EPTThat being said I dont think that APM is whats holding me back from being promoted. Its not about the APM.
[Q/D] Low APM Master Zerg Stream? - Page 2
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EnterTheWu
United States5 Posts
That being said I dont think that APM is whats holding me back from being promoted. Its not about the APM. | ||
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RedDragon571
United States633 Posts
On May 08 2012 23:23 Genome852 wrote: By APM do you mean "APM" or EPM? (EPM as in shift+C in replays, usually 200+ for pro players) Blizzard messed up, EPM is APM in the replay tab. You can tell because EPM should be APM minus some types of actions, yet EPM is higher than APM. So blizzard got it backwards. I was saying I worked my up from 130 apm (real minutes) to 340 apm and 170 epm, real minutes according to scgears. If a retard like me can do it, anyone can. | ||
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RedDragon571
United States633 Posts
On May 08 2012 23:32 EnterTheWu wrote: I'm mid to high Diamond and my APM is probably around 60-80. I play with one hand for the most part, due to a birth injury. I use ae prop in my right hand to press the shift key so that I can queu commands. Other than that I play only with my left; to operate the keys and the mouse. That being said I dont think that APM is whats holding me back from being promoted. Its not about the APM. APM doesn't hold you back from being promoted, however it does hold you back from certain play styles. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On May 08 2012 23:33 RedDragon571 wrote: Blizzard messed up, EPM is APM in the replay tab. You can tell because EPM should be APM minus some types of actions, yet EPM is higher than APM. So blizzard got it backwards. I was saying I worked my up from 130 apm (real minutes) to 340 apm and 170 epm, real minutes according to scgears. If a retard like me can do it, anyone can. Does your high apm actually have a point? Are you doing useful stuff with it? Are you forgetting other important things because of it? | ||
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RedDragon571
United States633 Posts
On May 08 2012 23:36 TheRabidDeer wrote: Does your high apm actually have a point? Are you doing useful stuff with it? Are you forgetting other important things because of it? Lol, what would be the point of training my mechanics if I am forgetting important thing, when you play fast, you almost can't forget things because your seeing your base, army and more of the map more times per minute. Yes, EAPM, according to sc2 gears is effective actions per minute. A lot of the APM difference according to sc2 gears is about Micro and army movement. High apm players can create and capitalize on more situations because they can be out on the map moving around. Also with high apm you can harass your opponent and macro behind it, which if the opponents mechanics are weak they will fall apart in build order and macro while trying to manage harass at multiple locations. I play zerg, so there is more to do in general than other races, injects, creep spread, getting set up for surrounds, counterattacks while being attacks, trying to defend drops with melee units ect. You don't need to high apm to be a successful player, esp if you play toss, however it limits the type of play styles you are able to play correctly. From my exp with sc2gears, about 90 apm or 65 blizz (blizz EPM is APM per blizzard minute, yes its backward TT) is required for good macro, The difference comes in what players can get done with micro. TL:DR If you have 100 apm or lower, to get to high masters or be a successful pro player, you better have super solid refined builds and great decision making, because they will be making up for your lack of multitasking pressure and forcing less decisions for your opponent to make. | ||
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chlindell
Sweden68 Posts
Domus: I more or less have the default keyboard setup but I moved base cam to space for injects and control group 0 to the button above tab to squeeze in 4 ctrl groups for army and then hatches on 4, queens on 5. I am adding camera hotkeys to my bases initially but I don't think I actually use them very often while playing. I do feel that I don't have time to micro and macro properly at the same time, a lot of the time I know what I should be doing (scout, harass etc) but just don't have time to do it as well as I'd like without affecting my macro. I use hotkeys for most of the stuff except some upgrades. Super Z: 110 league and 530 custom game wins. The customs are a mix of 1v1s, nexus wars, monobattles, star jeweled etc but I'd guess 300+ are 1v1s. I know it should improve over time but I don't really see any major improvements over the last months in SC2Gears so we'll see. I think I would benefit from some long gaming sessions but unfortunately I rarely get to play more than a handful o games at a time. Been playing since late season 1. Genome852: I mean the average in the regular APM tab. I opened a "55 APM at the end" replay in sc2 gears and there is shows up as 75. Too many ways of calculating APM I think  On the positive side I only seem to have about 15% redundancy. | ||
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chlindell
Sweden68 Posts
This was one of the main reasons I had for creating this thread. I figured that by copying a lower APM player I'd avoid trying to copy play styles that rely too much on speed for me to be effective with them. Luckily zerg doesn't have to do marine splits but there are always a ton of other things to do so I always feel like I'm too slow to do all the things I need to be doing. I don't have any grand plans for this game I just play it as a hobby. That said, I obviously want to get better at it or I wouldn't be posting help threads on TL! My initial goal was getting to plat which I did, now I mainly play customs because it's less stressful even if I might face much better players and get roflstomped sometimes. Even got to play a GM once which ended in just that, fun to try though! | ||
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Legion710
Canada423 Posts
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Orzabal
France287 Posts
On May 08 2012 23:23 Genome852 wrote: By APM do you mean "APM" or EPM? (EPM as in shift+C in replays, usually 200+ for pro players) I think he is talking about SC2Gear APM. | ||
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SwordfishConspiracy
United States146 Posts
Bobstaman (http://www.twitch.tv/bobstaman) is one of my favorite streamers specifically for this reason. He plays plenty fast enough to do well in high masters but he doesn't APM spam and move the camera around so fast that you can't see what he's doing. It's very easy to follow his decision making process because you can actually see what's happening. He also provides commentary and is always happy to answer questions about the game and his play. | ||
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Djagulingu
Germany3605 Posts
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chlindell
Sweden68 Posts
On May 09 2012 01:12 Legion710 wrote: Streams aren't going to improve your APM. Go play more. Agreed, that should be the main focus. However, I wasn't sure if I should consider my own speed when picking streams. I wanted to watch some anyway and I have gotten some nice feedback in this thread. On May 09 2012 01:30 SwordfishConspiracy wrote: Rather than lecturing you on why you're wrong and you should feel bad, I'm going to answer your question. Bobstaman (http://www.twitch.tv/bobstaman) is one of my favorite streamers specifically for this reason. He plays plenty fast enough to do well in high masters but he doesn't APM spam and move the camera around so fast that you can't see what he's doing. It's very easy to follow his decision making process because you can actually see what's happening. He also provides commentary and is always happy to answer questions about the game and his play. Don't worry about it, I'm a grownup and can handle it just fine! Wouldn't say the same for my kids though haha. If you think my reasoning is wrong feel free to shoot it down "Belial-style"  Thanks for the link I will check it out! | ||
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ChriseC
Germany440 Posts
otherwise i would just look in the TL streamin list (that is huge) and check out some High master/low GM zerg that isnt that popular, some of them dont have unbelievable high apm aswell but u can learn alot from them, also because they often answer questions cuz they dont have that many viewers. | ||
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bigbadgreen
United States142 Posts
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pigmanbear
Angola2010 Posts
* FitzyHere * SortOf * TLO * Golden * Stephano * Yugioh At the other end of the spectrum are the guys who differentiate themselves with quick reactions and good multi-tasking: * Vibe * Daisuki * CrazyMoving * Snute * Phoenix * JEcho Don't think that the former won't lose to cheese, or that the latter won't give up their army for nothing. Personally SortOf is my favorite stream for watching good decision-making. Poor guy only ever has 5-10 viewers, which is a shame as he's been top GM on EU and NA for a good while now, is very mannered, and talks to viewers in chat. | ||
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chlindell
Sweden68 Posts
 I won't have time to check out all of them since I don't watch that much but I've seen Stephano, JEcho and Snute a little bit before. I've only seen Snute once and I kinda liked what I saw but I rarely watch live and unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any archive. I found myself in almost the exact same situation as I saw him in on stream and just tried to do what I remembered him doing. Ended up with the toss player rage-quitting after saying that Z was ridiculous. I remember SortOf from his nice run at dreamhack, I'll support my fellow swede a bit and tune in. It might sound like I'm watching a lot of streams instead of playing and wondering why my APM is low. That's not really the case though, I spend a lot more time in game than watching streams. Can't say the same for TL and reddit though but I blame whoever invented the smartphone! | ||
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
When I play Protoss my APM is much higher then Zerg just because I don't have to think about what I'm doing, everything just goes automatically. With Zerg I have that to a lesser extent so I spend more time thinking = less time doing something = lower APM. | ||
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Hummingb1rd
United States97 Posts
I'm one of the top random players on NA, playing at a M/GM level. I'd consider myself to be among the slower category (everyone I play on ladder has higher APM than me). Check me out if you want >< | ||
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DemonDeacon
United States158 Posts
On May 09 2012 04:55 Jakkerr wrote: APM comes from being familiar with a race. When I play Protoss my APM is much higher then Zerg just because I don't have to think about what I'm doing, everything just goes automatically. With Zerg I have that to a lesser extent so I spend more time thinking = less time doing something = lower APM. yeah it takes a lot of time to learn all the match-ups and opposing build orders and the best way to counter them but once you get that understanding you spend a lot less time thinking and more time just doing what needs to be done automatically and then it opens up more time for you to do other things like maneuver your army, macro probes/units/upgrades, scout, etc. also helps a lot to know all the hotkeys for your race and to use all your available hotkeys - 1 thru 0 and f1-f4 i went from using about 2 hotkeys to using all of them and my apm almost doubled just from doing that | ||
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Inside.Out
Canada569 Posts
my streams at twitch.tv/ekstazija | ||
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