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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 07 2012 06:44 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:41 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:38 Shiori wrote:On June 07 2012 06:36 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:35 Reptilia wrote:On June 07 2012 06:34 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:I have 100% proof. http://imgur.com/urSlBThis is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/urSlB.jpg) EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook. This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously.... Entire log plz or no go. Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid. [4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way [4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof [4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later [4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise [4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot [4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence [4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely [4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong [4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever [4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map [4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net [4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post [4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong [4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map [4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe [4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry [4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP. Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding - Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc... According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map. Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking. [4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen [4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect [4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother [4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots [4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap [4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol [4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl [4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe [4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit [4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted" [4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one [4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like [4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream [4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps [4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking [4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence [4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol [4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great [4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out [4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like [4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra [4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan [4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz [4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz [4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one [4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put [4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics [4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker" [4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something [4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog [4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock [4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click [4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg [4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains [4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^ [4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does [4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it [4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible [4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times [4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world [4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect [4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack [4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL [4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something [4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable [4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish [4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer [4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah [4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL [4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA [4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before. how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis. I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there  Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure. We are clearly joking around here We are clearly trying to find objectively whether you are guilty or innocent.* Theres maybe 10 people objectively finding if I am guilty or innocent, I am not naive enough to think most of this is objective. I appreciate the objective people, and I hope they find results, one way or the other. It would help immensely if you were active in the investigation and actually tried to be honest with us rather than just sitting around until it's painstakingly figured out. And this is coming from someone who has defended you at more than one point in this thread. I spent 2 days going b ack and forth with people. I have Anaheim in 2 days. I dont have time to sit around this thread and defend myself all day. I've said what I can, I gave replays, I encourage people doing all this technical research. I left my team so they would avoid backlash from this situation such as emailing sponsors etc. What else do you want from me. No matter what I say, people deny and question it. I'm tired, I just want to practice for Anaheim and perform well, that's all I want to focus on for the next week. How about you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not hack? You can't do that, can you? Start your stream and show us how you can play say, 20 games in a row without ever looking in fog of war, and using your minimap to perform almost every single action. Please do that. Until you do that, I will take CatZ's word as conclusive evidence that you are a hacker. Because habits are almost impossible to just turn off day to day. Prove to us you can do that, and then I will start to believe you.
Spades....
This.
This would help us compare and contrast your game play and determine if your games in question were really legit.
This would help you practice for Anaheim.
This would possibly help exhonerate your name.
This would get you stream revenue since the Spades name is huge right now.
WHY would you not do this? Its a win on all fronts.
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Possibly 100% proof that he was hacking due to the minimap etc
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/
+ Show Spoiler +Hi guys, tonycheese here. I'm currently a ~950 Masters (on my smurf I suppose), fairly inactive player on the NA server. There has recently been a touch of controversy about the Spades situation. Although it does seem painfully obvious to me that Spades is maphacking in the replays provided when compared to his normal replays, many still call for "conclusive" proof. And there has been fear that conclusive proof cannot and will not exist. Well, I *believe* I have found a way to conclusively detect if camera locks (and therefore maphacks) have been used. The way my detection method works is as follows: When a maphacker's camera is locked, he is looking around in the fog of war, but the replay shows him looking somewhere else. So, the maphacker claims that his actions are done on the minimap, when in reality they are done directly on the normal map in the fog of war. *But*, the minimap is limited to a grid, with the smallest unit of measurement being the pixel. When you click on the normal map you can achieve a much greater level of precision than on the minimap. And as far as I can tell, the minimap's grid is consistent and reproducable. What does this mean? If we can find a point in the replay where the camera is not focused on the spot the maphacking player is clicking, and the player clicks on a spot that does not exist on the minimap grid, that player had the camera locked. In my first attempt, I found a spot that I could not click on the minimap, when Spades' camera was focused on his back third in daybreak, and he sent an scv to build the forward third "on the minimap". Here are the sc2gears logs of my attempts at minimap clicking the spot next to the gas geyser. I will upload replays of these two attempts momentarily. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eB97S.png) If people cannot find holes in my detection method, I believe we do have a painful, but systematic way of detecting any maphacks where camera locks are used. \*\*\*\*\* Edit: Here are my replay files, not sure how long rapidshare will keep these up, though: https://www.rapidshare.com/#!download|433|104782746|Minimap_clicking.zip|156EDIT: As batterseapower pointed out below, I have not tested minimap clicking in, uh, every available resolution. And I don't really have the means to do it right now, so if someone else is super bored that would be appreciated. However, you can see that the jumps on the map happen in units of 1.4 and .8 when running at 1600x900 resolution, meaning the jumps will still be very large at a larger resolution, meaning this is hopefully still a viable method of detection. EDIT AGAIN: Actually, we don't need to test this in other resolutions. If you look at the two clicks at 12:14, the x coordinates are 117.9 and 117.6. This is only .3 units apart and I believe this is impossible in any known resolution that normal people have on their computers. At 1600x900 my computer jumps 1.4 units for 1 pixel on the minimap. **EDIT 4:30 PM: A/some TL player(s) have claimed that they can get better than 1 pixel granularity on the minimap and I believe one player claims to have hit the point that I tried to check. I do want to remind you that I have not yet tried to look at other Spades replays or other instances of clicking (this was simply my first try), so my method is still open to discussion I suppose.** **Right now, the two ways I have proposed to check are  * **1) Seeing if clicks in the fog of war snap onto the minimap grid and are reproduceable at some resolution or** **2) Seeing if close together clicks in the fog of war are impossibly close for a normal resolution on the minimap.**
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On June 07 2012 06:36 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:35 Reptilia wrote:On June 07 2012 06:34 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:I have 100% proof. http://imgur.com/urSlBThis is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this. EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook. This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously.... Entire log plz or no go. Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid. [4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way [4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof [4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later [4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise [4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot [4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence [4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely [4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong [4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever [4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map [4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net [4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post [4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong [4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map [4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe [4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry [4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP. Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding - Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc... According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map. Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking. [4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen [4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect [4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother [4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots [4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap [4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol [4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl [4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe [4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit [4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted" [4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one [4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like [4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream [4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps [4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking [4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence [4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol [4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great [4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out [4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like [4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra [4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan [4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz [4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz [4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one [4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put [4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics [4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker" [4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something [4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog [4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock [4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click [4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg [4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains [4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^ [4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does [4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it [4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible [4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times [4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world [4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect [4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack [4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL [4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something [4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable [4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish [4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer [4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah [4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL [4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA [4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before. how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis. I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure. We are clearly joking around here We are clearly trying to find objectively whether you are guilty or innocent.* Theres maybe 10 people objectively finding if I am guilty or innocent, I am not naive enough to think most of this is objective. I appreciate the objective people, and I hope they find results, one way or the other.
More evasive, shadowy language. Does nothing to help your cause man. "One way or the other" -- you've been using ambiguous phrases this whole thread. You inspire zero confidence.
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On June 07 2012 06:47 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:43 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 06:41 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:38 Dodgin wrote:On June 07 2012 06:35 toiletCAT wrote:
Well, I couldn't care less if Spades is hacking or not, I'm in this to help stop the community from jumping to conclusions on very serious topics. Seems like you're just one of his friends that registered yesterday to help defend him. man this shit is good. Yep, seems that way. Signed up today "Lives in Qatar" to avoid anyone knowing his identity Tons of his posts are in this thread, including his first I actually live in Denmark, I signed up today because I thought I wanted to interact with the TL community. Since I know you didn't think this claim through, I'll say this anyway; good luck in your attempt to prove that I'm just some goon of his, attempting to help him out. Is there anything else you would like to know that I can't possibly prove to you, one way or another? A friend of Spades is not necessarily a "goon" of Spades. It was kind of a joke anyways. Spades isn't the only one who can do such a thing
Oh.. well, it didn't came to me a joke, I think. Haha, I'm sorry.
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MLG replays of him will tell if he will ever look at fog of war or not, and hopefully clear things out a bit
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On June 07 2012 06:44 SolHeiM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:41 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:38 Shiori wrote:On June 07 2012 06:36 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:35 Reptilia wrote:On June 07 2012 06:34 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:I have 100% proof. http://imgur.com/urSlBThis is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this. EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook. This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously.... Entire log plz or no go. Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid. [4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way [4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof [4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later [4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise [4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot [4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence [4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely [4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong [4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever [4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map [4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net [4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post [4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong [4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map [4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe [4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry [4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP. Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding - Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc... According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map. Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking. [4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen [4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect [4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother [4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots [4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap [4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol [4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl [4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe [4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit [4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted" [4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one [4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like [4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream [4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps [4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking [4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence [4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol [4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great [4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out [4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like [4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra [4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan [4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz [4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz [4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one [4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put [4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics [4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker" [4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something [4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog [4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock [4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click [4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg [4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains [4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^ [4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does [4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it [4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible [4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times [4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world [4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect [4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack [4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL [4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something [4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable [4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish [4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer [4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah [4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL [4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA [4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before. how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis. I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure. We are clearly joking around here We are clearly trying to find objectively whether you are guilty or innocent.* Theres maybe 10 people objectively finding if I am guilty or innocent, I am not naive enough to think most of this is objective. I appreciate the objective people, and I hope they find results, one way or the other. It would help immensely if you were active in the investigation and actually tried to be honest with us rather than just sitting around until it's painstakingly figured out. And this is coming from someone who has defended you at more than one point in this thread. I spent 2 days going b ack and forth with people. I have Anaheim in 2 days. I dont have time to sit around this thread and defend myself all day. I've said what I can, I gave replays, I encourage people doing all this technical research. I left my team so they would avoid backlash from this situation such as emailing sponsors etc. What else do you want from me. No matter what I say, people deny and question it. I'm tired, I just want to practice for Anaheim and perform well, that's all I want to focus on for the next week. How about you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not hack? You can't do that, can you? Start your stream and show us how you can play say, 20 games in a row without ever looking in fog of war, and using your minimap to perform almost every single action. Please do that. Until you do that, I will take CatZ's word as conclusive evidence that you are a hacker. Because habits are almost impossible to just turn off day to day. Prove to us you can do that, and then I will start to believe you.
Yeah, no. Thats the wrong way to go about this. There must be some other way to prove him guilty/not guilty. The burden of proof is on the accuser and in this case YOU would have to prove that he CANT do that.
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... seriously, read the thread, it's been covered
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On June 07 2012 06:48 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:43 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 06:41 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:38 Dodgin wrote:On June 07 2012 06:35 toiletCAT wrote:
Well, I couldn't care less if Spades is hacking or not, I'm in this to help stop the community from jumping to conclusions on very serious topics. Seems like you're just one of his friends that registered yesterday to help defend him. man this shit is good. Yep, seems that way. Signed up today "Lives in Qatar" to avoid anyone knowing his identity Tons of his posts are in this thread, including his first I actually live in Denmark, I signed up today because I thought I wanted to interact with the TL community. Since I know you didn't think this claim through, I'll say this anyway; good luck in your attempt to prove that I'm just some goon of his, attempting to help him out. Is there anything else you would like to know that I can't possibly prove to you, one way or another? Explain that picture nonsense then.
I already have. I made a mistake, I inverted the illuminative colour output.
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On June 07 2012 06:41 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:38 Shiori wrote:On June 07 2012 06:36 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:35 Reptilia wrote:On June 07 2012 06:34 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:I have 100% proof. http://imgur.com/urSlBThis is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this. EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook. This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously.... Entire log plz or no go. Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid. [4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way [4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof [4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later [4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise [4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot [4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence [4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely [4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong [4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever [4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map [4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net [4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post [4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong [4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map [4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe [4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry [4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP. Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding - Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc... According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map. Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking. [4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen [4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect [4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother [4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots [4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap [4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol [4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl [4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe [4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit [4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted" [4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one [4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like [4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream [4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps [4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking [4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence [4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol [4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great [4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out [4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like [4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra [4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan [4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz [4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz [4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one [4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put [4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics [4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker" [4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something [4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog [4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock [4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click [4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg [4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains [4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^ [4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does [4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it [4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible [4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times [4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world [4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect [4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack [4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL [4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something [4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable [4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish [4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer [4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah [4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL [4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA [4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before. how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis. I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure. We are clearly joking around here We are clearly trying to find objectively whether you are guilty or innocent.* Theres maybe 10 people objectively finding if I am guilty or innocent, I am not naive enough to think most of this is objective. I appreciate the objective people, and I hope they find results, one way or the other. It would help immensely if you were active in the investigation and actually tried to be honest with us rather than just sitting around until it's painstakingly figured out. And this is coming from someone who has defended you at more than one point in this thread. I spent 2 days going b ack and forth with people. I have Anaheim in 2 days. I dont have time to sit around this thread and defend myself all day. I've said what I can, I gave replays, I encourage people doing all this technical research. I left my team so they would avoid backlash from this situation such as emailing sponsors etc. What else do you want from me. No matter what I say, people deny and question it. I'm tired, I just want to practice for Anaheim and perform well, that's all I want to focus on for the next week.
Shutup you are not devoted. Honestly, everyone knows you have one of the WORST. W-O-R-S-T practice ethics in the entire game. Don't speak about Anaheim being in 2 days. Why weren't you practicing before???? MY practice ethic is better than YOURS and I only have 6 hours free a day! YOU ARE SUCH A FUCKING LIER.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On June 07 2012 06:48 freakeh wrote:Possibly 100% proof that he was hacking due to the minimap etc http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/+ Show Spoiler +Hi guys, tonycheese here. I'm currently a ~950 Masters (on my smurf I suppose), fairly inactive player on the NA server. There has recently been a touch of controversy about the Spades situation. Although it does seem painfully obvious to me that Spades is maphacking in the replays provided when compared to his normal replays, many still call for "conclusive" proof. And there has been fear that conclusive proof cannot and will not exist. Well, I *believe* I have found a way to conclusively detect if camera locks (and therefore maphacks) have been used. The way my detection method works is as follows: When a maphacker's camera is locked, he is looking around in the fog of war, but the replay shows him looking somewhere else. So, the maphacker claims that his actions are done on the minimap, when in reality they are done directly on the normal map in the fog of war. *But*, the minimap is limited to a grid, with the smallest unit of measurement being the pixel. When you click on the normal map you can achieve a much greater level of precision than on the minimap. And as far as I can tell, the minimap's grid is consistent and reproducable. What does this mean? If we can find a point in the replay where the camera is not focused on the spot the maphacking player is clicking, and the player clicks on a spot that does not exist on the minimap grid, that player had the camera locked. In my first attempt, I found a spot that I could not click on the minimap, when Spades' camera was focused on his back third in daybreak, and he sent an scv to build the forward third "on the minimap". Here are the sc2gears logs of my attempts at minimap clicking the spot next to the gas geyser. I will upload replays of these two attempts momentarily. If people cannot find holes in my detection method, I believe we do have a painful, but systematic way of detecting any maphacks where camera locks are used. \*\*\*\*\* Edit: Here are my replay files, not sure how long rapidshare will keep these up, though: https://www.rapidshare.com/#!download|433|104782746|Minimap_clicking.zip|156EDIT: As batterseapower pointed out below, I have not tested minimap clicking in, uh, every available resolution. And I don't really have the means to do it right now, so if someone else is super bored that would be appreciated. However, you can see that the jumps on the map happen in units of 1.4 and .8 when running at 1600x900 resolution, meaning the jumps will still be very large at a larger resolution, meaning this is hopefully still a viable method of detection. EDIT AGAIN: Actually, we don't need to test this in other resolutions. If you look at the two clicks at 12:14, the x coordinates are 117.9 and 117.6. This is only .3 units apart and I believe this is impossible in any known resolution that normal people have on their computers. At 1600x900 my computer jumps 1.4 units for 1 pixel on the minimap. **EDIT 4:30 PM: A/some TL player(s) have claimed that they can get better than 1 pixel granularity on the minimap and I believe one player claims to have hit the point that I tried to check. I do want to remind you that I have not yet tried to look at other Spades replays or other instances of clicking (this was simply my first try), so my method is still open to discussion I suppose.** **Right now, the two ways I have proposed to check are * **1) Seeing if clicks in the fog of war snap onto the minimap grid and are reproduceable at some resolution or** **2) Seeing if close together clicks in the fog of war are impossibly close for a normal resolution on the minimap.**
Has been shown to be an unreliable method and results are inconclusive. Please stop reposting this.
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Oh Spades, silly, silly Spades. This has gone far, far beyond reasonable doubt now. It's almost laughable that Spades still tries to defend against the tides of evidence.
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On June 07 2012 06:49 snam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:44 SolHeiM wrote:On June 07 2012 06:41 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:38 Shiori wrote:On June 07 2012 06:36 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:35 Reptilia wrote:On June 07 2012 06:34 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:I have 100% proof. http://imgur.com/urSlBThis is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this. EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook. This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously.... Entire log plz or no go. Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid. [4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way [4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof [4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later [4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise [4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot [4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence [4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely [4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong [4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever [4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map [4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net [4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post [4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong [4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map [4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe [4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry [4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP. Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding - Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc... According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map. Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking. [4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen [4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect [4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother [4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots [4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap [4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol [4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl [4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe [4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit [4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted" [4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one [4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like [4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream [4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps [4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking [4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence [4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol [4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great [4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out [4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like [4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra [4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan [4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz [4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz [4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one [4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put [4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics [4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker" [4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something [4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog [4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock [4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click [4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg [4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains [4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^ [4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does [4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it [4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible [4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times [4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world [4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect [4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack [4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL [4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something [4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable [4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish [4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer [4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah [4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL [4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA [4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before. how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis. I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure. We are clearly joking around here We are clearly trying to find objectively whether you are guilty or innocent.* Theres maybe 10 people objectively finding if I am guilty or innocent, I am not naive enough to think most of this is objective. I appreciate the objective people, and I hope they find results, one way or the other. It would help immensely if you were active in the investigation and actually tried to be honest with us rather than just sitting around until it's painstakingly figured out. And this is coming from someone who has defended you at more than one point in this thread. I spent 2 days going b ack and forth with people. I have Anaheim in 2 days. I dont have time to sit around this thread and defend myself all day. I've said what I can, I gave replays, I encourage people doing all this technical research. I left my team so they would avoid backlash from this situation such as emailing sponsors etc. What else do you want from me. No matter what I say, people deny and question it. I'm tired, I just want to practice for Anaheim and perform well, that's all I want to focus on for the next week. How about you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not hack? You can't do that, can you? Start your stream and show us how you can play say, 20 games in a row without ever looking in fog of war, and using your minimap to perform almost every single action. Please do that. Until you do that, I will take CatZ's word as conclusive evidence that you are a hacker. Because habits are almost impossible to just turn off day to day. Prove to us you can do that, and then I will start to believe you. Yeah, no. Thats the wrong way to go about this. There must be some other way to prove him guilty/not guilty. The burden of proof is on the accuser and in this case YOU would have to prove that he CANT do that.
As CatZ and the other people discussed on their streams, certain habits are impossible to just turn off at will, and they showed several instances of Spades actually looking in fog of war before sending units to watch towers, into mains for scouting etc.. That is the proof we have as accusers. It is now up to Spades to prove that he can turn those habits off on a whim, so that we cannot use our evidence as proof of him hacking.
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On June 07 2012 06:44 Firesilver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:34 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:I have 100% proof. http://imgur.com/urSlBThis is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this. EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook. This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously.... Entire log plz or no go. Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid. [4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way [4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof [4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later [4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise [4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot [4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence [4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely [4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong [4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever [4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map [4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net [4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post [4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong [4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map [4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe [4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry [4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP. Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding - Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc... According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map. Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking. [4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen [4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect [4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother [4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots [4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap [4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol [4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl [4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe [4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit [4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted" [4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one [4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like [4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream [4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps [4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking [4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence [4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol [4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great [4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out [4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like [4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra [4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan [4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz [4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz [4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one [4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put [4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics [4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker" [4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something [4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog [4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock [4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click [4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg [4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains [4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^ [4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does [4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it [4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible [4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times [4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world [4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect [4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack [4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL [4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something [4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable [4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish [4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer [4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah [4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL [4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA [4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before. how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis. I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure. We are clearly joking around here Just reading some of your previous posts.. Show nested quote +I'm trying to make a career of this, If people think im a cheater, they wont watch me, they wont get lessons from me. I wont get invites. Shit like this tarnishes you, how am i supposed to make money, Next time I do well in something, they will just call me a cheater again. I dealt with this in Broodwar I know how the community is. Show nested quote +Guess ill have to play all my matches against your biggest heroes with a camera behind me seeing both my screens. So next time i do okay and still lose against a top player you wont try to destroy my career by making up bullshit. Show nested quote +I just want to say, I am extremely upset about this. This hurts my career, as well as my mental state. You say that this is a big deal to you, and that you "know how this community is" yet somehow you posting these conversations about you basically taking the piss out of the situation thinking this would actually help your case in some way? The amount of effort people have put in to reinforce their points behind this especially the recent reddit thread (the one that Destiny also chimed in on regarding the minimap). Seriously, I don't know whether you are still trying to somehow prove yourself innocent or are accepting that you've been found out and having a laugh about the situation. You really haven't helped yourself in this matter at all to be honest. Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:42 OneOther wrote:On June 07 2012 06:34 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:I have 100% proof. http://imgur.com/urSlBThis is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this. EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook. This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously.... Entire log plz or no go. Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid. [4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way [4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof [4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later [4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise [4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot [4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence [4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely [4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong [4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever [4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map [4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net [4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post [4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong [4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map [4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe [4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry [4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP. Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding - Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc... According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map. Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking. [4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen [4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect [4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother [4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots [4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap [4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol [4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl [4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe [4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit [4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted" [4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one [4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like [4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream [4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps [4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking [4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence [4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol [4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great [4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out [4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like [4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra [4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan [4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz [4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz [4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one [4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put [4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics [4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker" [4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something [4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog [4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock [4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click [4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg [4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains [4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^ [4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does [4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it [4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible [4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times [4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world [4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect [4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack [4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL [4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something [4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable [4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish [4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer [4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah [4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL [4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA [4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before. how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis. I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure. We are clearly joking around here. And i know people are proving/disproving the technical debates, and they are keeping me updated with PM's. I'm not reading the whole thread and waiting, im practicing for Anahiem. Anyone who knows me knows that I have thick skin, and I have no problem joking around and being light about this with friends. It's a very serious matter, but I can still have a laugh with friends about things we find funny. Yea, I remember you making similar jokes about other people having small brains when they caught you hacking in BW. You thought it was hilarious Ok, so you're practising for MLG Anahiem, that's all well and good but this thread and what damage has been done so far isn't going to magically disappear once you play there. If you sweep this under the rug and just try and forget about it then the evidence looks like it's going to keep mounting up and you probably wouldn't be able to participate in some future tournaments if you were found to be guilty. Also as to OneOther's post, It seems like the time you were caught before you didn't act so smart then either.
It is quite hilarious how all over the place he is with this situation. This is the EXACT same situation that happened in Brood War. Out of all the hackers caught, he was the one who denied it the longest only mentioning it when he started playing sc2. It's so funny reading his responces : )
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On June 07 2012 06:49 snam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:44 SolHeiM wrote:On June 07 2012 06:41 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:38 Shiori wrote:On June 07 2012 06:36 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:35 Reptilia wrote:On June 07 2012 06:34 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:I have 100% proof. http://imgur.com/urSlBThis is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this. EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook. This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously.... Entire log plz or no go. Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid. [4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way [4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof [4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later [4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise [4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot [4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence [4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely [4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong [4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever [4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map [4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net [4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post [4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong [4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map [4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe [4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry [4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP. Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding - Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc... According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map. Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking. [4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen [4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect [4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother [4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots [4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap [4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol [4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl [4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe [4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit [4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted" [4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one [4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like [4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream [4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps [4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking [4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence [4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol [4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great [4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out [4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like [4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra [4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan [4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz [4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz [4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one [4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put [4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics [4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker" [4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something [4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog [4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock [4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click [4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg [4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains [4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^ [4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does [4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it [4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible [4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times [4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world [4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect [4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack [4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL [4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something [4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable [4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish [4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer [4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah [4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL [4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA [4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before. how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis. I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure. We are clearly joking around here We are clearly trying to find objectively whether you are guilty or innocent.* Theres maybe 10 people objectively finding if I am guilty or innocent, I am not naive enough to think most of this is objective. I appreciate the objective people, and I hope they find results, one way or the other. It would help immensely if you were active in the investigation and actually tried to be honest with us rather than just sitting around until it's painstakingly figured out. And this is coming from someone who has defended you at more than one point in this thread. I spent 2 days going b ack and forth with people. I have Anaheim in 2 days. I dont have time to sit around this thread and defend myself all day. I've said what I can, I gave replays, I encourage people doing all this technical research. I left my team so they would avoid backlash from this situation such as emailing sponsors etc. What else do you want from me. No matter what I say, people deny and question it. I'm tired, I just want to practice for Anaheim and perform well, that's all I want to focus on for the next week. How about you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not hack? You can't do that, can you? Start your stream and show us how you can play say, 20 games in a row without ever looking in fog of war, and using your minimap to perform almost every single action. Please do that. Until you do that, I will take CatZ's word as conclusive evidence that you are a hacker. Because habits are almost impossible to just turn off day to day. Prove to us you can do that, and then I will start to believe you. Yeah, no. Thats the wrong way to go about this. There must be some other way to prove him guilty/not guilty. The burden of proof is on the accuser and in this case YOU would have to prove that he CANT do that.
At this point Spades has to clear his name. As it stands he is damned. He can't just leave it because for most people the prosecution case has been convincing. He needs to present his defence.
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On June 07 2012 06:49 snam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:44 SolHeiM wrote:On June 07 2012 06:41 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:38 Shiori wrote:On June 07 2012 06:36 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:35 Reptilia wrote:On June 07 2012 06:34 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:I have 100% proof. http://imgur.com/urSlBThis is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this. EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook. This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously.... Entire log plz or no go. Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid. [4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way [4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof [4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later [4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise [4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot [4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence [4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely [4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong [4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever [4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map [4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net [4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post [4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong [4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map [4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe [4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry [4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP. Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding - Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc... According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map. Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking. [4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen [4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect [4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother [4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots [4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap [4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol [4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl [4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe [4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit [4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted" [4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one [4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like [4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream [4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps [4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking [4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence [4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol [4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great [4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out [4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like [4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra [4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan [4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz [4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz [4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one [4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put [4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics [4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker" [4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something [4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog [4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock [4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click [4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg [4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains [4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^ [4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does [4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it [4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible [4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times [4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world [4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect [4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack [4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL [4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something [4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable [4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish [4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit [4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer [4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah [4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL [4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA [4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before. how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis. I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure. We are clearly joking around here We are clearly trying to find objectively whether you are guilty or innocent.* Theres maybe 10 people objectively finding if I am guilty or innocent, I am not naive enough to think most of this is objective. I appreciate the objective people, and I hope they find results, one way or the other. It would help immensely if you were active in the investigation and actually tried to be honest with us rather than just sitting around until it's painstakingly figured out. And this is coming from someone who has defended you at more than one point in this thread. I spent 2 days going b ack and forth with people. I have Anaheim in 2 days. I dont have time to sit around this thread and defend myself all day. I've said what I can, I gave replays, I encourage people doing all this technical research. I left my team so they would avoid backlash from this situation such as emailing sponsors etc. What else do you want from me. No matter what I say, people deny and question it. I'm tired, I just want to practice for Anaheim and perform well, that's all I want to focus on for the next week. How about you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not hack? You can't do that, can you? Start your stream and show us how you can play say, 20 games in a row without ever looking in fog of war, and using your minimap to perform almost every single action. Please do that. Until you do that, I will take CatZ's word as conclusive evidence that you are a hacker. Because habits are almost impossible to just turn off day to day. Prove to us you can do that, and then I will start to believe you. Yeah, no. Thats the wrong way to go about this. There must be some other way to prove him guilty/not guilty. The burden of proof is on the accuser and in this case YOU would have to prove that he CANT do that.
Strange, here I thought it was his career on the line. You'd think if he could sort if out by just opening up his stream while he is practicing for Anaheim (just don't show fancy tacs in those games?) to clear his name, it's not much to ask, is it?
Unless ofc...
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On June 07 2012 06:48 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:43 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 06:41 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:38 Dodgin wrote:On June 07 2012 06:35 toiletCAT wrote:
Well, I couldn't care less if Spades is hacking or not, I'm in this to help stop the community from jumping to conclusions on very serious topics. Seems like you're just one of his friends that registered yesterday to help defend him. man this shit is good. Yep, seems that way. Signed up today "Lives in Qatar" to avoid anyone knowing his identity Tons of his posts are in this thread, including his first I actually live in Denmark, I signed up today because I thought I wanted to interact with the TL community. Since I know you didn't think this claim through, I'll say this anyway; good luck in your attempt to prove that I'm just some goon of his, attempting to help him out. Is there anything else you would like to know that I can't possibly prove to you, one way or another? Explain that picture nonsense then.
His "evidence" makes it clear that he's a troll trying to keep the drama going in this thread. Funny how he claims that he's trying to help Spades yet Spades himself was the one who debunked his bogus picture analysis.
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On June 07 2012 06:53 Kitchen.Sink wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:48 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 06:43 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 06:41 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:38 Dodgin wrote:On June 07 2012 06:35 toiletCAT wrote:
Well, I couldn't care less if Spades is hacking or not, I'm in this to help stop the community from jumping to conclusions on very serious topics. Seems like you're just one of his friends that registered yesterday to help defend him. man this shit is good. Yep, seems that way. Signed up today "Lives in Qatar" to avoid anyone knowing his identity Tons of his posts are in this thread, including his first I actually live in Denmark, I signed up today because I thought I wanted to interact with the TL community. Since I know you didn't think this claim through, I'll say this anyway; good luck in your attempt to prove that I'm just some goon of his, attempting to help him out. Is there anything else you would like to know that I can't possibly prove to you, one way or another? Explain that picture nonsense then. His "evidence" makes it clear that he's a troll trying to keep the drama going in this thread. Funny how he claims that he's trying to help Spades yet Spades himself was the one who debunked his bogus picture analysis.
/facepalm.
User was warned for this post
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On June 07 2012 06:48 Nyast wrote:
What is the most disturbing for me is the end of that game on TDA, when he unsieges ALL his tanks at his natural to come back in his main just in time to prepare for the doomsdrop. Luci's army could have been near his third or natural for all he knew, and I didn't see any hint to suggest that a doomsdrop was about to happen. I'd love to hear an explanation for that one.
The first hint is that LucifroN attacked from that same spot four times previous in that game. The second hint is the scan at 32:20 that catches blue movement to that spot. The third hint is the double scan LucifroN did to that spot the minute before the drop. And the fouth hint is the army at 6 moving up away from the 3rd which at this point is mined out.
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On June 07 2012 06:52 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:49 snam wrote:On June 07 2012 06:44 SolHeiM wrote:On June 07 2012 06:41 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:38 Shiori wrote:On June 07 2012 06:36 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:35 Reptilia wrote:On June 07 2012 06:34 Spades wrote:On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:
[quote]
how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis. I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure. We are clearly joking around here We are clearly trying to find objectively whether you are guilty or innocent.* Theres maybe 10 people objectively finding if I am guilty or innocent, I am not naive enough to think most of this is objective. I appreciate the objective people, and I hope they find results, one way or the other. It would help immensely if you were active in the investigation and actually tried to be honest with us rather than just sitting around until it's painstakingly figured out. And this is coming from someone who has defended you at more than one point in this thread. I spent 2 days going b ack and forth with people. I have Anaheim in 2 days. I dont have time to sit around this thread and defend myself all day. I've said what I can, I gave replays, I encourage people doing all this technical research. I left my team so they would avoid backlash from this situation such as emailing sponsors etc. What else do you want from me. No matter what I say, people deny and question it. I'm tired, I just want to practice for Anaheim and perform well, that's all I want to focus on for the next week. How about you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not hack? You can't do that, can you? Start your stream and show us how you can play say, 20 games in a row without ever looking in fog of war, and using your minimap to perform almost every single action. Please do that. Until you do that, I will take CatZ's word as conclusive evidence that you are a hacker. Because habits are almost impossible to just turn off day to day. Prove to us you can do that, and then I will start to believe you. Yeah, no. Thats the wrong way to go about this. There must be some other way to prove him guilty/not guilty. The burden of proof is on the accuser and in this case YOU would have to prove that he CANT do that. At this point Spades has to clear his name. As it stands he is damned. He can't just leave it because for most people the prosecution case has been convincing. He needs to present his defence.
Next time in Phoenix Wright...
TURNABOUT MAPHACK
This is really what it's starting to sound like though. Unless Spades can come up with incredibly conclusive evidence that he didn't maphack, (which he almost certainly can, if he is innocent and not lazy) he's screwed.
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On June 07 2012 06:53 Kitchen.Sink wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:48 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 06:43 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 06:41 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:38 Dodgin wrote:On June 07 2012 06:35 toiletCAT wrote:
Well, I couldn't care less if Spades is hacking or not, I'm in this to help stop the community from jumping to conclusions on very serious topics. Seems like you're just one of his friends that registered yesterday to help defend him. man this shit is good. Yep, seems that way. Signed up today "Lives in Qatar" to avoid anyone knowing his identity Tons of his posts are in this thread, including his first I actually live in Denmark, I signed up today because I thought I wanted to interact with the TL community. Since I know you didn't think this claim through, I'll say this anyway; good luck in your attempt to prove that I'm just some goon of his, attempting to help him out. Is there anything else you would like to know that I can't possibly prove to you, one way or another? Explain that picture nonsense then. His "evidence" makes it clear that he's a troll trying to keep the drama going in this thread. Funny how he claims that he's trying to help Spades yet Spades himself was the one who debunked his bogus picture analysis.
We've been over that. Leave the guy alone. He has made some valid arguments. He tried to say a legit picture wasn't legit because he read too much into it.
He's actually had some intelligent posts rather than just saying "derp you can't prove anything because you don't have 100% proof therefore you're wrong" like other defenders in this thread.
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EPT
