoGasfOu wrote:
Looks like EG is starting to require players not producing results to write and publish something for publicity. I remember QXC did this a lot. Or perhaps Idra felt this was worth talking about. I don't think Idra really needs publicity...
I'm fairly certain EG made Idra write this. But not because of poor results. That's obviously just a pseudo-clever way of saying Idra sucks.
|
On June 14 2012 07:30 TheSwamp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 12:35 LambtrOn wrote:On June 13 2012 12:26 NoGasfOu wrote:
Looks like EG is starting to require players not producing results to write and publish something for publicity. I remember QXC did this a lot. Or perhaps Idra felt this was worth talking about. I don't think Idra really needs publicity... I'm fairly certain EG made Idra write this. But not because of poor results. That's obviously just a pseudo-clever way of saying Idra sucks.
they did not, i wrote it on my own and wouldve posted it as a tl blog if eg hadnt wanted it on our site.
|
boohoo.
User was warned for this post
|
As a fan I found it kind of disappointing. Open bracket and wcs stuff were damn hard to distinguish between even when you could get a good spot to watch those games that weren't on the main stage. It felt like Vibe vs Daisuki came out of nowhere. The weekend was incredible, but this was one of two things I think they really overlooked.
|
On June 14 2012 07:44 robopork wrote:
As a fan I found it kind of disappointing. Open bracket and wcs stuff were damn hard to distinguish between even when you could get a good spot to watch those games that weren't on the main stage. It felt like Vibe vs Daisuki came out of nowhere. The weekend was incredible, but this was one of two things I think they really overlooked.
If you actually watch streams and follow players like Vibe, you'd know that he's been playing quite a bit and has been playing mainly on KR server practicing his ass off
|
They should've had the qualifiers, pool play and all that crap for the WCS offline! MLG fit that one tournament with Naniwa vs NesTea into their schedule quite well as it was only Ro.8.
|
I thought Idra wasn't a blogger kind of guy. Awesome blog post though.
|
On June 14 2012 06:18 Witten wrote:
IdrA with a negative opinion on something? SHOCKING!!!
It's true, IdrA has a habit for being negative. He's been negative about Naniwa's behaviour, Huk's GSL finger-waving ceremony, the lack of early scouting options for Zerg, Ghosts being overpowered, the imbalance of the map pool during beta and shortly after launch, etc.
He also has a habit for being right.
IdrA hwaiting!
|
On June 13 2012 13:10 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:04 RaNgeD wrote:On June 13 2012 12:51 IdrA wrote:On June 13 2012 12:38 RaNgeD wrote:
congrats on your free win to 4th place how can you not show up and then be pissy about it? I'm pissy because I specifically asked an admin what time I should show up for LR8 and I was told 11 am. schedule we were emailed said it begins 10 am saturday bitch at mlg. dont make angsty little posts in reply to my article.
Like when EG Management acted pissy because ostojiyi got a free map win over puma? I didn't see you complain, although otterareneart posted on reddit that it wasn't eg culture. lol
Here is the post:
On June 11 2012 08:43 SilverStar wrote:
That quote from ranged reminded me of something. So just for the record here is EG statement last time Ostojiyi got a 1 map walkover against puma:
"I dont think EG, or any other proteam would willingly give up an advantage like that in such an important match."
Sorry, but I just don't agree with this at all. It's just not true. The larger proteams, who have positive management relationships with each other, very rarely, if ever, force forfeits. If Scott from It's Gosu had been present at the event, I seriously doubt this would've happened. We have a great relationship with him and generally, management from different teams look out for each other.
One thing we in the EG camp are wondering is, why did WBC wait until after the first map had already been forfeited to go and get Puma? Everyone knew that we were scrambling around, searching for him (because we legitimately didn't know where he'd gone), and then WBC went and found him right away. I think it's fair to ask if WBC knew where he was the entire time, or just happened to find him after the first map was forfeited. It's an unpleasant but fair question.
and on the question "don't tell me that you wouldn't want your player take an advantage like that in such an important match."
Seriously? We've never done this to an opposing team's player in an MLG. If anything, the more significant the match, the worse it is to force a forfeit. Like I've mentioned in other posts, large proteams very rarely, if ever, force forfeits. Consider your own team manager's dispute with Check-Six/ESEA in last season's finals. He was so upset because generally, everyone tries to avoid forfeits at all costs and puts forth a good faith effort to play.
I don't think that following the tournament's rules to the letter of the book is mutually exclusive with behaving in an unsportsmanlike fashion. In certain situations, such as this one, they are one and the same. Especially since everyone (MLG admins, my management reps, other people on site) is confirming the same story: that you were basically looking at the clock counting down the seconds until you got a free map.
Bottom line: if Scott had been at the event, he wouldn't have allowed you to do this.
http://reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/rbmde/s_gosuostojiy_defeats_puma_21_to_advance_to_pool/c44jc1c
http://reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/rbmde/s_gosuostojiy_defeats_puma_21_to_advance_to_pool/c44jhjl
Good to see EG living up to their word.
|
is anyone else just kinda sick of idra?
6 months ago if you asked me I woulda said his analysis is almost always correct, but now? He just comes off as an arrogant, biased guy scrambling for any excuse for his disappointing play.
That said, can't stop cheering for him.
|
very rational blog, good stuff. all really undeniable points, especially the part about the emotional stress of knowing you MIGHT have to play, rather than knowing you DO have to play and DO have solid downtime inbetween games.
On June 14 2012 08:01 madgoat33 wrote:
is anyone else just kinda sick of idra?
6 months ago if you asked me I woulda said his analysis is almost always correct, but now? He just comes off as an arrogant, biased guy scrambling for any excuse for his disappointing play.
That said, can't stop cheering for him.
i am growing a bit tired of his bad attitude in terms of gg'ing etc, because i think you need a humble mindset in order to practice/improve most efficiently, but nothing about this blog was uncalled for, arrogant, or biased.
|
Are you serious right now? Because honestly it just looks like you're trying to play some weird game of gotcha, drawing false equivalences between two pretty different occurrences.
|
On June 14 2012 08:02 Vei wrote:very rational blog, good stuff. all really undeniable points, especially the part about the emotional stress of knowing you MIGHT have to play, rather than knowing you DO have to play and DO have solid downtime inbetween games. Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 08:01 madgoat33 wrote:
is anyone else just kinda sick of idra?
6 months ago if you asked me I woulda said his analysis is almost always correct, but now? He just comes off as an arrogant, biased guy scrambling for any excuse for his disappointing play.
That said, can't stop cheering for him. i am growing a bit tired of his bad attitude in terms of gg'ing etc, because i think you need a humble mindset in order to practice/improve most efficiently, but nothing about this blog was uncalled for, arrogant, or biased.
I don't think you need to have a humble attitude, just a rational, even attitude.
|
I don´t get it didn´t idra himself mentioned at IPL3 that stamina issues are not as big as people make it out to be because they are used to grinding tons of games for practice.
However I agree that it should have been separate. People need to remember that Blizzard usually partners up with rxisting organizations so maybe MLG was the only one who stepped up and this is all they could do?
E: Anyways, from all I have read all the problems seem to more organization related rather than the 2 tournaments being at the same time. I guess it could have been better if MLG had been more consistent with their schedule.
|
On June 14 2012 08:03 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Are you serious right now? Because honestly it just looks like you're trying to play some weird game of gotcha, drawing false equivalences between two pretty different occurrences.
That EG just accepted a forfeit without actually giving a damn about fairplay, competition and in the other case giving shit to a player who was actually looking for their player? Yup.
|
On June 14 2012 05:49 crydee wrote:
I don't have any sympathy. You train months for major LAN events, start including "dealing with stress" in that regiment if you need too. If this is what progamers have to deal with, it doesn't sound that bad compared to many other things they would be doing if not for an e-sports scene.
The statements are so bloody stupid. I think IdrA could get more doing Theoretical Particle Physics in the long run (not just now in which he probably makes more) and have much more career stability if he wasn't doing SC and SCII. I hate how people say that people need to suck up the shitty conditions just because they are gaming for a living. It's still a job to them, and you wouldn't want to put up with shit for your job. I'm sure there are tons of people who would kill for their jobs, but those people probably make less and hate what they do. A fair few of these progamers are smart, and could be doing things they don't enjoy as much as gaming for a lot more and with a fair bit more career stability. Several of them have attended, or could attend pretty decent universities and get educations. They game because they still enjoy it, and get compensated in what they believe to equivalent to their sacrifice in stability and pay, and if they want to bitch about how terrible conditions are, they have a right to do so.
This isn't dealing with stress so much as poor work conditions. No one wants to be forced to work ridiculous, overlapping shifts in a performance based job. And tournaments are exactly that, if you wanted to invite an investment of time and training as these tournaments do from their big name attendees... Then you shouldn't mismanage schedules and make it hard to compete to a good enough standard at both. People bullshit about how it's a privilege to compete at a tournament, and the fact that they have a chance at getting some of that prizepool is a favor bestowed upon the players. No, it's their right, as they are the ones bringing in viewers, and their playing is what allows a tournament to occur and viewers to be had and sponsors to be enticed by those viewers. Treat players right for god-sake, they're trying to do their job and being told that they have to run a doubleshift simultaneously.
|
On June 13 2012 23:28 Yorbon wrote:
"Blizzard advertised the opportunity to also participate in the MLG open bracket as encouragement for players to qualify for and attend the WCS finals. Players were in no way discouraged from playing both or told that playing both would lead to an unreasonable schedule or tournament conditions."
I agree with the point made; if possible, the schedule should be reconsidered next time, but I also consider quoted part above to be a bit naïve.
@post above me:
Agree, it's blizzard's fault (almost) no one from NA performs.
Lol, seriously?
NA on generañ has never performed well at MLG. WCS or not.
|
On June 14 2012 08:16 SilverStar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 08:03 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Are you serious right now? Because honestly it just looks like you're trying to play some weird game of gotcha, drawing false equivalences between two pretty different occurrences. That EG just accepted a forfeit without actually giving a damn about fairplay, competition and in the other case giving shit to a player who was actually looking for their player? Yup.
We have no idea how things were handled or how many time passed before IdrA got the DQ but looking at the fact that two tournaments were running at the same time with both players still in it and the fact that Ranged though the game was 1 hour later than it actually was, i don't really think there is a case for bitching.
Especially when you consider that the player involved just refused a walkover against ret in the NASL.
On June 14 2012 08:20 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 23:28 Yorbon wrote:
"Blizzard advertised the opportunity to also participate in the MLG open bracket as encouragement for players to qualify for and attend the WCS finals. Players were in no way discouraged from playing both or told that playing both would lead to an unreasonable schedule or tournament conditions."
I agree with the point made; if possible, the schedule should be reconsidered next time, but I also consider quoted part above to be a bit naïve.
@post above me:
Agree, it's blizzard's fault (almost) no one from NA performs. Lol, seriously? NA on generañ has never performed well at MLG. WCS or not.
Except for the all "winning" 3 of them right?
|
On June 14 2012 07:52 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 06:18 Witten wrote:
IdrA with a negative opinion on something? SHOCKING!!! It's true, IdrA has a habit for being negative. He's been negative about Naniwa's behaviour, Huk's GSL finger-waving ceremony, the lack of early scouting options for Zerg, Ghosts being overpowered, the imbalance of the map pool during beta and shortly after launch, etc. He also has a habit for being right. IdrA hwaiting!
Being negative about P being OP in BW
Being negative of P being favoured in PvZ when P had a less than 50% winrate in the MU
Blah blah blah. Being captain hindsight is not really a good argument.
|
On June 14 2012 07:47 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 07:44 robopork wrote:
As a fan I found it kind of disappointing. Open bracket and wcs stuff were damn hard to distinguish between even when you could get a good spot to watch those games that weren't on the main stage. It felt like Vibe vs Daisuki came out of nowhere. The weekend was incredible, but this was one of two things I think they really overlooked. If you actually watch streams and follow players like Vibe, you'd know that he's been playing quite a bit and has been playing mainly on KR server practicing his ass off
Vibe was impressive. But if you watched IdrA's series against Daisuki, you'd see how ugly it was. Never before has it been more apparent that someone (being IdrA) was completely exhausted during a series.
|
On June 14 2012 08:01 madgoat33 wrote:
is anyone else just kinda sick of idra?
6 months ago if you asked me I woulda said his analysis is almost always correct, but now? He just comes off as an arrogant, biased guy scrambling for any excuse for his disappointing play.
That said, can't stop cheering for him.
Thank you. Someone who is not blind. A lot of these players who have big names and are on big teams are ridiculous. They Lack the dedication and therefore the skills due to the amount of time they put into the game and then make excuses when they lose. The SC community just writes off their poor performances because they performed well in BW or in the early SCII days. It's pretty sad actually. I did not play much BW and sadly wasn't into the pro scene, but I was informed that KESPA teams really only allow the TOP NOTCH players to play. Although there are really awesome players other than players like Flash and Jaedong, they don't play because they aren't on the same level. The SCII community makes this ordeal ok for these players to do poorly in these tournaments because they are put on a pedestal. It's sad when they have all the tools necessary to be top notch players but don't utilize their resources (like the EG house) and then get out performed in tournaments. It's quite irritating actually. It's good to see though that some people are starting to recognize what is going on. Props!
Also I'm not making this statement based solely on MLG / WCS. It's oblivious that some players were fatigued from so many games and little rest, but it's obnoxious when it's one excuse after the next for every tournament is what I'm trying to get at. Push them aside and watch the epic play and dedication that shines from the up and coming newcomers!
|
On June 13 2012 15:42 RaiKageRyu wrote:
I agree with his stance. It doesn't just suck for the players, it sucks for the viewers too. The WCS US Nationals took a major backseating to the main event that detracted giving exposure to the US players, which was the whole point of these WCS going around the world.
I still don't know who daisuki is.
This x10000. I'm mad that NA had an opportunity to see a good chunk of its players on an important stage and instead were relegated to very, very few matches and largely unable to take anything away from the event.
Also, people who are complaining about IdrA in this thread: stfu. Comment on his article or his ideas. Nobody gives a shit if you don't like him or EG.
|
On June 14 2012 08:31 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 08:01 madgoat33 wrote:
is anyone else just kinda sick of idra?
6 months ago if you asked me I woulda said his analysis is almost always correct, but now? He just comes off as an arrogant, biased guy scrambling for any excuse for his disappointing play.
That said, can't stop cheering for him. Thank you. Someone who is not blind. A lot of these players who have big names and are on big teams are ridiculous. They Lack the dedication and therefore the skills due to the amount of time they put into the game and then make excuses when they lose. The SC community just writes off their poor performances because they performed well in BW or in the early SCII days. It's pretty sad actually. I did not play much BW and sadly wasn't into the pro scene, but I was informed that KESPA teams really only allow the TOP NOTCH players to play. Although there are really awesome players other than players like Flash and Jaedong, they don't play because they aren't on the same level. The SCII community makes this ordeal ok for these players to do poorly in these tournaments because they are put on a pedestal. It's sad when they have all the tools necessary to be top notch players but don't utilize their resources (like the EG house) and then get out performed in tournaments. It's quite irritating actually. It's good to see though that some people are starting to recognize what is going on. Props! Also I'm not making this statement based solely on MLG / WCS. It's oblivious that some players were fatigued from so many games and little rest, but it's obnoxious when it's one excuse after the next for every tournament is what I'm trying to get at. Push them aside and watch the epic play and dedication that shines from the up and coming newcomers!
You are a retard.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On June 14 2012 08:38 SmokeMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 08:31 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:On June 14 2012 08:01 madgoat33 wrote:
is anyone else just kinda sick of idra?
6 months ago if you asked me I woulda said his analysis is almost always correct, but now? He just comes off as an arrogant, biased guy scrambling for any excuse for his disappointing play.
That said, can't stop cheering for him. Thank you. Someone who is not blind. A lot of these players who have big names and are on big teams are ridiculous. They Lack the dedication and therefore the skills due to the amount of time they put into the game and then make excuses when they lose. The SC community just writes off their poor performances because they performed well in BW or in the early SCII days. It's pretty sad actually. I did not play much BW and sadly wasn't into the pro scene, but I was informed that KESPA teams really only allow the TOP NOTCH players to play. Although there are really awesome players other than players like Flash and Jaedong, they don't play because they aren't on the same level. The SCII community makes this ordeal ok for these players to do poorly in these tournaments because they are put on a pedestal. It's sad when they have all the tools necessary to be top notch players but don't utilize their resources (like the EG house) and then get out performed in tournaments. It's quite irritating actually. It's good to see though that some people are starting to recognize what is going on. Props! Also I'm not making this statement based solely on MLG / WCS. It's oblivious that some players were fatigued from so many games and little rest, but it's obnoxious when it's one excuse after the next for every tournament is what I'm trying to get at. Push them aside and watch the epic play and dedication that shines from the up and coming newcomers! You are a retard.
No I'm just not blinded by being a fanboy as you clearly are
|
Maybe idra didnt write this as an excuse for his poor results. Maybe it just really pissed him off.
The timing of it couldnt be worse tho.
And i wonder how much rage we wouldve received if idra actually played more than 4 games in the MLG brackets.
|
On June 14 2012 08:39 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 08:38 SmokeMonster wrote:On June 14 2012 08:31 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:On June 14 2012 08:01 madgoat33 wrote:
is anyone else just kinda sick of idra?
6 months ago if you asked me I woulda said his analysis is almost always correct, but now? He just comes off as an arrogant, biased guy scrambling for any excuse for his disappointing play.
That said, can't stop cheering for him. Thank you. Someone who is not blind. A lot of these players who have big names and are on big teams are ridiculous. They Lack the dedication and therefore the skills due to the amount of time they put into the game and then make excuses when they lose. The SC community just writes off their poor performances because they performed well in BW or in the early SCII days. It's pretty sad actually. I did not play much BW and sadly wasn't into the pro scene, but I was informed that KESPA teams really only allow the TOP NOTCH players to play. Although there are really awesome players other than players like Flash and Jaedong, they don't play because they aren't on the same level. The SCII community makes this ordeal ok for these players to do poorly in these tournaments because they are put on a pedestal. It's sad when they have all the tools necessary to be top notch players but don't utilize their resources (like the EG house) and then get out performed in tournaments. It's quite irritating actually. It's good to see though that some people are starting to recognize what is going on. Props! Also I'm not making this statement based solely on MLG / WCS. It's oblivious that some players were fatigued from so many games and little rest, but it's obnoxious when it's one excuse after the next for every tournament is what I'm trying to get at. Push them aside and watch the epic play and dedication that shines from the up and coming newcomers! You are a retard. No I'm just not blinded by being a fanboy as you clearly are
So you don't like IdrA. How does that invalidate his opinions about running the 2 tournaments at the same time?
|
On June 14 2012 08:16 SilverStar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 08:03 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Are you serious right now? Because honestly it just looks like you're trying to play some weird game of gotcha, drawing false equivalences between two pretty different occurrences. That EG just accepted a forfeit without actually giving a damn about fairplay, competition and in the other case giving shit to a player who was actually looking for their player? Yup.
It probably wasn't even up to them at that point, if iDra was there at 10, and ranged wasn't there for an hour, they may have just given him the win without him having to accept.
eg. white-ra at mlg getting a forfeit loss
|
On June 14 2012 08:39 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 08:38 SmokeMonster wrote:On June 14 2012 08:31 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:On June 14 2012 08:01 madgoat33 wrote:
is anyone else just kinda sick of idra?
6 months ago if you asked me I woulda said his analysis is almost always correct, but now? He just comes off as an arrogant, biased guy scrambling for any excuse for his disappointing play.
That said, can't stop cheering for him. Thank you. Someone who is not blind. A lot of these players who have big names and are on big teams are ridiculous. They Lack the dedication and therefore the skills due to the amount of time they put into the game and then make excuses when they lose. The SC community just writes off their poor performances because they performed well in BW or in the early SCII days. It's pretty sad actually. I did not play much BW and sadly wasn't into the pro scene, but I was informed that KESPA teams really only allow the TOP NOTCH players to play. Although there are really awesome players other than players like Flash and Jaedong, they don't play because they aren't on the same level. The SCII community makes this ordeal ok for these players to do poorly in these tournaments because they are put on a pedestal. It's sad when they have all the tools necessary to be top notch players but don't utilize their resources (like the EG house) and then get out performed in tournaments. It's quite irritating actually. It's good to see though that some people are starting to recognize what is going on. Props! Also I'm not making this statement based solely on MLG / WCS. It's oblivious that some players were fatigued from so many games and little rest, but it's obnoxious when it's one excuse after the next for every tournament is what I'm trying to get at. Push them aside and watch the epic play and dedication that shines from the up and coming newcomers! You are a retard. No I'm just not blinded by being a fanboy as you clearly are
The SC community don't write off poor performances. In case you didn't know, we actually call out players that are doing bad all the time (ie. incontrol, idra, jinro, etc).
Can you please tell me how you know those players you mentioned aren't utilizing their resources? Do you have hidden cams at their houses?
The problem I have with your post is that they are ridiculous generalizations based purely from your view of what the pros are doing and your view is pretty limited (non-existent).
|
On June 14 2012 08:43 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 08:39 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:On June 14 2012 08:38 SmokeMonster wrote:On June 14 2012 08:31 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:On June 14 2012 08:01 madgoat33 wrote:
is anyone else just kinda sick of idra?
6 months ago if you asked me I woulda said his analysis is almost always correct, but now? He just comes off as an arrogant, biased guy scrambling for any excuse for his disappointing play.
That said, can't stop cheering for him. Thank you. Someone who is not blind. A lot of these players who have big names and are on big teams are ridiculous. They Lack the dedication and therefore the skills due to the amount of time they put into the game and then make excuses when they lose. The SC community just writes off their poor performances because they performed well in BW or in the early SCII days. It's pretty sad actually. I did not play much BW and sadly wasn't into the pro scene, but I was informed that KESPA teams really only allow the TOP NOTCH players to play. Although there are really awesome players other than players like Flash and Jaedong, they don't play because they aren't on the same level. The SCII community makes this ordeal ok for these players to do poorly in these tournaments because they are put on a pedestal. It's sad when they have all the tools necessary to be top notch players but don't utilize their resources (like the EG house) and then get out performed in tournaments. It's quite irritating actually. It's good to see though that some people are starting to recognize what is going on. Props! Also I'm not making this statement based solely on MLG / WCS. It's oblivious that some players were fatigued from so many games and little rest, but it's obnoxious when it's one excuse after the next for every tournament is what I'm trying to get at. Push them aside and watch the epic play and dedication that shines from the up and coming newcomers! You are a retard. No I'm just not blinded by being a fanboy as you clearly are So you don't like IdrA. How does that invalidate his opinions about running the 2 tournaments at the same time?
Not at all. I actually never said I disagree with what Idra has said in regards to the tourney. If you read what I posted, . It's oblivious that some players were fatigued from so many games and little rest,
It's actually agreeing that the tournament was scattered and ran poorly. Being there seeing players being called to play MLG while still in a WCS match and vice versa was pretty ridiculous.
|
On June 14 2012 08:37 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 15:42 RaiKageRyu wrote:
I agree with his stance. It doesn't just suck for the players, it sucks for the viewers too. The WCS US Nationals took a major backseating to the main event that detracted giving exposure to the US players, which was the whole point of these WCS going around the world.
I still don't know who daisuki is. This x10000. I'm mad that NA had an opportunity to see a good chunk of its players on an important stage and instead were relegated to very, very few matches and largely unable to take anything away from the event. Also, people who are complaining about IdrA in this thread: stfu. Comment on his article or his ideas. Nobody gives a shit if you don't like him or EG.
As I stated earlier, Sheth's blog had a lot of similarties to idrA's, but nobody shits on sheth, i understand idra does some things people don't like, but he makes VERY VALID points in his blog, just because you don't like him doesn't mean hes wrong.
|
in sheth's blog, he wrote pretty much the same thing regarding how poorly coordinated the two tournaments were. so it is was clearly a common sentiment among the players
|
On June 14 2012 08:47 SmokeMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 08:39 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:On June 14 2012 08:38 SmokeMonster wrote:On June 14 2012 08:31 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:On June 14 2012 08:01 madgoat33 wrote:
is anyone else just kinda sick of idra?
6 months ago if you asked me I woulda said his analysis is almost always correct, but now? He just comes off as an arrogant, biased guy scrambling for any excuse for his disappointing play.
That said, can't stop cheering for him. Thank you. Someone who is not blind. A lot of these players who have big names and are on big teams are ridiculous. They Lack the dedication and therefore the skills due to the amount of time they put into the game and then make excuses when they lose. The SC community just writes off their poor performances because they performed well in BW or in the early SCII days. It's pretty sad actually. I did not play much BW and sadly wasn't into the pro scene, but I was informed that KESPA teams really only allow the TOP NOTCH players to play. Although there are really awesome players other than players like Flash and Jaedong, they don't play because they aren't on the same level. The SCII community makes this ordeal ok for these players to do poorly in these tournaments because they are put on a pedestal. It's sad when they have all the tools necessary to be top notch players but don't utilize their resources (like the EG house) and then get out performed in tournaments. It's quite irritating actually. It's good to see though that some people are starting to recognize what is going on. Props! Also I'm not making this statement based solely on MLG / WCS. It's oblivious that some players were fatigued from so many games and little rest, but it's obnoxious when it's one excuse after the next for every tournament is what I'm trying to get at. Push them aside and watch the epic play and dedication that shines from the up and coming newcomers! You are a retard. No I'm just not blinded by being a fanboy as you clearly are The SC community don't write off poor performances. In case you didn't know, we actually call out players that are doing bad all the time (ie. incontrol, idra, jinro, etc). Can you please tell me how you know those players you mentioned aren't utilizing their resources? Do you have hidden cams at their houses? The problem I have with your post is that they are ridiculous generalizations based purely from your view of what the pros are doing and your view is pretty limited (non-existent).
You don't need cameras at their house. There is no such thing as "Skill". You work hard, it pays off. Simple as that. Any NA / EU player could be just as good as koreans by dedicating themselves. Koreans aren't better because they are more skilled, it's because they play "12 hours a day" like idra said in part of his blog, they communicate, they're open to constructive criticism and much more. I'm not bashing your lovely players, I'm being forward about what's going on. You practice hard, you will get results.
|
On June 14 2012 08:50 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 08:47 SmokeMonster wrote:On June 14 2012 08:39 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:On June 14 2012 08:38 SmokeMonster wrote:On June 14 2012 08:31 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:On June 14 2012 08:01 madgoat33 wrote:
is anyone else just kinda sick of idra?
6 months ago if you asked me I woulda said his analysis is almost always correct, but now? He just comes off as an arrogant, biased guy scrambling for any excuse for his disappointing play.
That said, can't stop cheering for him. Thank you. Someone who is not blind. A lot of these players who have big names and are on big teams are ridiculous. They Lack the dedication and therefore the skills due to the amount of time they put into the game and then make excuses when they lose. The SC community just writes off their poor performances because they performed well in BW or in the early SCII days. It's pretty sad actually. I did not play much BW and sadly wasn't into the pro scene, but I was informed that KESPA teams really only allow the TOP NOTCH players to play. Although there are really awesome players other than players like Flash and Jaedong, they don't play because they aren't on the same level. The SCII community makes this ordeal ok for these players to do poorly in these tournaments because they are put on a pedestal. It's sad when they have all the tools necessary to be top notch players but don't utilize their resources (like the EG house) and then get out performed in tournaments. It's quite irritating actually. It's good to see though that some people are starting to recognize what is going on. Props! Also I'm not making this statement based solely on MLG / WCS. It's oblivious that some players were fatigued from so many games and little rest, but it's obnoxious when it's one excuse after the next for every tournament is what I'm trying to get at. Push them aside and watch the epic play and dedication that shines from the up and coming newcomers! You are a retard. No I'm just not blinded by being a fanboy as you clearly are The SC community don't write off poor performances. In case you didn't know, we actually call out players that are doing bad all the time (ie. incontrol, idra, jinro, etc). Can you please tell me how you know those players you mentioned aren't utilizing their resources? Do you have hidden cams at their houses? The problem I have with your post is that they are ridiculous generalizations based purely from your view of what the pros are doing and your view is pretty limited (non-existent). You don't need cameras at their house. There is no such thing as "Skill". You work hard, it pays off. Simple as that. Any NA / EU player could be just as good as koreans by dedicating themselves. Koreans aren't better because they are more skilled, it's because they play "12 hours a day" like idra said in part of his blog, they communicate, they're open to constructive criticism and much more. I'm not bashing your lovely players, I'm being forward about what's going on. You practice hard, you will get results.
And you know they are not working hard, how?
The 100019334543 koreans in code B, they don't work hard?
|
If you want to talk more feel free to PM me. Don't want to step on your fanboy toes in front of everyone and cause a scene
|
On June 14 2012 08:53 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:
If you want to talk more feel free to PM me. Don't want to step on your fanboy toes in front of everyone and cause a scene
I don't know why you keeping calling me fanboy. I am not defending anyone in particular. I'm just saying how ridiculous you sound.
|
On June 14 2012 08:53 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:
If you want to talk more feel free to PM me. Don't want to step on your fanboy toes in front of everyone and cause a scene
troll/flame-baiter alert...
|
IdrA. So funny. So candid. So smart. So handsome.
He really needs to get some sun and a tan if he's going to keep wearing wifebeaters, though.
/counter-troll
|
On June 14 2012 09:03 Defacer wrote:
IdrA. So funny. So candid. So smart. So handsome.
He really needs to get some sun and a tan if he's going to keep wearing wifebeaters, though.
/counter-troll
I think we can all agree on this point.
|
On June 14 2012 09:03 Defacer wrote:
IdrA. So funny. So candid. So smart. So handsome.
He really needs to get some sun and a tan if he's going to keep wearing wifebeaters, though.
/counter-troll
You just don't understand the appeal of pale skin.
|
how about we all just shut the fuck up and let the gameplay decide who's a good player.
obviously its hard to do so when a tournament is so disorganized that a player gets a forfeit if they're called for an open bracket match while they're playing a WCS match and the admins dont know
anytime you have a competitive eSport of any kind, you need competition obv. the only way to make it a legitimate competition is to organize the tournament as to where all the players have to worry about it playing(to some extent). that's what they're here for. they play great games so that the fans will have something worthwhile to watch and its not worthwhile if all the players play like shit cause they're tired.
bottom line -- get your shit together tournament organizers.
|
On June 14 2012 09:05 Xarow wrote:
how about we all just shut the fuck up and let the gameplay decide who's a good player.
obviously its hard to do so when a tournament is so disorganized that a player gets a forfeit if they're called for an open bracket match while they're playing a WCS match and the admins dont know
anytime you have a competitive eSport of any kind, you need competition obv. the only way to make it a legitimate competition is to organize the tournament as to where all the players have to worry about it playing(to some extent). that's what they're here for. they play great games so that the fans will have something worthwhile to watch and its not worthwhile if all the players play like shit cause they're tired.
bottom line -- get your shit together tournament organizers.
Heard that ^^
|
Honestly, what the hell would you expect to happen when playing in 2 tournaments? 2 tournaments = double the matches of one tournament, so if you play for 6-8 hours for MLG normally, then you can extrapolate that to 12-16 doing 2 tournaments at once. You're having to be in the same round in 2 tournaments at once, which means you will most likely have to play them back to back to back, it's not hard to forsee what you're getting into: it's obviously going to be very difficult and draining.
I'm not going to defend the organizers for not discouraging people from playing in both, and there were more than likely decisions that made it harder than it had to be, but saying "I had to play for twice as long as I normally do when I enter tournaments like this, and it took a long time," is just stating the obvious.
|
On June 14 2012 08:54 SmokeMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 08:53 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:
If you want to talk more feel free to PM me. Don't want to step on your fanboy toes in front of everyone and cause a scene I don't know why you keeping calling me fanboy. I am not defending anyone in particular. I'm just saying how ridiculous you sound.
He took some time to write his evaluation of the subject at hand. You took no time to write "You are a retard." I think we are misappropriating the ridiculousness here.
|
On June 14 2012 08:30 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 07:47 sincerelysLeEpy wrote:On June 14 2012 07:44 robopork wrote:
As a fan I found it kind of disappointing. Open bracket and wcs stuff were damn hard to distinguish between even when you could get a good spot to watch those games that weren't on the main stage. It felt like Vibe vs Daisuki came out of nowhere. The weekend was incredible, but this was one of two things I think they really overlooked. If you actually watch streams and follow players like Vibe, you'd know that he's been playing quite a bit and has been playing mainly on KR server practicing his ass off Vibe was impressive. But if you watched IdrA's series against Daisuki, you'd see how ugly it was. Never before has it been more apparent that someone (being IdrA) was completely exhausted during a series.
I want to echo this. That series was really, really ugly. Something like 'donate all infestors, get entire army chain-fungaled to death, build two Infestation Pits, go slow-Roach Nydus all-in, cancel Baneling Nest and die to ling/bling all-in' ugly.
|
I agree with IdrA. I don't think he was being unfair in any way. I'm not sure any of the players thought it was a good idea. However, it all comes down to what makes the most money, and the two companies (MLG and Blizzard) believed that this was the best business model to which to conduct these events. Maybe they agree with IdrA, and will change it next time around. Only time will really tell.
|
On June 14 2012 09:10 deth2munkies wrote:
Honestly, what the hell would you expect to happen when playing in 2 tournaments? 2 tournaments = double the matches of one tournament, so if you play for 6-8 hours for MLG normally, then you can extrapolate that to 12-16 doing 2 tournaments at once. You're having to be in the same round in 2 tournaments at once, which means you will most likely have to play them back to back to back, it's not hard to forsee what you're getting into: it's obviously going to be very difficult and draining.
I'm not going to defend the organizers for not discouraging people from playing in both, and there were more than likely decisions that made it harder than it had to be, but saying "I had to play for twice as long as I normally do when I enter tournaments like this, and it took a long time," is just stating the obvious.
It's not a time issue. He's not complaining about playing for an extended period per se, it's about the timing of the matches relative to one another. Players being called to a match in Tournament B while playing a match in Tournament A shouldn't happen. Matches being scheduled to run until 3:30 AM - Illusion finished his matches on day 1 at 2:30, and was supposed to play Idra after - is not ok, and it's doubly not ok when that's on the first day of the tournament.
The organizers probably could have pulled it off, and going in all the players thought they would.
|
The point, maybe, is to make the tournament organizers aware that the top pros will have to choose one tournament or the other to perform at their best. This fact alone should make it obvious that it can't happen again, or the quality and watchablility (if that's even close to a word) of both tournaments will decrease.
|
On June 14 2012 07:55 SilverStar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 13:10 IdrA wrote:On June 13 2012 13:04 RaNgeD wrote:On June 13 2012 12:51 IdrA wrote:On June 13 2012 12:38 RaNgeD wrote:
congrats on your free win to 4th place how can you not show up and then be pissy about it? I'm pissy because I specifically asked an admin what time I should show up for LR8 and I was told 11 am. schedule we were emailed said it begins 10 am saturday bitch at mlg. dont make angsty little posts in reply to my article. Like when EG Management acted pissy because ostojiyi got a free map win over puma? I didn't see you complain, although otterareneart posted on reddit that it wasn't eg culture. lol Here is the post: On June 11 2012 08:43 SilverStar wrote:That quote from ranged reminded me of something. So just for the record here is EG statement last time Ostojiyi got a 1 map walkover against puma: Show nested quote +"I dont think EG, or any other proteam would willingly give up an advantage like that in such an important match."
Sorry, but I just don't agree with this at all. It's just not true. The larger proteams, who have positive management relationships with each other, very rarely, if ever, force forfeits. If Scott from It's Gosu had been present at the event, I seriously doubt this would've happened. We have a great relationship with him and generally, management from different teams look out for each other.
One thing we in the EG camp are wondering is, why did WBC wait until after the first map had already been forfeited to go and get Puma? Everyone knew that we were scrambling around, searching for him (because we legitimately didn't know where he'd gone), and then WBC went and found him right away. I think it's fair to ask if WBC knew where he was the entire time, or just happened to find him after the first map was forfeited. It's an unpleasant but fair question.
and on the question "don't tell me that you wouldn't want your player take an advantage like that in such an important match." Show nested quote +Seriously? We've never done this to an opposing team's player in an MLG. If anything, the more significant the match, the worse it is to force a forfeit. Like I've mentioned in other posts, large proteams very rarely, if ever, force forfeits. Consider your own team manager's dispute with Check-Six/ESEA in last season's finals. He was so upset because generally, everyone tries to avoid forfeits at all costs and puts forth a good faith effort to play.
I don't think that following the tournament's rules to the letter of the book is mutually exclusive with behaving in an unsportsmanlike fashion. In certain situations, such as this one, they are one and the same. Especially since everyone (MLG admins, my management reps, other people on site) is confirming the same story: that you were basically looking at the clock counting down the seconds until you got a free map.
Bottom line: if Scott had been at the event, he wouldn't have allowed you to do this. http://reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/rbmde/s_gosuostojiy_defeats_puma_21_to_advance_to_pool/c44jc1chttp://reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/rbmde/s_gosuostojiy_defeats_puma_21_to_advance_to_pool/c44jhjlGood to see EG living up to their word.
Ha...
Wow, yeah that's actually fucked. I bolded the parts I thought were especially hilarious.
|
Not an idra fan. But he's right, this is preeetty silly.
|
On June 14 2012 09:27 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 07:55 SilverStar wrote:On June 13 2012 13:10 IdrA wrote:On June 13 2012 13:04 RaNgeD wrote:On June 13 2012 12:51 IdrA wrote:On June 13 2012 12:38 RaNgeD wrote:
congrats on your free win to 4th place how can you not show up and then be pissy about it? I'm pissy because I specifically asked an admin what time I should show up for LR8 and I was told 11 am. schedule we were emailed said it begins 10 am saturday bitch at mlg. dont make angsty little posts in reply to my article. Like when EG Management acted pissy because ostojiyi got a free map win over puma? I didn't see you complain, although otterareneart posted on reddit that it wasn't eg culture. lol Here is the post: On June 11 2012 08:43 SilverStar wrote:That quote from ranged reminded me of something. So just for the record here is EG statement last time Ostojiyi got a 1 map walkover against puma: "I dont think EG, or any other proteam would willingly give up an advantage like that in such an important match."
Sorry, but I just don't agree with this at all. It's just not true. The larger proteams, who have positive management relationships with each other, very rarely, if ever, force forfeits. If Scott from It's Gosu had been present at the event, I seriously doubt this would've happened. We have a great relationship with him and generally, management from different teams look out for each other.
One thing we in the EG camp are wondering is, why did WBC wait until after the first map had already been forfeited to go and get Puma? Everyone knew that we were scrambling around, searching for him (because we legitimately didn't know where he'd gone), and then WBC went and found him right away. I think it's fair to ask if WBC knew where he was the entire time, or just happened to find him after the first map was forfeited. It's an unpleasant but fair question.
and on the question "don't tell me that you wouldn't want your player take an advantage like that in such an important match." Seriously? We've never done this to an opposing team's player in an MLG. If anything, the more significant the match, the worse it is to force a forfeit. Like I've mentioned in other posts, large proteams very rarely, if ever, force forfeits. Consider your own team manager's dispute with Check-Six/ESEA in last season's finals. He was so upset because generally, everyone tries to avoid forfeits at all costs and puts forth a good faith effort to play.
I don't think that following the tournament's rules to the letter of the book is mutually exclusive with behaving in an unsportsmanlike fashion. In certain situations, such as this one, they are one and the same. Especially since everyone (MLG admins, my management reps, other people on site) is confirming the same story: that you were basically looking at the clock counting down the seconds until you got a free map.
Bottom line: if Scott had been at the event, he wouldn't have allowed you to do this. http://reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/rbmde/s_gosuostojiy_defeats_puma_21_to_advance_to_pool/c44jc1chttp://reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/rbmde/s_gosuostojiy_defeats_puma_21_to_advance_to_pool/c44jhjlGood to see EG living up to their word. Ha... Wow, yeah that's actually fucked. I bolded the parts I thought were especially hilarious.
Are you for serious? The two situations aren't equivalent, and neither are related to the topic.
|
I like how he calls MLG "one of the major events outside of the premeire non korean league". Because there is only like, 3 MLGs this year, right? lolololololololololololololol
If someone actually cared enough to look them up, I bet a fair amount of pros have had to prioritize which tournament to attend. I remember Socke missed out on an MLG either this year or last year to do the WCG qualifiers for Germany I think. Was in some interview.
Naniwa missed last MLG because he played in GSL. Obviously a ro16/8 spot is 1000000000000000x better than an MLG, but its all about prioritizing. Which tournament is more important? WCS? Start preparing for that one then, instead of just assuming you can play both fine. Especially in Idra's case, considering how poorly he performs lately.
|
On June 14 2012 15:11 Cloud9157 wrote:
I like how he calls MLG "one of the major events outside of the premeire non korean league". Because there is only like, 3 MLGs this year, right? lolololololololololololololol
If someone actually cared enough to look them up, I bet a fair amount of pros have had to prioritize which tournament to attend. I remember Socke missed out on an MLG either this year or last year to do the WCG qualifiers for Germany I think. Was in some interview.
Naniwa missed last MLG because he played in GSL. Obviously a ro16/8 spot is 1000000000000000x better than an MLG, but its all about prioritizing. Which tournament is more important? WCS? Start preparing for that one then, instead of just assuming you can play both fine. Especially in Idra's case, considering how poorly he performs lately.
Aren't you missing the fact that Socke and Naniwa are not from the US? Kinda hard to be physically at two places at the same time, no? Last time I checked, MLG and WCS US happened to be at the same venue
|
well after they made the prizepool so ridiculous for a just USA tournament they probably didn't want to waste any more money on a venue so they decided to hold it at MLG
they could have just made a smaller prize pool (like half) and get an extra venue instead and then idra would probably have cried too because "there are so many tournaments in such a short time and there is no way to prepare for all of them properly. And the prize money is way too low too...."
If it is too much for him to play in both tournaments at the same time then he should just focus on the NA finals where he actually has a chance (considering the player pool) instead of competing in MLG too where he doesn't make it through the open bracket and feels too stressed to do well in the WCS
|
IdrA takes the time to write a thoughtful and honest piece about an important issue in the scene and some people decide to act like losers about it. After all this time, the internet still amazes me.
|
On June 14 2012 15:22 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 15:11 Cloud9157 wrote:
I like how he calls MLG "one of the major events outside of the premeire non korean league". Because there is only like, 3 MLGs this year, right? lolololololololololololololol
If someone actually cared enough to look them up, I bet a fair amount of pros have had to prioritize which tournament to attend. I remember Socke missed out on an MLG either this year or last year to do the WCG qualifiers for Germany I think. Was in some interview.
Naniwa missed last MLG because he played in GSL. Obviously a ro16/8 spot is 1000000000000000x better than an MLG, but its all about prioritizing. Which tournament is more important? WCS? Start preparing for that one then, instead of just assuming you can play both fine. Especially in Idra's case, considering how poorly he performs lately. Aren't you missing the fact that Socke and Naniwa are not from the US? Kinda hard to be physically at two places at the same time, no? Last time I checked, MLG and WCS US happened to be at the same venue
That is true, but it also goes back to prioritizing.
WCS sounds like it was more important to Idra than MLG, but how did he honestly expect to be able to do both at the same time?
|
I know this is totally random but:
![[image loading]](http://evilgeniuses.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/idra-mlgraleigh.jpg)
Doesn't it look like he's playing with his left hand on the mouse here?
|
Idra does have a reputation for whining about things. However, I think he has some valid criticism for the organizers of this tournament. If someone had asked my advice on trying to run two separate tournaments at the same time, I would have strictly advised against it. Even if you think you have the scheduling set so that participation in both events seems likely, the lengths of the games aren't set, and you might not be able to guarantee that a player can appear at both match times without delaying one of the two tournaments.
I think that it's best to use the mantra that simpler is better. Instead of trying to implement a very complicated system where players manage to play both brackets, the tournament organizers could have saved themselves alot of headaches (from the organizational standpoint, at least) if they just ran tournaments on two separate weekends, OR ran the entire WCS tournament on the thursday before or monday after MLG to avoid confusion.
This doesn't mean that players shouldn't be responsible for managing their own schedules appropriately, but, at the same time, tournaments should try to make things easier for the players rather than harder.
|
On June 14 2012 15:29 Clazziquai10 wrote:I know this is totally random but: Doesn't it look like he's playing with his left hand on the mouse here?
Obviously the picture was just reversed. Look at the game itself.
|
That was a great blog, really well written and objective. It frustrates me when you see people just lashing out at the event/organisers without providing any substantial advice, so this was refreshing.
|
Well written Idra. It was very professionally done and I think Blizzard needs to start thinking of the actual pros and their schedule instead of just looking at it as profit margin.
|
I don't get it how did a thread about some pretty legit points devolve in fanboy drooling and Idra and Blizzard bashing?
Idra, while he has a history of whining makes some clear and concise points about the(lack of) organization of the tournament organizers. Blizzard from what it seems outsourced everything to MLG and in this case(the terrible organization) lies on MLGs fault(O think they filled the event too much with so many stuff).If MLG couldn't handle the 2 tournaments then they should have declined the job.
I dont even understand why this thread turned out this crappy...
|
On June 14 2012 16:30 windsupernova wrote:
I don't get it how did a thread about some pretty legit points devolve in fanboy drooling and Idra and Blizzard bashing?
Idra, while he has a history of whining makes some clear and concise points about the(lack of) organization of the tournament organizers. Blizzard from what it seems outsourced everything to MLG and in this case(the terrible organization) lies on MLGs fault(O think they filled the event too much with so many stuff).If MLG couldn't handle the 2 tournaments then they should have declined the job.
I dont even understand why this thread turned out this crappy...
MLG did run both tourneys fine. I didn't hear about any players that only played MLG complain.
The trouble was with players that tried to compete in both tournaments. I guess it was up to them to decide whether they could be competitive in both. There are plenty of cases in other sports(including e-sports) where individuals/teams need to make choices like these. I disagree that the both are unmissable, as there have been plenty of examples of people choosing other tourneys over MLG for whatever reason.
But I agree with you, the thread could have a bit more genuine discussion about tournament scheduling/organization rather than personal attacks (without basis).
|
On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 16:30 windsupernova wrote:
I don't get it how did a thread about some pretty legit points devolve in fanboy drooling and Idra and Blizzard bashing?
Idra, while he has a history of whining makes some clear and concise points about the(lack of) organization of the tournament organizers. Blizzard from what it seems outsourced everything to MLG and in this case(the terrible organization) lies on MLGs fault(O think they filled the event too much with so many stuff).If MLG couldn't handle the 2 tournaments then they should have declined the job.
I dont even understand why this thread turned out this crappy...
MLG did run both tourneys fine. I didn't hear about any players that only played MLG complain. The trouble was with players that tried to compete in both tournaments. I guess it was up to them to decide whether they could be competitive in both. There are plenty of cases in other sports(including e-sports) where individuals/teams need to make choices like these. But I agree with you, the thread could have a bit more genuine discussion about tournament scheduling/organization rather than personal attacks (without basis).
If they had warned players that it might not be a good idea to play in both, then the onus would be more on the players. But they explicitly promoted that playing both tournaments would be okay (obviously, as they want the top players in both to draw the viewership), which was clearly incorrect.
|
On June 14 2012 21:26 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:On June 14 2012 16:30 windsupernova wrote:
I don't get it how did a thread about some pretty legit points devolve in fanboy drooling and Idra and Blizzard bashing?
Idra, while he has a history of whining makes some clear and concise points about the(lack of) organization of the tournament organizers. Blizzard from what it seems outsourced everything to MLG and in this case(the terrible organization) lies on MLGs fault(O think they filled the event too much with so many stuff).If MLG couldn't handle the 2 tournaments then they should have declined the job.
I dont even understand why this thread turned out this crappy...
MLG did run both tourneys fine. I didn't hear about any players that only played MLG complain. The trouble was with players that tried to compete in both tournaments. I guess it was up to them to decide whether they could be competitive in both. There are plenty of cases in other sports(including e-sports) where individuals/teams need to make choices like these. But I agree with you, the thread could have a bit more genuine discussion about tournament scheduling/organization rather than personal attacks (without basis). If they had warned players that it might not be a good idea to play in both, then the onus would be more on the players. But they explicitly promoted that playing both tournaments would be okay (obviously, as they want the top players in both to draw the viewership), which was clearly incorrect.
I understand that they said playing in both tournaments would be okay. I guess its similar to when you have different leagues of football running at the same time. Some team that is part of both could play in all games, but its the case that a lot of times to spare players they will play with a reserve team. I guess since this is individual sport the player of their managers need to figure it out if they can cope with the ridiculous amount of games.
To be honest. I'm surprised that Idra is complaining, I think it was in a Inside the Game last week that he thought this schedule would work for his advantage as he was used to playing more. Maybe MLG and players should think more carefully about this over-schedule tournaments running at the same time in future.
|
On June 14 2012 21:36 Scheme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 21:26 FairForever wrote:On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:On June 14 2012 16:30 windsupernova wrote:
I don't get it how did a thread about some pretty legit points devolve in fanboy drooling and Idra and Blizzard bashing?
Idra, while he has a history of whining makes some clear and concise points about the(lack of) organization of the tournament organizers. Blizzard from what it seems outsourced everything to MLG and in this case(the terrible organization) lies on MLGs fault(O think they filled the event too much with so many stuff).If MLG couldn't handle the 2 tournaments then they should have declined the job.
I dont even understand why this thread turned out this crappy...
MLG did run both tourneys fine. I didn't hear about any players that only played MLG complain. The trouble was with players that tried to compete in both tournaments. I guess it was up to them to decide whether they could be competitive in both. There are plenty of cases in other sports(including e-sports) where individuals/teams need to make choices like these. But I agree with you, the thread could have a bit more genuine discussion about tournament scheduling/organization rather than personal attacks (without basis). If they had warned players that it might not be a good idea to play in both, then the onus would be more on the players. But they explicitly promoted that playing both tournaments would be okay (obviously, as they want the top players in both to draw the viewership), which was clearly incorrect. I understand that they said playing in both tournaments would be okay. I guess its similar to when you have different leagues of football running at the same time. Some team that is part of both could play in all games, but its the case that a lot of times to spare players they will play with a reserve team. I guess since this is individual sport the player of their managers need to figure it out if they can cope with the ridiculous amount of games. To be honest. I'm surprised that Idra is complaining, I think it was in a Inside the Game last week that he thought this schedule would work for his advantage as he was used to playing more. Maybe MLG and players should think more carefully about this over-schedule tournaments running at the same time in future.
You didn't read the article I guess. Idra clearly says in it that in theory this kind of scheduling should have favoured him BUT, because it was SOOOO heavy (like much heavier than anything he experienced in Korean Pro Gamer's Houses), even him couldn't make anything good with it.
Moreover, it's not because something is favouring you that it's necesseraly good. Such scheduling is bad because it's not well rounded at all, players spend a lot of time waiting for stuff they don't know when are gonna happen (therefore this time is wasted) and organizers couldn't even give them hints on what to expect or when they were gonna play. Once again, Idra being able to somehow take advantage of this situation doesn't make it a good situation.
It's bad for everyone, just a little less for him.
|
On June 14 2012 21:55 Emix_Squall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 21:36 Scheme wrote:On June 14 2012 21:26 FairForever wrote:On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:On June 14 2012 16:30 windsupernova wrote:
I don't get it how did a thread about some pretty legit points devolve in fanboy drooling and Idra and Blizzard bashing?
Idra, while he has a history of whining makes some clear and concise points about the(lack of) organization of the tournament organizers. Blizzard from what it seems outsourced everything to MLG and in this case(the terrible organization) lies on MLGs fault(O think they filled the event too much with so many stuff).If MLG couldn't handle the 2 tournaments then they should have declined the job.
I dont even understand why this thread turned out this crappy...
MLG did run both tourneys fine. I didn't hear about any players that only played MLG complain. The trouble was with players that tried to compete in both tournaments. I guess it was up to them to decide whether they could be competitive in both. There are plenty of cases in other sports(including e-sports) where individuals/teams need to make choices like these. But I agree with you, the thread could have a bit more genuine discussion about tournament scheduling/organization rather than personal attacks (without basis). If they had warned players that it might not be a good idea to play in both, then the onus would be more on the players. But they explicitly promoted that playing both tournaments would be okay (obviously, as they want the top players in both to draw the viewership), which was clearly incorrect. I understand that they said playing in both tournaments would be okay. I guess its similar to when you have different leagues of football running at the same time. Some team that is part of both could play in all games, but its the case that a lot of times to spare players they will play with a reserve team. I guess since this is individual sport the player of their managers need to figure it out if they can cope with the ridiculous amount of games. To be honest. I'm surprised that Idra is complaining, I think it was in a Inside the Game last week that he thought this schedule would work for his advantage as he was used to playing more. Maybe MLG and players should think more carefully about this over-schedule tournaments running at the same time in future. You didn't read the article I guess. Idra clearly says in it that in theory this kind of scheduling should have favoured him BUT, because it was SOOOO heavy (like much heavier than anything he experienced in Korean Pro Gamer's Houses), even him couldn't make anything good with it. Moreover, it's not because something is favouring you that it's necesseraly good. Such scheduling is bad because it's not well rounded at all, players spend a lot of time waiting for stuff they don't know when are gonna happen (therefore this time is wasted) and organizers couldn't even give them hints on what to expect or when they were gonna play. Once again, Idra being able to somehow take advantage of this situation doesn't make it a good situation. It's bad for everyone, just a little less for him.
I don't mean to sound pissy but you are making assumptions here:
- I did read the article. I imagine the reason you thought I didn't is because I said:
I'm surprised that Idra is complaining, I think it was in a Inside the Game last week that he thought this schedule would work for his advantage as he was used to playing more.
This is simply because, out of all the players, I imagined, due to his reputation, he would've not struggle with a heavy(even crazy) schedule.
- I never said it was good, in fact I prefer the GSL format over any other tournament as it allows the players to be(in theory) as rested as possible. I was just remarking players need to think more carefully about entering these doubled scheduled tournaments as it means a lot more games.
|
|
|
United States994 Posts
On June 14 2012 21:26 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:On June 14 2012 16:30 windsupernova wrote:
I don't get it how did a thread about some pretty legit points devolve in fanboy drooling and Idra and Blizzard bashing?
Idra, while he has a history of whining makes some clear and concise points about the(lack of) organization of the tournament organizers. Blizzard from what it seems outsourced everything to MLG and in this case(the terrible organization) lies on MLGs fault(O think they filled the event too much with so many stuff).If MLG couldn't handle the 2 tournaments then they should have declined the job.
I dont even understand why this thread turned out this crappy...
MLG did run both tourneys fine. I didn't hear about any players that only played MLG complain. The trouble was with players that tried to compete in both tournaments. I guess it was up to them to decide whether they could be competitive in both. There are plenty of cases in other sports(including e-sports) where individuals/teams need to make choices like these. But I agree with you, the thread could have a bit more genuine discussion about tournament scheduling/organization rather than personal attacks (without basis). If they had warned players that it might not be a good idea to play in both, then the onus would be more on the players. But they explicitly promoted that playing both tournaments would be okay (obviously, as they want the top players in both to draw the viewership), which was clearly incorrect.
To be clear, every single player in the WCS was offered a spot in the MLG tournament via email. With that invitation they were also warned of the rigorous schedule. Some players decided to do both, others like Nony decided to focus on one event or the other. The players that chose to compete in both, Idra included, were warned in advance of schedule ramifications.
Also, the Friday schedule ended at 1:32 AM, 2 minutes past schedule, not 2:30 AM.
|
I don't know what you want to show with that picture.
I only see Idra giving the thumbs up to DRG for beating Alica
|
On June 15 2012 05:39 MLG_Adam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 21:26 FairForever wrote:On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:On June 14 2012 16:30 windsupernova wrote:
I don't get it how did a thread about some pretty legit points devolve in fanboy drooling and Idra and Blizzard bashing?
Idra, while he has a history of whining makes some clear and concise points about the(lack of) organization of the tournament organizers. Blizzard from what it seems outsourced everything to MLG and in this case(the terrible organization) lies on MLGs fault(O think they filled the event too much with so many stuff).If MLG couldn't handle the 2 tournaments then they should have declined the job.
I dont even understand why this thread turned out this crappy...
MLG did run both tourneys fine. I didn't hear about any players that only played MLG complain. The trouble was with players that tried to compete in both tournaments. I guess it was up to them to decide whether they could be competitive in both. There are plenty of cases in other sports(including e-sports) where individuals/teams need to make choices like these. But I agree with you, the thread could have a bit more genuine discussion about tournament scheduling/organization rather than personal attacks (without basis). If they had warned players that it might not be a good idea to play in both, then the onus would be more on the players. But they explicitly promoted that playing both tournaments would be okay (obviously, as they want the top players in both to draw the viewership), which was clearly incorrect. To be clear, every single player in the WCS was offered a spot in the MLG tournament via email. With that invitation they were also warned of the rigorous schedule. Some players decided to do both, others like Nony decided to focus on one event or the other. The players that chose to compete in both, Idra included, were warned in advance of schedule ramifications. Also, the Friday schedule ended at 1:32 AM, 2 minutes past schedule, not 2:30 AM.
Idra says you encouraged them to play both, you say you warned them about playing both. Who's right?
|
United States994 Posts
On June 15 2012 05:44 Xiron wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 05:39 MLG_Adam wrote:On June 14 2012 21:26 FairForever wrote:On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:On June 14 2012 16:30 windsupernova wrote:
I don't get it how did a thread about some pretty legit points devolve in fanboy drooling and Idra and Blizzard bashing?
Idra, while he has a history of whining makes some clear and concise points about the(lack of) organization of the tournament organizers. Blizzard from what it seems outsourced everything to MLG and in this case(the terrible organization) lies on MLGs fault(O think they filled the event too much with so many stuff).If MLG couldn't handle the 2 tournaments then they should have declined the job.
I dont even understand why this thread turned out this crappy...
MLG did run both tourneys fine. I didn't hear about any players that only played MLG complain. The trouble was with players that tried to compete in both tournaments. I guess it was up to them to decide whether they could be competitive in both. There are plenty of cases in other sports(including e-sports) where individuals/teams need to make choices like these. But I agree with you, the thread could have a bit more genuine discussion about tournament scheduling/organization rather than personal attacks (without basis). If they had warned players that it might not be a good idea to play in both, then the onus would be more on the players. But they explicitly promoted that playing both tournaments would be okay (obviously, as they want the top players in both to draw the viewership), which was clearly incorrect. To be clear, every single player in the WCS was offered a spot in the MLG tournament via email. With that invitation they were also warned of the rigorous schedule. Some players decided to do both, others like Nony decided to focus on one event or the other. The players that chose to compete in both, Idra included, were warned in advance of schedule ramifications. Also, the Friday schedule ended at 1:32 AM, 2 minutes past schedule, not 2:30 AM. Idra says you encouraged them to play both, you say you warned them about playing both. Who's right?
Of course we encouraged them to play. Greg is an incredible player, we wanted the best to play in both. However, they were warned that the schedule would be long and arduous.
Greg nor myself said anything incorrect in anything that is being said (other than the schedule running until 2:30AM)
|
Lol, I see a bunch of people cheering for the winner, except idra that looks kinda sad, don't you think?
But maybe I am wrong...
Egomancer
|
Still, making WCS Wednesday-Thursday and MLG Friday-Sunday would have been the choice to do.
|
On June 15 2012 05:53 Pimpmuckl wrote:
Still, making WCS Wednesday-Thursday and MLG Friday-Sunday would have been the choice to do.
The holy purpose was to cut costs imo, which this solution does not ;D
|
On June 15 2012 05:49 Egomancer wrote:
Lol, I see a bunch of people cheering for the winner, except idra that looks kinda sad, don't you think?
But maybe I am wrong...
Egomancer
Idra wanted Alicia to beat DRG. That is clear.
|
He is under absolutely no obligation to play in both events. Bonehead decision to schedule both the same weekend by blizz/MLG.
Total cop out excuse by idra. If you can't play both, play one and don't rely on the other one as an excuse when you get bounced.
|
It's definitely ideal to host the tournaments on separate days, but since I know nothing about blizzards finances [except they made about 220 billion with WoW] I can't judge what's best overall.
|
On June 15 2012 05:47 MLG_Adam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 05:44 Xiron wrote:On June 15 2012 05:39 MLG_Adam wrote:On June 14 2012 21:26 FairForever wrote:On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:On June 14 2012 16:30 windsupernova wrote:
I don't get it how did a thread about some pretty legit points devolve in fanboy drooling and Idra and Blizzard bashing?
Idra, while he has a history of whining makes some clear and concise points about the(lack of) organization of the tournament organizers. Blizzard from what it seems outsourced everything to MLG and in this case(the terrible organization) lies on MLGs fault(O think they filled the event too much with so many stuff).If MLG couldn't handle the 2 tournaments then they should have declined the job.
I dont even understand why this thread turned out this crappy...
MLG did run both tourneys fine. I didn't hear about any players that only played MLG complain. The trouble was with players that tried to compete in both tournaments. I guess it was up to them to decide whether they could be competitive in both. There are plenty of cases in other sports(including e-sports) where individuals/teams need to make choices like these. But I agree with you, the thread could have a bit more genuine discussion about tournament scheduling/organization rather than personal attacks (without basis). If they had warned players that it might not be a good idea to play in both, then the onus would be more on the players. But they explicitly promoted that playing both tournaments would be okay (obviously, as they want the top players in both to draw the viewership), which was clearly incorrect. To be clear, every single player in the WCS was offered a spot in the MLG tournament via email. With that invitation they were also warned of the rigorous schedule. Some players decided to do both, others like Nony decided to focus on one event or the other. The players that chose to compete in both, Idra included, were warned in advance of schedule ramifications. Also, the Friday schedule ended at 1:32 AM, 2 minutes past schedule, not 2:30 AM. Idra says you encouraged them to play both, you say you warned them about playing both. Who's right? Of course we encouraged them to play. Greg is an incredible player, we wanted the best to play in both. However, they were warned that the schedule would be long and arduous. Greg nor myself said anything incorrect in anything that is being said (other than the schedule running until 2:30AM)
Adam: so Illusion's games ending that late were a result of overruns and delays rather than deliberate scheduling?
|
United States994 Posts
On June 15 2012 06:37 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 05:47 MLG_Adam wrote:On June 15 2012 05:44 Xiron wrote:On June 15 2012 05:39 MLG_Adam wrote:On June 14 2012 21:26 FairForever wrote:On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:On June 14 2012 16:30 windsupernova wrote:
I don't get it how did a thread about some pretty legit points devolve in fanboy drooling and Idra and Blizzard bashing?
Idra, while he has a history of whining makes some clear and concise points about the(lack of) organization of the tournament organizers. Blizzard from what it seems outsourced everything to MLG and in this case(the terrible organization) lies on MLGs fault(O think they filled the event too much with so many stuff).If MLG couldn't handle the 2 tournaments then they should have declined the job.
I dont even understand why this thread turned out this crappy...
MLG did run both tourneys fine. I didn't hear about any players that only played MLG complain. The trouble was with players that tried to compete in both tournaments. I guess it was up to them to decide whether they could be competitive in both. There are plenty of cases in other sports(including e-sports) where individuals/teams need to make choices like these. But I agree with you, the thread could have a bit more genuine discussion about tournament scheduling/organization rather than personal attacks (without basis). If they had warned players that it might not be a good idea to play in both, then the onus would be more on the players. But they explicitly promoted that playing both tournaments would be okay (obviously, as they want the top players in both to draw the viewership), which was clearly incorrect. To be clear, every single player in the WCS was offered a spot in the MLG tournament via email. With that invitation they were also warned of the rigorous schedule. Some players decided to do both, others like Nony decided to focus on one event or the other. The players that chose to compete in both, Idra included, were warned in advance of schedule ramifications. Also, the Friday schedule ended at 1:32 AM, 2 minutes past schedule, not 2:30 AM. Idra says you encouraged them to play both, you say you warned them about playing both. Who's right? Of course we encouraged them to play. Greg is an incredible player, we wanted the best to play in both. However, they were warned that the schedule would be long and arduous. Greg nor myself said anything incorrect in anything that is being said (other than the schedule running until 2:30AM) Adam: so Illusion's games ending that late were a result of overruns and delays rather than deliberate scheduling?
No match was played after 1:32 AM PST on Friday night.
|
lol ... playing in both and expecting it wouldn't be hard and stressing. Even if someone says its possible to take part in both, it still means you have to play non stop in the worst case, especially if you end up in a long game. Happens when games vary from 5 minutes to up to over an hour.
|
On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:
There are plenty of cases in other sports
Name some in professional sports.
|
Im shocked that IdrA is whining, he hardly ever complains.
If Adam is right, the last game played was 1:32 AM local time, thats fine. What gamer hasn't played that late? MLG gave people the option to play both. Should they have banned playing in both, like when Democrats cant vote in Republican primaries?
|
United States994 Posts
On June 15 2012 06:51 treekiller wrote:
Im shocked that IdrA is whining, he hardly ever complains.
If Adam is right, the last game played was 1:32 AM local time, thats fine. What gamer hasn't played that late? MLG gave people the option to play both. Should they have banned playing in both, like when Democrats cant vote in Republican primaries?
Just to be clear, I don't think Greg is whining. Greg is probably the most mannerly player when it comes to dealing with our staff. When we looked at our replay tracker, Greg played in 5 hours and 40 minutes of games over the weekend. DRG for comparison played in just under 5 hours of total game time. The weekend WAS HARD, especially for Friday for those doing both tournaments.
|
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't?
|
On June 15 2012 06:22 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 05:49 Egomancer wrote:
Lol, I see a bunch of people cheering for the winner, except idra that looks kinda sad, don't you think?
But maybe I am wrong...
Egomancer Idra wanted Alicia to beat DRG. That is clear.
Are we really going to interpret what the back of IdrA's head is trying to tell us?
LOL.
|
On June 15 2012 07:01 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 06:22 revel8 wrote:On June 15 2012 05:49 Egomancer wrote:
Lol, I see a bunch of people cheering for the winner, except idra that looks kinda sad, don't you think?
But maybe I am wrong...
Egomancer Idra wanted Alicia to beat DRG. That is clear. Are we really going to interpret what the back of IdrA's head is trying to tell us? LOL.
i think he tweeted "alicia hwaiting~" or something to that effect when he beat MKP so i feel confident thats why he wasnt standing
|
On June 15 2012 06:51 treekiller wrote:
Im shocked that IdrA is whining, he hardly ever complains.
If Adam is right, the last game played was 1:32 AM local time, thats fine. What gamer hasn't played that late? MLG gave people the option to play both. Should they have banned playing in both, like when Democrats cant vote in Republican primaries?
what if you got there at 10am? how would you feel about being at a convention center for 15 hours straight? regardless of how much of that time was playing tournament matches, theres still warm up games, signings, interviews, walking around, talking, flexing, etc etc etc. its not like youre sitting in a throne of pillows all day. hopefully the two tourneys can be split up somehow. it looks like for the most part, people bombed one tourney completely
|
On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't?
This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think?
|
On June 15 2012 06:50 SnuggleZhenya wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:
There are plenty of cases in other sports Name some in professional sports.
Football....like I mentioned on the next post. In fact some pretty big competitions run at the same time in Brazil. Except that they have the advantage of playing with a B-team.
In tennis you will have different Opens(not the grand slams) that run at the same time and player need to choose.
Judo will have tournaments that run at the same time.
And obviously starcraft 2, as Nony and other examples made the choice.
|
On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think?
- Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL.
- Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany.
|
On June 15 2012 07:07 Xarow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 07:01 Defacer wrote:On June 15 2012 06:22 revel8 wrote:On June 15 2012 05:49 Egomancer wrote:
Lol, I see a bunch of people cheering for the winner, except idra that looks kinda sad, don't you think?
But maybe I am wrong...
Egomancer Idra wanted Alicia to beat DRG. That is clear. Are we really going to interpret what the back of IdrA's head is trying to tell us? LOL. i think he tweeted "alicia hwaiting~" or something to that effect when he beat MKP so i feel confident thats why he wasnt standing
He did live with Alicia for three months in the Slayer's house
|
On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany.
Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go".
|
On June 15 2012 05:53 Pimpmuckl wrote:
Still, making WCS Wednesday-Thursday and MLG Friday-Sunday would have been the choice to do.
The whole point for the WCS was to give more unknown players(who probably are not full time pros) a spot to shine. Making it on Wednesday-Thursday would make it much harder for those who have school and\or work.
|
On June 15 2012 05:39 MLG_Adam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 21:26 FairForever wrote:On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:On June 14 2012 16:30 windsupernova wrote:
I don't get it how did a thread about some pretty legit points devolve in fanboy drooling and Idra and Blizzard bashing?
Idra, while he has a history of whining makes some clear and concise points about the(lack of) organization of the tournament organizers. Blizzard from what it seems outsourced everything to MLG and in this case(the terrible organization) lies on MLGs fault(O think they filled the event too much with so many stuff).If MLG couldn't handle the 2 tournaments then they should have declined the job.
I dont even understand why this thread turned out this crappy...
MLG did run both tourneys fine. I didn't hear about any players that only played MLG complain. The trouble was with players that tried to compete in both tournaments. I guess it was up to them to decide whether they could be competitive in both. There are plenty of cases in other sports(including e-sports) where individuals/teams need to make choices like these. But I agree with you, the thread could have a bit more genuine discussion about tournament scheduling/organization rather than personal attacks (without basis). If they had warned players that it might not be a good idea to play in both, then the onus would be more on the players. But they explicitly promoted that playing both tournaments would be okay (obviously, as they want the top players in both to draw the viewership), which was clearly incorrect. To be clear, every single player in the WCS was offered a spot in the MLG tournament via email. With that invitation they were also warned of the rigorous schedule. Some players decided to do both, others like Nony decided to focus on one event or the other. The players that chose to compete in both, Idra included, were warned in advance of schedule ramifications. Also, the Friday schedule ended at 1:32 AM, 2 minutes past schedule, not 2:30 AM.
Thanks for the clarification. I still agree with Idra, it's unreasonable to have both tournies over the same weekend. Rigorous or not it does one of two things, A) means certain players (like Nony) won't participate in both tournies and B) lowers the quality of play for those who do participate in both (burnout, fatigue, etc). Forget the players for a moment, neither option is good for the fans. I get wanting to save money, but if this continues eventually you will be degrading play. That will not make financial sense long term.
|
On June 15 2012 07:01 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 06:22 revel8 wrote:On June 15 2012 05:49 Egomancer wrote:
Lol, I see a bunch of people cheering for the winner, except idra that looks kinda sad, don't you think?
But maybe I am wrong...
Egomancer Idra wanted Alicia to beat DRG. That is clear. Are we really going to interpret what the back of IdrA's head is trying to tell us? LOL.
No. I just know that Idra tweeted support for Alicia during the tournament. I inferred from that that he was supporting Alicia. Not really too much of a stretch.
If this was not the case, Idra would probably correct me.
|
On June 15 2012 17:31 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 07:01 Defacer wrote:On June 15 2012 06:22 revel8 wrote:On June 15 2012 05:49 Egomancer wrote:
Lol, I see a bunch of people cheering for the winner, except idra that looks kinda sad, don't you think?
But maybe I am wrong...
Egomancer Idra wanted Alicia to beat DRG. That is clear. Are we really going to interpret what the back of IdrA's head is trying to tell us? LOL. No. I just know that Idra tweeted support for Alicia during the tournament. I inferred from that that he was supporting Alicia. Not really too much of a stretch. If this was not the case, Idra would probably correct me.
EG-Slayers.
and I really hope MLG and blizzard think this one through. at least get organised, get the schedules right and (more) on time.
|
On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go".
WCS germany was scheduled around the same time as MLG, so Socke decided not to go MLG.
Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above:
Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't?
What I mean is:
1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS.
2. I give an example of a German player player who had to choose between MLG and WCS.
3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans.
Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL.
EDIT: I thought I didn't have to sound so pissy.
|
On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Show nested quote +Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply.
socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one?
|
On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one?
I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one.
|
On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one.
wcs germany was in june this year...
but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about.
|
On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about.
I meant raleigh 2011.
I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it.
Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said.
|
On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said.
there was no wcs in 2011...do you mean wcg?
|
On June 15 2012 18:25 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said. there was no wcs in 2011...do you mean wcg?
Yes. Sorry about that. Maybe a better example is Naniwa with GSL and MLG.
|
On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said.
You miss the fact that attendance of MLG is not necessarily vital for European players, since their sponsors target a whole different market. aTn's main sponsor is Alternate, a German PC retail company. A more fitting comparison would be choosing between WCS Germany and IEM Cologne, a choice Socke, his team and their sponsor most definitely would not be happy to make.
|
On June 15 2012 18:34 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Edit: I guess that's why Quantic Naniwa is a better example. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said. You miss the fact that attendance of MLG is not necessarily vital for European players, since their sponsors target a whole different market. aTn's main sponsor is Alternate, a German PC retail company. A more fitting comparison would be choosing between WCS Germany and IEM Cologne, a choice Socke, his team and their sponsor most definitely would not be happy to make.
That's true about the comparison between WCS and IEM but you can't compare German scheduling efficiency to other countries. =P
I would say that MLG is big enough for a player to make a name for himself as well as competing for prize pool. Plus I assume that most people that follow sc2 in Germany would still watch MLG, no?
I don't really know the position of Alternate or aTn is on this , but if feels like some pretty big exposure.
EDIT: As I mentioned earlier Quantic Naniwa is a better example of this with GSL and MLG. Quantic being an american team.
|
On June 15 2012 18:38 Scheme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:34 rotegirte wrote:On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:
[quote]
This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Edit: I guess that's why Quantic Naniwa is a better example. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said. You miss the fact that attendance of MLG is not necessarily vital for European players, since their sponsors target a whole different market. aTn's main sponsor is Alternate, a German PC retail company. A more fitting comparison would be choosing between WCS Germany and IEM Cologne, a choice Socke, his team and their sponsor most definitely would not be happy to make. That's true about the comparison between WCS and IEM but you can't compare German scheduling efficiency to other countries. =P I would say that MLG is big enough for a player to make a name for himself as well as competing for prize pool. Plus I assume that most people that follow sc2 in Germany would still watch MLG, no? I don't really know the position of Alternate or aTn is on this , but if feels like some pretty big exposure.
I can't find the specific episodes, but on both The Executives and from time to time also on Lo3, the sponsorship situation was roughly described in such a way. There's not really much to it, every team has its own agenda. It is always a cost/benefit calculation. Obviously the cost of Idra's attempt of both WCS US and MLG is minimal to the potential benefit. And by that I mean on three different levels: personally for the player, for the brand and for their sponsors- which all have to be aligned the best possible way (not to mention the interests of the organizer, and well, everyone else involved). There were clear advantages to how MLG/WCS took place. Naturally, reliable measurement of success or performance can often only be taken in hindsight. And that's basically what happened. MLGAdam put it correctly: Neither side portrayed anything significant falsely. I'm sure everyone was aware of possible up- and downsides of this endeavor. The question was just how much. In a sense, Idra gave his personal evaluation, with the verdict that changes would be desirable.
|
On June 15 2012 18:34 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:On June 15 2012 06:56 Hardigan wrote:
Isn't there a WCS for other countries too? Wouldn't it be unfait, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said. You miss the fact that attendance of MLG is not necessarily vital for European players, since their sponsors target a whole different market. aTn's main sponsor is Alternate, a German PC retail company. A more fitting comparison would be choosing between WCS Germany and IEM Cologne, a choice Socke, his team and their sponsor most definitely would not be happy to make.
The only reason one would pick WCS over an IEM is the lack of general competition so it's an easier prize grab meaning less fame then that of the bigger more prestigious tournament which is hands down IEM. So I don't quite think your example is even reasonably good seeing as how they're not even comparable on any level. Not sure why you would even think they wouldn't be happy when given that choice cause the choice should always be an IEM over a qualifier -.-
|
On June 15 2012 19:14 Catatonic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 18:34 rotegirte wrote:On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 07:20 zeratul_jf wrote:
[quote]
This sums it up pretty well. Why do US players have to choose between their tourneys when everyone else gets to play theirs at different times. Seems rather unfair don't you think? - Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL. - Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany. Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said. You miss the fact that attendance of MLG is not necessarily vital for European players, since their sponsors target a whole different market. aTn's main sponsor is Alternate, a German PC retail company. A more fitting comparison would be choosing between WCS Germany and IEM Cologne, a choice Socke, his team and their sponsor most definitely would not be happy to make. The only reason one would pick WCS over an IEM is the lack of general competition so it's an easier prize grab meaning less fame then that of the bigger more prestigious tournament which is hands down IEM. So I don't quite think your example is even reasonably good seeing as how they're not even comparable on any level. Not sure why you would even think they wouldn't be happy when given that choice cause the choice should always be an IEM over a qualifier -.-
Sure. Like I mentioned above, the better example is Quantic Naniwa having to choose between two prestigious tournaments, GSL and MLG.
|
On June 15 2012 06:50 SnuggleZhenya wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 21:22 Scheme wrote:
There are plenty of cases in other sports Name some in professional sports.
Playing the Stanley Cup finals on lousy, chippy ice.
1 wrong move and its bye bye ACL.
In hockey, players constantly choose between international competition and the NHL.
what is better ? representing your country for the Spengler Cup or sitting in the press box at the Air Canada Centre just in case 2 defensemen get hurt in the same weeked so you can be available as an emergency fill in?
The 2010 "Winter Classic" occurred in the pouring rain at 7 Celsius under artificial lighting conditions.
This basically cost Sidney Crosby 2 years of his professional career and he'll probably never be the same player again... a la Eric Lindros , Paul Kariya, etc etc.
Dozens of complaints from lugers about the 2010 track being way too dangerous.
But, the admins want the track to produce a new world record.
Speed = Increased Danger.
The 2010 Olympic luge takes place on a track that was so dangerous it was modified that day after the luger died.
basically, all these lugers were now on a brand new untested recently modified track.
in 2005 the F1 Event at Indianapolis is so dangerous all but 6 cars choose to race. 7 teams retire on the opening lap.
from 1991 to 1993 "Neon" Dieon Sanders constantly had to choose which competitions he would play in and which he would avoid.
|
Vatican City State582 Posts
this definitely is a fair concern, and i believe viewers had rather watch the events separately so that players could perform better, but to be fair, players have the choice to participate in international events or national events. The same exact thing happens in football. Teams, players could decide if they wanted to participate in World Cup, FA Cup, other league or regional cups.
|
On June 15 2012 19:19 Scheme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 19:14 Catatonic wrote:On June 15 2012 18:34 rotegirte wrote:On June 15 2012 18:17 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:10 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 18:08 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 18:01 Paljas wrote:On June 15 2012 17:55 Scheme wrote:On June 15 2012 08:34 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 15 2012 07:39 Scheme wrote:
[quote]
- Naniwa missed MLG so that he could focus on GSL.
- Socke missed MLG to play in WCS in germany.
Apparently this guy thinks "scheduling conflict for major tournaments" is the same as "player didn't want to go". WCS germany was schedule at the same time as MLG, so Socke had to choose which one to go, not that he didn't want to go. Socke being an example of a player which is not American that had to choose between MLG and WCS., which is a reply to was Hardigan said above: Wouldn't it be unfair, that only the US would have to choose between WCS and mlg (both very important tournaments and unmissable), while other countries doesn't? Apparently lack the ability to understand my point, so I will break it down for you: 1. He mentions that only American players need to choose between MLG and WCS. 2.I give an example of a German player(which is not American btw) player who had to choose between MLG and WCS. 3. Illustrating that this is not a situation unique to Americans. Similarly Naniwa, from Sweden chose GSL over MLG. Not because he didn't want to go, but because the tournaments where scheduled to closely and therefore it would've affected his play in GSL. Apparently you should read all the nested replies before you reply. socke was at mlg spring championship... or are you referring to an other one? I thought it was 2011 Raleigh. I know he attended this one. wcs germany was in june this year... but maybe i just have no idea what you are talking about. I meant raleigh 2011. I just checked the tournaments and the had WCS qualifier and IEM around the same time as Raleigh 2011, so he didn't attend because if I recall he wouldn't have time. I think there a few comments on his Fan club about it. Naniwa with MLG and GSL being another example of what I said. You miss the fact that attendance of MLG is not necessarily vital for European players, since their sponsors target a whole different market. aTn's main sponsor is Alternate, a German PC retail company. A more fitting comparison would be choosing between WCS Germany and IEM Cologne, a choice Socke, his team and their sponsor most definitely would not be happy to make. The only reason one would pick WCS over an IEM is the lack of general competition so it's an easier prize grab meaning less fame then that of the bigger more prestigious tournament which is hands down IEM. So I don't quite think your example is even reasonably good seeing as how they're not even comparable on any level. Not sure why you would even think they wouldn't be happy when given that choice cause the choice should always be an IEM over a qualifier -.- Sure. Like I mentioned above, the better example is Quantic Naniwa having to choose between two prestigious tournaments, GSL and MLG.
There is a big difference between naniwa and idra situation. MLG wanted WCS to be at the same weekend with the mlg tournament. So that's why they deliberatly put them together. It could have been avoided other wise.
MLG and GSL don't really want to put these 2 tournaments together as than the viewercount (ok maybe not viewer directly, but the player had to choose between those 2 tournaments and hence also his fans) would drop. I'm sure they would have wanted to have a bigger break between these 2 tournaments if it could have been possible. MLG didn't think: "oh, GSL is on this date? ok, lets put mlg also there". (unless GSL and MLG hate eachother and are directly competing, which they probably don't in this degree )
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ge7L7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jiltp.jpg)
