EPTI also don't think he has a legit chance at winning, whereas I think Stephano does. Although it'll be interesting to see if he can play as well when opponents have time to prepare specifically for him, unlike other tourneys where there's no time to prepare at all and it's more about how you play in general, which are the only tourneys he's been in so far.
Stephano invited to Code S - Page 22
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
I also don't think he has a legit chance at winning, whereas I think Stephano does. Although it'll be interesting to see if he can play as well when opponents have time to prepare specifically for him, unlike other tourneys where there's no time to prepare at all and it's more about how you play in general, which are the only tourneys he's been in so far. | ||
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mongmong
Korea (South)1389 Posts
with that many zerg snipers in code S? I dont think so. I would put more faith in Leenock | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On April 27 2012 20:01 DystopiaX wrote: I also don't think he has a legit chance at winning, whereas I think Stephano does. Although it'll be interesting to see if he can play as well when opponents have time to prepare specifically for him, unlike other tourneys where there's no time to prepare at all and it's more about how you play in general, which are the only tourneys he's been in so far. There's far too many Terran's in Code S who thoroughly outclass Stephano in TvZ for him to win. Not to mention guys like MC and Nestea who also has winning records vs him. | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
No. Stop downplaying Nanis achievements. He had recent wins vs Leenock, DRG and Nestea among others. His PvZ is only weak now because he did not have to practise it for GSL. Even if he got a bit lucky, some other Koreans did as well in their runs. So leave it be. | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On April 27 2012 20:55 00Visor wrote: No. Stop downplaying Nanis achievements. He had recent wins vs Leenock, DRG and Nestea among others. His PvZ is only weak now because he did not have to practise it for GSL. Even if he got a bit lucky, some other Koreans did as well in their runs. So leave it be. It's not that he dodged Zergs, it's more than he played Terran's who are historically bad vs Protoss. If he played Jjakji/Taeja/MKP instead of Ryung/Virus it would mean a lot more. People get so stupidly defensive about this. He hasn't played anyone good outside of PvP yet, just accept it. Way, way, way worse players than Naniwa have made the Round of 8 in the GSL, it's just not that hard if you get a solid draw and a bit of luck. Just look at Inca, he's terrible and made the final. Or Anypro or Hongun. Huk's run to Round of 8 was equally as laughable, beating Killer in PvP twice (the worst PvP in Korea) and Nada in PvT (again another player who is bad vs Protoss). When a foreigner is involved people are so biased they can't accept that bracket luck exists. Not that foreigners are the only recipients. Nestea won a GSL by dodging every Terran in Code S except the woeful Ensnare and Jjakji had some pretty insane bracket luck to win his Code S too until the final where he played well. | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
On April 27 2012 21:04 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: It's not that he dodged Zergs, it's more than he played Terran's who are historically bad vs Protoss. If he played Jjakji/Taeja/MKP instead of Ryung/Virus it would mean a lot more. People get so stupidly defensive about this. He hasn't played anyone good outside of PvP yet, just accept it. Way, way, way worse players than Naniwa have made the Round of 8 in the GSL, it's just not that hard if you get a solid draw and a bit of luck. Just look at Inca, he's terrible and made the final. Or Anypro or Hongun. Huk's run to Round of 8 was equally as laughable, beating Killer in PvP twice (the worst PvP in Korea) and Nada in PvT (again another player who is bad vs Protoss). When a foreigner is involved people are so biased they can't accept that bracket luck exists. Not that foreigners are the only recipients. Nestea won a GSL by dodging every Terran in Code S except the woeful Ensnare and Jjakji had some pretty insane bracket luck to win his Code S too until the final where he played well. Virus has TvP as best matchup. I agree Nani had an rather easy route. But as you said, a lot of other players had as well. So do we have to be so negative? GSL has always been about a lot of luck. Ro8 doesnt mean at all that you are a top8 player. Lets just acknowledge Nani made it there while everyone was expecting him to continue his bad GSL record. | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On April 27 2012 21:14 00Visor wrote: Virus has TvP as best matchup. I agree Nani had an rather easy route. But as you said, a lot of other players had as well. So do we have to be so negative? GSL has always been about a lot of luck. Ro8 doesnt mean at all that you are a top8 player. Lets just acknowledge Nani made it there while everyone was expecting him to continue his bad GSL record. That's probably a fair assessment. | ||
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b0rt_
Norway931 Posts
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Leetley
1796 Posts
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khellian
Korea (South)922 Posts
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M7Jagger
Sweden237 Posts
Oh please, I don't care who you have to play, saying things like "bla bla he only had to play p and t, his opponents weren't the best, his opponents weren't at top shape" are just bad excuses. Like I said, I don't care who you have to play against, Code S is the hardest competition there is, and there are no easy matches, regardless of what MU's there are or what players who have to play, Code S is super hard and you don't get to Ro8 in Code S, you simply cannot rely on something like that and get to Ro8, maybe wake a map, maaaybe even a whole series, but not Ro8. But some just won't accept the fact that Naniwa is the best foreigner right now. Even if he would win the whole thing some idiots would still scream "STEPHANO, HUK", but the stats says it all, nani is in Ro8 in Code S and neither HuK or Stephano is. | ||
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M7Jagger
Sweden237 Posts
On April 27 2012 21:04 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: It's not that he dodged Zergs, it's more than he played Terran's who are historically bad vs Protoss. If he played Jjakji/Taeja/MKP instead of Ryung/Virus it would mean a lot more. People get so stupidly defensive about this. He hasn't played anyone good outside of PvP yet, just accept it. Way, way, way worse players than Naniwa have made the Round of 8 in the GSL, it's just not that hard if you get a solid draw and a bit of luck. Just look at Inca, he's terrible and made the final. Or Anypro or Hongun. Huk's run to Round of 8 was equally as laughable, beating Killer in PvP twice (the worst PvP in Korea) and Nada in PvT (again another player who is bad vs Protoss). When a foreigner is involved people are so biased they can't accept that bracket luck exists. Not that foreigners are the only recipients. Nestea won a GSL by dodging every Terran in Code S except the woeful Ensnare and Jjakji had some pretty insane bracket luck to win his Code S too until the final where he played well. Ofc luck exists, but you don't make it to Ro8 in Code S with luck only. Just because HuK gets to play against players where their MU vs protoss isn't the best, doesn't mean that their MU vs protoss is bad. There are no easy matches in Code S, there only great players, end of story. | ||
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latan
740 Posts
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Emix_Squall
France705 Posts
On April 28 2012 00:14 M7Jagger wrote: Oh please, I don't care who you have to play, saying things like "bla bla he only had to play p and t, his opponents weren't the best, his opponents weren't at top shape" are just bad excuses. Like I said, I don't care who you have to play against, Code S is the hardest competition there is, and there are no easy matches, regardless of what MU's there are or what players who have to play, Code S is super hard and you don't get to Ro8 in Code S, you simply cannot rely on something like that and get to Ro8, maybe wake a map, maaaybe even a whole series, but not Ro8. But some just won't accept the fact that Naniwa is the best foreigner right now. Even if he would win the whole thing some idiots would still scream "STEPHANO, HUK", but the stats says it all, nani is in Ro8 in Code S and neither HuK or Stephano is. You just don't watch code S to say that. Or you watch it with your eyes closed maybe I don't see how it could be otherwise. Anyone who watched enough code S game will tell you advancing in code S implicates a BIG amount of luck. Of course we're talking about luck for some players who are all some of the bests in the world but it doesn't mean they can't get lucky like everyone at some point. Saying that playing any MU or against any player in code S is difficult for everyone, is just retarded ... you sir must not watch the same competition we all do. The players all got their strengths and weaknesses, therefore they are lucky when all the MU they play are of their strongest MU. It's not more complicated than that .... a 5 year old would understand ... You must be a big Naniwa fan-boy to be that much blind folded ... Now about who is the best foreigner in the world right now .... everyone has their favourite players but to me the only reliable information is what pro gamers themselves say. Especially those from Korea, and recently the feedback that were heard are mainly that Stephano is the one Korean players "fear" the most ... Most of them agree on that. Naniwa is still a beast, Huk is still very good too, and Thorzain is technically the one of them with the highest ELO. You can make a fanboy interpretation of things or base yourself on reliable informations like feedbacks from pro gamers or ELO rankings (even though some would argue Thorzain's victory at DreamHack was nothing since they were so few Korean players attending...). Personally I tend to believe those who know this game best, not a fanboy ... Edit: love your little "end of story" ending ... like anyone's gonna stop posting on that subject because of that ... | ||
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Satoros
38 Posts
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latan
740 Posts
If you think about it, that line of reasoning (he got lucky with his opponents) is so retarded, it's like saying "oh yeah?!, well, he's #1 ONLY because everyone else is worse than him!!". think about it. | ||
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Emix_Squall
France705 Posts
On April 28 2012 00:33 latan wrote: his point was that, whetever... he still is in code S. if he got the luck to get players worse than him then that means he is better than those (Code S) players anyway and so he deserves his place. If you think about it, that line of reasoning (he got lucky with his opponents) is so retarded, it's like saying "oh yeah?!, well, he's #1 ONLY because everyone else is worse than him!!". think about it. Do you know what a MU is ? Do you know every SC2 player plays 3 of them? Now do you know that all SC2 players aren't equally good at the 3 of them? Now read yourself again and think .... I don't want to spoil you ... | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
On April 27 2012 21:04 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: It's not that he dodged Zergs, it's more than he played Terran's who are historically bad vs Protoss. If he played Jjakji/Taeja/MKP instead of Ryung/Virus it would mean a lot more. People get so stupidly defensive about this. He hasn't played anyone good outside of PvP yet, just accept it. Way, way, way worse players than Naniwa have made the Round of 8 in the GSL, it's just not that hard if you get a solid draw and a bit of luck. Just look at Inca, he's terrible and made the final. Or Anypro or Hongun. Huk's run to Round of 8 was equally as laughable, beating Killer in PvP twice (the worst PvP in Korea) and Nada in PvT (again another player who is bad vs Protoss). When a foreigner is involved people are so biased they can't accept that bracket luck exists. Not that foreigners are the only recipients. Nestea won a GSL by dodging every Terran in Code S except the woeful Ensnare and Jjakji had some pretty insane bracket luck to win his Code S too until the final where he played well. Lol Jjakji had bracket luck ? Each round he was the underdog and each round he never ceased to impress. Jjakji has oustanding TvP and TvZ and he went through a very hard bracket, (Puzzle and Oz are PvT masters and Leenock is a ZvT master) | ||
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FlyingBanana
Australia43 Posts
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