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On June 10 2012 17:16 Drascus wrote:
I get that these guys are amazing at BW, props to them for that. But this is not the same game, and the BW pros do not necessarily have to be good at SC2, just like Idra was the top Foreigner in BW but certainly is not in SC2.
I just felt the need to correct this: At no point in time was Idra ever considered the top foreigner in BW..ever. Not even close.
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He was the great white hope, then TSL2 happened.
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On June 10 2012 23:07 ahole-surprise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 17:16 Drascus wrote:
I get that these guys are amazing at BW, props to them for that. But this is not the same game, and the BW pros do not necessarily have to be good at SC2, just like Idra was the top Foreigner in BW but certainly is not in SC2. I just felt the need to correct this: At no point in time was Idra ever considered the top foreigner in BW..ever. Not even close.
If you ask artosis he was foreign bonjwa but no there was never much of a separation between him and other very good foreigners let alone a big one
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
Can anybody say, where can i get videos or replays of those games?
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On June 10 2012 23:07 ahole-surprise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 17:16 Drascus wrote:
I get that these guys are amazing at BW, props to them for that. But this is not the same game, and the BW pros do not necessarily have to be good at SC2, just like Idra was the top Foreigner in BW but certainly is not in SC2. I just felt the need to correct this: At no point in time was Idra ever considered the top foreigner in BW..ever. Not even close.
? he was the top foreigner bw player when he left. he wasnt the best foreigner ever but the time he was in CJ, yes he was the best foreigner
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On June 10 2012 23:24 Diizzy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 23:07 ahole-surprise wrote:On June 10 2012 17:16 Drascus wrote:
I get that these guys are amazing at BW, props to them for that. But this is not the same game, and the BW pros do not necessarily have to be good at SC2, just like Idra was the top Foreigner in BW but certainly is not in SC2. I just felt the need to correct this: At no point in time was Idra ever considered the top foreigner in BW..ever. Not even close. ? he was the top foreigner bw player when he left. he wasnt the best foreigner ever but the time he was in CJ, yes he was the best foreigner
it all depends if you count chinese players or not
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Russian Federation396 Posts
On June 10 2012 23:31 peidongyang wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 23:24 Diizzy wrote:On June 10 2012 23:07 ahole-surprise wrote:On June 10 2012 17:16 Drascus wrote:
I get that these guys are amazing at BW, props to them for that. But this is not the same game, and the BW pros do not necessarily have to be good at SC2, just like Idra was the top Foreigner in BW but certainly is not in SC2. I just felt the need to correct this: At no point in time was Idra ever considered the top foreigner in BW..ever. Not even close. ? he was the top foreigner bw player when he left. he wasnt the best foreigner ever but the time he was in CJ, yes he was the best foreigner it all depends if you count chinese players or not
what chinese players? as far as im concerned idrA was the best foreigner as well, he was always a favourite in every match and almost always did relatively well
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On June 10 2012 17:39 one-one-one wrote:
well. 50min 50gas makes warp-tech the best upgrade in the game. the only reason the upgrade exists is to delay warp tech as the game would be completely broken otherwise.
same thing with conc. shell upgrade pretty much, even though it wouln't completely break the game if conc. shells wasn't an upgrade, early game TvP would be quite messed up.
the good answer in both cases is that it is not the way Dustin Browder rolls. SC2 is full of gimmicks that goes against fundamental design principles in RTS-games.
lol what?
I can't even begin with how ridiculous this is.
SC2 is full of gimmicks that goes against fundamental design principles in RTS-games.
No it doesn't. It's a new RTS game. It's expanded on the fundamental principles, and has entered into this style of gaming its own take. Rather than whine about warp gate, l2p.
well. 50min 50gas makes warp-tech the best upgrade in the game. the only reason the upgrade exists is to delay warp tech as the game would be completely broken otherwise.
Yes, it does exist to delay warp tech. It is not the best upgrade in the game. That could not be more subjective (or more obvious waaaaah i hate warp gate whining). I'm sure hundreds of people would argue stim is the best upgrade (makes units that cost as much as workers late-game viable? Seems strong). What about pathogen glands? That's a pretty good upgrade. I can not get over the fact that all these "i hate sc2 for X,Y,Z it's so broken" are coming back up again? Didn't you guys get this out of your system a year and a half ago when anybody cared?
same thing with conc. shell upgrade pretty much, even though it wouln't completely break the game if conc. shells wasn't an upgrade, early game TvP would be quite messed up.
Someone clearly never played the beta. Concussive shell came standard with marauders in the beta, and it was far too powerful. Proxy marauder rushes were nearly impossible to hold if unscouted (though granted, you could build a barracks before depot back then).
This game is perfectly fine with concussive shell as it is, and warpgate.
Your post reads so much like "Fuck warpgate, TvP is hard, protoss imba!"
a. Not true
b. Not the time or place. This is the Kespa Invitational thread, not the get your whining off your chest thread
ON TOPIC:
The games last night were awesome. Flash is still a boss, but I think I was most impressed with Jaedong, just seems like he's going to take this game by storm.
EDIT;
On June 10 2012 23:24 Diizzy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 23:07 ahole-surprise wrote:On June 10 2012 17:16 Drascus wrote:
I get that these guys are amazing at BW, props to them for that. But this is not the same game, and the BW pros do not necessarily have to be good at SC2, just like Idra was the top Foreigner in BW but certainly is not in SC2. I just felt the need to correct this: At no point in time was Idra ever considered the top foreigner in BW..ever. Not even close. ? he was the top foreigner bw player when he left. he wasnt the best foreigner ever but the time he was in CJ, yes he was the best foreigner
That's also exceptionally debatable, though I don't care to argue semantics. Legionnaire, Nony, WhiteRa, F91, Testie... there were other big foreign players in BW
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On June 10 2012 23:39 JitnikoVi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 23:31 peidongyang wrote:On June 10 2012 23:24 Diizzy wrote:On June 10 2012 23:07 ahole-surprise wrote:On June 10 2012 17:16 Drascus wrote:
I get that these guys are amazing at BW, props to them for that. But this is not the same game, and the BW pros do not necessarily have to be good at SC2, just like Idra was the top Foreigner in BW but certainly is not in SC2. I just felt the need to correct this: At no point in time was Idra ever considered the top foreigner in BW..ever. Not even close. ? he was the top foreigner bw player when he left. he wasnt the best foreigner ever but the time he was in CJ, yes he was the best foreigner it all depends if you count chinese players or not what chinese players? as far as im concerned idrA was the best foreigner as well, he was always a favourite in every match and almost always did relatively well
F91
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f91 would like to have a word with you
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f91 best foreigner? lol what a joke.
idra's "reign" never felt legit to me because everyone knew that ret, nony, jf, mondi, testie, PJ, Lx, Sen, Draco were a hundred times more talented and could destroy him if and whenever they decided to start giving a fuck.
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having a hard time finding vods on the MLG site to rewatch, can someone link pls
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On June 10 2012 23:55 hifriend wrote:
f91 best foreigner? lol what a joke.
idra's "reign" never felt legit to me because everyone knew that ret, nony, jf, mondi, testie, PJ, Lx, Sen, Draco were a hundred times more talented and could destroy him if and whenever they decided to start giving a fuck.
we were listing someone who was a good chinese player is all, and one that always raped idra :>
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On June 10 2012 23:49 NexUmbra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 23:39 JitnikoVi wrote:On June 10 2012 23:31 peidongyang wrote:On June 10 2012 23:24 Diizzy wrote:On June 10 2012 23:07 ahole-surprise wrote:On June 10 2012 17:16 Drascus wrote:
I get that these guys are amazing at BW, props to them for that. But this is not the same game, and the BW pros do not necessarily have to be good at SC2, just like Idra was the top Foreigner in BW but certainly is not in SC2. I just felt the need to correct this: At no point in time was Idra ever considered the top foreigner in BW..ever. Not even close. ? he was the top foreigner bw player when he left. he wasnt the best foreigner ever but the time he was in CJ, yes he was the best foreigner it all depends if you count chinese players or not what chinese players? as far as im concerned idrA was the best foreigner as well, he was always a favourite in every match and almost always did relatively well F91
Why would you count the chinese players? nobody counted them then, don't count them now.
bw had 3 groups: Koreans, Chinese, foreigners.
edit: this is also interesting http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=98695
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On June 10 2012 17:16 Drascus wrote:
I get that these guys are amazing at BW, props to them for that. But this is not the same game, and the BW pros do not necessarily have to be good at SC2, just like Idra was the top Foreigner in BW but certainly is not in SC2.
Except the foreigner BW community was rather small, at least compared to WC3. That's why, in part, foreigner WC3 are performing better than BW ones.. but look at how things are looking inside korea... most top players are ex-BW pros.
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The majority of korean sc2 pros are guys who couldn't hack it in bw. Some of them didn't have the work ethic needed; some didn't have the talent or the multitask. Although I think multitasking is less important in SC2, I do think that it is only a matter of time before the BW pros get caught up with the SC2 pros. These guys are the most talented hard-working, and best coached players in all of esports.
But on topic:
Flash was really impressive - especially against Soulkey who everyone thought would win this tournament since he's been GM in korea for a while, and Flash just started playing sc2 1-2 months ago. He's doing what he did in broodwar by picking it up fast and rising to the top very quickly.
Jaedong said in an interview that he hasn't played enough to understand SC2 yet, so it isn't too surprising that he used a weak strategy vs Bisu in game three, but I'm overall quite impressed by his ZvT cuz it honestly looked better than Soulkey's, but then again FlaSh made Soulkey look bad, so it's not a great comparison. Either way though he is improving fast.
Bisu looked decent overall especially in PvZ, but FlaSh made him look bad in PvT ;;
I think the BW players are doing good for only having played 1-2 months, but FlaSh is doing great.
Oh and although Idra was successful in BW, he was always considered relatively untalented and uncreative. He was basically the only guy who was playing 12-14 hours a day and living in a Korean team house, so it's not exactly fair to lump him in with the other foreigners. There's a reason that a small minority thought that Idra shouldn't be allowed to participate in foreign tournaments as a result. I think Idra is doing decently in sc2, but as I said he is not very talented, so it's not like he's going to have Stephano level success. He's always going to be a mid-top foreign player though.
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Are BW guys that no nothing about SC2 gonna start posting about how SC2 is broken in here now? seriously... this could get really annoying.
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God that anaheim crowd didnt cheer too loud for flash :/
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On June 11 2012 00:20 ABear wrote:
The majority of korean sc2 pros are guys who couldn't hack it in bw. Some of them didn't have the work ethic needed; some didn't have the talent or the multitask. Although I think multitasking is less important in SC2, I do think that it is only a matter of time before the BW pros get caught up with the SC2 pros. These guys are the most talented hard-working, and best coached players in all of esports.
But on topic:
Flash was really impressive - especially against Soulkey who everyone thought would win this tournament since he's been GM in korea for a while, and Flash just started playing sc2 1-2 months ago. He's doing what he did in broodwar by picking it up fast and rising to the top very quickly.
Jaedong said in an interview that he hasn't played enough to understand SC2 yet, so it isn't too surprising that he used a weak strategy vs Bisu in game three, but I'm overall quite impressed by his ZvT cuz it honestly looked better than Soulkey's, but then again FlaSh made Soulkey look bad, so it's not a great comparison. Either way though he is improving fast.
Bisu looked decent overall especially in PvZ, but FlaSh made him look bad in PvT ;;
I think the BW players are doing good for only having played 1-2 months, but FlaSh is doing great.
Oh and although Idra was successful in BW, he was always considered relatively untalented and uncreative. He was basically the only guy who was playing 12-14 hours a day and living in a Korean team house, so it's not exactly fair to lump him in with the other foreigners. There's a reason that a small minority thought that Idra shouldn't be allowed to participate in foreign tournaments as a result. I think Idra is doing decently in sc2, but as I said he is not very talented, so it's not like he's going to have Stephano level success. He's always going to be a mid-top foreign player though.
Idra has stated that he knows he is not very creative, but as far as multitasking goes, SC2 is mechanically much smoother than BW so I think the potential for multitasking could be higher. It will be interesting when these kespa guys get decent.
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United States4796 Posts
IdrA, after he moved to the CJ house, and probably between 2008(2009?)-2010 was considered the scariest and best foreigner when it came to Brood War. Sure, F91, Sen, and NonY at times defeated him. But overall every tournament at the time was his to win. Well, foreign tournaments anyway. That Koreans weren't allowed in.
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EPT
