[Rant]/[D] Witch Hunting and 'eSports' - Page 23

On May 08 2012 06:15 Akash1223 wrote:


I watched the video; it's talking about laws against offensive language. Nobody here is saying Naniwa, Orb, or Destiny should be put in jail.

What you are failing to understand is SC2 is within the entertainment industry. People watch because they want to be entertained. If people get offended, they are much less likely to be entertained, and therefore much less likely to watch. That's why you don't offend people. People should be fired if they are causing less people to watch. That's why every other part of the entertainment industry has requirements for people not to use offensive language. Esports is new, and not on the level of the rest of the industry yet, but as it grows it will have to conform to said requirements. The more people you offend, the less viewers you will have, and the harder it will be for Esports to grow.

On May 08 2012 06:20 oBlade wrote:

You didn't really read. I said these players didn't cause any harm besides that of losing their own sponsors due to the self-righteous backlash from people.

The way consequences work in the real world isn't that when you cross the street without looking, your peers tattle to your mom and she spanks you. It's that you get killed by a bus. Or you cause a pileup when a bus swerves to avoid splattering you. What Destiny and orb did in this case was walk across the street without looking and find themselves safely on the other side. They said nigger and nothing happened. Nothing happened to anyone. Then the internet found out about it, emailed people with a red face rather than a cool head, and they had to leave their organizations.

Seriously this argument is basically "There are consequences because I think there should be," then you email sponsors, thereby getting people to resign, and say "I told you there were consequences."

On May 08 2012 06:26 alpinefpOPP wrote:
What's sad about all these situations is that most of the people leading the mobs with their pitchforks dont even care about what was said. I agree when someone says racism and biggotry shouldnt be tolerated anyhwere, thats true, but the matter of the fact is that a huge number of people are just out to get anyone who slips up just because they can. What's even worse is the fact that it will never stop, this will continue until the community dies.

On May 08 2012 06:26 Falcor wrote:


there are specific sections of the entertainment industry that allows offensive language to be used. Movies, books ,tv(depending on the channel), and all comedy. But all of those forms(except books) have a rating system...kinda likehow streams can put a rating on their stream.

If you want to talk about the sports industry then thats a different story

On May 08 2012 06:32 Dundron2000 wrote:


yes.. being against racist language truly the blight of our beloved community.

please note obvious sarcasm.

On May 08 2012 06:32 Dundron2000 wrote:


yes.. being against racist language truly the blight of our beloved community.

please note obvious sarcasm.

On May 08 2012 05:28 Fubi wrote:

Thing is, Destiny clearly was NOT that type of guy to even begin with, and even after people complained, he publicly stated that he doesn't give a shit. So that brings us back to our point. The root of the problem isn't the pitch-forking, it's these players themselves.

On May 08 2012 06:34 windsupernova wrote:


You are destroying the community by being against my freedom to shit up the community.How can´t you understand that?

On May 08 2012 06:34 windsupernova wrote:


You are destroying the community by being against my freedom to shit up the community.How can´t you understand that?

On May 08 2012 06:35 Jisall wrote:


Just because you think something shit's up the community doesn't mean it actually does.

On May 08 2012 06:40 LanTAs wrote:
Maybe there should be some a judicial branch of the SC2 community where we can hold these guys up for "trial". There could be like 9 judges (maybe each representing a site or some kind of community from somewhere) and like that could be something like a supreme court.

On May 08 2012 05:28 Fubi wrote:

Thing is, Destiny clearly was NOT that type of guy to even begin with, and even after people complained, he publicly stated that he doesn't give a shit. So that brings us back to our point. The root of the problem isn't the pitch-forking, it's these players themselves.

On May 08 2012 06:40 LanTAs wrote:
Maybe there should be some a judicial branch of the SC2 community where we can hold these guys up for "trial". There could be like 9 judges (maybe each representing a site or some kind of community from somewhere) and like that could be something like a supreme court.

On May 08 2012 06:54 Chocobo wrote:


You, and so many other people, are missing the point.

Some players act in unpleasant and potentially offensive ways sometimes. This is a small problem. I say "small" because the solution is to simply avoid watching that player, but still... a few players will unexpectedly come across this bad behavior and be offended.

And what is the solution to this problem? Well, I can tell you what's NOT the solution - a mob of angry people going on witchhunts, frequently complaining to sponsors whenever they see something they don't like.

That is a much larger problem for the success of Starcraft 2 and the growth of E-sports. People who emailed Razer directly are a MUCH bigger harmful influence than Destiny or Orb.

Stop talking about "but Destiny deserved it" or "he used his free speech, well I just used my free speech back by complaining to sponsors", or "what goes around comes around". It's irrelevant and nobody cares what you reasons are.

Bottom line is that it is a significantly bad thing for the success of E-sports and continued sponsorships when people mass-complain to sponsors. It doesn't matter if you're doing it for a good reason - it hurts the game, and it is not the right way to handle things.

On May 08 2012 00:12 SnuggleZhenya wrote:



I think this is a fundamental difference of opinion. In any other case (professional athlete, radio show host, tv personality, etc) I would absolutely notify sponsors that they were supporting someone who was saying these kinds of things. In fact, that are already countless examples of this happening, this isn't just some hypothetical. Now, I will come out and say right now that I've never contacted a sponsor about anything with regards to eSports/professional gaming, if only because by the time I find out about this stuff the ship has generally already sailed. One of the major differences, I freely admit, is that eSports teams and players are currently far more reliant on their sponsors than some other traditional sports, so it can be more damaging than it might be otherwise...


But this is something that eSports organizations going to have to learn to deal with. Players are public figures - especially when they are streaming or competing. And people are going to be upset by their actions if they are offensive. We can hem and haw and nitpick all day about just HOW offensive any given thing is, or whether or not someone "should" be offended by this or that, but at the end of the day the onus is on eSports organizations to handle this. That includes: setting clear rules and regulations for their players, being careful about who their sign to contracts if they have a history of this behavior, and so forth

Imagine this scenario in a pro sports environment. People absolutely would contact that player's sponsors. The player would likely be fined by the team and/or the league - probably as outlined in their contracts and player conduct rules. They player would also likely be suspended from a few games. They player would likely make a public apology, face some consequences, and people would feel ok about it because there was an acceptable punishment, the person apologized, and everyone can move on from the situation.
But right now there is no way to do this outside of the Korean eSports organizations which have some kind of central authority, and I suspect that is part of the problem here. There is no standard for conduct, there is no set of rules for what constitutes punishment for this sort of thing, and all of this is complicated even more by the fact that unlike in pro sports there is lots of solo "practice" time that is actually also broadcast public, so the lines between private and public are very blurred. We are seeing the results of a chaotic system which has no particular control over its players. There are some benefits to this, to be sure, but it also means that any player can do or say something which reflects poorly on EVERYONE, and there is no recourse.

Honestly, I don't have hard and fast answers to this problem. It is complicated and complex and given the nature of how this scene has grown - particularly around things like personal streaming - it is going to continue to be a problem. I'd like to see it start with the teams myself - if they had simple rules for conduct and punishment then this sort of thing would get dealt with publically and quickly. "Sorry I said this, it was in the heat of the moment and it was the wrong thing to say, I apologize" The team could fine them (which would act not just as a deterrent, but as a public acknowledgement of "we take this seriously"). And I think if people knew that teams took it seriously they would feel less compelled to go to the sponsors anyway.