On July 21 2012 02:40 fraktoasters wrote: 4) The online community is embarrassing. Deal with it.
How can you even say such a thing? There are some idiots around, sure, but name a place on earth where there aren't.
The online community creates amazing strategy and learning guides to share with others, the online community creates tons of streamed video entertainment for free, the online community donated over 40000 dollars for "liquid rising" within days, the online community does live reporting for those who can't watch, again, for free, they help each other out with strategy advice and information all the time, they organize events, they create cool graphics and artwork for events and casters or just for fun, they develop software tools, they create and host replay, vod and stats sites and even produce freaking music videos, they support their heros with great dedication, which makes them heros in the first place. Look at the communication platform and information resource that TL.net is. Listen to day9 when he describes how awesome his viewers who write to him and hang out in his stream chat are.
How can you even say such a thing?
Beautiful! How can you not feel a comradery with this community, after all you are part of it.
The real world and happiness take precedence over an online community. This video was first and foremost an interview with Tasteless about his life and his opinion on things, his opinion is that he does not need to find comaderie within the community and he has found he dislikes reading the forums. Graphics and music videos do nothing to help him, his life, or his goals, so he doesn't look at them, and the parts that are pertinent to him are mostly irrelevant for him because he doesn't need the input of strangers on the internet. The internet is anonymous and half the people who give him feedback could be 15 year old mad nerds, so why would he take it seriously?
Call it egotistical or selfish or whatever but that some people are too absorbed in the internet and cultures like teamliquid or reddit, it seems like he just has a well-adjusted view on reality and lives outside of the computer besides when he plays video games. In the end this community could be boiled down to a generally helpful facebook group. Some people can find a lot in community interaction but he's a mid 20's adult with what appears to be a decent social life. The real world beats the internet any day of the week, I'd personally rather be at a Barcraft to watch SC2, or kick back and watch it on tv with some friends, but I don't have the same opportunities to do so as Tasteless so teamliquid is the next step.
i dont get how people map hack(aka cheat), or get put in jail or whatevers new this week and yet we, the wider community, get called the embarrassing ones? how the sc community treats its celebs is no different to how fans of any sport treat the famous people, theres tides of public opinion, there oustings of individuals, fairly or unfairly, and theres people who with an emotional point of view maybe dont consider the facts before they speak out. this happens eeeeeeeveeeerywhere how have the celebrities managed to convince us that we are the toxic ones in this community? when they are the ones smoking and swearing on a show that will be seen by kids. fucking magic trick i tell you
now before i get another twenty replies saying omg who cares about smoking, id like to just let people know they are missing the point. the fact is, the most popular people in our community are just as bad if not worse than anyone posting either here or on reddit in terms of 'being embarrassing' so when we get yet another interview where the people that we built up shit back down on us because we dont behave exactly how they want, i want them to get called out on that shit because it pisses me off to no end.
every single pro that 'makes it big' in this community is so two faced, they go from loving reddit or whatever for building them up to shitting all over the average poster or viewer for not loving every little detail, fuck those guys.
The difference between every streamer, pro player, caster and anything else I'm missing is that they are productive in everything they do. The posts on the forums that do nothing but discuss in a negative manner are accomplishing nothing. Most these people posting like this are young and don't have real world experience and just make the community look immature and unprofessional. This entire website was founded off the professional people and continues to grow from their hard work. In real sports there are stupid people who argue just like this who accomplish nothing for the scene; if that's all sports was it wouldn't be any bigger than SC2 is right now. The fact that a large portion of the vocal SC2 community are people doing what you do is pretty embarrassing.
Just to not be a hypocrite; my purpose for this was to educate you to stop posting like this in the future.
Finally managed to finish listening/watching all the interviews. Great job doing these interviews JP. I found that they had nice atmosphere to them and it was really pleasant listening to the bigger personalities reveal a bit different side of them or to just hear from their backgrounds and history.
I have to admit these interviews gave me a lot of new perspective on things e-sports related and some more insight on the more behind the scenes action. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to all of them, but i think the biggest impact/most interesting of them was the interview you made with 2GD. It was nice to hear a bit about the business side of esports from him and some more "insider" information. To be completely honest, i had kind of mixed feelings about 2gd before. He seemed like a really well presented person(when he wanted to be) with good striking points, but sometimes went a bit too much overboard(and i think that is part of his charm also). After listening to the interview i have to admit i respect him a lot more since he does what he loves and helps other people/organisations and tries to make esports better. I also completely agree with him on the part where he talks about paying casters/people inside organisations with reasonable wages(not too little, but not overpricing them either). The ideas he had about a new directly esports designed shooter game was really interesting! I hope that idea comes to fruitition sometime in the future and it is a success.
Anyways, i'm looking forward to more interviews and i wish good luck with making them happen JP =)
On July 21 2012 02:40 fraktoasters wrote: 4) The online community is embarrassing. Deal with it.
How can you even say such a thing? There are some idiots around, sure, but name a place on earth where there aren't.
The online community creates amazing strategy and learning guides to share with others, the online community creates tons of streamed video entertainment for free, the online community donated over 40000 dollars for "liquid rising" within days, the online community does live reporting for those who can't watch, again, for free, they help each other out with strategy advice and information all the time, they organize events, they create cool graphics and artwork for events and casters or just for fun, they develop software tools, they create and host replay, vod and stats sites and even produce freaking music videos, they support their heros with great dedication, which makes them heros in the first place. Look at the communication platform and information resource that TL.net is. Listen to day9 when he describes how awesome his viewers who write to him and hang out in his stream chat are.
How can you even say such a thing?
Beautiful! How can you not feel a comradery with this community, after all you are part of it.
The real world and happiness take precedence over an online community. This video was first and foremost an interview with Tasteless about his life and his opinion on things, his opinion is that he does not need to find comaderie within the community and he has found he dislikes reading the forums. Graphics and music videos do nothing to help him, his life, or his goals, so he doesn't look at them, and the parts that are pertinent to him are mostly irrelevant for him because he doesn't need the input of strangers on the internet. The internet is anonymous and half the people who give him feedback could be 15 year old mad nerds, so why would he take it seriously?
Call it egotistical or selfish or whatever but that some people are too absorbed in the internet and cultures like teamliquid or reddit, it seems like he just has a well-adjusted view on reality and lives outside of the computer besides when he plays video games. In the end this community could be boiled down to a generally helpful facebook group. Some people can find a lot in community interaction but he's a mid 20's adult with what appears to be a decent social life. The real world beats the internet any day of the week, I'd personally rather be at a Barcraft to watch SC2, or kick back and watch it on tv with some friends, but I don't have the same opportunities to do so as Tasteless so teamliquid is the next step.
I found Tasteless commentary on the community to be refreshingly honest and professional. If you dive into the majority of threads on TL, they are pretty embarassing. If you don't believe me, just read a single page of any thread out loud and ask yourself if you would want to do that infront of other people. I do not think the community is bad and I try to get anyone I know to watch SC2 with me. However, I don't try to get anyone involved with TL or the forums. But this hold true for any online community. The internet superfan for anything are the most vocal and caustic members of any larger community.
You will find similar points of view from most professional players as well. Incontrol and Idra have both said that the community is great when you meet them in person, but the forums seem to highlight the worst of the worst. I am sure if you meet Tasteless in person, he would be more than happy to with you(assuming you weren't creepy). It is no shocker that the happest casters and players are the ones who ignore the community 98% of the time.
Really liked this episode the best so far. Tasteless turned out to be a sort of deep guy who says fuck too much. It was interesting to hear about his education (if only briefly). You can tell he has some higher education from the stuff he said here. Should have gotten his degree tho, but I understand why he didn't.
I'm currently watching the Tasteless episode (god that guy is awesome) and I really love the idea. I've seen the episodes with TB, 2GD and djwheat, I've ignored the other ones because I'm not really interested in players as I am community figures/personalities, but thats not important. Keep probing as deep as you can, its really interesting.
I do have some constructive criticism I noticed just now, don't ever assume all of us listening knows the rumors/backstories of everything, I'm thinking about the masturbation story because I might have been living under a rock (a comfortable one if so) but I had no idea. Just wanted to make you aware, it might only be a single example but I really think this has a lot more potential than SotG-type shows (even though I love that too, don't ever stop that!).
I also saw somebody in the comments say "Real talk with Gootecks!" and I want to echo that. Doesn't have to be him specifically but FGC personalities. I think having someone like Gootecks, Ultradavid or even Spooky would be really interesting and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
These are reaaaally nice. Please keep up the good work and please keep them looong! I'd definitely prefer if you keep them 2 - 3 hours long instead of aiming for 1 hour.
On July 20 2012 23:48 turdburgler wrote: i really enjoy real talk for what it is, an extended series of talk with people who dont often speak, enjoyable for that. but just like mlgs other extended series i find it irritating and missing the point. i wish the questions were more hard hitting and that JP would make the speaker back up what they were saying and articulate their argument better, because i get frustrated when an otherwise likable person says something stupid and gets away with it.
(if the video doesnt load properly jump to 58:30)
this was brought up on reddit and it really grinds my gears when i hear stuff like this. but even if JP agrees with him, the least he could do (as ive seen djwheat do, which i appreciate) is play devils advocate so that they can actually argue their point rather than just state it and act smug because no one disagrees with them.
ill just copy what i wrote on reddit.
i dont get how people map hack(aka cheat), or get put in jail or whatevers new this week and yet we, the wider community, get called the embarrassing ones? how the sc community treats its celebs is no different to how fans of any sport treat the famous people, theres tides of public opinion, there oustings of individuals, fairly or unfairly, and theres people who with an emotional point of view maybe dont consider the facts before they speak out. this happens eeeeeeeveeeerywhere how have the celebrities managed to convince us that we are the toxic ones in this community? when they are the ones smoking and swearing on a show that will be seen by kids. fucking magic trick i tell you
now before i get another twenty replies saying omg who cares about smoking, id like to just let people know they are missing the point. the fact is, the most popular people in our community are just as bad if not worse than anyone posting either here or on reddit in terms of 'being embarrassing' so when we get yet another interview where the people that we built up shit back down on us because we dont behave exactly how they want, i want them to get called out on that shit because it pisses me off to no end.
every single pro that 'makes it big' in this community is so two faced, they go from loving reddit or whatever for building them up to shitting all over the average poster or viewer for not loving every little detail, fuck those guys.
You sir deserve to be smacked repeatedly and publicly stoned until either death or better judgment occurs..
I like your point though "It's not about smoking though I made a big deal of it, it's about the fact they're bad people like the rest of us!" -.- it reallllllly was well rounded and educated.
You sir are a "puffs a smoke while preparing to swear" fucking idiot. Number of fucks I gave? 1 <--- noob level
Number of fucks Tasteless gave? 121 <--- John Travolta level
On July 20 2012 23:48 turdburgler wrote: i really enjoy real talk for what it is, an extended series of talk with people who dont often speak, enjoyable for that. but just like mlgs other extended series i find it irritating and missing the point. i wish the questions were more hard hitting and that JP would make the speaker back up what they were saying and articulate their argument better, because i get frustrated when an otherwise likable person says something stupid and gets away with it.
this was brought up on reddit and it really grinds my gears when i hear stuff like this. but even if JP agrees with him, the least he could do (as ive seen djwheat do, which i appreciate) is play devils advocate so that they can actually argue their point rather than just state it and act smug because no one disagrees with them.
ill just copy what i wrote on reddit.
i dont get how people map hack(aka cheat), or get put in jail or whatevers new this week and yet we, the wider community, get called the embarrassing ones? how the sc community treats its celebs is no different to how fans of any sport treat the famous people, theres tides of public opinion, there oustings of individuals, fairly or unfairly, and theres people who with an emotional point of view maybe dont consider the facts before they speak out. this happens eeeeeeeveeeerywhere how have the celebrities managed to convince us that we are the toxic ones in this community? when they are the ones smoking and swearing on a show that will be seen by kids. fucking magic trick i tell you
now before i get another twenty replies saying omg who cares about smoking, id like to just let people know they are missing the point. the fact is, the most popular people in our community are just as bad if not worse than anyone posting either here or on reddit in terms of 'being embarrassing' so when we get yet another interview where the people that we built up shit back down on us because we dont behave exactly how they want, i want them to get called out on that shit because it pisses me off to no end.
every single pro that 'makes it big' in this community is so two faced, they go from loving reddit or whatever for building them up to shitting all over the average poster or viewer for not loving every little detail, fuck those guys.
I think you are overreacting. You take one part of the interview. But in the entire interview he had gave many other reasons, but to some up:
- He does not need the forums for feedback, he has other methods - He enjoys fan interaction on events, in real life, people are much nicer in RL. - He does not have the time available to go through forums - SC2 is only part of his life, and not his whole life - He does not enjoy going through forums (forums not mature enough), and he does not look for a community feel online, but in real life. This was also clear from him not enjoying MMOs, it was pretty easy to see that he is not one of those people who lives his live in the virtual world.
Why would JP start an argument with him, when it is a personal opinion? Should he say, no Tasteless, it is wrong that you think that! You should like the forums!
(by the way you kind of proof his point, with this witchhunt like post of yours )
i dont think witch hunt means what you think it means
because i disagree with tasteless on one topic, because i dislike the direction real talk is going (even though i like the show and tasteless overall) im somehow on a witch hunter to what? oust him from his job at gom? i dont know what you are accusing me of here
and you say im overreacting
Just relisten the interview, reread my post, reread your own. Then think if you have reached a valid conclusion. He is not hating on the community, he loves the community when he meets people on events. What he does not enjoy is reading through online forums. Apparantly you see this as an act of betrayal...
noooo i dont care that he doesnt visit TL or reddit thats his choice, i dont care. what i hate is how he, and others get to sit there in 'public' and take a massive dump on us calling us embarrassing. sure he may like the 1% of SC fans who have the money to go out to korea to see the GSL live, thats nice for them and him. but 99% of people will only ever 'interact' with the community through reddit, and him calling people who post there embarrassing is a dick move.
so if hes gonna sit there and defend idra in 1 moment saying, oh its ok, because offline hes a nice guy. but then call the online mob persona of the fans embarrassing i want JP to call him on his bullshit and say that he needs to defend his opinion better.
1) He goes to a lot of foreign events so he doesn't just meet the fans in Korea 2) Everyone says this about live fans (that they're unbelievably nice) and this about online fans (that it's embarrassing and pros don't want to be a part of it) 3) 99% of people don't interact with the community through TL/reddit. People who post on these websites are the vocal minority. 4) The online community is embarrassing. Deal with it.
I believe turdburgler is trying to point out that Real Talk is indistinguishable from a circlejerk, where guests come on the show and get thrown softballs on a two hour commercial to increase their brand and image in exchange for a few stories and two mildly interesting questions.
JP needs to challenge his viewers opinions, even if he agrees with them, it's how you create interesting interviews. He doesn't need to create a red menace, he just needs to challenge his guests otherwise it comes off as an audiobook of liquidpedia. A journalists JP is not, but he can easily improve if he desires.
Actually, I don't want to ruin your parade here, but JP doesn't need to do that. The original purpose of the show is to create something like The Actor's Studio. It's not about controversy or getting the hard opinions out of people. It's a friendly atmosphere where people can talk about how they got to the point where they are. Originally, the purpose was to give students a guidance on how famous actors developed and help them achieve the same. It's not Larry King. And there are enough other shows that would call them on their bullshit, but The Real Talk isn't and as far as I can tell was never supposed to be the place to do that.
Having said that, some posts here just prove Tasteless' point.
I think that the number of people, as a percentage of the community, who seek to be a positive force in the community is about the same as the old days. The sheer volume of internet traffic is what causes the "embarrassing community" image. Somehow going to a thread with ten posts where half of them are bad seems a lot more reasonable than a 100 page thread where half of the posts are bad. To add to this problem there is a startling amount of "bandwagoning" so it is not at all uncommon to see several pages of similarly mindless posts in a row. I can see how this would be frustrating regardless of the validity of the original point.
This all said, the Tasteless interview had more "real talk" than all the other episodes I have seen combined. Some of the opinions and insights he expressed seemed like the type of things you would only tell close friends or family. I appreciate his candor.
EPT
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