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Hi TL!
I'm looking for streams/VODs of master league zerg players that have significantly lower APM than their peers. Not necessarily super low, just not the "holy s**t he's fast, I could never play like that"-feel that you get from watching pro streams. As a ballpark figure this would preferably mean double digit APM but the exact figure isn't important.
Basically I'm looking for someone who plays at a high level, at least compared to me/platinum, without relying too much on hand speed. According to SC2Gears it's pretty rare that I play someone with lower APM than myself and I doubt I'll get significantly faster anytime soon for various reasons. I think it will be easier to copy the play style and decision making of someone who's usually slower than the opponent and I'm interested in picking up tricks for doing things like flanking/scouting/multitasking/etc "well enough" without requiring too much raw speed. It's OK if it wouldn't work in the GSL because I won't be playing there anyway.
Any stream suggestions? If they provide commentary or share replays that's a HUGE plus! I'm sure there are other people who might be interested in this type of stream but I didn't find anything when searching. I saw CatZ intentionally play a game with low APM when coaching once which I really liked so that type of thing would also be interesting.
Bonus discussion: Do you think this is a good approach for improving or is the high level low APM player a myth/"illusion" that mostly comes from other players spamming? Is there really a big spread in effective APM between similar MMR-rated players in dia/master or is it mostly present in the lower leagues? Would it be better to stick to regular pro streams and try play like them even if I can't do it as fast?
Mods: Wasn't sure which forum to put this in so feel free to move it if you want.
TL,DR:
Do you know any master league zerg that has well below average APM and streams with commentary?
Thanks!
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In my experience APM comes with habbits and confidence, play more im sure you will improve. Don't know any streams like that tho.
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I have about 80 apm max (usually more around 65-70) and have always been at the top of my master divisions (with both protoss and zerg). I don't stream though, but maybe this can give you a boost to your confidence as I think you're also looking for 'proof' that you can get higher than platinum with below average APM.
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A greater percentage of the pro's have an APM that isn't skyrocketing. I remember SjoW (some time ago) had an average APM around 80-90. So if you train alot you should be able to press yourself to around 60'ish or even higher. Once you hit that speed you'll be able to understand everything from a stream. Then combine practice with whatever knowledge or ideas you get through streams.
Can't mention a stream though - sorry.
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I currently play in top Diamond and play with low-mid masters, My APM is useally around 60-80.
I think APM isn't as important, the most important part is knowing what to do when, having 150 apm isn't gonna help you if you made too many drones or didn't scout properly.
I'm talking about the APM not the EPM, since thats useally around 120-130ish i think.
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i dont think looking at slower players isnt gonna improve other players who watch those streams. You are typically looking at their decision making, not at their gosu high speed macro. Decision making is what separates good players from bad.
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Heyho  You might wanna check out Jecho:http://www.twitch.tv/jechotv He's top8 Grandmaster. He always provides commentary on his stream and like the guys above said it's not about super high APM but rather about understanding and decision making. I learned a lot watching him.
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I don't agree with the premise that you should try to mimic players that are particularly low apm as if their decision making is that much better to compensate. I think watching players that play intelligently and have good builds are the ones to watch regardless of how fast they are. You get used to the speed, and you'll become accustomed to processing the game's activity at a fast pace. You'll also probably realize that some things that on the surface seem to require a lot of multitasking, are actually not that hard to execute.
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Yea you do, everybody that posts their stream is blatantly advertising it 
But, thats what the OP is asking for so its ok.
I would post my stream, but I rarely stream so its not a big deal. Last season I was at 800-850 points in masters. I dont spam at all and if its a macro game I usually have like 40 apm after the first 5 minutes (though itll rise to like 100 throughout the rest of the game as the things I need to do increases).
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OP, If I have to say one thing to you it would be to not worry about your speed. Your speed is not what is holding you back, It is your gamesense. If you work at your knowledge of the game such as: timings, builds, scouting, strategies etc etc. then you will win a lot more and get into master league. Almost always knowledge will be better then having high APM unless you are at the top caliber of players
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I float between 5th-10th in my masters division with ~55-60 apm. I don't stream but can send you replays & suggestions/explanations if you'd like.
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The most important thing is to know what you actually want to do. Obviously you know you're going to make overlords and drones, ok good. Do you know what tech you're going to go before the game starts? Eg. If you see collosus, get some corrupter. I'ts not a decision it's a trigger. The point is if you have to decide DURING the game what you're going to do then your APM will be slower.
Also practice good habits. It's harder at first but force yourself to hotkey, and only send units for defense/offense using hot keys. Don't drag and a move, drag, hotkey, and then select hotkey, and then give command. Really you should be hotkeying units as soon as they pop or when they're still larvae.
I'd be happy to send you some replays but I don't stream. I am only diamond but you really don't need much APM. I would say on average at platinum->diamond level, zerg requires about the same APM as terran, and less than protoss.
Again the most important thing is knowing what you're going to do before you do it. Make it habit, and then you can actually have EFFECTIVE apm, honestly it doesn't matter how many times you tell that unit to attack or to scout, it's going to attack or scout at the same speed.
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Thanks for the input everyone! My average in game APM is usually 50-ish at the end of a replay and I did manage to beat all the starcraft master levels so I guess I'm not super slow. Yes I definitely know that it's not the main reason for me being in plat, I have a ton of room for improvement in other areas as well. I was looking for help on how to approach this since I don't have that much time available and need to prioritize a bit.
What I was thinking was something along the lines of if I was a low APM terran I might get more out of watching some famously slow player like SjoW/GoOdy rather than MKP since their styles are less likely to require high APM to be effective. The idea was that a slow player would be forced to prioritize the most important stuff and skip some things that a faster player would still pull off. That might give me a few less things to worry about and help deciding the game plan so to speak. Judging by the replies here I probably shouldn't care too much about APM though.
Rossbacher, I actually watched one of JEchos games yesterday and he does seem to commentate a lot which is great.
Saetia I'll check out your stream as well and I don't think it should count as advertising since you pretty much answered a direct question
pwncakery that sounds like a familiar speed, I'll send you a PM!
thurst0n: These types of suggestions are also very helpful. I'm actually very good at hotkeying my eggs and it helps so much. I'm not really using map hotkeys though which I probably should. (I have mouse acc on so have gotten a bit lazy with the scrolling since I just have to twitch a bit). My main goal from watching streams/replays is to steal strategies and establish the types of triggers you mention to get a good game plan that I have a decent chance of pulling off. If I can pick up some tricks along he way then it's a nice bonus.
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ugh, this mindset is disgusting.
"holy s**t he's fast, I could never play like that"
"I will never try and improve mechanics cause i don't believe I can."
work hard, practice alot and isolate your mechanical problems intelligently. Push yourself to the next level.
By not working on mechanics you are limiting yourself to a small number of play styles and strategies. You will never be able to macro and muta harass very well if you don't work at it. Yeah you don't need good mechanics but you'll never be one of the best without it.
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On May 08 2012 08:58 RedDragon571 wrote:
ugh, this mindset is disgusting.
"holy s**t he's fast, I could never play like that"
"I will never try and improve mechanics cause i don't believe I can."
work hard, practice alot and isolate your mechanical problems intelligently. Push yourself to the next level.
By not working on mechanics you are limiting yourself to a small number of play styles and strategies. You will never be able to macro and muta harass very well if you don't work at it. Yeah you don't need good mechanics but you'll never be one of the best without it.
Well, I prefer to call the mindset realistic rather than disgusting but point taken!
Of course I will try to improve my mechanics but in order to become one of the best like you say I'd have to spend a substantial amount of time to get there. I would love to play a lot more than I do but I simply can't. To be honest this is the first game I haven't gotten bored with in years, probably since civ 4 which would put it at around 2005..damn, time flies.
Ironically I do go muta in ZvT and sometimes vs P as well 
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On May 08 2012 17:56 chlindell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 08:58 RedDragon571 wrote:
ugh, this mindset is disgusting.
"holy s**t he's fast, I could never play like that"
"I will never try and improve mechanics cause i don't believe I can."
work hard, practice alot and isolate your mechanical problems intelligently. Push yourself to the next level.
By not working on mechanics you are limiting yourself to a small number of play styles and strategies. You will never be able to macro and muta harass very well if you don't work at it. Yeah you don't need good mechanics but you'll never be one of the best without it. Well, I prefer to call the mindset realistic rather than disgusting but point taken! Of course I will try to improve my mechanics but in order to become one of the best like you say I'd have to spend a substantial amount of time to get there. I would love to play a lot more than I do but I simply can't. To be honest this is the first game I haven't gotten bored with in years, probably since civ 4 which would put it at around 2005..damn, time flies. Ironically I do go muta in ZvT and sometimes vs P as well
I got from 130 apm to 250 apm within a month, and now im at 300-340 according to sc2 gears. (actions per real minute) Honestly, not many people realize how easily attainable this goal is. This doesn't mean you have to practice ALOT it means you need to practice EFFECTIVELY when you have time.
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I think it is not possible to effectively control your macro and micro with 50 APM, it will always work against you. With 50 APM I also think you are probably not using the most effective keyboard layout, probably not mapping your camera to locations or effectively using the camera.
So yeah, don't try to skip the mechanics phase. Put some time in memorizing camera locations for each base and hotkeys for all your buildings and units. Effectively teach yourself to never clicking on that right bottom control panel , all that should be done with keyboard. Most camera movement, do it with your keyboard. Your APM should be a 100+ in no time if you start doing this.
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how many ladder wins/ games have you played .... if it is under 500 or even 1000 you just havent played enough and your APM will improve
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By APM do you mean "APM" or EPM? (EPM as in shift+C in replays, usually 200+ for pro players)
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EPT
