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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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Ktk
Korea (South)753 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:20 Jono7272 wrote: Yeah, position siege tank armies in TvT via minimap, super standard good play. Are you serious? You can, and it's not really positioning he had plenty of time to idle anyways. Either way, I'm a more convinced now, the comparison between nonhacking and hacking replays made it more clear. | ||
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-Kaiser-
Canada932 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:29 Parcelleus wrote: No catz and co , your 'hack scan' is what Mvp does all the time, blindly scanning where he think the army will be (to locate army). Keep going. Spades 1 - Catz and co - 0. PS: Your whole argument is saying he cannot scan using the mini-map - which he obviously did. That is not hacking. No, what Spades did was apparently scan on the minimap while he was scrolling the screen with his mouse. The replay showed his view panning upwards, then stopping (locking) instantly when his camera hit fog of war to scan off screen. Then, Spadez didn't even look at the army he scanned. | ||
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DamageControL
United States4222 Posts
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dark_dragoon10
United States299 Posts
Now that said, if the community does decide to shun / kill his career then let me say this. Do not stop at just him. Actively pursue every SC2 pro in the community (even the obscure Korean players) and make sure of their legitimacy. Even white-ra, nestea,and the gracken should be on the list of targets even if they are immense fan favorites in the community. Mainly, our "justice" should be undertaken in an objective manner or not at all. Edit: It's kind of sad that this thread is moving so fast that my thoughts probably won't be read  , oh wells | ||
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Sideburn
United States442 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:27 cArn- wrote: I could do the same shit after watching 6-7 replays of any other player, and according to this completely flawed logic most korenas are hacking. This is no proof and is never gonna be, you always have days when you sense things more even if you're not a super top player, especially when you study a bunch of games of your opponent before playing him. That is part of what I find funny. If we were looking at a top and, more importantly, well-loved Korean player people would have an entirely different perception. "OMG what amazing game sense." "So pro!" "Godlike! Next bonjwa!" "How did he do that? Crazy star sense!" | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:30 whiterabbit wrote: Why are we still focused on Spades? We have post saying Koreans we all love do cheat even at big LANs like MLG... I am... well... fuck everything if Koreans have to stream cheat and have other player giving them tips in middle of game at LANs... how does that even get allowed?! FUCK ME! Games not played on the main stage at MLG are horribly horribly policed, I would not be surprised if something like this went on with people watching over their friends' opponents shoulder. | ||
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Megakenny
Canada829 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:31 BlackKeyStep wrote: I'm new to TL. There are other posts saying that the fact that this post is OP's 1st takes away credibility from the post. Why is that? Typically people make new accounts, so they'll have 0 posts, to "troll" or say outlandish things. However in this situation it seems the person made a new account to not tarnish his reputation or call out a friend, presumably the OP is a higher status community personality. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:30 whiterabbit wrote: Why are we still focused on Spades? We have post saying Koreans we all love do cheat even at big LANs like MLG... I am... well... fuck everything if Koreans have to stream cheat and have other player giving them tips in middle of game at LANs... how does that even get allowed?! FUCK ME! Yeah, that's even more interesting. I don't think that'll be able to fly under the radar for long. But the Spades thing has to be cleared up now. | ||
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
Spades , what you response to that ? | ||
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Toons
Australia136 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:29 efren wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2012 12:26 Toons wrote: Why are people surprised that: 1. Lesser known players will do anything to try and gain popularity to cash in; and 2. Known players (i.e. Koreans) would stream cheat in order to gain bragging/honour/money from their friends? The naivety of the SC2 community is funny. You have way more $$$ involved in esports now. In RL, people rob you for $5 and a candy bar, what makes you think they won't cheat at a video game for $100-$1000-$10000? we are not suprised but this threatens sc2 as a legit competition I think that this has always been there, ladder & online competitions are a complete, irrelevant, joke. You can't have online and legit, and I think there are a few pro's that have been saying that for a long time... | ||
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Sikly
United States413 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:24 QuanticTheognis wrote: Things just got cray. O_O Sums it up pretty fucking well. This is sad. I wish human beings were nice and fair and we didn't even have to consider if someone would try to cheat in a competitive environment. It sucks we do witch hunts. Shit like this makes me seriously want to never watch community news, and only watch various tournaments so I can avoid as much drama as possible, but places like teamliquid can be so positive as well. To be honest, Spades is not relevant to me at all. He wasn't relevant before this whole situation, and he wont be relevant afterwards. I feel bad for the guy if he's guilty or not, a public trial can't be enjoyable. I hope someone can come up with a clever way to, hopefully through a program, that can clearly identify hacks of every kind so we don't have to do this on a maybe and possibly basis. At least we don't have to worry about cheating in lan tournaments like professional sports have to worry about peds. | ||
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Traceback
United States469 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:29 Parcelleus wrote: No catz and co , your 'hack scan' is what Mvp does all the time, blindly scanning where he think the army will be (to locate army). Keep going. Spades 1 - Catz and co - 0. PS: Your whole argument is saying he cannot scan using the mini-map - which he obviously did. That is not hacking. You totally misunderstood what catz was saying. | ||
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Xorphene
United Kingdom492 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:31 Trict wrote: Your wrong it's the teams responsibility not the community. No? It's the teams responsibility to review and, if necessary, punish. However, the community are definitely entitled to their views. | ||
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bennyaus
Australia1833 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:32 Sideburn wrote: That is part of what I find funny. If we were looking at a top and, more importantly, well-loved Korean player people would have an entirely different perception. "OMG what amazing game sense." "So pro!" "Godlike! Next bonjwa!" "How did he do that? Crazy star sense!" Way to miss 90% of what is being presented on that stream. | ||
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sorrowptoss
Canada1431 Posts
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TenJin`Lucian
Costa Rica158 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:30 Peekay.switch wrote: APM is average over a few seconds, I doubt it could be used to notice a major difference during screen locks. There is also CURRENT APM, also, if it is over a few seconds, if he screen locks and then take to looks over the map, his APM will drop regardless over the average he had before. | ||
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bennyaus
Australia1833 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:33 Xorphene wrote: No? It's the teams responsibility to review and, if necessary, punish. However, the community are definitely entitled to their views. No? Tournaments will act on the community finding damning evidence. I don't think Spades will be allowed to play in future tournaments based on what I'm watching. | ||
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Jono7272
United Kingdom6330 Posts
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listal
United States228 Posts
the damage has been done to Spades' reputation without actually having proven anything. this is sad to see. | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
I can only hope that when I play games and use a certain strategy that people won't suspect I might do it again. You're a fool if you don't realize the chance of it happening again. You shouldn't necessarily bank on it either. You simply scout for it... Same kinda deal. Sympathy for cheaters... if you have nothing to hide, the truth comes out, anyways. If you want to be vindicated, you simply produce results offline to gain some credibility. You don't lose credibility and then earn benefit of the doubt for no reason. | ||
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