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[?] Spades hacking? - Page 257

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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here

10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.

08:47 KST - Summary:
Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.

Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.

(also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here)
hinnolinn
Profile Joined August 2010
212 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 21:30:53
June 06 2012 21:30 GMT
#5121
This thread delivers:

post of objective proof of Spades guilt
posts claiming Spades is 100% guilty
post with proof that the previous proof is not correct
posts claiming Spades is guilty anyway
repeat
Tropical Bob
Profile Joined August 2010
United States127 Posts
June 06 2012 21:31 GMT
#5122
On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:
I have 100% proof.

http://imgur.com/urSlB

This is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this.

[image loading]

EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook.

Someone from the Skype chat posted a picture on Facebook. This guy took it off and is merely trying to fuel the flames for no real reason other than to watch Spades burn.
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
June 06 2012 21:31 GMT
#5123
On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:
I have 100% proof.

http://imgur.com/urSlB

This is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this.

[image loading]

EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook.


This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously....

Entire log plz or no go.


Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid.

[4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way
[4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof
[4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later
[4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise
[4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot
[4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence
[4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely
[4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/
[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong
[4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever
[4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map
[4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net
[4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post
[4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong
[4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map
[4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe
[4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry
[4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago
This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP.
Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding -
Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc...
According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map.
Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking.
[4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen
[4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect
[4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother
[4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots
[4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap
[4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol
[4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl
[4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe
[4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit
[4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted"
[4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one
[4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like
[4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream
[4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps
[4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking
[4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence
[4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol
[4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great
[4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out
[4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like
[4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra
[4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan
[4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz
[4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz
[4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one
[4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put
[4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics
[4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker"
[4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something
[4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog
[4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock
[4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click
[4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg
[4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains
[4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^
[4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does
[4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it
[4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible
[4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times
[4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world
[4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect
[4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack
[4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL
[4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something
[4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable
[4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish
[4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer
[4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah
[4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL
[4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA
[4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol

Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before.



how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER

Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis.
I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there

Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure.
JustTray
Profile Joined May 2011
127 Posts
June 06 2012 21:31 GMT
#5124
On June 07 2012 06:30 hinnolinn wrote:
This thread delivers:

post of objective proof of Spades guilt
posts claiming Spades is 100% guilty
post with proof that the previous proof is not correct
posts claiming Spades is guilty anyway
repeat


Which of the dudes in that chat are you?

There's no doubt you're one of his cronies at this point. He has them in this thread, as is evidenced by the chat conversations outlining such.
Moonling
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States987 Posts
June 06 2012 21:32 GMT
#5125
Unless spades has a private hack that is different from the one that is going around. When the "camera freeze" happens when you are in the hack you can not perform actions while in camera freeze frame so basically of he freezes and his apm is 0 then he is doing it.

I think this is known information however at least I hope so.
1% of koreans control 99% of starcraft winnings. #occupykorea.
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
June 06 2012 21:32 GMT
#5126
On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:
I have 100% proof.

http://imgur.com/urSlB

This is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this.

[image loading]

EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook.


This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously....

Entire log plz or no go.


Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid.

[4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way
[4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof
[4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later
[4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise
[4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot
[4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence
[4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely
[4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/
[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong
[4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever
[4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map
[4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net
[4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post
[4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong
[4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map
[4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe
[4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry
[4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago
This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP.
Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding -
Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc...
According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map.
Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking.
[4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen
[4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect
[4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother
[4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots
[4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap
[4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol
[4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl
[4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe
[4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit
[4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted"
[4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one
[4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like
[4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream
[4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps
[4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking
[4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence
[4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol
[4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great
[4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out
[4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like
[4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra
[4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan
[4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz
[4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz
[4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one
[4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put
[4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics
[4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker"
[4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something
[4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog
[4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock
[4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click
[4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg
[4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains
[4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^
[4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does
[4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it
[4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible
[4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times
[4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world
[4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect
[4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack
[4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL
[4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something
[4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable
[4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish
[4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer
[4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah
[4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL
[4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA
[4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol

Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before.



how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER

Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis.
I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there

Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure.


Let's try to not get into the whole "reading into someone's internet typing reactions" thing. Not really reliable. Stick to hard evidence plz.
Reptilia
Profile Joined June 2010
Chile913 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 21:34:40
June 06 2012 21:32 GMT
#5127
On June 07 2012 06:30 StarStrider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:25 toiletCAT wrote:
I take it back, I take it back!

Haha, I'm sorry, I got it the other way around because I'm using Photoshop. I'm sorry, I'm tired. That was embarrassing. I'm so sorry, lol.


You saw the errors in it you wanted to see, because making it look shooped just puts another tick next to your agenda's column. Now you're backpeddling and blaming a motivated choice on being too sleepy and not being familiar enough with software. I no longer trust your opinion, sorry. You can't lol my bad your way out of that.

i know right. people can't make mistakes.


the picture is "proven" to be real but taken out of context. that conversation is useless. this doesnt mean he is guilty, or innocent. 0 information gained. and please ip ban the image poster.
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources
hinnolinn
Profile Joined August 2010
212 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 21:35:25
June 06 2012 21:33 GMT
#5128
On June 07 2012 06:30 StarStrider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:25 toiletCAT wrote:
I take it back, I take it back!

Haha, I'm sorry, I got it the other way around because I'm using Photoshop. I'm sorry, I'm tired. That was embarrassing. I'm so sorry, lol.


You saw the errors in it you wanted to see, because making it look shooped just puts another tick next to your agenda's column. Now you're backpeddling and blaming a motivated choice on being too sleepy and not being familiar enough with software. I no longer trust your opinion, sorry. You can't lol my bad your way out of that.


Seriously, you have been seeing what you want to see in every proof posted in this thread and then when it's been disproved you still call him a hacker, and you accuse another person of trying to "lol my bad" out of something?

On June 07 2012 04:32 StarStrider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 04:00 Hollow27 wrote:
Hi guys, tonycheese here. I'm currently a ~950 Masters (on my smurf I suppose), fairly inactive player on the NA server. There has recently been a touch of controversy about the Spades situation. Although it does seem painfully obvious to me that Spades is maphacking in the replays provided when compared to his normal replays, many still call for "conclusive" proof. And there has been fear that conclusive proof cannot and will not exist.
Well, I believe I have found a way to conclusively detect if camera locks (and therefore maphacks) have been used.
The way my detection method works is as follows:
When a maphacker's camera is locked, he is looking around in the fog of war, but the replay shows him looking somewhere else. So, the maphacker claims that his actions are done on the minimap, when in reality they are done directly on the normal map in the fog of war.
But, the minimap is limited to a grid, with the smallest unit of measurement being the pixel. When you click on the normal map you can achieve a much greater level of precision than on the minimap. And as far as I can tell, the minimap's grid is consistent and reproducable.
What does this mean? If we can find a point in the replay where the camera is not focused on the spot the maphacking player is clicking, and the player clicks on a spot that does not exist on the minimap grid, that player had the camera locked.
In my first attempt, I found a spot that I could not click on the minimap, when Spades' camera was focused on his back third in daybreak, and he sent an scv to build the forward third "on the minimap".
Here are the sc2gears logs of my attempts at minimap clicking the spot next to the gas geyser. I will upload replays of these two attempts momentarily.
http://i.imgur.com/eB97S.png
If people cannot find holes in my detection method, I believe we do have a painful, but systematic way of detecting any maphacks where camera locks are used.
Edit: Here are my replay files, not sure how long rapidshare will keep these up, though: https://www.rapidshare.com/#!download|433|104782746|Minimap_clicking.zip|156
EDIT: As batterseapower pointed out below, I have not tested minimap clicking in, uh, every available resolution. And I don't really have the means to do it right now, so if someone else is super bored that would be appreciated.
However, you can see that the jumps on the map happen in units of 1.4 and .8 when running at 1600x900 resolution, meaning the jumps will still be very large at a larger resolution, meaning this is hopefully still a viable method of detection.





Quoting a post on reddit from a guy without a TL account; all credit to measuredinyears on reddit. If this pans out, could this be the conclusive proof necessary?
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/




Thanks for finally breaking the case tonycheese. You win a billion esports dollars this day.

/thread.

StarStrider
Profile Joined August 2011
United States689 Posts
June 06 2012 21:33 GMT
#5129
Bear in mind that people from both sides of this argument helped confirm or deny the validity of the 'minimap pixel grid' theory.

There are people who honestly want to get to the bottom of this on both sides of the argument.

Spades, regardless of how it seems, many people are actually trying to figure this out objectively and are not automatically demonizing you off the cuff without proving it to themselves and others first, alright bro?
Spontaneous Pneumothorax sucks, please keep MVP sC in your thoughts. sC fighting! 힘내세요
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
June 06 2012 21:33 GMT
#5130
I assume this thread has been kept open for the hilarity of it all.
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 21:34:36
June 06 2012 21:34 GMT
#5131
On June 07 2012 06:32 EtherealDeath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:
I have 100% proof.

http://imgur.com/urSlB

This is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this.

[image loading]

EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook.


This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously....

Entire log plz or no go.


Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid.

[4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way
[4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof
[4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later
[4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise
[4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot
[4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence
[4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely
[4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/
[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong
[4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever
[4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map
[4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net
[4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post
[4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong
[4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map
[4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe
[4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry
[4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago
This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP.
Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding -
Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc...
According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map.
Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking.
[4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen
[4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect
[4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother
[4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots
[4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap
[4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol
[4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl
[4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe
[4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit
[4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted"
[4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one
[4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like
[4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream
[4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps
[4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking
[4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence
[4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol
[4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great
[4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out
[4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like
[4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra
[4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan
[4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz
[4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz
[4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one
[4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put
[4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics
[4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker"
[4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something
[4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog
[4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock
[4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click
[4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg
[4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains
[4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^
[4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does
[4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it
[4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible
[4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times
[4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world
[4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect
[4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack
[4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL
[4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something
[4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable
[4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish
[4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer
[4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah
[4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL
[4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA
[4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol

Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before.



how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER

Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis.
I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there

Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure.


Let's try to not get into the whole "reading into someone's internet typing reactions" thing. Not really reliable. Stick to hard evidence plz.

That's why I want an explanation about the reaction.

I don't know him personally and I've never even seen him irl, so I can't know anything unless I ask.
Spades
Profile Joined September 2010
United States249 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 21:35:55
June 06 2012 21:34 GMT
#5132
On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:
I have 100% proof.

http://imgur.com/urSlB

This is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this.

[image loading]

EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook.


This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously....

Entire log plz or no go.


Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid.

[4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way
[4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof
[4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later
[4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise
[4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot
[4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence
[4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely
[4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/
[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong
[4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever
[4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map
[4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net
[4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post
[4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong
[4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map
[4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe
[4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry
[4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago
This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP.
Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding -
Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc...
According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map.
Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking.
[4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen
[4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect
[4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother
[4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots
[4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap
[4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol
[4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl
[4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe
[4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit
[4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted"
[4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one
[4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like
[4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream
[4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps
[4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking
[4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence
[4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol
[4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great
[4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out
[4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like
[4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra
[4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan
[4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz
[4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz
[4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one
[4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put
[4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics
[4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker"
[4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something
[4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog
[4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock
[4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click
[4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg
[4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains
[4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^
[4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does
[4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it
[4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible
[4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times
[4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world
[4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect
[4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack
[4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL
[4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something
[4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable
[4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish
[4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer
[4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah
[4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL
[4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA
[4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol

Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before.



how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER

Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis.
I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there

Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure.


We are clearly joking around here. And i know people are proving/disproving the technical debates, and they are keeping me updated with PM's. I'm not reading the whole thread and waiting, im practicing for Anahiem. Anyone who knows me knows that I have thick skin, and I have no problem joking around and being light about this with friends. It's a very serious matter, but I can still have a laugh with friends about things we find funny.
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 21:35:20
June 06 2012 21:35 GMT
#5133
On June 07 2012 06:34 Spades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:
I have 100% proof.

http://imgur.com/urSlB

This is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this.

[image loading]

EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook.


This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously....

Entire log plz or no go.


Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid.

[4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way
[4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof
[4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later
[4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise
[4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot
[4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence
[4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely
[4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/
[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong
[4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever
[4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map
[4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net
[4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post
[4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong
[4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map
[4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe
[4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry
[4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago
This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP.
Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding -
Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc...
According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map.
Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking.
[4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen
[4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect
[4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother
[4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots
[4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap
[4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol
[4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl
[4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe
[4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit
[4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted"
[4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one
[4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like
[4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream
[4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps
[4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking
[4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence
[4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol
[4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great
[4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out
[4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like
[4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra
[4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan
[4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz
[4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz
[4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one
[4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put
[4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics
[4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker"
[4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something
[4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog
[4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock
[4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click
[4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg
[4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains
[4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^
[4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does
[4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it
[4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible
[4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times
[4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world
[4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect
[4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack
[4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL
[4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something
[4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable
[4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish
[4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer
[4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah
[4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL
[4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA
[4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol

Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before.



how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER

Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis.
I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there

Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure.


We are clearly joking around here

The whole thread, not the chat.
toiletCAT
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Qatar284 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 21:35:24
June 06 2012 21:35 GMT
#5134
Well, I couldn't care less if Spades is hacking or not, I'm in this to help stop the community from jumping to conclusions on very serious topics.
revel8
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom3022 Posts
June 06 2012 21:35 GMT
#5135
On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:

how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER


Do you really think you should be joking about this? Why don't you try and exonerate yourself? Do you play using the minimap to perform scans? How do you explain using a scouting worker and never once looking at what it subsequently scouted in the base? Why are you not fighting hard for your career? Why not seek to specifically address the suspicious incidents in certain games that have been discussed in this thread? Why did you leave your team? If you were innocent, why part ways with them? By not fighting to clear your reputation, it will never be cleared. So laughing at this situation is not exactly helping you.
Reptilia
Profile Joined June 2010
Chile913 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-06 21:38:41
June 06 2012 21:35 GMT
#5136
On June 07 2012 06:34 Spades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:
I have 100% proof.

http://imgur.com/urSlB

This is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this.

[image loading]

EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook.


This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously....

Entire log plz or no go.


Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid.

[4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way
[4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof
[4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later
[4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise
[4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot
[4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence
[4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely
[4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/
[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong
[4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever
[4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map
[4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net
[4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post
[4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong
[4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map
[4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe
[4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry
[4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago
This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP.
Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding -
Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc...
According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map.
Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking.
[4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen
[4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect
[4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother
[4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots
[4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap
[4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol
[4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl
[4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe
[4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit
[4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted"
[4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one
[4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like
[4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream
[4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps
[4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking
[4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence
[4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol
[4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great
[4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out
[4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like
[4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra
[4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan
[4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz
[4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz
[4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one
[4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put
[4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics
[4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker"
[4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something
[4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog
[4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock
[4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click
[4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg
[4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains
[4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^
[4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does
[4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it
[4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible
[4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times
[4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world
[4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect
[4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack
[4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL
[4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something
[4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable
[4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish
[4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer
[4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah
[4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL
[4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA
[4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol

Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before.



how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER

Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis.
I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there

Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure.


We are clearly joking around here

We are clearly trying to find objectively whether you are guilty or innocent.*

oh... you meant in the chat. my bad. but we are on your side if you are innocent. so trying to find ways to detect and get busted is good for you. You dont want this thread closed and no official results.
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources
StarStrider
Profile Joined August 2011
United States689 Posts
June 06 2012 21:36 GMT
#5137
On June 07 2012 06:33 hinnolinn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:30 StarStrider wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:25 toiletCAT wrote:
I take it back, I take it back!

Haha, I'm sorry, I got it the other way around because I'm using Photoshop. I'm sorry, I'm tired. That was embarrassing. I'm so sorry, lol.


You saw the errors in it you wanted to see, because making it look shooped just puts another tick next to your agenda's column. Now you're backpeddling and blaming a motivated choice on being too sleepy and not being familiar enough with software. I no longer trust your opinion, sorry. You can't lol my bad your way out of that.


Seriously, you have been seeing what you want to see in every proof posted in this thread and then when it's been disproved you still call him a hacker, and you accuse another person of trying "lol my bad" of something?

Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 04:32 StarStrider wrote:
On June 07 2012 04:00 Hollow27 wrote:
Hi guys, tonycheese here. I'm currently a ~950 Masters (on my smurf I suppose), fairly inactive player on the NA server. There has recently been a touch of controversy about the Spades situation. Although it does seem painfully obvious to me that Spades is maphacking in the replays provided when compared to his normal replays, many still call for "conclusive" proof. And there has been fear that conclusive proof cannot and will not exist.
Well, I believe I have found a way to conclusively detect if camera locks (and therefore maphacks) have been used.
The way my detection method works is as follows:
When a maphacker's camera is locked, he is looking around in the fog of war, but the replay shows him looking somewhere else. So, the maphacker claims that his actions are done on the minimap, when in reality they are done directly on the normal map in the fog of war.
But, the minimap is limited to a grid, with the smallest unit of measurement being the pixel. When you click on the normal map you can achieve a much greater level of precision than on the minimap. And as far as I can tell, the minimap's grid is consistent and reproducable.
What does this mean? If we can find a point in the replay where the camera is not focused on the spot the maphacking player is clicking, and the player clicks on a spot that does not exist on the minimap grid, that player had the camera locked.
In my first attempt, I found a spot that I could not click on the minimap, when Spades' camera was focused on his back third in daybreak, and he sent an scv to build the forward third "on the minimap".
Here are the sc2gears logs of my attempts at minimap clicking the spot next to the gas geyser. I will upload replays of these two attempts momentarily.
http://i.imgur.com/eB97S.png
If people cannot find holes in my detection method, I believe we do have a painful, but systematic way of detecting any maphacks where camera locks are used.
Edit: Here are my replay files, not sure how long rapidshare will keep these up, though: https://www.rapidshare.com/#!download|433|104782746|Minimap_clicking.zip|156
EDIT: As batterseapower pointed out below, I have not tested minimap clicking in, uh, every available resolution. And I don't really have the means to do it right now, so if someone else is super bored that would be appreciated.
However, you can see that the jumps on the map happen in units of 1.4 and .8 when running at 1600x900 resolution, meaning the jumps will still be very large at a larger resolution, meaning this is hopefully still a viable method of detection.





Quoting a post on reddit from a guy without a TL account; all credit to measuredinyears on reddit. If this pans out, could this be the conclusive proof necessary?
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/




Thanks for finally breaking the case tonycheese. You win a billion esports dollars this day.

/thread.



I believed a theory before it had been proven correct. He set out to prove a false hypothesis. I think they are two different things.

I was wrong to run with the tonycheese theory that early. I apologize if my acceptance of the theory led others to accept it too early. However I dont think my opinion really matters that highly.
Spontaneous Pneumothorax sucks, please keep MVP sC in your thoughts. sC fighting! 힘내세요
Spades
Profile Joined September 2010
United States249 Posts
June 06 2012 21:36 GMT
#5138
On June 07 2012 06:35 Reptilia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:34 Spades wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:31 Antylamon wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:18 Antylamon wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 07 2012 06:15 Spades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:11 EtherealDeath wrote:
On June 07 2012 06:05 SonataSC wrote:
I have 100% proof.

http://imgur.com/urSlB

This is from his facebook. I made this account just to post this.

[image loading]

EDIT: It's from Skype not facebook.


This sounds like something taken out of context that is a joking stab at (hack not named), rather than something said seriously....

Entire log plz or no go.


Here is more of the log, I dont know who this is, but apparently hes in a skype chat with me and like 20 other people. He's taking something out of context and being stupid.

[4:27:01 PM] Brian Francis: you saw they posted some new way
[4:27:04 PM] Brian Francis: of saying its 100% proof
[4:27:09 PM] Brian Francis: then it got proved wrong l ike a page later
[4:27:17 PM] Brian Francis: how catz said my clicks were too precise
[4:27:18 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:27:27 PM] Michael Francis: catz is an idiot
[4:27:33 PM] Brian Francis: everything he used as solid evidence
[4:27:34 PM] Michael Francis: precisely
[4:27:35 PM] Daltan Beach: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/uoc3a/conclusive_proof_that_spades_was_hacking/
[4:27:36 PM] Brian Francis: has been proven wrong
[4:27:38 PM] Daltan Beach: funniest shit ever
[4:27:56 PM] Daltan Beach: Post a picture of yourself reading a map
[4:27:59 PM] Brian Francis: yeah he posted that on TL.net
[4:28:00 PM] Daltan Beach: or atleast find one that i can post
[4:28:02 PM] Brian Francis: and it was proven wrong
[4:28:15 PM] Daltan Beach: If you give me a picture of you reading a map
[4:28:16 PM] Daltan Beach: or using a globe
[4:28:23 PM] Daltan Beach: Ill cry
[4:28:40 PM] Daltan Beach: [–]NeoDestiny 148 points 51 minutes ago
This is 100% conclusive. Really smart of the OP.
Here's the laymen's version if you're having trouble understanding -
Say you have a "real map" that is 1000x1000, and a "minimap" that is 100x100. This means that all of your clicks on the minimap are essentially multiplied by 10 to determine where they would fall on the real map. ie: clicking on 25x50 on the minimap would correspond to 250x500 on the real map, 46x89 would correspond to 460x890 on the real map, etc...etc...
According to Spades, he was clicking on the minimap to perform a lot of actions instead of scrolling into the fog of war to perform those same actions. The problem is that, during the replay, Spades screen is locked so that he must be clicking the minimap, but the clicks he's making are too precise to come from the minimap. Using our previous example, Spades is essentially claiming to be clicking a point like 252x582 on the minimap, which is impossible, as the closest we could get to that point is 25x58 or 26x59 on our minimap. Given the dimensions of the minimap, he is clicking with a precision that is impossible on the real map.
Clicks with that precision on the real map while the screen is locked means that one can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that Spades is maphacking.
[4:29:21 PM] Michael Francis: just take a picture of a globe next to your computer screen
[4:29:31 PM] Daltan Beach: thats perfect
[4:29:39 PM] Daltan Beach: thx spades' brother
[4:29:40 PM] Brian Francis: yeah then people on tl proved u can easily click those spots
[4:29:43 PM] Brian Francis: using minimap
[4:29:46 PM] Michael Francis: lol
[4:29:50 PM] Tito Santiago: rofl
[4:30:04 PM] Brian Francis: i dont own a globe
[4:30:11 PM] Michael Francis: how do i post on reddit
[4:30:14 PM] Michael Francis: "myth busted"
[4:30:25 PM] Tito Santiago: go find one
[4:30:34 PM] Tito Santiago: or like
[4:30:36 PM] Tito Santiago: stream
[4:30:44 PM] Tito Santiago: and while streaming open a map of the world on google maps
[4:30:50 PM] Daltan Beach: Let's accuse some pro of hacking
[4:30:53 PM] Daltan Beach: with no evidence
[4:30:54 PM] Tito Santiago: Lol
[4:30:57 PM] Daltan Beach: it'll be great
[4:31:02 PM] Daltan Beach: who has a lot of replays out
[4:31:05 PM] Daltan Beach: and we dont like
[4:31:27 PM] Michael Francis: lets accuse idra
[4:31:29 PM] Tito Santiago: hey daltan
[4:31:30 PM] Michael Francis: or catz
[4:31:33 PM] Tito Santiago: take that picture of catz
[4:31:39 PM] Tito Santiago: the judge one
[4:31:40 PM] Tito Santiago: and put
[4:31:53 PM] Michael Francis: i like how catz somehow knew all this information about the 'hack' mechanics
[4:31:54 PM] Tito Santiago: "Can't find a single note while singing, thinks he can find a hacker"
[4:31:59 PM] Tito Santiago: and post it on something
[4:31:59 PM] Michael Francis: like, oh if you right click into fog
[4:32:03 PM] Michael Francis: it doesn't lock
[4:32:15 PM] Michael Francis: but when your scrolling into the fog, shouldn't it lock before u ahve a chance to right click
[4:32:20 PM] Michael Francis: gg
[4:32:26 PM] Brian Francis: people have small brains
[4:32:32 PM] Tito Santiago: ^
[4:32:45 PM] Brian Francis: basically everything the hack does
[4:32:50 PM] Brian Francis: they cant prove i did any of it
[4:32:54 PM] Brian Francis: nor can they prove its possible
[4:33:01 PM] Brian Francis: because i do actions in these "camera lock" times
[4:33:05 PM] Michael Francis: basically your the best hacker in the world
[4:33:08 PM] Michael Francis: kids need to respect
[4:33:08 PM] Brian Francis: so people say I must have made my own private supe rhack
[4:33:12 PM] Tito Santiago: LOL
[4:33:12 PM] Brian Francis: or something
[4:33:19 PM] Michael Francis: undetectable
[4:33:21 PM] Brian Francis: they think this is swordfish
[4:33:23 PM] Brian Francis: or some shit
[4:33:31 PM] Michael Francis: since your a computer programmer
[4:33:42 PM] Tito Santiago: hahahah
[4:34:09 PM] Daltan Beach: terran 3/15 or some shit in GSL
[4:34:16 PM] Daltan Beach: fucking IMBA
[4:35:44 PM] Tito Santiago: lol

Now THAT sounds even more suspicious than before.



how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER

Oh, wow, I just found out you are Brian Francis.
I thought you got someone else to write the program for a sec there

Also, your reaction to the entire thing is soooo suspicious. I would've raged at everyone in sight if this happened to me, but you've only done that to a couple people. Can you address that? I don't want to call you out with certainty until I can be 110% sure.


We are clearly joking around here

We are clearly trying to find objectively whether you are guilty or innocent.*

Theres maybe 10 people objectively finding if I am guilty or innocent, I am not naive enough to think most of this is objective. I appreciate the objective people, and I hope they find results, one way or the other.
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
June 06 2012 21:37 GMT
#5139
On June 07 2012 06:35 revel8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:

how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER


Do you really think you should be joking about this? Why don't you try and exonerate yourself? Do you play using the minimap to perform scans? How do you explain using a scouting worker and never once looking at what it subsequently scouted in the base? Why are you not fighting hard for your career? Why not seek to specifically address the suspicious incidents in certain games that have been discussed in this thread? Why did you leave your team? If you were innocent, why part ways with them? By not fighting to clear your reputation, it will never be cleared. So laughing at this situation is not exactly helping you.


Dude it was what he thought was a private chat with friends that wouldn't end up on teamliquid. People tend to joke around and shit in those.

Hell, I was talking to a friend about this yesterday and one of the first things he said was something like "lol this drama, hey I should accuse you anonymously of being a maphacker, let's get some replays together that would support it."
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
June 06 2012 21:38 GMT
#5140
On June 07 2012 06:35 toiletCAT wrote:
Well, I couldn't care less if Spades is hacking or not, I'm in this to help stop the community from jumping to conclusions on very serious topics.


Seems like you're just one of his friends that registered yesterday to help defend him. man this shit is good.
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