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On January 27 2014 10:50 ecarpenter84 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 22:43 korona wrote:
Ran some offset calculations for games played after Blizzard made league offset changes some 40 hours ago (little less than 4000 matches by 574 accounts). New diamond-master offset seems to be from 400 to 500 (I have more precise idea than that. The old value was 250). New master-grandmaster offset is likely 73 or something quite close (73 is Blizzard's 'magic number'. Old value was ~ from 400 to 420).
For couple of hours I tried out finding the other offsets based on user graphs, but did not end up with values that I would be satisfied with. Let's say that the current guesses are bronze-silver: close to old value, silver-gold: much smaller than old value, gold-plat: close to old value, plat-diam: smaller or much smaller than old value. I guess it is better to just wait for more data, so there would be more calculation results for other offsets (potentially will try again in next weekend if I have time). + Show Spoiler +It looks like the re-enabled showing points lost. IIRC you said it made things more difficult when they were not shown. Does this help people get "GOOD" game data post 2.1? http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/362351/1/JustRageQuit/matches#filter=soloIt shows it on the website tooo!
No. It has been like that since one month before HotS was published. If you have bonus points left after the match, then the minus points do not show up in the match history. But if your match depletes your bonus pool or it has been depleted already earlier, then the remainder of minus points are shown. There is no way to know if also bonus points were used. E.g. if you have 3 bonus points remaining, you lose the match and lose 12 points. In the match history it will then show -9. Based on that number there is no way to know how many bonus points were potentially used except in a very rare occasion when you lose -24 points.
But if there is pre-match data (requires memory reader), then the actual change points can be calculated.
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I got a question, after a 100games the mmr stats still say that i dont have enough data at my EU account, but the NA, KR and SEA they all where fine withing 10games. How can this be?
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On January 29 2014 08:26 Dthehunter wrote:
I got a question, after a 100games the mmr stats still say that i dont have enough data at my EU account, but the NA, KR and SEA they all where fine withing 10games. How can this be?
Read more from here, but remember that Blizzard changed league offsets on last Friday (the old post talks about old offsets): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19316583
100 games is a lot, but I guess you could have have been e.g. very stable regarding your MMR and been in a range where most opponents are capped (such as little above league threshold).
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http://imgur.com/kkDkilZ
The two loses at the spikes were both against GM players. Are these spikes because of the changes to the ladder or is there something else going wrong?
I am wondering because from this I can't really tell if I'm mid masters and hitting GM players just because those players MMR fell really low or if I'm actually getting towards GM myself and I would love to know if I'm improving at the moment
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On January 31 2014 04:57 Yello wrote:http://imgur.com/kkDkilZThe two loses at the spikes were both against GM players. Are these spikes because of the changes to the ladder or is there something else going wrong? I am wondering because from this I can't really tell if I'm mid masters and hitting GM players just because those players MMR fell really low or if I'm actually getting towards GM myself and I would love to know if I'm improving at the moment
The spikes are due league offset changes that Blizzard made last Friday. The new master-gm offset is near 73 (old was ~400). But as most of the other offsets are not yet known (also new version of the tool, which will archive old matches, is not yet done), I will not publish offset changes yet. It may still take couple weeks until the other offsets can be solved (hopefully earlier, but time will tell).
In the meantime the relative results from matches against players from your own league are comparable. And now as you know the new master-gm offset, you can calculate results from matches against GMs (deduct 327 from your own value given by the tool and add 327 to their value).
Edit: strikeouted incorrect data. Of course opponent' value is correct without adding anything.
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I have an issue, that I did not see addressed in the OP. I have ran MMR tool 3 times, and each time it causes my computer to crash.
I currently run windows 8.1 with sli-connected 770 video cards. I built this PC myself and have yet to have any issues. My drivers are all up to date, and this is my first experience of a program that crashes my computer.
1. Would running as an administrator help?
2. Has anyone else encountered this problem?
My brother has an identical setup, Windows 8.1 and sli 770's, current drivers, etc, but his program works fine.
Any suggestions are appreciated and apologies if this has already been addressed.
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On January 31 2014 05:38 Ctone23 wrote:
I have an issue, that I did not see addressed in the OP. I have ran MMR tool 3 times, and each time it causes my computer to crash.
I currently run windows 8.1 with sli-connected 770 video cards. I built this PC myself and have yet to have any issues. My drivers are all up to date, and this is my first experience of a program that crashes my computer.
1. Would running as an administrator help?
2. Has anyone else encountered this problem?
My brother has an identical setup, Windows 8.1 and sli 770's, current drivers, etc, but his program works fine.
Any suggestions are appreciated and apologies if this has already been addressed.
Does SC2Gears crash your computer without the MMR plugin?
If so, you're better off asking in the SC2Gears thread.
If not, do you have the memory scanner enabled in the options?
Do you have SC2Gears installed in a system directory? eg. Program Files, or something similar.
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On January 31 2014 05:41 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2014 05:38 Ctone23 wrote:
I have an issue, that I did not see addressed in the OP. I have ran MMR tool 3 times, and each time it causes my computer to crash.
I currently run windows 8.1 with sli-connected 770 video cards. I built this PC myself and have yet to have any issues. My drivers are all up to date, and this is my first experience of a program that crashes my computer.
1. Would running as an administrator help?
2. Has anyone else encountered this problem?
My brother has an identical setup, Windows 8.1 and sli 770's, current drivers, etc, but his program works fine.
Any suggestions are appreciated and apologies if this has already been addressed. Does SC2Gears crash your computer without the MMR plugin? If so, you're better off asking in the SC2Gears thread. If not, do you have the memory scanner enabled in the options? Do you have SC2Gears installed in a system directory? eg. Program Files, or something similar.
I will need to check the memory scanner, does that need to be enabled? I downloaded SC2Gears for the MMR plugin, so I have not run it without the plugin.
My computer crashes sometimes mid-SC2-game, so I have quit using it with the fear my pc may crash during a won game.
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On January 31 2014 05:13 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2014 04:57 Yello wrote:http://imgur.com/kkDkilZThe two loses at the spikes were both against GM players. Are these spikes because of the changes to the ladder or is there something else going wrong? I am wondering because from this I can't really tell if I'm mid masters and hitting GM players just because those players MMR fell really low or if I'm actually getting towards GM myself and I would love to know if I'm improving at the moment The spikes are due league offset changes that Blizzard made last Friday. The new master-gm offset is near 73 (old was ~400). But as most of the other offsets are not yet known (also new version of the tool, which will archive old matches, is not yet done), I will not publish offset changes yet. It may still take couple weeks until the other offsets can be solved (hopefully earlier, but time will tell). In the meantime the relative results from matches against players from your own league are comparable. And now as you know the new master-gm offset, you can calculate results from matches against GMs (deduct 327 from your own value given by the tool and add 327 to their value).
okay, thank you.
And I had hoped that I was actually getting real good here :D
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On January 31 2014 05:57 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2014 05:41 InfCereal wrote:On January 31 2014 05:38 Ctone23 wrote:
I have an issue, that I did not see addressed in the OP. I have ran MMR tool 3 times, and each time it causes my computer to crash. Or what happens?
I currently run windows 8.1 with sli-connected 770 video cards. I built this PC myself and have yet to have any issues. My drivers are all up to date, and this is my first experience of a program that crashes my computer.
1. Would running as an administrator help?
2. Has anyone else encountered this problem?
My brother has an identical setup, Windows 8.1 and sli 770's, current drivers, etc, but his program works fine.
Any suggestions are appreciated and apologies if this has already been addressed. Does SC2Gears crash your computer without the MMR plugin? If so, you're better off asking in the SC2Gears thread. If not, do you have the memory scanner enabled in the options? Do you have SC2Gears installed in a system directory? eg. Program Files, or something similar. I will need to check the memory scanner, does that need to be enabled? I downloaded SC2Gears for the MMR plugin, so I have not run it without the plugin. My computer crashes sometimes mid-SC2-game, so I have quit using it with the fear my pc may crash during a won game.
With 'crashing' do you mean you get a blue screen or does the computer boot? Or what happens? And when does it crash (e.g. memory reader if enabled is only launched in the end of the loading screen of each mach / replay. It only fetches player names & IDs that takes less than second and is then shut down)?
What InfCereal was trying to determine was that have you enabled the memory reader (by default it is not enabled)? As Java programs sc2gears nor MMR tool should not crash your computer unless you have some other problems (like something wrong e.g. with your Java installation. E.g. do you the latest JRE (Java)?). But the memory reader is a separate executable. If you have had it disabled, then we know at least that the memory reader was not the reason.
And you will potentially need to use sc2gears in admin mode (e.g. if you have put in location where there are limited user rights).
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Is it possible that the MMR sgraph is kind of unstable at the moment due to the league shifts? I'm getting considerably better (atleast I like to think so), and MMRstats tells me I'm a well 150MMR into Master League, but I've not met many master players just yet.
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On January 31 2014 08:52 Thalandros wrote:
Is it possible that the MMR sgraph is kind of unstable at the moment due to the league shifts? I'm getting considerably better (atleast I like to think so), and MMRstats tells me I'm a well 150MMR into Master League, but I've not met many master players just yet.
Like it says in the original post and here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20669426
On January 25 2014 14:51 MMR-Stats wrote:
2014-01-25: Blizzard made ladder changes --> MMR calculations values and league borders may be incorrect until new league offsets are calculated
Only values that are from opponents from your own league are directly comparable between themselves.
Edit: Here is an example picture (old offsets at left, new work in progress offsets at right): http://imgur.com/cZ55StJ
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On January 31 2014 07:54 korona wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2014 05:57 Ctone23 wrote:On January 31 2014 05:41 InfCereal wrote:On January 31 2014 05:38 Ctone23 wrote:
I have an issue, that I did not see addressed in the OP. I have ran MMR tool 3 times, and each time it causes my computer to crash. Or what happens?
I currently run windows 8.1 with sli-connected 770 video cards. I built this PC myself and have yet to have any issues. My drivers are all up to date, and this is my first experience of a program that crashes my computer.
1. Would running as an administrator help?
2. Has anyone else encountered this problem?
My brother has an identical setup, Windows 8.1 and sli 770's, current drivers, etc, but his program works fine.
Any suggestions are appreciated and apologies if this has already been addressed. Does SC2Gears crash your computer without the MMR plugin? If so, you're better off asking in the SC2Gears thread. If not, do you have the memory scanner enabled in the options? Do you have SC2Gears installed in a system directory? eg. Program Files, or something similar. I will need to check the memory scanner, does that need to be enabled? I downloaded SC2Gears for the MMR plugin, so I have not run it without the plugin. My computer crashes sometimes mid-SC2-game, so I have quit using it with the fear my pc may crash during a won game. With 'crashing' do you mean you get a blue screen or does the computer boot? Or what happens? And when does it crash (e.g. memory reader if enabled is only launched in the end of the loading screen of each mach / replay. It only fetches player names & IDs that takes less than second and is then shut down)? What InfCereal was trying to determine was that have you enabled the memory reader (by default it is not enabled)? As Java programs sc2gears nor MMR tool should crash your computer unless you have some other problems (like something wrong e.g. with your Java installation. E.g. do you the latest JRE (Java)?). But the memory reader is a separate executable. If you have had it disabled, then we know at least that the memory reader was not the reason. And you will potentially need to use sc2gears in admin mode (e.g. if you have put in location where there are limited user rights).
Ah, the Java update fixed it. Thank you sir.
And yes, I would get the BSOD before.
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mmr values are crazy this days T_T
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WXCn7j4.png)
a lot of not so high players (1750 mmr) are 2200+ on the graph
i was 1700 (but really im ~1900-2K), then 2 games and im 2200 from 1700 :D
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On February 02 2014 01:53 Val_ wrote:mmr values are crazy this days T_T + Show Spoiler +a lot of not so high players (1750 mmr) are 2200+ on the graph i was 1700 (but really im ~1900-2K), then 2 games and im 2200 from 1700 :D
Yes. Blizzard changed league offsets last week's Friday (2013-01-24). Example picture of same data you presented (please note that old offsets are to the left and new offsets are to the right):
http://imgur.com/MtdDKGQ
As you can see if the new offsets would be applied right now, the pre-change calculation results would 'break'. With old offsets every game you play against master players give you comparable results with each others, also games against gm:s give comparable results with each others. But if results from master opponents are compared to results from gm opponents, the gm results will cause an upward spike.
Two of the new offsets are known quite well: diamond-master offset and master-gm offset. From others there are only few calculation results, which may not be close enough. Based on graphs & guesses I think I have found quite close offset values for other leagues, but few differ from early calculation results ---> I may have incorrect guesses. More data is needed to verify. Thankfully only diamond-master and master-gm offsets differ considerably from the old values (with old values there are visible spikes for players who play against these league players). For lower leagues the changes are smaller, so the possible spikes are also considerably smaller.
Also WoL offsets changed for the first time since HotS launch (for HotS offsets this was second change). As there is not enough data, I guessed new ones totally based graphs. Some may be considerably incorrect, but result quite ok graphs. Also Blizzard has likely been 'creative' regarding WoL offsets. As in the past league thresholds (except gm) have been based on the offsets. Now it seems Blizzard has independently set thresholds for some other WoL leagues too. For example they have increased WoL diamond-master offset to ~500 (rough number) but seem to have set the actual master threshold to be some 300 lower.
Before new offsets can be published:
1) New version of the MMR tool needs to prepared & tested that archives all pre-change matches. I don't have time today, I hope there is time tomorrow, but not necessarily to finish & test the changes.
2) Exact offset change times needs to be solved for each server (I think I have quite close times already, but this will still take some research). It would have been so much easier if Blizzard would have changed the offsets already with v.2.1 (then I could have used the version number as barrier), but now they did the changes 3 to 4 days later (different times for each server).
3) More data is needed to verify some lower league offsets. Also new GM thresholds have to be solved.
It may still take a week or more (one can always hope it happens faster, but time will tell).
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thank you for your work !
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New version of the tool & new offsets were published. Do not mark old games 'bad' based on the new offsets!!!
Optionally set incorrect values for matches played before Friday 2014-01-24 'bad'
The next version of the MMR tool will archive all matches that were played before Friday 2014-01-24.
If you have considerably spikes in your earlier graph (before 2014-01-24) they may have been caused by data errors or some other problems. If those values are not set 'bad', then the potential spikes will be shown in the archive graphs too. But you can manually set those matches bad before the next version of the MMR tool is published.
Also keep the MMR decay in mind. If you have been inactive for two weeks or more sometime in the past, it will be reflected as a considerable drop in the graph (the maximum decay is ~310), but the subsequent values are consistent. So do not set values that are due MMR decay bad. Please learn more about the MMR decay from: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429734
Here are some instructions:
Optional) Take a backup copy of 'games_i.data' that is located [PATH_TO]\Sc2gears\User content\Plugin file cache\mmr.plugin.MMRPlugin\ If something goes wrong you can restore the old data.
1) Enable color coding of the match nodes (shows color codes both 'good games' and 'estimate games'): 'Config' > 'Data' > 'Mark assumptions / bad games'. Remember to save the changes.
2) Make sure you have 'mov. avg.' and 'autocorrect' disabled from the lower toolbar. Also make sure you have 'dots' enabled.
3) Check which match was the last match played before 2014-01-24. You can hover you mouse pointer over the match dots to see the timestamps. Do not do any changes to games played after that! Also remember that 'good games' affect the estimate values in following manner:
For example if uppercase X, Y, Z are 'good games', then the affected estimate games are shown in lowercase x, y & z (Note that 'Z' is the last 'good game' you have played. The '|' represents the offset change that happened late 2014-01-24. Please note that the first post-offset-change 'good game' will affect pre-change estimate matches too):
xxxxxxXyyyyyyYzzz|zzzZzzz
4) Now go through the 'good games' played before 2013-01-24. If some of those 'good games' causes considerably spikes regarding the results, it potentially is incorrect value (Analyze log may suggest some of the bad values). But make sure you don't have too many missing games close to it (use e.g. 'missing games' marker filter). When you have identified such matches remember their numbers & opponent names.
5) If you notice that some of your own unranked matches have been recorded too then remember their numbers & prepare to remove them (Note that the 'Opp unranked? marker filter shows games where _opponent_ was likely unranked. Do not remove those)
6) Set the identified matches 'bad' one by one & check that the graph is ok before setting the next one 'bad'. Please note that you should only set the 'good games' that seem incorrect 'bad'. To set a game 'bad' follow following instructions: 'Config' > 'Data' > 'Refresh' > Choose match from the list > 'mark as bad game'. To remove potential your own unranked matches use same instructions, but instead of 'mark as bad game' use 'delete game' (please note that if you delete gemes, the subsequent match numbers change).
Edit: added warning about MMR decay
Edit 2: MMR tool 10.1 and new offsets were published.
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cant u just delete all the games u have up to this point? and start new?
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Hey Korona. Thanks for all your hard work. You are a gift to the community.
I just got promoted to Gold and wanted to show you my chart as I was an estimated 60 points away from the gold line. I will edit this again after I play a few more good games to see if it balances out.
http://imgur.com/FSSiAhA
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On February 06 2014 08:04 Dexlor wrote:Hey Korona. Thanks for all your hard work. You are a gift to the community. I just got promoted to Gold and wanted to show you my chart as I was an estimated 60 points away from the gold line. I will edit this again after I play a few more good games to see if it balances out. http://imgur.com/FSSiAhA
No need to give update regarding it before new offsets have been updated. The current results are more or less inaccurate until the new values have been published (but if the opponents were from the same league the current results are comparable with each others).
Edit: but will look your account too, when I next time fine-tune new offsets.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xuqXP61.jpg)
