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On May 08 2012 06:32 Dundron2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 06:26 alpinefpOPP wrote:
What's sad about all these situations is that most of the people leading the mobs with their pitchforks dont even care about what was said. I agree when someone says racism and biggotry shouldnt be tolerated anyhwere, thats true, but the matter of the fact is that a huge number of people are just out to get anyone who slips up just because they can. What's even worse is the fact that it will never stop, this will continue until the community dies. yes.. being against racist language truly the blight of our beloved community. please note obvious sarcasm.
Do you even read the thread before you write your reply?
Tell me how "writing to the sponsors" is the same argument with "getting rid of racism".
They are not the same fucking thing, so stop mixing them up.
If during the Coach Lee accusing EG of poaching their player drama, the community learnt how to write the sponsors. It can easily destroy a team for some lies given by someone who will later be proved full of shit.
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On May 08 2012 06:59 Dundron2000 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 06:54 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 05:28 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:26 TheDougler wrote:On May 08 2012 05:21 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:10 QuanticCinergy wrote:On May 08 2012 04:48 windsupernova wrote:On May 08 2012 04:44 QuanticCinergy wrote:
Wow, I wrote a really awesome reply explaining my position on this in detail, and the browser didn't post properly, or I wasn't logged in or something, anyhow.... what I say here are my own views as a custodian of this community and it's future, not as a business leader and should not be viewed as an official position of Quantic Gaming - because we didn't make one, remember - that wasn't by accident. I have nothing to gain by sharing my personal perspective, but I hope that perhaps some of you might:
It's required that you speak directly with the player before making a statement of any kind. Unable to reach him until later than evening, and because TL did not close the forum post for the benefit of everyone involved, the sponsor calling and emails and brand bashing campaign were already well underway by then - the damage was done - making any sort of statement at that point would have only prolonged and increased the severity of the damage report. Bottom line - when people you work with at sponsors are being tapped in the shoulder by executive management they usually only know by name and title, about tickets/emails/calls from people talking about Hitler - people's jobs are on the line. Steven did all there was left to do by leaving the team willingly and respectfully. I respect and support his decision, and will miss working with him, because his antics aside, almost every pro player out there, aside from maybe White-Ra, could learn something from Steven about serving fans and building brands. Steven has done more direct community engagement for charitable causes than any other single player in the scene, and has always given of himself for fans, even for his critics. To assert that we shouldn't have provided him an opportunity to grow as a player and as a professional, when he expressed a clear desire to be taken more seriously in both, is a dramatic oversimplification of things that is mis-guided, cruel, and unfair. While I disagree with his using discriminatory language, Steven, in spite of his inner rage getting the best of him at times, may be full of a lot of things, but hate isn't one of them. Why not respond with a simple..."we know about this thread, we'll talk with the people involved"? That should at least buy you guys some time no? If people feel that their concerns are not being responded they will go to a higher instance.Hell Destiny had time to respond to the thread to say he doesn't give a ****. Why couldn't you guys take 5 minutes to at least appease the crowd? I don't think you are clearly understanding my point at all here, there was no time. I realize it may all seem super simple from your standpoint, but things in a situation like this must be handled very carefully. We couldn't reach our player, had no idea when or where this dialog would go or when it would stop. We can't just be pacifying people with bullshit to comfort them. We must first fully understand what has happened, what has transpired transpired since, and where things stand now, both externally as well as with the player them self. By the time we had all of the needed information to be able to do anything productive the damage was already done... The thing is, why does it need to even get to the point where viewers have to contact the team OR sponsor? Shouldn't the management itself have already told their employees to act professionally in public when representing the teams and sponsors? Or at the very least, shouldn't the players themselves have some common sense to be somewhat professional in public, especially considering the basis of this whole industry relies heavily on sponsorship (and therefore public image)? QuanticCinergy has already stated a couple of times that they do tell their employees to act professionally and of course the players should have that common sense to act professional in public. Thing is, Destiny clearly was NOT that type of guy to even begin with, and even after people complained, he publicly stated that he doesn't give a shit. So that brings us back to our point. The root of the problem isn't the pitch-forking, it's these players themselves. You, and so many other people, are missing the point. Some players act in unpleasant and potentially offensive ways sometimes. This is a small problem. I say "small" because the solution is to simply avoid watching that player, but still... a few players will unexpectedly come across this bad behavior and be offended. And what is the solution to this problem? Well, I can tell you what's NOT the solution - a mob of angry people going on witchhunts, frequently complaining to sponsors whenever they see something they don't like. That is a much larger problem for the success of Starcraft 2 and the growth of E-sports. People who emailed Razer directly are a MUCH bigger harmful influence than Destiny or Orb. Stop talking about "but Destiny deserved it" or "he used his free speech, well I just used my free speech back by complaining to sponsors", or "what goes around comes around". It's irrelevant and nobody cares what you reasons are. Bottom line is that it is a significantly bad thing for the success of E-sports and continued sponsorships when people mass-complain to sponsors. It doesn't matter if you're doing it for a good reason - it hurts the game, and it is not the right way to handle things. no. just don't use racial slurs and then act like you're saving the internet from the taliban.
Then you can find something else to move on to witch hunt about?
There will always be drama, and if writing to sponsors is the go to solution, soon this scene will be more of a joke.
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OK, you guys win!
Take all our players, take all our funding, we'll just go away and do something else, alright?
Are we happy now?
Good.
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On May 08 2012 07:30 Mioraka wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 06:59 Dundron2000 wrote:On May 08 2012 06:54 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 05:28 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:26 TheDougler wrote:On May 08 2012 05:21 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:10 QuanticCinergy wrote:On May 08 2012 04:48 windsupernova wrote:On May 08 2012 04:44 QuanticCinergy wrote:
Wow, I wrote a really awesome reply explaining my position on this in detail, and the browser didn't post properly, or I wasn't logged in or something, anyhow.... what I say here are my own views as a custodian of this community and it's future, not as a business leader and should not be viewed as an official position of Quantic Gaming - because we didn't make one, remember - that wasn't by accident. I have nothing to gain by sharing my personal perspective, but I hope that perhaps some of you might:
It's required that you speak directly with the player before making a statement of any kind. Unable to reach him until later than evening, and because TL did not close the forum post for the benefit of everyone involved, the sponsor calling and emails and brand bashing campaign were already well underway by then - the damage was done - making any sort of statement at that point would have only prolonged and increased the severity of the damage report. Bottom line - when people you work with at sponsors are being tapped in the shoulder by executive management they usually only know by name and title, about tickets/emails/calls from people talking about Hitler - people's jobs are on the line. Steven did all there was left to do by leaving the team willingly and respectfully. I respect and support his decision, and will miss working with him, because his antics aside, almost every pro player out there, aside from maybe White-Ra, could learn something from Steven about serving fans and building brands. Steven has done more direct community engagement for charitable causes than any other single player in the scene, and has always given of himself for fans, even for his critics. To assert that we shouldn't have provided him an opportunity to grow as a player and as a professional, when he expressed a clear desire to be taken more seriously in both, is a dramatic oversimplification of things that is mis-guided, cruel, and unfair. While I disagree with his using discriminatory language, Steven, in spite of his inner rage getting the best of him at times, may be full of a lot of things, but hate isn't one of them. Why not respond with a simple..."we know about this thread, we'll talk with the people involved"? That should at least buy you guys some time no? If people feel that their concerns are not being responded they will go to a higher instance.Hell Destiny had time to respond to the thread to say he doesn't give a ****. Why couldn't you guys take 5 minutes to at least appease the crowd? I don't think you are clearly understanding my point at all here, there was no time. I realize it may all seem super simple from your standpoint, but things in a situation like this must be handled very carefully. We couldn't reach our player, had no idea when or where this dialog would go or when it would stop. We can't just be pacifying people with bullshit to comfort them. We must first fully understand what has happened, what has transpired transpired since, and where things stand now, both externally as well as with the player them self. By the time we had all of the needed information to be able to do anything productive the damage was already done... The thing is, why does it need to even get to the point where viewers have to contact the team OR sponsor? Shouldn't the management itself have already told their employees to act professionally in public when representing the teams and sponsors? Or at the very least, shouldn't the players themselves have some common sense to be somewhat professional in public, especially considering the basis of this whole industry relies heavily on sponsorship (and therefore public image)? QuanticCinergy has already stated a couple of times that they do tell their employees to act professionally and of course the players should have that common sense to act professional in public. Thing is, Destiny clearly was NOT that type of guy to even begin with, and even after people complained, he publicly stated that he doesn't give a shit. So that brings us back to our point. The root of the problem isn't the pitch-forking, it's these players themselves. You, and so many other people, are missing the point. Some players act in unpleasant and potentially offensive ways sometimes. This is a small problem. I say "small" because the solution is to simply avoid watching that player, but still... a few players will unexpectedly come across this bad behavior and be offended. And what is the solution to this problem? Well, I can tell you what's NOT the solution - a mob of angry people going on witchhunts, frequently complaining to sponsors whenever they see something they don't like. That is a much larger problem for the success of Starcraft 2 and the growth of E-sports. People who emailed Razer directly are a MUCH bigger harmful influence than Destiny or Orb. Stop talking about "but Destiny deserved it" or "he used his free speech, well I just used my free speech back by complaining to sponsors", or "what goes around comes around". It's irrelevant and nobody cares what you reasons are. Bottom line is that it is a significantly bad thing for the success of E-sports and continued sponsorships when people mass-complain to sponsors. It doesn't matter if you're doing it for a good reason - it hurts the game, and it is not the right way to handle things. no. just don't use racial slurs and then act like you're saving the internet from the taliban. Then you can find something else to move on to witch hunt about? There will always be drama, and if writing to sponsors is the go to solution, soon this scene will be more of a joke.
A large amount of TeamLiquid posters seem to really like strawmen. Can you tell me, is it their pointy hats you like so much?
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Does the OP realize that the witches in "witch hunts" were not actually practicing magic?
Does the OP realize that racial slurs are not widely accepted by people?
Does the OP seriously think that cleaning up that kind of language will make Esports less appealing?
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On May 08 2012 07:30 Mioraka wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 06:59 Dundron2000 wrote:On May 08 2012 06:54 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 05:28 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:26 TheDougler wrote:On May 08 2012 05:21 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:10 QuanticCinergy wrote:On May 08 2012 04:48 windsupernova wrote:On May 08 2012 04:44 QuanticCinergy wrote:
Wow, I wrote a really awesome reply explaining my position on this in detail, and the browser didn't post properly, or I wasn't logged in or something, anyhow.... what I say here are my own views as a custodian of this community and it's future, not as a business leader and should not be viewed as an official position of Quantic Gaming - because we didn't make one, remember - that wasn't by accident. I have nothing to gain by sharing my personal perspective, but I hope that perhaps some of you might:
It's required that you speak directly with the player before making a statement of any kind. Unable to reach him until later than evening, and because TL did not close the forum post for the benefit of everyone involved, the sponsor calling and emails and brand bashing campaign were already well underway by then - the damage was done - making any sort of statement at that point would have only prolonged and increased the severity of the damage report. Bottom line - when people you work with at sponsors are being tapped in the shoulder by executive management they usually only know by name and title, about tickets/emails/calls from people talking about Hitler - people's jobs are on the line. Steven did all there was left to do by leaving the team willingly and respectfully. I respect and support his decision, and will miss working with him, because his antics aside, almost every pro player out there, aside from maybe White-Ra, could learn something from Steven about serving fans and building brands. Steven has done more direct community engagement for charitable causes than any other single player in the scene, and has always given of himself for fans, even for his critics. To assert that we shouldn't have provided him an opportunity to grow as a player and as a professional, when he expressed a clear desire to be taken more seriously in both, is a dramatic oversimplification of things that is mis-guided, cruel, and unfair. While I disagree with his using discriminatory language, Steven, in spite of his inner rage getting the best of him at times, may be full of a lot of things, but hate isn't one of them. Why not respond with a simple..."we know about this thread, we'll talk with the people involved"? That should at least buy you guys some time no? If people feel that their concerns are not being responded they will go to a higher instance.Hell Destiny had time to respond to the thread to say he doesn't give a ****. Why couldn't you guys take 5 minutes to at least appease the crowd? I don't think you are clearly understanding my point at all here, there was no time. I realize it may all seem super simple from your standpoint, but things in a situation like this must be handled very carefully. We couldn't reach our player, had no idea when or where this dialog would go or when it would stop. We can't just be pacifying people with bullshit to comfort them. We must first fully understand what has happened, what has transpired transpired since, and where things stand now, both externally as well as with the player them self. By the time we had all of the needed information to be able to do anything productive the damage was already done... The thing is, why does it need to even get to the point where viewers have to contact the team OR sponsor? Shouldn't the management itself have already told their employees to act professionally in public when representing the teams and sponsors? Or at the very least, shouldn't the players themselves have some common sense to be somewhat professional in public, especially considering the basis of this whole industry relies heavily on sponsorship (and therefore public image)? QuanticCinergy has already stated a couple of times that they do tell their employees to act professionally and of course the players should have that common sense to act professional in public. Thing is, Destiny clearly was NOT that type of guy to even begin with, and even after people complained, he publicly stated that he doesn't give a shit. So that brings us back to our point. The root of the problem isn't the pitch-forking, it's these players themselves. You, and so many other people, are missing the point. Some players act in unpleasant and potentially offensive ways sometimes. This is a small problem. I say "small" because the solution is to simply avoid watching that player, but still... a few players will unexpectedly come across this bad behavior and be offended. And what is the solution to this problem? Well, I can tell you what's NOT the solution - a mob of angry people going on witchhunts, frequently complaining to sponsors whenever they see something they don't like. That is a much larger problem for the success of Starcraft 2 and the growth of E-sports. People who emailed Razer directly are a MUCH bigger harmful influence than Destiny or Orb. Stop talking about "but Destiny deserved it" or "he used his free speech, well I just used my free speech back by complaining to sponsors", or "what goes around comes around". It's irrelevant and nobody cares what you reasons are. Bottom line is that it is a significantly bad thing for the success of E-sports and continued sponsorships when people mass-complain to sponsors. It doesn't matter if you're doing it for a good reason - it hurts the game, and it is not the right way to handle things. no. just don't use racial slurs and then act like you're saving the internet from the taliban. Then you can find something else to move on to witch hunt about? There will always be drama, and if writing to sponsors is the go to solution, soon this scene will be more of a joke.
This position misses the entire point of the issue. The root of this problem is that there are individuals who are accepting money from sponsors and then behaving in ways of which the sponsors clearly do not approve. Whether the community gives feedback to the sponsors or the teams is incidental (although I agree that in the future it would be better overall to pursue the issue more vigorously with the teams before running directly to the sponsors). In the end, what is truly harmful for the scene is that there are individuals who are not living up to the ethical obligations entailed in accepting a sponsorship.
If these individuals were acting in ways of which the sponsors approved, then no amount of "witch hunting" would matter, because the individuals in question would be acting ethically and the sponsors would ignore that particular feedback. Unethical behavior is the problem, not "witch hunting."
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On May 08 2012 07:32 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 07:30 Mioraka wrote:On May 08 2012 06:59 Dundron2000 wrote:On May 08 2012 06:54 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 05:28 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:26 TheDougler wrote:On May 08 2012 05:21 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:10 QuanticCinergy wrote:On May 08 2012 04:48 windsupernova wrote:On May 08 2012 04:44 QuanticCinergy wrote:
Wow, I wrote a really awesome reply explaining my position on this in detail, and the browser didn't post properly, or I wasn't logged in or something, anyhow.... what I say here are my own views as a custodian of this community and it's future, not as a business leader and should not be viewed as an official position of Quantic Gaming - because we didn't make one, remember - that wasn't by accident. I have nothing to gain by sharing my personal perspective, but I hope that perhaps some of you might:
It's required that you speak directly with the player before making a statement of any kind. Unable to reach him until later than evening, and because TL did not close the forum post for the benefit of everyone involved, the sponsor calling and emails and brand bashing campaign were already well underway by then - the damage was done - making any sort of statement at that point would have only prolonged and increased the severity of the damage report. Bottom line - when people you work with at sponsors are being tapped in the shoulder by executive management they usually only know by name and title, about tickets/emails/calls from people talking about Hitler - people's jobs are on the line. Steven did all there was left to do by leaving the team willingly and respectfully. I respect and support his decision, and will miss working with him, because his antics aside, almost every pro player out there, aside from maybe White-Ra, could learn something from Steven about serving fans and building brands. Steven has done more direct community engagement for charitable causes than any other single player in the scene, and has always given of himself for fans, even for his critics. To assert that we shouldn't have provided him an opportunity to grow as a player and as a professional, when he expressed a clear desire to be taken more seriously in both, is a dramatic oversimplification of things that is mis-guided, cruel, and unfair. While I disagree with his using discriminatory language, Steven, in spite of his inner rage getting the best of him at times, may be full of a lot of things, but hate isn't one of them. Why not respond with a simple..."we know about this thread, we'll talk with the people involved"? That should at least buy you guys some time no? If people feel that their concerns are not being responded they will go to a higher instance.Hell Destiny had time to respond to the thread to say he doesn't give a ****. Why couldn't you guys take 5 minutes to at least appease the crowd? I don't think you are clearly understanding my point at all here, there was no time. I realize it may all seem super simple from your standpoint, but things in a situation like this must be handled very carefully. We couldn't reach our player, had no idea when or where this dialog would go or when it would stop. We can't just be pacifying people with bullshit to comfort them. We must first fully understand what has happened, what has transpired transpired since, and where things stand now, both externally as well as with the player them self. By the time we had all of the needed information to be able to do anything productive the damage was already done... The thing is, why does it need to even get to the point where viewers have to contact the team OR sponsor? Shouldn't the management itself have already told their employees to act professionally in public when representing the teams and sponsors? Or at the very least, shouldn't the players themselves have some common sense to be somewhat professional in public, especially considering the basis of this whole industry relies heavily on sponsorship (and therefore public image)? QuanticCinergy has already stated a couple of times that they do tell their employees to act professionally and of course the players should have that common sense to act professional in public. Thing is, Destiny clearly was NOT that type of guy to even begin with, and even after people complained, he publicly stated that he doesn't give a shit. So that brings us back to our point. The root of the problem isn't the pitch-forking, it's these players themselves. You, and so many other people, are missing the point. Some players act in unpleasant and potentially offensive ways sometimes. This is a small problem. I say "small" because the solution is to simply avoid watching that player, but still... a few players will unexpectedly come across this bad behavior and be offended. And what is the solution to this problem? Well, I can tell you what's NOT the solution - a mob of angry people going on witchhunts, frequently complaining to sponsors whenever they see something they don't like. That is a much larger problem for the success of Starcraft 2 and the growth of E-sports. People who emailed Razer directly are a MUCH bigger harmful influence than Destiny or Orb. Stop talking about "but Destiny deserved it" or "he used his free speech, well I just used my free speech back by complaining to sponsors", or "what goes around comes around". It's irrelevant and nobody cares what you reasons are. Bottom line is that it is a significantly bad thing for the success of E-sports and continued sponsorships when people mass-complain to sponsors. It doesn't matter if you're doing it for a good reason - it hurts the game, and it is not the right way to handle things. no. just don't use racial slurs and then act like you're saving the internet from the taliban. Then you can find something else to move on to witch hunt about? There will always be drama, and if writing to sponsors is the go to solution, soon this scene will be more of a joke. A large amount of TeamLiquid posters seem to really like strawmen. Can you tell me, is it their pointy hats you like so much?
A large amount of teamliquid posters seem to really like misuse the term strawmen.
It is not hard to incite hatred with misinformation, go read the 300 pages about the EG drama, and tell me there weren't enough people angry enough to write to their sponsors if someone proposed it.
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On May 08 2012 04:42 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:34 Doodsmack wrote:On May 08 2012 03:42 HorsemasterK wrote:On May 08 2012 03:41 windsupernova wrote:On May 08 2012 03:39 gogatorsfoster wrote:On May 08 2012 03:32 Terrafros wrote:
Naniwa's case went too far.
Orb's case went too far.
Destiny's case was proper.
In the first two, the team was not contacted. In the third, it was. If a team chooses not to listen to the fans, then they can go to the sponsors instead. This was not a case of immediate contact with the sponsors, Quantic chose to ignore the complaints about Destiny's behaviour, and thus, their sponsors got involved. A lot of people keep saying that quantic did nothing, the whole ordeal happened over the course of 3 days max. And you can bet people didnt wait to e-mail sponsors in the first place. I feel like if you really feel the need to pitchfork you should at least give the team a week or even 5 days. The team cant instantly fire someone they have to decide if it is justified or not. Team"We are looking into this claims" Doesn't seems it takes a week to do this. Especially when this is a pattern of behavior, and one that started BEFORE he even joined the team. They can't claim ignorance on this one. The funny thing is that this raises the question of why the people who emailed the sponsors waited for a public drama thread rather than emailin right after Quantic signed destiny. If their excuse for the question of why they didn't give Quantic even 5 days to respond is "well Quantic already knew his behavior so what's gonna change now", then surely they would have emailed Razer right when quantic signed destiny, right? After all it's not like Quantic or destiny were going to change their ways down the line. But of course it wasn't until drama erupted that they got "outraged", because they're not really standin up for racial equality, they just are getting something out of fueling the flames of some drama. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_that_broke_the_camel's_backPeople weren't just willing to stand that kind of behavior anymore? Especially now that he was sponsored? It isn't really that hard..... E: But sure feel free to keep pretending that there are no legit explanations other than :"ZOMG the drama/Mob mentality/Ego issues"
Rofl @ the "I'm starter than you" wikipedia link. Don't pretend that the kids who emailed sponsors were actually giving it enough thought over time for there to be a "straw that broke the camel's back." Destiny was acting like this as a Quantic player before Warden's thread. If you people were really so morally outraged and interested in fighting for racial equality, you would have made your own thread with a screenshot or audio clip before Warden made his thread.
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On May 08 2012 06:27 Akash1223 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 06:20 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 06:09 plogamer wrote:On May 08 2012 05:54 oBlade wrote:On May 08 2012 04:44 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 04:38 crocodile wrote:On May 08 2012 04:34 Doodsmack wrote:On May 08 2012 03:42 HorsemasterK wrote:On May 08 2012 03:41 windsupernova wrote:On May 08 2012 03:39 gogatorsfoster wrote:
[quote]
A lot of people keep saying that quantic did nothing, the whole ordeal happened over the course of 3 days max. And you can bet people didnt wait to e-mail sponsors in the first place. I feel like if you really feel the need to pitchfork you should at least give the team a week or even 5 days. The team cant instantly fire someone they have to decide if it is justified or not.
Team"We are looking into this claims" Doesn't seems it takes a week to do this. Especially when this is a pattern of behavior, and one that started BEFORE he even joined the team. They can't claim ignorance on this one. The funny thing is that this raises the question of why the people who emailed the sponsors waited for a public drama thread rather than emailin right after Quantic signed destiny. If their excuse for the question of why they didn't give Quantic even 5 days to respond is "well Quantic already knew his behavior so what's gonna change now", then surely they would have emailed Razer right when quantic signed destiny, right? After all it's not like Quantic or destiny were going to change their ways down the line. But of course it wasn't until drama erupted that they got "outraged", because they're not really standin up for racial equality, they just are getting something out of fueling the flames of some drama. Exactly. Anyone have an answer for this? You guys disgust me. I'm not even joking or exaggerating; I had faith that Starcraft 2 could grow beyond what it is now before this happened. Because of this incident, I'm sure it will remain in the background. Never to be on ESPN, never to cross into the mainstream in any way. It's a shame that you people can't see past your blind hatred and learn to see the big picture. Quite the opposite actually. It's people like YOU that disgust us. E-sport can NOT grow with professional players being racists left and right in public and with supporter like you telling others to "shut up and just don't watch if you don't like the racism". As been said, no other professional sports or entertainment industries have their players/employees sprouting racist comments in public, and neither should E-sport if it truly wants to be as big as the other industries. I don't know of any bad things that happened from the orb or Destiny situation besides two guys losing their business engagements. Esports is a big place. It's like saying MLG isn't as big as television because Destiny or orb said nigger, whereas actually you can also turn on HBO if you want to hear all manner of interesting words. But nobody would say HBO is killing television. The only tangible damage that was done was people taking it upon themselves to be the guardians of a community that is millions of times greater than they are and losing some people their connections to sponsors. If someone would like SC2 to be on cable, he can support something like MLG which is a very mainstream organization which could possibly go in that direction. Destiny's stream was never going to be on fucking ESPN to begin with, it's absurd to claim his innocuous ladder BM is stopping us having a bigger community. The thing that stops us having a bigger community is people who think it's their business how other people enjoy this game. Yeah, God forbid if I get enjoyment in this game by making racist insults at my opponents. And worst of all, he says something about it on TL/Reddit; and people sympathize with him! They take action, and hey, that's not fair. I'm a victim now, and not him! This isn't how it is supposed to work. Other people exercised their freedom of speech as per their wish (you know, contacting sponsors, making/posting threads on TL/Reddit). And yet, some would hypocritically lecture them on the consequences of doing so. You didn't really read. I said these players didn't cause any harm besides that of losing their own sponsors due to the self-righteous backlash from people. The way consequences work in the real world isn't that when you cross the street without looking, your peers tattle to your mom and she spanks you. It's that you get killed by a bus. Or you cause a pileup when a bus swerves to avoid splattering you. What Destiny and orb did in this case was walk across the street without looking and find themselves safely on the other side. They said nigger and nothing happened. Nothing happened to anyone. Then the internet found out about it, emailed people with a red face rather than a cool head, and they had to leave their organizations. Seriously this argument is basically "There are consequences because I think there should be," then you email sponsors, thereby getting people to resign, and say "I told you there were consequences." Your analogy is ridiculous. Crossing the street without looking and making it safely to the other side has no impact on anyone. People using language others find offensive obviously has an impact on then people who found the language offensive, or nothing would have happened.
In that case people need to stop 2raxing because it obviously destroys the emotional integrity of everyone who loses to it. This is plainly not a tangible consequence or comparable to someone losing their sponsor, or a sponsor leaving the scene entirely (which is more likely to happen the more people email sponsors in a fit of rage). People who are easily offended can turn on the mature language filter built into SC2. Further, if they really want to give a proportionate response to BM, they can use the report feature on Battle.net or probably PM a mod here if it has something to do with a stream.
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On May 08 2012 07:37 adun12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 07:30 Mioraka wrote:On May 08 2012 06:59 Dundron2000 wrote:On May 08 2012 06:54 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 05:28 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:26 TheDougler wrote:On May 08 2012 05:21 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:10 QuanticCinergy wrote:On May 08 2012 04:48 windsupernova wrote:On May 08 2012 04:44 QuanticCinergy wrote:
Wow, I wrote a really awesome reply explaining my position on this in detail, and the browser didn't post properly, or I wasn't logged in or something, anyhow.... what I say here are my own views as a custodian of this community and it's future, not as a business leader and should not be viewed as an official position of Quantic Gaming - because we didn't make one, remember - that wasn't by accident. I have nothing to gain by sharing my personal perspective, but I hope that perhaps some of you might:
It's required that you speak directly with the player before making a statement of any kind. Unable to reach him until later than evening, and because TL did not close the forum post for the benefit of everyone involved, the sponsor calling and emails and brand bashing campaign were already well underway by then - the damage was done - making any sort of statement at that point would have only prolonged and increased the severity of the damage report. Bottom line - when people you work with at sponsors are being tapped in the shoulder by executive management they usually only know by name and title, about tickets/emails/calls from people talking about Hitler - people's jobs are on the line. Steven did all there was left to do by leaving the team willingly and respectfully. I respect and support his decision, and will miss working with him, because his antics aside, almost every pro player out there, aside from maybe White-Ra, could learn something from Steven about serving fans and building brands. Steven has done more direct community engagement for charitable causes than any other single player in the scene, and has always given of himself for fans, even for his critics. To assert that we shouldn't have provided him an opportunity to grow as a player and as a professional, when he expressed a clear desire to be taken more seriously in both, is a dramatic oversimplification of things that is mis-guided, cruel, and unfair. While I disagree with his using discriminatory language, Steven, in spite of his inner rage getting the best of him at times, may be full of a lot of things, but hate isn't one of them. Why not respond with a simple..."we know about this thread, we'll talk with the people involved"? That should at least buy you guys some time no? If people feel that their concerns are not being responded they will go to a higher instance.Hell Destiny had time to respond to the thread to say he doesn't give a ****. Why couldn't you guys take 5 minutes to at least appease the crowd? I don't think you are clearly understanding my point at all here, there was no time. I realize it may all seem super simple from your standpoint, but things in a situation like this must be handled very carefully. We couldn't reach our player, had no idea when or where this dialog would go or when it would stop. We can't just be pacifying people with bullshit to comfort them. We must first fully understand what has happened, what has transpired transpired since, and where things stand now, both externally as well as with the player them self. By the time we had all of the needed information to be able to do anything productive the damage was already done... The thing is, why does it need to even get to the point where viewers have to contact the team OR sponsor? Shouldn't the management itself have already told their employees to act professionally in public when representing the teams and sponsors? Or at the very least, shouldn't the players themselves have some common sense to be somewhat professional in public, especially considering the basis of this whole industry relies heavily on sponsorship (and therefore public image)? QuanticCinergy has already stated a couple of times that they do tell their employees to act professionally and of course the players should have that common sense to act professional in public. Thing is, Destiny clearly was NOT that type of guy to even begin with, and even after people complained, he publicly stated that he doesn't give a shit. So that brings us back to our point. The root of the problem isn't the pitch-forking, it's these players themselves. You, and so many other people, are missing the point. Some players act in unpleasant and potentially offensive ways sometimes. This is a small problem. I say "small" because the solution is to simply avoid watching that player, but still... a few players will unexpectedly come across this bad behavior and be offended. And what is the solution to this problem? Well, I can tell you what's NOT the solution - a mob of angry people going on witchhunts, frequently complaining to sponsors whenever they see something they don't like. That is a much larger problem for the success of Starcraft 2 and the growth of E-sports. People who emailed Razer directly are a MUCH bigger harmful influence than Destiny or Orb. Stop talking about "but Destiny deserved it" or "he used his free speech, well I just used my free speech back by complaining to sponsors", or "what goes around comes around". It's irrelevant and nobody cares what you reasons are. Bottom line is that it is a significantly bad thing for the success of E-sports and continued sponsorships when people mass-complain to sponsors. It doesn't matter if you're doing it for a good reason - it hurts the game, and it is not the right way to handle things. no. just don't use racial slurs and then act like you're saving the internet from the taliban. Then you can find something else to move on to witch hunt about? There will always be drama, and if writing to sponsors is the go to solution, soon this scene will be more of a joke. This position misses the entire point of the issue. The root of this problem is that there are individuals who are accepting money from sponsors and then behaving in ways of which the sponsors clearly do not approve. The community giving feedback to the sponsors is incidental - what is harmful for the scene is that there are individuals who are not living up to the ethical obligations entailed in accepting a sponsorship. If these individuals were acting in ways of which the sponsors approved, then no amount of "witch hunting" would matter, because the individuals in question would be acting ethically and the sponsors would ignore that particular feedback. Unethical behavior is the problem, not "witch hunting."
What is unethical behavior?
People keep saying this is a slippery slop, but it really doesn't take a lot to get a mob really angry.
What if I can get a screenshot of some pro insulting my mother in a ladder game? It really isn't hard, all you have to do is snipe him for a few times when he's laddering and keep cheesing him and doing things that make him angry.
Or, isn't player poaching unethical business practice? There were at least a thousand posts about how EG was having shady business practice. You think if someone says "let's email their sponsors!", the mobs won't do it?
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I seriously don't understand why you'd write to the sponsor, but on the other hand you would write to the sponsor if the player was acting unprofessionally. I don't understand why a SC2 gamer should be exempt from professional behaviour compared to, say, a heavily subscribed Youtube star, but at the same time writing to the sponsor is probably the most extreme form of action BECAUSE a sponsor WILL act on these things because they have their professional image to consider.
At the end of the day, Destiny is not apologising for his behaviour, making it seem that using offensive language is accepted (I'm not talking about racism here - just offensive language). Yes, it's funny to hear someone call someone a motherf**ker or elsewhat when you're watching their stream, but in all honesty what happens if you were the player being insulted? Would you perceive it as funny?
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On May 08 2012 07:36 Zealotdriver wrote:
Does the OP realize that the witches in "witch hunts" were not actually practicing magic?
Does the OP realize that racial slurs are not widely accepted by people?
Does the OP seriously think that cleaning up that kind of language will make Esports less appealing?
I don't know what the OP thinks, but I think that at no point in time ever in history has mob justice been a good thing, except when there is no other option available. In the case of Destiny, and also Orb, other options were available. People that went from 0 to freak the fuck out in less than a weekend are not heroes crusading for great justice, they basically just joined a lynch mob.
Another important question that should be asked is why anyone in the whole community thinks its any of their business what kind of word one person calls another.
As to your last question, I can't speak for the OP but I personally very definitely believe that the methods used in this so-called "cleaning up" very definitely make e-sports less appealing. Companies would probably rather not deal with a horde of willful, angry, petulant stampeding children. The absolute greatest failing of the internet is having no reliable way to verify people's age.
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On May 08 2012 07:37 Mioraka wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 07:32 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 08 2012 07:30 Mioraka wrote:On May 08 2012 06:59 Dundron2000 wrote:On May 08 2012 06:54 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 05:28 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:26 TheDougler wrote:On May 08 2012 05:21 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:10 QuanticCinergy wrote:On May 08 2012 04:48 windsupernova wrote:
[quote]
Why not respond with a simple..."we know about this thread, we'll talk with the people involved"?
That should at least buy you guys some time no? If people feel that their concerns are not being responded they will go to a higher instance.Hell Destiny had time to respond to the thread to say he doesn't give a ****. Why couldn't you guys take 5 minutes to at least appease the crowd? I don't think you are clearly understanding my point at all here, there was no time. I realize it may all seem super simple from your standpoint, but things in a situation like this must be handled very carefully. We couldn't reach our player, had no idea when or where this dialog would go or when it would stop. We can't just be pacifying people with bullshit to comfort them. We must first fully understand what has happened, what has transpired transpired since, and where things stand now, both externally as well as with the player them self. By the time we had all of the needed information to be able to do anything productive the damage was already done... The thing is, why does it need to even get to the point where viewers have to contact the team OR sponsor? Shouldn't the management itself have already told their employees to act professionally in public when representing the teams and sponsors? Or at the very least, shouldn't the players themselves have some common sense to be somewhat professional in public, especially considering the basis of this whole industry relies heavily on sponsorship (and therefore public image)? QuanticCinergy has already stated a couple of times that they do tell their employees to act professionally and of course the players should have that common sense to act professional in public. Thing is, Destiny clearly was NOT that type of guy to even begin with, and even after people complained, he publicly stated that he doesn't give a shit. So that brings us back to our point. The root of the problem isn't the pitch-forking, it's these players themselves. You, and so many other people, are missing the point. Some players act in unpleasant and potentially offensive ways sometimes. This is a small problem. I say "small" because the solution is to simply avoid watching that player, but still... a few players will unexpectedly come across this bad behavior and be offended. And what is the solution to this problem? Well, I can tell you what's NOT the solution - a mob of angry people going on witchhunts, frequently complaining to sponsors whenever they see something they don't like. That is a much larger problem for the success of Starcraft 2 and the growth of E-sports. People who emailed Razer directly are a MUCH bigger harmful influence than Destiny or Orb. Stop talking about "but Destiny deserved it" or "he used his free speech, well I just used my free speech back by complaining to sponsors", or "what goes around comes around". It's irrelevant and nobody cares what you reasons are. Bottom line is that it is a significantly bad thing for the success of E-sports and continued sponsorships when people mass-complain to sponsors. It doesn't matter if you're doing it for a good reason - it hurts the game, and it is not the right way to handle things. no. just don't use racial slurs and then act like you're saving the internet from the taliban. Then you can find something else to move on to witch hunt about? There will always be drama, and if writing to sponsors is the go to solution, soon this scene will be more of a joke. A large amount of TeamLiquid posters seem to really like strawmen. Can you tell me, is it their pointy hats you like so much? A large amount of teamliquid posters seem to really like misuse the term strawmen. It is not hard to incite hatred with misinformation, go read the 300 pages about the EG drama, and tell me there weren't enough people angry enough to write to their sponsors if someone proposed it.
Very true, it's not hard to think of other situations where sponsor contacting could potentially be even more dangerous for a team than in the Quantic/Destiny situation. If people are angry at the actions of a team's management (and if they perceive that team to be a successful organization with deep pockets), sponsor contact would seem to be apply to the whole team rather than to just one player (as in the Quantic/Destiny incident). Yet another reason why the reasonable among us should be prepared to contact sponsors en masse in these situations in support of the team. And also be prepared to drown out the phony white knights in the related threads. I'm certainly ready for war, and I hope other like-minded posters are as well.
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On May 08 2012 07:32 QuanticCinergy wrote:
OK, you guys win!
Take all our players, take all our funding, we'll just go away and do something else, alright?
Are we happy now?
Good.
Like it or not, you took a big risk taking Destiny on. It bit you in the arse.
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On May 08 2012 07:44 Mioraka wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 07:37 adun12345 wrote:On May 08 2012 07:30 Mioraka wrote:On May 08 2012 06:59 Dundron2000 wrote:On May 08 2012 06:54 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 05:28 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:26 TheDougler wrote:On May 08 2012 05:21 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:10 QuanticCinergy wrote:On May 08 2012 04:48 windsupernova wrote:
[quote]
Why not respond with a simple..."we know about this thread, we'll talk with the people involved"?
That should at least buy you guys some time no? If people feel that their concerns are not being responded they will go to a higher instance.Hell Destiny had time to respond to the thread to say he doesn't give a ****. Why couldn't you guys take 5 minutes to at least appease the crowd? I don't think you are clearly understanding my point at all here, there was no time. I realize it may all seem super simple from your standpoint, but things in a situation like this must be handled very carefully. We couldn't reach our player, had no idea when or where this dialog would go or when it would stop. We can't just be pacifying people with bullshit to comfort them. We must first fully understand what has happened, what has transpired transpired since, and where things stand now, both externally as well as with the player them self. By the time we had all of the needed information to be able to do anything productive the damage was already done... The thing is, why does it need to even get to the point where viewers have to contact the team OR sponsor? Shouldn't the management itself have already told their employees to act professionally in public when representing the teams and sponsors? Or at the very least, shouldn't the players themselves have some common sense to be somewhat professional in public, especially considering the basis of this whole industry relies heavily on sponsorship (and therefore public image)? QuanticCinergy has already stated a couple of times that they do tell their employees to act professionally and of course the players should have that common sense to act professional in public. Thing is, Destiny clearly was NOT that type of guy to even begin with, and even after people complained, he publicly stated that he doesn't give a shit. So that brings us back to our point. The root of the problem isn't the pitch-forking, it's these players themselves. You, and so many other people, are missing the point. Some players act in unpleasant and potentially offensive ways sometimes. This is a small problem. I say "small" because the solution is to simply avoid watching that player, but still... a few players will unexpectedly come across this bad behavior and be offended. And what is the solution to this problem? Well, I can tell you what's NOT the solution - a mob of angry people going on witchhunts, frequently complaining to sponsors whenever they see something they don't like. That is a much larger problem for the success of Starcraft 2 and the growth of E-sports. People who emailed Razer directly are a MUCH bigger harmful influence than Destiny or Orb. Stop talking about "but Destiny deserved it" or "he used his free speech, well I just used my free speech back by complaining to sponsors", or "what goes around comes around". It's irrelevant and nobody cares what you reasons are. Bottom line is that it is a significantly bad thing for the success of E-sports and continued sponsorships when people mass-complain to sponsors. It doesn't matter if you're doing it for a good reason - it hurts the game, and it is not the right way to handle things. no. just don't use racial slurs and then act like you're saving the internet from the taliban. Then you can find something else to move on to witch hunt about? There will always be drama, and if writing to sponsors is the go to solution, soon this scene will be more of a joke. This position misses the entire point of the issue. The root of this problem is that there are individuals who are accepting money from sponsors and then behaving in ways of which the sponsors clearly do not approve. The community giving feedback to the sponsors is incidental - what is harmful for the scene is that there are individuals who are not living up to the ethical obligations entailed in accepting a sponsorship. If these individuals were acting in ways of which the sponsors approved, then no amount of "witch hunting" would matter, because the individuals in question would be acting ethically and the sponsors would ignore that particular feedback. Unethical behavior is the problem, not "witch hunting." What is unethical behavior? People keep saying this is a slippery slop, but it really doesn't take a lot to get a mob really angry. What if I can get a screenshot of some pro insulting my mother in a ladder game? It really isn't hard, all you have to do is snipe him for a few times when he's laddering and keep cheesing him and doing things that make him angry. Or, isn't player poaching unethical business practice? There were at least a thousand posts about how EG was having shady business practice. You think if someone says "let's email their sponsors!", the mobs won't do it?
I doubt the mob would get angry at that. Besides, if you're sniping, that means the pro is streaming and therefore in the public eye and should be careful. Professionals in other sports can keep their anger to 'pc' language even while being goaded. Maybe it's time internet culture learned.
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The amount of energy channeled into these threads is astounding.
I don't agree with it entirely, but point taken, you're really pissed and you're willing to "go to the mattresses" if you feel wronged.
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On May 08 2012 07:51 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 07:44 Mioraka wrote:On May 08 2012 07:37 adun12345 wrote:On May 08 2012 07:30 Mioraka wrote:On May 08 2012 06:59 Dundron2000 wrote:On May 08 2012 06:54 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 05:28 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:26 TheDougler wrote:On May 08 2012 05:21 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:10 QuanticCinergy wrote:
[quote]
I don't think you are clearly understanding my point at all here, there was no time. I realize it may all seem super simple from your standpoint, but things in a situation like this must be handled very carefully. We couldn't reach our player, had no idea when or where this dialog would go or when it would stop. We can't just be pacifying people with bullshit to comfort them. We must first fully understand what has happened, what has transpired transpired since, and where things stand now, both externally as well as with the player them self. By the time we had all of the needed information to be able to do anything productive the damage was already done... The thing is, why does it need to even get to the point where viewers have to contact the team OR sponsor? Shouldn't the management itself have already told their employees to act professionally in public when representing the teams and sponsors? Or at the very least, shouldn't the players themselves have some common sense to be somewhat professional in public, especially considering the basis of this whole industry relies heavily on sponsorship (and therefore public image)? QuanticCinergy has already stated a couple of times that they do tell their employees to act professionally and of course the players should have that common sense to act professional in public. Thing is, Destiny clearly was NOT that type of guy to even begin with, and even after people complained, he publicly stated that he doesn't give a shit. So that brings us back to our point. The root of the problem isn't the pitch-forking, it's these players themselves. You, and so many other people, are missing the point. Some players act in unpleasant and potentially offensive ways sometimes. This is a small problem. I say "small" because the solution is to simply avoid watching that player, but still... a few players will unexpectedly come across this bad behavior and be offended. And what is the solution to this problem? Well, I can tell you what's NOT the solution - a mob of angry people going on witchhunts, frequently complaining to sponsors whenever they see something they don't like. That is a much larger problem for the success of Starcraft 2 and the growth of E-sports. People who emailed Razer directly are a MUCH bigger harmful influence than Destiny or Orb. Stop talking about "but Destiny deserved it" or "he used his free speech, well I just used my free speech back by complaining to sponsors", or "what goes around comes around". It's irrelevant and nobody cares what you reasons are. Bottom line is that it is a significantly bad thing for the success of E-sports and continued sponsorships when people mass-complain to sponsors. It doesn't matter if you're doing it for a good reason - it hurts the game, and it is not the right way to handle things. no. just don't use racial slurs and then act like you're saving the internet from the taliban. Then you can find something else to move on to witch hunt about? There will always be drama, and if writing to sponsors is the go to solution, soon this scene will be more of a joke. This position misses the entire point of the issue. The root of this problem is that there are individuals who are accepting money from sponsors and then behaving in ways of which the sponsors clearly do not approve. The community giving feedback to the sponsors is incidental - what is harmful for the scene is that there are individuals who are not living up to the ethical obligations entailed in accepting a sponsorship. If these individuals were acting in ways of which the sponsors approved, then no amount of "witch hunting" would matter, because the individuals in question would be acting ethically and the sponsors would ignore that particular feedback. Unethical behavior is the problem, not "witch hunting." What is unethical behavior? People keep saying this is a slippery slop, but it really doesn't take a lot to get a mob really angry. What if I can get a screenshot of some pro insulting my mother in a ladder game? It really isn't hard, all you have to do is snipe him for a few times when he's laddering and keep cheesing him and doing things that make him angry. Or, isn't player poaching unethical business practice? There were at least a thousand posts about how EG was having shady business practice. You think if someone says "let's email their sponsors!", the mobs won't do it? I doubt the mob would get angry at that. Besides, if you're sniping, that means the pro is streaming and therefore in the public eye and should be careful. Professionals in other sports can keep their anger to 'pc' language even while being goaded. Maybe it's time internet culture learned.
You can snipe without them streaming, as long as you can trick them to add you. The point is not the specific example, but rather how easy it is to spread misinformation on the internet, all you have to do is show only half of the picture.
You doubt people will get angry at the EG drama? Check those hundreds of pages of angry posts man.....
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Pros are constantly telling viewers to tweet sponsors and thank them for sponsoring events, teams, etc. One can't really be surprised when those same viewers contact a sponsor about something negative.
It's been said before, but if there were some governing body to dole out punishment or if people were more certain teams would actually pay attention they probably wouldn't be so quick to contact the sponsors
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On May 08 2012 07:51 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 07:44 Mioraka wrote:On May 08 2012 07:37 adun12345 wrote:On May 08 2012 07:30 Mioraka wrote:On May 08 2012 06:59 Dundron2000 wrote:On May 08 2012 06:54 Chocobo wrote:On May 08 2012 05:28 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:26 TheDougler wrote:On May 08 2012 05:21 Fubi wrote:On May 08 2012 05:10 QuanticCinergy wrote:
[quote]
I don't think you are clearly understanding my point at all here, there was no time. I realize it may all seem super simple from your standpoint, but things in a situation like this must be handled very carefully. We couldn't reach our player, had no idea when or where this dialog would go or when it would stop. We can't just be pacifying people with bullshit to comfort them. We must first fully understand what has happened, what has transpired transpired since, and where things stand now, both externally as well as with the player them self. By the time we had all of the needed information to be able to do anything productive the damage was already done... The thing is, why does it need to even get to the point where viewers have to contact the team OR sponsor? Shouldn't the management itself have already told their employees to act professionally in public when representing the teams and sponsors? Or at the very least, shouldn't the players themselves have some common sense to be somewhat professional in public, especially considering the basis of this whole industry relies heavily on sponsorship (and therefore public image)? QuanticCinergy has already stated a couple of times that they do tell their employees to act professionally and of course the players should have that common sense to act professional in public. Thing is, Destiny clearly was NOT that type of guy to even begin with, and even after people complained, he publicly stated that he doesn't give a shit. So that brings us back to our point. The root of the problem isn't the pitch-forking, it's these players themselves. You, and so many other people, are missing the point. Some players act in unpleasant and potentially offensive ways sometimes. This is a small problem. I say "small" because the solution is to simply avoid watching that player, but still... a few players will unexpectedly come across this bad behavior and be offended. And what is the solution to this problem? Well, I can tell you what's NOT the solution - a mob of angry people going on witchhunts, frequently complaining to sponsors whenever they see something they don't like. That is a much larger problem for the success of Starcraft 2 and the growth of E-sports. People who emailed Razer directly are a MUCH bigger harmful influence than Destiny or Orb. Stop talking about "but Destiny deserved it" or "he used his free speech, well I just used my free speech back by complaining to sponsors", or "what goes around comes around". It's irrelevant and nobody cares what you reasons are. Bottom line is that it is a significantly bad thing for the success of E-sports and continued sponsorships when people mass-complain to sponsors. It doesn't matter if you're doing it for a good reason - it hurts the game, and it is not the right way to handle things. no. just don't use racial slurs and then act like you're saving the internet from the taliban. Then you can find something else to move on to witch hunt about? There will always be drama, and if writing to sponsors is the go to solution, soon this scene will be more of a joke. This position misses the entire point of the issue. The root of this problem is that there are individuals who are accepting money from sponsors and then behaving in ways of which the sponsors clearly do not approve. The community giving feedback to the sponsors is incidental - what is harmful for the scene is that there are individuals who are not living up to the ethical obligations entailed in accepting a sponsorship. If these individuals were acting in ways of which the sponsors approved, then no amount of "witch hunting" would matter, because the individuals in question would be acting ethically and the sponsors would ignore that particular feedback. Unethical behavior is the problem, not "witch hunting." What is unethical behavior? People keep saying this is a slippery slop, but it really doesn't take a lot to get a mob really angry. What if I can get a screenshot of some pro insulting my mother in a ladder game? It really isn't hard, all you have to do is snipe him for a few times when he's laddering and keep cheesing him and doing things that make him angry. Or, isn't player poaching unethical business practice? There were at least a thousand posts about how EG was having shady business practice. You think if someone says "let's email their sponsors!", the mobs won't do it? I doubt the mob would get angry at that. Besides, if you're sniping, that means the pro is streaming and therefore in the public eye and should be careful. Professionals in other sports can keep their anger to 'pc' language even while being goaded. Maybe it's time internet culture learned.
Someone streaming online just means he's subject to public opinion, which basically means people who like him can become his fans, and people who have no interest in following him can watch one of the millions of other things going on in the community. It doesn't mean he has to run a G rated show or else suffer the emails of the self-righteous. There is obviously a demand involved because Destiny has a huge number of concurrent viewers.
Nal_ra has sworn on camera, and apparently you've never seen a hockey game. The players get so angry they actually do something harmful, that is, they get physically violent. I think this influx of people with random moral vendettas needs to learn it's not their job to regulate all the content on the web. This issue of what kind of content someone else is watching is none of your business.
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I think its a good thing Orb and Destiny got dealt with. It sends a message to other pro players and teams that professionalism matters.
Look at Orb now. He cleaned his shit up real quick. Destiny will take awhile, he thinks he can fight it, he'll get in line soon enough.
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EPT
