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On April 12 2012 01:25 rift wrote:
I don't want "cool" stuff, I want a well-designed esport. Blizzard, please stop making units that are explicitly role-specific.
Swallow your pride and use the assistance of Kespa/progamers as was planned. IP rights dispute is over.
no ... from progamers YES but keep kespa out of it
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We don't want recall on the nexus, please! Oh and what happens if one viper abducts a second viper and the third viper abducts the second viper and so on?
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On April 12 2012 18:14 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 17:29 SmileZerg wrote:On April 12 2012 17:24 Disastorm wrote:
Does anyone understand what new ability they are talking about with the Viper, we already knew they had an aoe cloud that made units in it get a range of 1...
And WOOt Viper gets Consume, is that what they meant by new ability?! It sounds like the Blinding Cloud has been changed. Previously it created a "smog tile" that reduced units under it to range 1 but they could micro out. Now it sounds like it hits units in an AoE and they stay blinded (range 1) regardless of where they move for an unknown duration, HOWEVER only bio is affected now. This makes the ability stronger against Terran M&M and zerg roach/hydra armies, but it can no longer be used versus Protoss balls, siege tank lines, mech or bunkered units. This is my understanding anyways. If this is true that basically means we get Infestor #2, with a difference that this one doesnt kill units and works only on bio. Yes I would definitely prefer this ability over fungal when im in the mood for trolling my opponent. First I drain his one mineral then when his marine comes I pull him under me and make him blind then poo creep on him. Then I plant Mushrooms in his main.
Can't wait to try this ;-) But why do you assume he has only 1 marine?
But seriously, I agree that the new aoe spell seems to overlap a little too much with infestor/fungal. Marines get owned by infestor with ling/bling already, so no need to blind them. And in roach/hydra battles the infestor already seems enough to make these fights less linear and predictable. With blinding added in, the spellcasting could become redundant and confusing.
As a zerg, I still find abduct potentially useful, but silly. Looking forward to the worms though.
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On April 12 2012 18:45 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 18:37 SmileZerg wrote:On April 12 2012 17:32 Disastorm wrote:On April 12 2012 17:29 SmileZerg wrote:On April 12 2012 17:24 Disastorm wrote:
Does anyone understand what new ability they are talking about with the Viper, we already knew they had an aoe cloud that made units in it get a range of 1...
And WOOt Viper gets Consume, is that what they meant by new ability?! It sounds like the Blinding Cloud has been changed. Previously it created a "smog tile" that reduced units under it to range 1 but they could micro out. Now it sounds like it hits units in an AoE and they stay blinded (range 1) regardless of where they move for an unknown duration, HOWEVER only bio is affected now. This makes the ability stronger against Terran M&M and zerg roach/hydra armies, but it can no longer be used versus Protoss balls, siege tank lines, mech or bunkered units. This is my understanding anyways. Ah I understand now. Interesting, I think it sounds really good against marines now, but wont affect tanks so I'm not sure which is better. Well Abduct is still available to deal with tanks. I think it's a good change, because previously the blinding cloud was always better against tanks and there was no need for abduct except versus colossi. I did like the micro factor of the opponent being able to move out of the cloud though... we'll see how it develops. What is there to develop? Why would you ever choose blinding units over simply killing them with fungal? EDIT: Offcourse its a whole different story if the cloud actually stays on the ground and is much more interesting and meaningfull that way.
For one thing the Viper is a flying unit, there're going to be some battles where it'll be easier to engage after blinding his marines than trying to barge in with infestors to get fungals off.
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On April 12 2012 18:52 archonOOid wrote:
We don't want recall on the nexus, please! Oh and what happens if one viper abducts a second viper and the third viper abducts the second viper and so on?
Viperslinky! And can people please stop whining about the recall on the nexus before they get a chance to playtest it? It honestly sounds like the most interesting change to the Protoss race in the expansion so far. Even as a zerg player I'm looking forward to it.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
I love Nexus Mass Recall. They even can make Colossus slower to balance this ability.
Also i love Replicant removal.
Nice changes averall. Can't wait for release.
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Yeah, I don't get all the hate for Mass Recall on Nexus as well.
It's one of the most underrated abilities in the game (partly because it's so massively outshined by Vortex), and I really feel like moving it to the nexus (and more importantly, down the tech tree) will give Toss a lot more options in the midgame. Why do toss players feel like Recall on nexus is a bad thing?
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On April 12 2012 18:52 FrogOfWar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 18:14 NukeD wrote:On April 12 2012 17:29 SmileZerg wrote:On April 12 2012 17:24 Disastorm wrote:
Does anyone understand what new ability they are talking about with the Viper, we already knew they had an aoe cloud that made units in it get a range of 1...
And WOOt Viper gets Consume, is that what they meant by new ability?! It sounds like the Blinding Cloud has been changed. Previously it created a "smog tile" that reduced units under it to range 1 but they could micro out. Now it sounds like it hits units in an AoE and they stay blinded (range 1) regardless of where they move for an unknown duration, HOWEVER only bio is affected now. This makes the ability stronger against Terran M&M and zerg roach/hydra armies, but it can no longer be used versus Protoss balls, siege tank lines, mech or bunkered units. This is my understanding anyways. If this is true that basically means we get Infestor #2, with a difference that this one doesnt kill units and works only on bio. Yes I would definitely prefer this ability over fungal when im in the mood for trolling my opponent. First I drain his one mineral then when his marine comes I pull him under me and make him blind then poo creep on him. Then I plant Mushrooms in his main. Can't wait to try this ;-) But why do you assume he has only 1 marine? But seriously, I agree that the new aoe spell seems to overlap a little too much with infestor/fungal. Marines get owned by infestor with ling/bling already, so no need to blind them. And in roach/hydra battles the infestor already seems enough to make these fights less linear and predictable. With blinding added in, the spellcasting could become redundant and confusing. As a zerg, I still find abduct potentially useful, but silly. Looking forward to the worms though.
As I read between the lines they will rework fungal to make sure they dont overlap.
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On April 12 2012 18:58 iKill wrote:
Yeah, I don't get all the hate for Mass Recall on Nexus as well.
It's one of the most underrated abilities in the game (partly because it's so massively outshined by Vortex), and I really feel like moving it to the nexus (and more importantly, down the tech tree) will give Toss a lot more options in the midgame. Why do toss players feel like Recall on nexus is a bad thing?
I guess it is because having the ability to reposition your army against any form of harass will be so OP that it will have to call for a nerf of the warp gate units to be balanced.
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Oh no, I just noticed this now. Now I've gotta change my sig... I was so looking foreward to the Replicant->Shredder + Sentry drop... oh well
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As expected, HoTS was vastly changed from Blizzcon and they are moving in the right direction. There is still a long way to go though, many more changes have to be made.
I still dont get the deal with the burrowed broodlords, lurkers would be much much better.
And why replace an iconic and unique unit like the carrier with a generic unit that have the exact same function? Fix the carrier and it will be all good.
About the nexus recall, I have watched less then 5 warcraft 3 games and they went something like this: Battle commences, some hero almost dies, town portal out, repeat 15 times durring a 1 and a half hour game. It was horrible. The ability to just ditch a battle at any point if it doesnt go your way is likely the worst feature one could think of and on top of that being able to shut down horrasment at the blink of an eye. The only way I see it implemented is with a global cooldown on all nexi with a 5+ minute cooldown.
Anyways enough whine, I still have high hopes for HoTS and I'm sure they will get it right in the end. It's just a matter of how many layers of bullshit they will have to carve through first.
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i like the idea of blinding in ZvZ. this would make the ling bling ultralisk play with some infestors and some vipers much stronger than now. in WoL roach hydra infestor ist just >>>>>> ling bling ultra infestor. ultracharge + blinding could open up a new techpath in ZvZ.
the abduct ability MAY be bullshit. its like NP and could be patched to death. NP with range 9 was too strong, NP with range 7 is unusable. same thing could happen to abduct. if the range is too far you are able to catch all colossi, if its too close no one will use it. BUT since vipers are air units no colossi oder zealots will attack them, so even with closer range abduct might be usable.
btw i hope infestor gets new ability in HOTS in change with NP + new abilities for the overseer could actually mean zerg is getting a lot more viable strategies (instead of going roach ling infestor every MU  ).
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If nexus does get recall ability, I want to see funday monday: proxy nexus!!!
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if the zerg blinding thing is going to be a direct blind and no cloud anymore, i seriously start on hating blizzard for adding another micro preventing spell, really.
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On April 12 2012 18:52 FrogOfWar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 18:14 NukeD wrote:On April 12 2012 17:29 SmileZerg wrote:On April 12 2012 17:24 Disastorm wrote:
Does anyone understand what new ability they are talking about with the Viper, we already knew they had an aoe cloud that made units in it get a range of 1...
And WOOt Viper gets Consume, is that what they meant by new ability?! It sounds like the Blinding Cloud has been changed. Previously it created a "smog tile" that reduced units under it to range 1 but they could micro out. Now it sounds like it hits units in an AoE and they stay blinded (range 1) regardless of where they move for an unknown duration, HOWEVER only bio is affected now. This makes the ability stronger against Terran M&M and zerg roach/hydra armies, but it can no longer be used versus Protoss balls, siege tank lines, mech or bunkered units. This is my understanding anyways. If this is true that basically means we get Infestor #2, with a difference that this one doesnt kill units and works only on bio. Yes I would definitely prefer this ability over fungal when im in the mood for trolling my opponent. First I drain his one mineral then when his marine comes I pull him under me and make him blind then poo creep on him. Then I plant Mushrooms in his main. Can't wait to try this ;-) But why do you assume he has only 1 marine?
With new battle helion who needs marines?
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AA spider mine could replace the seeker missile, that would be great. I honestly think that was the design of HSM in the first place by the looks of it.
Viper's blind seems like a dark swarm that cannot be micro'd out of, they should just bring back DS and be done with it.
Overseer's abilities should be more powerful but put him at harms way, to increase the risk vs. reward.
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On April 12 2012 18:45 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 18:37 SmileZerg wrote:On April 12 2012 17:32 Disastorm wrote:On April 12 2012 17:29 SmileZerg wrote:On April 12 2012 17:24 Disastorm wrote:
Does anyone understand what new ability they are talking about with the Viper, we already knew they had an aoe cloud that made units in it get a range of 1...
And WOOt Viper gets Consume, is that what they meant by new ability?! It sounds like the Blinding Cloud has been changed. Previously it created a "smog tile" that reduced units under it to range 1 but they could micro out. Now it sounds like it hits units in an AoE and they stay blinded (range 1) regardless of where they move for an unknown duration, HOWEVER only bio is affected now. This makes the ability stronger against Terran M&M and zerg roach/hydra armies, but it can no longer be used versus Protoss balls, siege tank lines, mech or bunkered units. This is my understanding anyways. Ah I understand now. Interesting, I think it sounds really good against marines now, but wont affect tanks so I'm not sure which is better. Well Abduct is still available to deal with tanks. I think it's a good change, because previously the blinding cloud was always better against tanks and there was no need for abduct except versus colossi. I did like the micro factor of the opponent being able to move out of the cloud though... we'll see how it develops. What is there to develop? Why would you ever choose blinding units over simply killing them with fungal? EDIT: Offcourse its a whole different story if the cloud actually stays on the ground and is much more interesting and meaningfull that way.
I like the Blinding Cloud ability a lot, assuming that it is an actual cloud that temporarily stays on the ground like Disruption Web or Dark Swarm. Depending on how long the cloud lasts on the ground (a value that is easily tweakable in future patches), there is even a lot of zoning potential from this spell.
For example, a Zerg player could preemptively lay down several Blinding Clouds into a choke before a Terran army moves through it, thus making it extremely cost-inefficient for the Terran to engage or move through that clouded choke. A Zerg player could thus delay a Terran push or zone it into a position that is disadvantageous for the Terran. Pairing the Blinding Cloud with Lings and Swarm Hosts or possibly even Roaches can do wonders against Terran balls.
Also, it is very possible that Fungal could be changed in HotS, even though Blizzard hasn't necessarily said anything about it. Keep in mind that fungal used to last longer while still doing the same amount of damage, thus being more of a stun spell instead of being a DPS, splash-damage spell. The change to a shorter-duration, high-DPS spell seemed to be more of a dirty fix to buff Zerg splash damage considering that Banelings are a pure trade unit and Ultras are bad. With Vipers and Swarm Hosts being strong mid-game units that may scale well into the late game, I wouldn't be surprised to see Fungal being changed to be more of a stun/slow spell instead of an AoE damage spell.
But I'm just speculating. We all are speculating. Even Blizzard is speculating and experimenting with a ton of things, and a lot of the wording in this update is too vague to mean anything specific.
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in b4 peops start screaming ds is too bw-esc
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On April 12 2012 02:05 Split. wrote:
Wow HotS is going to turn the multiplayer upside down. Blizzard should launch the beta already, as they themselves can barely foresee the full impact of the changes they're making
Lol, you want them to launch the beta while still cutting/adding units? That would cause serious rage in the community. Besides, that's not what beta testing is for anyways.
Anyways the tempest seems stupid at this point and the role they are giving it feels like the role the carrier is supposed to have. Also, I don't think they have addressed mass muta very well for PvZ. I think they should cut the Tempest.
I'm not sure what the idea behind a super long range missile launcher is. This is the first time they've announced a prospective unit that I completely hate. I don't get what people have against tank positioning in TvT. It's fun to watch and requires extreme skill. It doesn't really cause endless standoffs. One player always finds a hole and sets the game on a course to a conclusion. It's only bad players that get stuck in a stalemate.
I wish they would have explained better why the shredder was cut. Is it because it could be dropped into a mineral line and instantly activated? Why can't they just increase the time it takes to deploy? I'm having a hard time envisioning a situation where it is used to kill workers because it's not like it can chase them around or something... As for the issue of it being confusing, just make it damage allied units too. That would cause people to learn how it works nice and quickly. Maybe it's because transferring workers walk through it or something, but I think that's awesome. Nobody should be transferring workers somewhere that they don't know what is going on. Plus it would require quite a bit of luck to put it in a spot where a train of workers was about to go through.
I'm sad about the warhound as well. The whole reason why it was going to be good was that it was like the Thor for anti air, but small enough to maneuver correctly and cheap enough to build more of them without being stupid and allinish. I hope they come up with a good factory anti-air unit.
Also it has been said before, but I think Blizzard really needs to pay attention to this: GIVE TERRAN MORE OPTIONS IN PVT. JUST FUCKING FIGURE IT OUT. IF YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ANOTHER VIABLE OPTION BESIDES BIO IN HOTS YOU FAIL BIG TIME!!!!!
EDIT: I know a lot of people want them to add units from Brood War, but give Blizzard some credit. They have created some units in SC2 that were instant classics: Banelings, Banshees, Sentries, etc... People usually ignore some of the sick stuff that was added in Starcraft 2.
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God I hope they remove that slow ass Thor and keep the anti-air spider mine thingy to deal with muta harass... also can't wait for the imba 1000 miles range unit :DD
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EPT
