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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 06 2012 09:32 StreetWise wrote:
Reading through this thread I have several questions:
1. Who is the Judge in this matter. People keep saying he is innocent until proven guilty. Who is going to pronounce him innocent or guilty if not the community as a whole?
2. Secondly, its been mentioned that Spades hacked in BW. How was he caught/proven guilty back then and can the same methods be applied?
It's called the court of public opinion and it's real. Just ask OJ Simpson about it. If the community deems him guilty his sponsors will probably not like that. Nobody wants to invest in an OJ Simpson spokesman.
The method he got caught in bw by was because bw maphacks didnt have the failsafes sc2 ones have. Also when you've been maphacking for over a decade you learn what not to do. I.E. don't stare at proxy buildings out in the middle of nowhere, but with today's hacks you can do that and nobody knows because of the ol' screen lock.
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Whether or not he's cheating is something I cannot answer, although I could never get around the thinking of the Spades vs theognis battle in Antiga around the 16 minute mark from a player's perspective.
Why would someone do action 1 (see screenshot below) from the main screen :
+ Show Spoiler +
And action 2 (see screenshot below) from the mini-map? Seems very inefficient.
+ Show Spoiler +
It's also interesting to note that before doing this previous movement, he actually rallies the same Marine at these two exact spots (his camera is still in the middle). Why would the same player then proceed 5 seconds to send only one spotter and leave one area undefended (his camera is still in the middle)?
+ Show Spoiler +Action 1a Marine Spotting: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Y9y2I.png) Action 2a same Marine Spotting: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RsHpn.png)
Here's a brief 20 15 seconds overview of the movements (one from the Player's perspective and one with the mini-map seeing everything).
+ Show Spoiler +forgive the quality.![[image loading]](http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1881/armymovement.gif)
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With spades bowing out of WW, I can't help but feel he is buckling to the growing allegations. IMO sign of weakness and guilt.
Peace out Spades, your conscience speaks for itself.
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On June 06 2012 10:07 Monochromatic wrote:
Why doesn't someone download the maphacks and see how they work so we can just get this whole thing cleared up.
I think it would be productive if we had someone who was familiar with these hacks to a degree that they could point out certain definitive things in the replay that proves without a doubt that some tomfoolery happened. I hear a lot of people talking about camera lock, positioning insights that are unlikely and certain other potentially damning clues, but I am reluctant condemn him as a cheater without having a bit more knowledge of the means by which he potentially hacked and how they operate. I myself am unwilling to even go to a website that hosts this sort of thing, let alone install them and use them even for research into the matter. But maybe someone like the Zergthrowaway guy on reddit or someone who knows a few people who use SC2 hacks intimately could weigh in on the subject with a little more depth, despite their now nefarious rep in the community.
The one part of this that really does stink to me is the apparent multiplicity of instances. Although they are few and far between enough to seem, on one level, purely circumstantial, the fact that this issues has come up numerous times with a single personality in our community does bother me a great deal. That compounded by more replays slowly trickling into light that confirm the darkest suspicions about Spades make for an all in all ruinous set of circumstances for him, innocent or not.
I hope someone can figure out more surefire ways of detecting cheating and hacking as discussed in this thread. Firstly to protect innocent players who could be wrongly accused, but most importantly to protect the integrity of our game, scene and tournaments.
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On June 06 2012 10:27 skeptic916 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 10:07 Monochromatic wrote:
Why doesn't someone download the maphacks and see how they work so we can just get this whole thing cleared up. I think it would be productive if we had someone who was familiar with these hacks to a degree that they could point out certain definitive things in the replay that proves without a doubt that some tomfoolery happened. I hear a lot of people talking about camera lock, positioning insights that are unlikely and certain other potentially damning clues, but I am reluctant condemn him as a cheater without having a bit more knowledge of the means by which he potentially hacked and how they operate. I myself am unwilling to even go to a website that hosts this sort of thing, let alone install them and use them even for research into the matter. But maybe someone like the Zergthrowaway guy on reddit or someone who knows a few people who use SC2 hacks intimately could weigh in on the subject with a little more depth, despite their now nefarious rep in the community. The one part of this that really does stink to me is the apparent multiplicity of instances. Although they are few and far between enough to seem, on one level, purely circumstantial, the fact that this issues has come up numerous times with a single personality in our community does bother me a great deal. That compounded by more replays slowly trickling into light that confirm the darkest suspicions about Spades make for an all in all ruinous set of circumstances for him, innocent or not. I hope someone can figure out more surefire ways of detecting cheating and hacking as discussed in this thread. Firstly to protect innocent players who could be wrongly accused, but most importantly to protect the integrity of our game, scene and tournaments.
I'll quote myself. See the description of both Camera lock and Watch player camera.
On June 06 2012 09:50 warshop wrote:An exhaustive list of features of a paid maphack : + Show Spoiler +Features:
Warden Protection
Version checker
Configurable hotkeys
3-state Maphack
-> Show units on mainmap & minimap
-> Show invisible/burrowed units
-> Show hallucinated units
-> Show Zerg creep
-> Hear sounds under fog of war
-> Enable selections under fog of war (client-sided)
-> View what your enemy is training/researching or the contents of selected
-> Graphical bugs fixed
Camera Lock
Show player selections
Show player clicks
Enable observer panel
-> Set to Production tab when game starts
-> Filter out local player
-> Filter out allied players
-> Filter out unwanted units and researches
-> Apply filtering for units and researches after X game seconds
-> Allow clicks through Production and Units tab information
Enable color/race icon
Watch player camera
Auto-start
-> Auto-mine minerals
-> Auto-create 1 worker
-> Auto-rally main building to local mineral patch
Auto-larva
-> Auto-group queens
Auto-mule
Auto-group buildings
Award achievements
Tac nuke strike alert
Nydus worm alert
Unit alert
Camera zoom out
Instant win against A.I. Also, here's a description of the interesting features : Camera lockLock your current camera position and save selected so you can freely look around the map so that your camera movement and selections are not recorded into replay. Use this when necassary to help avoid suspicious camera movement in your replays. If you happen to leave this feature on and try to command any units it will automatically turn off, this is a safety feature so that you don't leave it on by accident. Watch player cameraWatch the camera movement of any player in real time, it also works like camera lock so everything is client-sided and not saved into the replay.
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Still disgusted 40 pages later. The people in this thread are doing way worse things in spreading hate and allegations than Spades ever ALLEDGEDLY did to some poor ladder noobs.
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On June 06 2012 10:30 warshop wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 10:27 skeptic916 wrote:On June 06 2012 10:07 Monochromatic wrote:
Why doesn't someone download the maphacks and see how they work so we can just get this whole thing cleared up. I think it would be productive if we had someone who was familiar with these hacks to a degree that they could point out certain definitive things in the replay that proves without a doubt that some tomfoolery happened. I hear a lot of people talking about camera lock, positioning insights that are unlikely and certain other potentially damning clues, but I am reluctant condemn him as a cheater without having a bit more knowledge of the means by which he potentially hacked and how they operate. I myself am unwilling to even go to a website that hosts this sort of thing, let alone install them and use them even for research into the matter. But maybe someone like the Zergthrowaway guy on reddit or someone who knows a few people who use SC2 hacks intimately could weigh in on the subject with a little more depth, despite their now nefarious rep in the community. The one part of this that really does stink to me is the apparent multiplicity of instances. Although they are few and far between enough to seem, on one level, purely circumstantial, the fact that this issues has come up numerous times with a single personality in our community does bother me a great deal. That compounded by more replays slowly trickling into light that confirm the darkest suspicions about Spades make for an all in all ruinous set of circumstances for him, innocent or not. I hope someone can figure out more surefire ways of detecting cheating and hacking as discussed in this thread. Firstly to protect innocent players who could be wrongly accused, but most importantly to protect the integrity of our game, scene and tournaments. I'll quote myself. See the description of both Camera lock and Watch player camera. Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 09:50 warshop wrote:An exhaustive list of features of a paid maphack : + Show Spoiler +Features:
Warden Protection
Version checker
Configurable hotkeys
3-state Maphack
-> Show units on mainmap & minimap
-> Show invisible/burrowed units
-> Show hallucinated units
-> Show Zerg creep
-> Hear sounds under fog of war
-> Enable selections under fog of war (client-sided)
-> View what your enemy is training/researching or the contents of selected
-> Graphical bugs fixed
Camera Lock
Show player selections
Show player clicks
Enable observer panel
-> Set to Production tab when game starts
-> Filter out local player
-> Filter out allied players
-> Filter out unwanted units and researches
-> Apply filtering for units and researches after X game seconds
-> Allow clicks through Production and Units tab information
Enable color/race icon
Watch player camera
Auto-start
-> Auto-mine minerals
-> Auto-create 1 worker
-> Auto-rally main building to local mineral patch
Auto-larva
-> Auto-group queens
Auto-mule
Auto-group buildings
Award achievements
Tac nuke strike alert
Nydus worm alert
Unit alert
Camera zoom out
Instant win against A.I. Also, here's a description of the interesting features : Camera lockLock your current camera position and save selected so you can freely look around the map so that your camera movement and selections are not recorded into replay. Use this when necassary to help avoid suspicious camera movement in your replays. If you happen to leave this feature on and try to command any units it will automatically turn off, this is a safety feature so that you don't leave it on by accident. Watch player cameraWatch the camera movement of any player in real time, it also works like camera lock so everything is client-sided and not saved into the replay.
I must have missed this, my apologies. I'm not well versed in the tech aspects, does the client side have a big role to play in this? Would replays from Spade's PC show a slightly different version using this application?
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On June 06 2012 10:18 starcraft911 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 09:32 StreetWise wrote:
Reading through this thread I have several questions:
1. Who is the Judge in this matter. People keep saying he is innocent until proven guilty. Who is going to pronounce him innocent or guilty if not the community as a whole?
2. Secondly, its been mentioned that Spades hacked in BW. How was he caught/proven guilty back then and can the same methods be applied? It's called the court of public opinion and it's real. Just ask OJ Simpson about it. If the community deems him guilty his sponsors will probably not like that. Nobody wants to invest in an OJ Simpson spokesman. The method he got caught in bw by was because bw maphacks didnt have the failsafes sc2 ones have. Also when you've been maphacking for over a decade you learn what not to do. I.E. don't stare at proxy buildings out in the middle of nowhere, but with today's hacks you can do that and nobody knows because of the ol' screen lock.
Actually it was because of a safety feature that he was caught in BW. The hack would delete selections of enemy units from the replays, to hide selections of units that the player should not have vision of if he were not hacking. However it is so highly unusual that enemy units were never selected ever(which good players did to check upgrades); it was discovered because of a lack of a normal activity, rather than an abundance of suspicious activity.
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=69911Explanation of method When you select units (men/buildings) it is recorded in the replay. However, some map hacks remove the recording of selections on units which are not your own. This happens in any game type (UMS, Melee, etc.) and regardless of the number of players. The reason for this is because previously hackers have been caught by analyzing the replay and finding cases of them clicking on things which they could not see without a map hack. Because selecting an enemy unit is the only way to see things like upgrades, health, build progress, or distinguish buildings that are identical while they build, decent players do this quite often. In a game over 15 minutes, over 99% of the time a good player will have at least one selection of an enemy unit. All of the players in this list have several games played in a row (which are over 15 minutes) and without ever clicking an enemy unit once. While for only one game, there might be a 1% chance of this happening to even a legitimate player, the chance of this happening 5 times in a row is roughly 1 out of 10 billion.
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Canada13405 Posts
On June 06 2012 10:32 skeptic916 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 10:30 warshop wrote:On June 06 2012 10:27 skeptic916 wrote:On June 06 2012 10:07 Monochromatic wrote:
Why doesn't someone download the maphacks and see how they work so we can just get this whole thing cleared up. I think it would be productive if we had someone who was familiar with these hacks to a degree that they could point out certain definitive things in the replay that proves without a doubt that some tomfoolery happened. I hear a lot of people talking about camera lock, positioning insights that are unlikely and certain other potentially damning clues, but I am reluctant condemn him as a cheater without having a bit more knowledge of the means by which he potentially hacked and how they operate. I myself am unwilling to even go to a website that hosts this sort of thing, let alone install them and use them even for research into the matter. But maybe someone like the Zergthrowaway guy on reddit or someone who knows a few people who use SC2 hacks intimately could weigh in on the subject with a little more depth, despite their now nefarious rep in the community. The one part of this that really does stink to me is the apparent multiplicity of instances. Although they are few and far between enough to seem, on one level, purely circumstantial, the fact that this issues has come up numerous times with a single personality in our community does bother me a great deal. That compounded by more replays slowly trickling into light that confirm the darkest suspicions about Spades make for an all in all ruinous set of circumstances for him, innocent or not. I hope someone can figure out more surefire ways of detecting cheating and hacking as discussed in this thread. Firstly to protect innocent players who could be wrongly accused, but most importantly to protect the integrity of our game, scene and tournaments. I'll quote myself. See the description of both Camera lock and Watch player camera. On June 06 2012 09:50 warshop wrote:An exhaustive list of features of a paid maphack : + Show Spoiler +Features:
Warden Protection
Version checker
Configurable hotkeys
3-state Maphack
-> Show units on mainmap & minimap
-> Show invisible/burrowed units
-> Show hallucinated units
-> Show Zerg creep
-> Hear sounds under fog of war
-> Enable selections under fog of war (client-sided)
-> View what your enemy is training/researching or the contents of selected
-> Graphical bugs fixed
Camera Lock
Show player selections
Show player clicks
Enable observer panel
-> Set to Production tab when game starts
-> Filter out local player
-> Filter out allied players
-> Filter out unwanted units and researches
-> Apply filtering for units and researches after X game seconds
-> Allow clicks through Production and Units tab information
Enable color/race icon
Watch player camera
Auto-start
-> Auto-mine minerals
-> Auto-create 1 worker
-> Auto-rally main building to local mineral patch
Auto-larva
-> Auto-group queens
Auto-mule
Auto-group buildings
Award achievements
Tac nuke strike alert
Nydus worm alert
Unit alert
Camera zoom out
Instant win against A.I. Also, here's a description of the interesting features : Camera lockLock your current camera position and save selected so you can freely look around the map so that your camera movement and selections are not recorded into replay. Use this when necassary to help avoid suspicious camera movement in your replays. If you happen to leave this feature on and try to command any units it will automatically turn off, this is a safety feature so that you don't leave it on by accident. Watch player cameraWatch the camera movement of any player in real time, it also works like camera lock so everything is client-sided and not saved into the replay. I must have missed this, my apologies. I'm not well versed in the tech aspects, does the client side have a big role to play in this? Would replays from Spade's PC show a slightly different version using this application?
Those features are stupidly stupidly exhaustive. It essentially plays the game for you. All you need is to sprinkle in some micro hacks and GG off Masters then GM you go.
This makes ladder seem so so broken. :/
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The people in this thread are doing way worse things in spreading hate and allegations than Spades ever ALLEDGEDLY did to some poor ladder noobs.
So you are perfectly fine with someone cheating in Starcraft 2 to get an advantage? And some of the players he map hacked against weren't just "poor ladder noobs", some of them were well known players.
Good riddance. The last thing we need in this scene is this BS hacking.
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On June 06 2012 10:36 Fueled wrote:
Good riddance. The last thing we need in this scene is this BS witchhunt.
fixed
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On June 06 2012 10:35 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 10:32 skeptic916 wrote:On June 06 2012 10:30 warshop wrote:On June 06 2012 10:27 skeptic916 wrote:On June 06 2012 10:07 Monochromatic wrote:
Why doesn't someone download the maphacks and see how they work so we can just get this whole thing cleared up. I think it would be productive if we had someone who was familiar with these hacks to a degree that they could point out certain definitive things in the replay that proves without a doubt that some tomfoolery happened. I hear a lot of people talking about camera lock, positioning insights that are unlikely and certain other potentially damning clues, but I am reluctant condemn him as a cheater without having a bit more knowledge of the means by which he potentially hacked and how they operate. I myself am unwilling to even go to a website that hosts this sort of thing, let alone install them and use them even for research into the matter. But maybe someone like the Zergthrowaway guy on reddit or someone who knows a few people who use SC2 hacks intimately could weigh in on the subject with a little more depth, despite their now nefarious rep in the community. The one part of this that really does stink to me is the apparent multiplicity of instances. Although they are few and far between enough to seem, on one level, purely circumstantial, the fact that this issues has come up numerous times with a single personality in our community does bother me a great deal. That compounded by more replays slowly trickling into light that confirm the darkest suspicions about Spades make for an all in all ruinous set of circumstances for him, innocent or not. I hope someone can figure out more surefire ways of detecting cheating and hacking as discussed in this thread. Firstly to protect innocent players who could be wrongly accused, but most importantly to protect the integrity of our game, scene and tournaments. I'll quote myself. See the description of both Camera lock and Watch player camera. On June 06 2012 09:50 warshop wrote:An exhaustive list of features of a paid maphack : + Show Spoiler +Features:
Warden Protection
Version checker
Configurable hotkeys
3-state Maphack
-> Show units on mainmap & minimap
-> Show invisible/burrowed units
-> Show hallucinated units
-> Show Zerg creep
-> Hear sounds under fog of war
-> Enable selections under fog of war (client-sided)
-> View what your enemy is training/researching or the contents of selected
-> Graphical bugs fixed
Camera Lock
Show player selections
Show player clicks
Enable observer panel
-> Set to Production tab when game starts
-> Filter out local player
-> Filter out allied players
-> Filter out unwanted units and researches
-> Apply filtering for units and researches after X game seconds
-> Allow clicks through Production and Units tab information
Enable color/race icon
Watch player camera
Auto-start
-> Auto-mine minerals
-> Auto-create 1 worker
-> Auto-rally main building to local mineral patch
Auto-larva
-> Auto-group queens
Auto-mule
Auto-group buildings
Award achievements
Tac nuke strike alert
Nydus worm alert
Unit alert
Camera zoom out
Instant win against A.I. Also, here's a description of the interesting features : Camera lockLock your current camera position and save selected so you can freely look around the map so that your camera movement and selections are not recorded into replay. Use this when necassary to help avoid suspicious camera movement in your replays. If you happen to leave this feature on and try to command any units it will automatically turn off, this is a safety feature so that you don't leave it on by accident. Watch player cameraWatch the camera movement of any player in real time, it also works like camera lock so everything is client-sided and not saved into the replay. I must have missed this, my apologies. I'm not well versed in the tech aspects, does the client side have a big role to play in this? Would replays from Spade's PC show a slightly different version using this application? Those features are stupidly stupidly exhaustive. It essentially plays the game for you. All you need is to sprinkle in some micro hacks and GG off Masters then GM you go. This makes ladder seem so so broken. :/
It seems an update to the UI is in order to discourage this sort of thing. Some way to make sure actions and views in game are accurately recorded and not circumvented by some basement app. I'd hate to think that this early in SC2 we may have to resort to third party hack detection just to protect people from LADDER cheating, let alone cheating players out tournaments out of money.
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ok, wow I spent way too much time reading close to 150 pages of this thread.
here's my overall opinion of this thread as a low NA gm terran player:
No one has responded to the fact that spades' game mechanics changed during the series with lucifron.
Most of the people defending him seem like trolls who ignore that one obvious fact which itself is a pretty huge giveaway...
Again, when you're at the GM level, something like using FOW vs the mini-map is so ingrained in your game mechanics that the huge disparity in use between his ladder matches and his series vs lucifron is something that cannot be brushed away.
This was stated for a few pages and no one defending him has refuted it or responded to it, which I don't understand..
Of course, his army movements are also extremely sketchy. This has already been stated by other top terrans. Because it's true.
All the other circumstantial evidence just help put the whole act in perspective (his past in cheating, statements from past teammates, etc.)
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On June 06 2012 10:11 artanis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 10:08 s4life wrote:On June 06 2012 10:05 Tewks44 wrote:On June 06 2012 10:02 s4life wrote:On June 06 2012 09:44 las91 wrote:On June 06 2012 09:40 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
I know as of MLG arena qualifier he didnt hack because I cheesed him 2 games in a row and won. Considering this is a series not mentioned in the scope of this particular (213 page O.o) thread I don't really understand the point of your post sir. This isn't a trial, character witnesses aren't exactly necessary... Character witnesses is all what the accusers have for evidence. Nothing conclusive has come out of all the replays so far. except for the multiple expert opinions that say he was hacking based on the replays. Which counters the multiple expert opinions which stated he didn't seem to have hacked.. Name them.
Nerchio and Attero come to mind.
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On June 06 2012 10:08 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 10:05 Tewks44 wrote:On June 06 2012 10:02 s4life wrote:On June 06 2012 09:44 las91 wrote:On June 06 2012 09:40 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
I know as of MLG arena qualifier he didnt hack because I cheesed him 2 games in a row and won. Considering this is a series not mentioned in the scope of this particular (213 page O.o) thread I don't really understand the point of your post sir. This isn't a trial, character witnesses aren't exactly necessary... Character witnesses is all what the accusers have for evidence. Nothing conclusive has come out of all the replays so far. except for the multiple expert opinions that say he was hacking based on the replays. Which counters the multiple expert opinions which stated he didn't seem to have hacked..
Nerchio is hardly multiple. cArn and Attero are pretty biased since cArn has lived with him in the GOM house and they're friends and Attero was his former teammate and they're friends.
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On June 06 2012 10:34 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 10:18 starcraft911 wrote:On June 06 2012 09:32 StreetWise wrote:
Reading through this thread I have several questions:
1. Who is the Judge in this matter. People keep saying he is innocent until proven guilty. Who is going to pronounce him innocent or guilty if not the community as a whole?
2. Secondly, its been mentioned that Spades hacked in BW. How was he caught/proven guilty back then and can the same methods be applied? It's called the court of public opinion and it's real. Just ask OJ Simpson about it. If the community deems him guilty his sponsors will probably not like that. Nobody wants to invest in an OJ Simpson spokesman. The method he got caught in bw by was because bw maphacks didnt have the failsafes sc2 ones have. Also when you've been maphacking for over a decade you learn what not to do. I.E. don't stare at proxy buildings out in the middle of nowhere, but with today's hacks you can do that and nobody knows because of the ol' screen lock. Actually it was because of a safety feature that he was caught in BW. The hack would delete selections of enemy units from the replays, to hide selections of units that the player should not have vision of if he were not hacking. However it is so highly unusual that enemy units were never selected ever(which good players did to check upgrades); it was discovered because of a lack of a normal activity, rather than an abundance of suspicious activity. + Show Spoiler +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=69911Explanation of method When you select units (men/buildings) it is recorded in the replay. However, some map hacks remove the recording of selections on units which are not your own. This happens in any game type (UMS, Melee, etc.) and regardless of the number of players. The reason for this is because previously hackers have been caught by analyzing the replay and finding cases of them clicking on things which they could not see without a map hack. Because selecting an enemy unit is the only way to see things like upgrades, health, build progress, or distinguish buildings that are identical while they build, decent players do this quite often. In a game over 15 minutes, over 99% of the time a good player will have at least one selection of an enemy unit. All of the players in this list have several games played in a row (which are over 15 minutes) and without ever clicking an enemy unit once. While for only one game, there might be a 1% chance of this happening to even a legitimate player, the chance of this happening 5 times in a row is roughly 1 out of 10 billion.
People should really read how he got caught in BW, he didnt click any enemy units for 14 entire games, he didnt get caught because MBS or automining or multiple selection, he did got caught because abnormal activity, he was guilty with way less data that what we have.
Right now there is a shit ton of abnormal activity, and people still dont believe he hacks lol. i guess you still believe he was innocent in BW.
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Game 4: Metalopolis
2:50 He selects his SCV and make it go back to his base, however, his camera is blocked on his barracks for about 5 seconds.
Load it up in sc2 gears as well. He didn't press a hot key. No keys pressed, camera locked and he selects his scv and moves him and this is clear sign of a camera lock. He locked his camera on one spot and selected an scv and moved it. (I actually don't think he did that and it was the auto-scout hack as if you follow 10298 he goes to the sign and just says meh lets go scout again and Spades is like WAIT come mine mate... and pulls him back)
And you could analyze the rest but I think he doesn't always hack. For whatever reason in this series he decided to try some hacks out. Not sure why.
So he hacked... Demote him to bronze and ban him for a month. (End of story) I don't get the calls for physical violence. I know it sucks playing against hackers but I am not confident blizzard can stop this. I think they will respond to reports that have replays that clearly show hacking but other than that I have very little faith. Online tournaments and online prize pools are in severe jeopardy unless blizzard or some third party introduces a guaranteed antihack solution. (Could be as simple as random screenshots saved with every replay that can be viewed at the score screen.)
Who knows. The current hacking frenzy is really depressing.
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On June 06 2012 10:44 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 10:11 artanis2 wrote:On June 06 2012 10:08 s4life wrote:On June 06 2012 10:05 Tewks44 wrote:On June 06 2012 10:02 s4life wrote:On June 06 2012 09:44 las91 wrote:On June 06 2012 09:40 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
I know as of MLG arena qualifier he didnt hack because I cheesed him 2 games in a row and won. Considering this is a series not mentioned in the scope of this particular (213 page O.o) thread I don't really understand the point of your post sir. This isn't a trial, character witnesses aren't exactly necessary... Character witnesses is all what the accusers have for evidence. Nothing conclusive has come out of all the replays so far. except for the multiple expert opinions that say he was hacking based on the replays. Which counters the multiple expert opinions which stated he didn't seem to have hacked.. Name them. Nerchio and Attero come to mind.
Haha, I've played Attero. No WAY he says this guy isn't hacking. Show me a quote.
Also, where was the discrepency between ladder games and the play in his show match disproven? Would love to see how that is rationally explained, since there is only one possible explanation.
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On June 06 2012 10:13 lisward wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 10:08 s4life wrote:On June 06 2012 10:05 Tewks44 wrote:On June 06 2012 10:02 s4life wrote:On June 06 2012 09:44 las91 wrote:On June 06 2012 09:40 ThE_OsToJiY wrote:
I know as of MLG arena qualifier he didnt hack because I cheesed him 2 games in a row and won. Considering this is a series not mentioned in the scope of this particular (213 page O.o) thread I don't really understand the point of your post sir. This isn't a trial, character witnesses aren't exactly necessary... Character witnesses is all what the accusers have for evidence. Nothing conclusive has come out of all the replays so far. except for the multiple expert opinions that say he was hacking based on the replays. Which counters the multiple expert opinions which stated he didn't seem to have hacked.. Way more pros have outed him based on the replays, and the ones who sided him were basically character witnesses.
Yeah I saw catz circus parade too. It was a blatantly amateur effort most of which was proven to be iffy or false. Unsurprisingly, being a pro at playing the game doesn't really qualify to make an unbiased opinion.
Nerchio did a detailed analysis so
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On June 06 2012 10:46 BalanceFx wrote:Show nested quote +Game 4: Metalopolis
2:50 He selects his SCV and make it go back to his base, however, his camera is blocked on his barracks for about 5 seconds. Load it up in sc2 gears as well. He didn't press a hot key. No keys pressed, camera locked and he selects his scv and moves him and this is clear sign of a camera lock. He locked his camera on one spot and selected an scv and moved it. (I actually don't think he did that and it was the auto-scout hack as if you follow 10298 he goes to the sign and just says meh lets go scout again and Spades is like WAIT come mine mate... and pulls him back) And you could analyze the rest but I think he doesn't always hack. For whatever reason in this series he decided to try some hacks out. Not sure why. So he hacked... Demote him to bronze and ban him for a month. (End of story) I don't get the calls for physical violence. I know it sucks playing against hackers but I am not confident blizzard can stop this. I think they will respond to reports that have replays that clearly show hacking but other than that I have very little faith. Online tournaments and online prize pools are in severe jeopardy unless blizzard or some third party introduces a guaranteed antihack solution. (Could be as simple as random screenshots saved with every replay that can be viewed at the score screen.) Who knows. The current hacking frenzy is really depressing.
Ban him for a month? If he has hacked, he should be severely punished, as in a lifetime ban. Cheating like this is unacceptable.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9Wmw2.png)
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