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On April 08 2012 15:57 storywriter wrote:
People please... Nobody expects Gerrard to give up his position because of this. Not ST, not ST's coach, not ST's players, not ST's fans, not even Gerrard himself. The reason Gerrard said this is to shut people up who can't let Prime enjoy something they worked so extremely hard for (something that's already half ruined because of something that's outside of their control). I don't know about you but it seems like MKP prepared very specific builds for this GSTL which would have been hard with MLG, IPL, and GSL all happening so close together. There is no point to dragging this unfortunate event out any longer. ST must feel the same way and I doubt they feel offended by Gerrard's statement.
As for Gerrard possibly having insisted on a regame, well, what do you expect a coach who cares deeply for his players to do? Even if MKP had a single SCV left against a 200/200 Protoss army, I would still expect a coach to argue in favour of his player. If ST's coach didn't, that's his fault. All this talk of honour and nobility seems really silly to me when all Gerrard did was put his players first.
I imagine ST might actually insist on GOM not giving up the replay, just to let this controversy roll over.
That said, I think Gerrard issuing such a PR statement is the absolute shittiest thing he could've done, because it essentially puts ST in the difficult position of acknowledging through their silence that they lost "fair and square!" or speaking up and looking like sore losers. This actually irritates me the most. He is trying to get rid of the taint of his team's victory by calling ST out on it and knowing that they most likely won't rise to the bait due to PR reasons.
Anyways, objecting won't change the outcome of the GSTL. There is nothing to be gained from giving this anymore attention.
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On April 08 2012 15:54 Cracked wrote:
As if a replay release would change anyone's mind.
Everyone on either side already has their minds made up. No objective analysis would ever be done.
Well, you know, "objective analysis" was made by Prime and judges, right? It's totally not biased and legit, right?
Prime did not deserve the win tonight, but saying anything in TeamLiquid thread will not change the decision of the tournament owners, nor will make StarTale champions of the GSTL, nor make us(and ST) feel any better.
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On April 08 2012 15:36 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 15:32 DidYuhim wrote:On April 08 2012 15:23 storywriter wrote:
sorry guys, slight mistranslation
"If fans of Startale or the general public think that Parting deserved a win, I will resign as team Prime’s coach" should have been "If Startale or the fans think that Parting deserved a win, I will resign as team Prime’s coach". Main difference is that Gerrard also addresses the team Startale. Fixed in OP Check how it sounds. "If loser's team will complain I will resign". It just says "I will not resign, but if they will complain it will make them look bullies". Nice move, buddy. I hope you will resign. Yeah, honestly, he won't resign, because there is no way ST will press the issue (it will make them look like sore tools, they are better off taking this defeat with an asterisk), and there's no way to prove that enough fans will complain anyways even if they do. ST doesn't have any super-popular players after all, nobody like MMA/DRG/MKP on their team, so not many fans.
People honestly think he did this to put ST in a bad place? No way he is doing it for bad motives. Man... the people in this world are just terrible. We really need to start teaching different values.
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On April 08 2012 15:59 omgimonfire15 wrote:This is true, but you have to look at the WHOLE situation. Where are the HTs? At partings base. They are not getting up there anytime soon. Vikings were after Warp prism so i doubt that would be effective. Plus he barely had any money to make units. In addition, you cannot underestimate MKP's micro. There is a video of him somewhere holding off a 4 gate rush after he expanded with minimal units. With all the production facilities he had, even though he may lose the first engagement, he could probably eliminate a good number of the stalkers and zealots that parting sent. If there was a colossi or HT, I would call gg, but we cannot say for certain what would have happened.
Marineking's micro is good, but there is a limit to what micro can do, for example you cant possiblity beat collossus with marines no matter how good your micro is. Similarly, you cant beat 16 zealots at your doorstep with 3 marauders even if you are automaton 2000.(marineking has productions but so does parting and marineking's productions are scatter and can be picked off one by one when the units come out while parting can warp all his reinforcement in one place.) And parting can choose to bring the high templars with his next wave of reinforcements and there is 0 % chance of marineking holding on with 2.7x less supply + no ghost against high templars.( you can micro your units out of storm, but with 2.7x less army the rest of the chargelots will eat your scattered marine marauders.
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On April 08 2012 16:04 DidYuhim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 15:54 Cracked wrote:
As if a replay release would change anyone's mind.
Everyone on either side already has their minds made up. No objective analysis would ever be done. Well, you know, "objective analysis" was made by Prime and judges, right? It's totally not biased and legit, right? Prime did not deserve the win tonight, but saying anything in TeamLiquid thread will not change the decision of the tournament owners, nor will make StarTale champions of the GSTL, nor make us(and ST) feel any better.
You realize that he had enough production to make a comeback if Parting messed up right? But beyond that you also realize there was GhostKingPrime and Creator left to play. It isn't like they could never have won with them playing after. Geez -_-
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Australia528 Posts
On April 08 2012 16:02 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 15:57 storywriter wrote:
People please... Nobody expects Gerrard to give up his position because of this. Not ST, not ST's coach, not ST's players, not ST's fans, not even Gerrard himself. The reason Gerrard said this is to shut people up who can't let Prime enjoy something they worked so extremely hard for (something that's already half ruined because of something that's outside of their control). I don't know about you but it seems like MKP prepared very specific builds for this GSTL which would have been hard with MLG, IPL, and GSL all happening so close together. There is no point to dragging this unfortunate event out any longer. ST must feel the same way and I doubt they feel offended by Gerrard's statement.
As for Gerrard possibly having insisted on a regame, well, what do you expect a coach who cares deeply for his players to do? Even if MKP had a single SCV left against a 200/200 Protoss army, I would still expect a coach to argue in favour of his player. If ST's coach didn't, that's his fault. All this talk of honour and nobility seems really silly to me when all Gerrard did was put his players first. I imagine ST might actually insist on GOM not giving up the replay, just to let this controversy roll over. That said, I think Gerrard issuing such a PR statement is the absolute shittiest thing he could've done, because it essentially puts ST in the difficult position of acknowledging through their silence that they lost "fair and square!" or speaking up and looking like sore losers. This actually irritates me the most.
Look at it this way. Both Prime and ST are professionals and probably quite close to each other after working in the same industry for so long. With the decision already made, the best thing to do is letting the winning team celebrate and moving on and hopefully, ST sees this. If so, there's no dilemma at all.
By the way, I'm not defending the actual decision of the regame since there was no way in hell MKP could have come back. But unless you actually want Prime to come out and say "yeah, we really shouldn't have taken the regame, here's the trophy back", I think Gerrard's actions should be considered praise worthy.
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On April 08 2012 16:04 DidYuhim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 15:54 Cracked wrote:
As if a replay release would change anyone's mind.
Everyone on either side already has their minds made up. No objective analysis would ever be done. Well, you know, "objective analysis" was made by Prime and judges, right? It's totally not biased and legit, right? Prime did not deserve the win tonight, but saying anything in TeamLiquid thread will not change the decision of the tournament owners, nor will make StarTale champions of the GSTL, nor make us(and ST) feel any better.
Ahh, now you're going with the conspiracy theory.
Why do you think that Prime had any say in it? Why don't you think that ST coaches had access to the same replay and provided their input as well?
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On April 08 2012 15:58 slicknav wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 15:43 duracell wrote:On April 08 2012 15:34 slicknav wrote:
People don't understand that an unfavorable position is not the same as an overwhelming victory. Parting was at an advantage, but that advantage wasn't enough to assume an automatic win. Just a different mindset, but you're just punishing different players. If two players are equal (50/50 to win before the match begins), and one player gained a 25% advantage and is now 75% to win at that point in the game, and it crashes and a regame is announced, it just robbed him of his 25% equity advantage because he is now 50% again. If you don't regame and award it to the guy with the 75% advantage, then the other guy is robbed of his 25% equity to win. It's not really fair either way, just takes equity from different people. It's hard to judge it, which is why experts are the ones deciding, but it should always try to reduce the least amount of unfair equity. I.e. if two players are 50-50, and one guy has a 80% chance to win at that point, and the other guy had 20%, then the 80% chance guy should be awarded a win even if it isn't 100% sure because doing so only robs the other player of 20% of "game equity" while regaming would rob the leading player by 30% "game equity". the problem is how do you reduce game moments to numbers and equity? There are so many factors involved that you can't just use the graphs people have been posting around.
Sure, it's hard and not concrete, which is why it should be experts and judges trying to do it. I am just saying that the theoretical magical number so to speak should be 76% chance of winning rather than 'no chance at all to comeback', because it reduces the least amount of unfair equity change.
Nobody wants this unfair crap to happen, but when it does, it should try to be as fair to BOTH players as possible, not just the losing one.
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On April 08 2012 16:02 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 15:57 storywriter wrote:
People please... Nobody expects Gerrard to give up his position because of this. Not ST, not ST's coach, not ST's players, not ST's fans, not even Gerrard himself. The reason Gerrard said this is to shut people up who can't let Prime enjoy something they worked so extremely hard for (something that's already half ruined because of something that's outside of their control). I don't know about you but it seems like MKP prepared very specific builds for this GSTL which would have been hard with MLG, IPL, and GSL all happening so close together. There is no point to dragging this unfortunate event out any longer. ST must feel the same way and I doubt they feel offended by Gerrard's statement.
As for Gerrard possibly having insisted on a regame, well, what do you expect a coach who cares deeply for his players to do? Even if MKP had a single SCV left against a 200/200 Protoss army, I would still expect a coach to argue in favour of his player. If ST's coach didn't, that's his fault. All this talk of honour and nobility seems really silly to me when all Gerrard did was put his players first. I imagine ST might actually insist on GOM not giving up the replay, just to let this controversy roll over. That said, I think Gerrard issuing such a PR statement is the absolute shittiest thing he could've done, because it essentially puts ST in the difficult position of acknowledging through their silence that they lost "fair and square!" or speaking up and looking like sore losers. This actually irritates me the most. He is trying to get rid of the taint of his team's victory by calling ST out on it and knowing that they most likely won't rise to the bait due to PR reasons. Anyways, objecting won't change the outcome of the GSTL. There is nothing to be gained from giving this anymore attention.
I actually completely agree with what you said about Gerard's PR statement. -_-;;
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On April 08 2012 15:57 storywriter wrote:
People please... Nobody expects Gerrard to give up his position because of this. Not ST, not ST's coach, not ST's players, not ST's fans, not even Gerrard himself. The reason Gerrard said this is to shut people up who can't let Prime enjoy something they worked so extremely hard for (when it's already half ruined because of things that's outside of their control). I don't know about you but it seems like MKP prepared very specific builds for this GSTL which would have been hard with MLG, IPL, and GSL all happening so close together. There is no point to dragging this unfortunate event out any longer. ST must feel the same way and I doubt they feel offended by Gerrard's statement.
As for Gerrard possibly having insisted on a regame, well, what do you expect a coach who cares deeply for his players to do? Even if MKP had a single SCV left against a 200/200 Protoss army, I would still expect a coach to argue in favour of his player. If ST's coach didn't, that's his fault. All this talk of honour and nobility seems really silly to me when all Gerrard did was put his players first.
I always thought that coaches should look after whole team and not just one player or a game. Making this statement or making the series go into a re-game is enough to make it look like PRIME desperately trying to make MarineKing win vs PartinG, as if they had no other options.
And moreover you make it sound like StarTale guys didn't put any effort to get to finals. MarineKing played his usual build order vs Protoss and Parting had to create specific build that will allow him to defend against it. Looks easy enough, right? He didn't go to MLG, IPL and certainly doesn't have to train himself to play against Polt, right?
Yes, Gerrard is a good coach, he made his team look like bunch of trash.
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On April 08 2012 16:13 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 16:02 babylon wrote:On April 08 2012 15:57 storywriter wrote:
People please... Nobody expects Gerrard to give up his position because of this. Not ST, not ST's coach, not ST's players, not ST's fans, not even Gerrard himself. The reason Gerrard said this is to shut people up who can't let Prime enjoy something they worked so extremely hard for (something that's already half ruined because of something that's outside of their control). I don't know about you but it seems like MKP prepared very specific builds for this GSTL which would have been hard with MLG, IPL, and GSL all happening so close together. There is no point to dragging this unfortunate event out any longer. ST must feel the same way and I doubt they feel offended by Gerrard's statement.
As for Gerrard possibly having insisted on a regame, well, what do you expect a coach who cares deeply for his players to do? Even if MKP had a single SCV left against a 200/200 Protoss army, I would still expect a coach to argue in favour of his player. If ST's coach didn't, that's his fault. All this talk of honour and nobility seems really silly to me when all Gerrard did was put his players first. I imagine ST might actually insist on GOM not giving up the replay, just to let this controversy roll over. That said, I think Gerrard issuing such a PR statement is the absolute shittiest thing he could've done, because it essentially puts ST in the difficult position of acknowledging through their silence that they lost "fair and square!" or speaking up and looking like sore losers. This actually irritates me the most. He is trying to get rid of the taint of his team's victory by calling ST out on it and knowing that they most likely won't rise to the bait due to PR reasons. Anyways, objecting won't change the outcome of the GSTL. There is nothing to be gained from giving this anymore attention. I actually completely agree with what you said about Gerard's PR statement. -_-;;
I agree with it too. He should have just said he abided by GOM's decision, instead of indirectly saying Parting did not deserve the win. It was a controversial win, and should be remembered as such -- neither he nor Prime deserve to have an untainted victory because it was in fact, tainted.
Can't have your cake and eat it too.
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I think the best decision is to let the coach ask marineking to hold off a 16 zealots 6 stalkers with 3 marauders 6 vikings, he can pull all the scvs he want, if marineking can hold off the attack he stays as the coach, if marineking cannot then he should walk his talk and resign. sounds fair enough
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On April 08 2012 15:18 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +I ask GomTV to release the replay so that there is no misunderstanding. If fans of Startale or the general public think that Parting deserved a win, I will resign as team Prime’s coach. Looks like Prime has an opening in their head coach position I suppose.
Speak for yourself I suppose. We're a lot to think that the regame decision was the right one. There's no denying that PartinG was at a big advantage, but ruling a default loss for MKP is another story. But I'm going off topic, great interviews, I would like to watch the replay from this game 
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Whatever the case I feel so sorry for PartinG. Him typing "asddada" into the drop sceen was painful to watch.
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I agree with it too. He should have just said he abided by GOM's decision, instead of indirectly saying Parting did not deserve the win. It was a controversial win, and should be remembered as such -- neither he nor Prime deserve to have an untainted victory because it was in fact, tainted.
Can't have your cake and eat it too.
^^ this
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On April 08 2012 16:07 storywriter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 16:02 babylon wrote:On April 08 2012 15:57 storywriter wrote:
People please... Nobody expects Gerrard to give up his position because of this. Not ST, not ST's coach, not ST's players, not ST's fans, not even Gerrard himself. The reason Gerrard said this is to shut people up who can't let Prime enjoy something they worked so extremely hard for (something that's already half ruined because of something that's outside of their control). I don't know about you but it seems like MKP prepared very specific builds for this GSTL which would have been hard with MLG, IPL, and GSL all happening so close together. There is no point to dragging this unfortunate event out any longer. ST must feel the same way and I doubt they feel offended by Gerrard's statement.
As for Gerrard possibly having insisted on a regame, well, what do you expect a coach who cares deeply for his players to do? Even if MKP had a single SCV left against a 200/200 Protoss army, I would still expect a coach to argue in favour of his player. If ST's coach didn't, that's his fault. All this talk of honour and nobility seems really silly to me when all Gerrard did was put his players first. I imagine ST might actually insist on GOM not giving up the replay, just to let this controversy roll over. That said, I think Gerrard issuing such a PR statement is the absolute shittiest thing he could've done, because it essentially puts ST in the difficult position of acknowledging through their silence that they lost "fair and square!" or speaking up and looking like sore losers. This actually irritates me the most. Look at it this way. Both Prime and ST are professionals and probably quite close to each other after working in the same industry for so long. With the decision already made, the best thing to do is letting the winning team celebrate and moving on and hopefully, ST sees this. If so, there's no dilemma at all. By the way, I'm not defending the actual decision of the regame since there was no way in hell MKP could have come back. But unless you actually want Prime to come out and say "yeah, we really shouldn't have taken the regame, here's the trophy back", I think Gerrard's actions should be considered praise worthy.
ST will fume, but they'll let it go. They actually don't have a dilemma anymore, except for how their players will perform tomorrow on low morale, because they know they won't object.
Prime's dilemma is Prime's dilemma; they have a trophy that was won under suspect circumstances. They are trying to look past it as best they can and implicitly asking for ST's support in the matter with this statement. Whether or not it has any influence on the opinions of the fans is another matter altogether. (I think not. People will think what they will think, and this interview isn't going to change matters much.)
Gerrard shouldn't have said he'd resign if ST and ST's fans think Parting should've won. He should've said: "I'm glad the refs granted us a regame, and I'm very thankful to MKP for pulling through for us in such a difficult situation." This places no onus on ST to give an "answer" and doesn't make Gerrard seem like he's scrambling for approval.
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lol i don't really understand what gerrard motive to say that..imagine if startale and the fans demand that parting won and then what? did they just put another 1 in score so it become 5-3? they should just carry on the win imo eventhough i'm with people consider their win a bit 'tainted'. they not gonna just play it again right....?
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The only way this story was going to end well is if the other team pulled out the victory anyway after the decision in its disfavor (like, Startale winning anyway, or Prime winning after MKP being given the loss). As it is, both Prime and Startale got robbed of their true win, unfortunately.
That being said, I got to see amazing games from MKP, so I'm happy with that. Gogo MKP :D
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On April 08 2012 16:28 scrapy wrote:
lol i don't really understand what gerrard motive to say that..imagine if startale and the fans demand that parting won and then what? did they just put another 1 in score so it become 5-3? they should just carry on the win imo eventhough i'm with people consider their win a bit 'tainted'. they not gonna just play it again right....?
The only possible fair thing would be to continue the series at 3-1 with the players that already lost unable to play and Parting starting for the 5th set.
It will never happen though, what's done is done.
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Look, if the disconnect had happened a minute or two earlier, everyone would have been like OMG MKP HAD THAT. Then in the course of those couple minutes, MKP managed to essentially suicide wave after wave into beautiful storms. And then there was the disconnect. Seriously, who could have known what was going to happen?
People say that MKP only had 3 marauders and 6 vikings versus a ton of stuff (16 zealots and 6 HT was it?). However, he had like 13 rax (3 of which were being camped), which were about to pop another wave of units. Saying he's got nothing is like saying Nestea (or some other Zerg) is dead against that when all he has is a handful of lings against that Protoss army when 20 roaches and a bunch of lings are about to pop, even if some are from a hatch that's under attack.
Like in the next game, Bomber looked like he was screwed when MKP sieged up outside his natural and forced a lift off and killed a ton of SCV's. Still, somehow, he broke the contain and then proceeded to drop and kill a ton of MKP's workers. Given that he lost eventually in a base race, but he busted out of a situation that, to me, looked pretty damn unwinnable.
Who can we really blame for the disconnect? No one-- far as I understand, there was a burp or fart in the internet connection, not in BNet or the computer. I think all we do is say it was "an act of God" (you know, like in insurance for your DVD player). Shit happens. If you want to look at it, it was just fate.
Good play from all the players.
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EPT
