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On March 31 2012 15:32 RIPJAWS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 15:31 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 15:28 RIPJAWS wrote:
everyone who is worried that kespa has any power at all doesn't really understand the law or patenting first of all just because kespa runs a few tounaments and things like that as soon as they get on blizzards nerves there will be a court case which blizzard would win for 2 reasons. 1. blizzard has so much money and power kespa if a fuckin fly to them that wont fuckin die. 2. this is intelectual property that belongs to blizzard as soon as blizzard says you cant use it they have to stop or risk being raped for every1 penny they ever owned. they treid that with SC and failed miserably the onyl way Blizz has control over KesPA is cause Kespa has to hold there tournaments on Bnet and blizz has it set up so anyone who wants to do taht has to ask permission if SC2 had lan then KeSPA wouldnt do anything blizz siads i was actually honestly not aware of that but dont u think the fact that its blizzards intelectual property and the fact that its copyrighted would mean that KESPA wont be able to use it unless blizz says so because in the end you are streaming content to a large amount of people significant enough that it would matter in a court and they are making money off of it so i think with those 2 things it might mean that they would lose the case if it ever happened
Blizzard didnt want them to be using SC and BW for pretty much the entire 12 years and KeSPA jsut kept saying its public content and stuff like that so they never had to pay Blizz a cent for using it
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On March 31 2012 15:32 RIPJAWS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 15:31 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 15:28 RIPJAWS wrote:
everyone who is worried that kespa has any power at all doesn't really understand the law or patenting first of all just because kespa runs a few tounaments and things like that as soon as they get on blizzards nerves there will be a court case which blizzard would win for 2 reasons. 1. blizzard has so much money and power kespa if a fuckin fly to them that wont fuckin die. 2. this is intelectual property that belongs to blizzard as soon as blizzard says you cant use it they have to stop or risk being raped for every1 penny they ever owned. they treid that with SC and failed miserably the onyl way Blizz has control over KesPA is cause Kespa has to hold there tournaments on Bnet and blizz has it set up so anyone who wants to do taht has to ask permission if SC2 had lan then KeSPA wouldnt do anything blizz siads i was actually honestly not aware of that but dont u think the fact that its blizzards intelectual property and the fact that its copyrighted would mean that KESPA wont be able to use it unless blizz says so because in the end you are streaming content to a large amount of people significant enough that it would matter in a court and they are making money off of it so i think with those 2 things it might mean that they would lose the case if it ever happened
There are a few threads on the issue here is one http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128517 basically it's like you say. Except from the Korean point of view and can be seen as foreign company trying to impose their laws on a Korean compagny. Search Blizzard Kespa for a few threads on the issue.
Edit: It can be a heated topic for people seeing it either in Blizzard favor as the creator, or Kespa as the one who did all the heavy lifting to raise E-sports. Of course Kespa acknowledges Blizzard but how much royalty and on what is a issue for both parties.
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On March 31 2012 15:41 NPF wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 15:32 RIPJAWS wrote:On March 31 2012 15:31 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 15:28 RIPJAWS wrote:
everyone who is worried that kespa has any power at all doesn't really understand the law or patenting first of all just because kespa runs a few tounaments and things like that as soon as they get on blizzards nerves there will be a court case which blizzard would win for 2 reasons. 1. blizzard has so much money and power kespa if a fuckin fly to them that wont fuckin die. 2. this is intelectual property that belongs to blizzard as soon as blizzard says you cant use it they have to stop or risk being raped for every1 penny they ever owned. they treid that with SC and failed miserably the onyl way Blizz has control over KesPA is cause Kespa has to hold there tournaments on Bnet and blizz has it set up so anyone who wants to do taht has to ask permission if SC2 had lan then KeSPA wouldnt do anything blizz siads i was actually honestly not aware of that but dont u think the fact that its blizzards intelectual property and the fact that its copyrighted would mean that KESPA wont be able to use it unless blizz says so because in the end you are streaming content to a large amount of people significant enough that it would matter in a court and they are making money off of it so i think with those 2 things it might mean that they would lose the case if it ever happened There are a few threads on the issue here is one http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128517 basically it's like you say. Except from the Korean point of view and can be seen as foreign company trying to impose their laws on a Korean compagny. Search Blizzard Kespa for a few threads on the issue.
actually i was about to ask if there were a court case would it be in a korean court or american because maybe blizzard
could fight for it be in an american court with it bieng there property and all.
Edit: i agree but i dont think blizzards goal is to get royalties there goal is to help esports grow which in the future will translate to more of there games being sold except kespa sees things differently to say the least so i guess the entire sc2 community can start sending hate mail to kespa because they are quite possibly the primary reason we dont have LAN FUCKIN KESPA LOL
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On March 31 2012 15:44 RIPJAWS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 15:41 NPF wrote:On March 31 2012 15:32 RIPJAWS wrote:On March 31 2012 15:31 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 15:28 RIPJAWS wrote:
everyone who is worried that kespa has any power at all doesn't really understand the law or patenting first of all just because kespa runs a few tounaments and things like that as soon as they get on blizzards nerves there will be a court case which blizzard would win for 2 reasons. 1. blizzard has so much money and power kespa if a fuckin fly to them that wont fuckin die. 2. this is intelectual property that belongs to blizzard as soon as blizzard says you cant use it they have to stop or risk being raped for every1 penny they ever owned. they treid that with SC and failed miserably the onyl way Blizz has control over KesPA is cause Kespa has to hold there tournaments on Bnet and blizz has it set up so anyone who wants to do taht has to ask permission if SC2 had lan then KeSPA wouldnt do anything blizz siads i was actually honestly not aware of that but dont u think the fact that its blizzards intelectual property and the fact that its copyrighted would mean that KESPA wont be able to use it unless blizz says so because in the end you are streaming content to a large amount of people significant enough that it would matter in a court and they are making money off of it so i think with those 2 things it might mean that they would lose the case if it ever happened There are a few threads on the issue here is one http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128517 basically it's like you say. Except from the Korean point of view and can be seen as foreign company trying to impose their laws on a Korean compagny. Search Blizzard Kespa for a few threads on the issue. actually i was about to ask if there were a court case would it be in a korean court or american because maybe blizzard could fight for it be in an american court with it bieng there property and all.
i think there SOL there since its a korean company doing it in Korea
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I don't understand this sentiment about foreigners getting "locked out" due to kespa's sudden rise to influence. I think this idea of gomtv championing the foreigner cause is one that is wrongly made. The only reason why gomtv bothers with the foreign scene at all is because that's where the money is at. Starcraft 2 is pretty dead in Korea and BW dying a slow death. Even if BW fans suddenly become assimilated into SC2 (and that's a BIG if) that doesn't change the fact that Korea will eventually never be able to support a large starcraft scene on its own, like it has in the past. In short, Kespa NEEDS foreigners to have starcraft be viable.
What many people don't realize is that the youth culture is vastly different in Korea than what it was over a decade ago. More so than ever before, you have a veritable army of pop icons dictating to kids how they should be living, and this new pop culture is one that frowns upon staying home and playing computer games. Seoul is a city that never sleeps and the night life in Korea has only gotten better, as well as becoming even more accessible to Korean youth. This is compounded by the fact that alcohol is dirt cheap (no $8 dollar 12oz beers there, try a 2$ bottle of soju instead). 18 is the legal age to drink and is very loosely enforced. I've drank on a couple of occasions with 15-16 year old kids masquerading as adults, not that they really needed do much masquerading to begin with. More people aren't playing Starcraft because there is simply other stuff for kids to do nowadays to spend their time. I think this is the reason why more casual social (rather than highly competitive) games are rising to prominence, Koreans are transforming into more social creatures...
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I'm relatively concerned that SlayerS is not apart of this federation. I'm sure they will come around, but that's the only weird thing about this entire situation. FXOBoss, do you have any input on the SlayerS situation?
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On March 30 2012 14:00 FXOBoSs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 14:00 Adebisi wrote:On March 30 2012 13:46 FXOBoSs wrote:
Hi guys,
The point of this association is purely to show that we have done the hard yards as organisations in Korea and abroad to get sc2 to where it is now. It would be improper for an organisation such as Kespa to then say "join us or die".
It also promotes the ability to run 2 leagues in Korea so that the players have more incentive to train hard. If there is no resistance or discussion between the two sides, there will be heavy schedule overlaps between proleague and GSL. It would also mean you would have to pick which side you wanted to be part of.
It 'potentially' would mean an end to foreigners in korea as well. Which none of us want of course.
I hope this helps.
Regards
FXOBoSs Why did SlayerS choose not be be involved? When has slayers ever been involved with other teams? If you look throughout history, they have always done their own thing.
Wait, how long has SlayerS existed? This sentence was typed as if they weren't created in 2010.
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On March 31 2012 15:38 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 15:32 RIPJAWS wrote:On March 31 2012 15:31 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 15:28 RIPJAWS wrote:
everyone who is worried that kespa has any power at all doesn't really understand the law or patenting first of all just because kespa runs a few tounaments and things like that as soon as they get on blizzards nerves there will be a court case which blizzard would win for 2 reasons. 1. blizzard has so much money and power kespa if a fuckin fly to them that wont fuckin die. 2. this is intelectual property that belongs to blizzard as soon as blizzard says you cant use it they have to stop or risk being raped for every1 penny they ever owned. they treid that with SC and failed miserably the onyl way Blizz has control over KesPA is cause Kespa has to hold there tournaments on Bnet and blizz has it set up so anyone who wants to do taht has to ask permission if SC2 had lan then KeSPA wouldnt do anything blizz siads i was actually honestly not aware of that but dont u think the fact that its blizzards intelectual property and the fact that its copyrighted would mean that KESPA wont be able to use it unless blizz says so because in the end you are streaming content to a large amount of people significant enough that it would matter in a court and they are making money off of it so i think with those 2 things it might mean that they would lose the case if it ever happened Blizzard didnt want them to be using SC and BW for pretty much the entire 12 years and KeSPA jsut kept saying its public content and stuff like that so they never had to pay Blizz a cent for using it
KeSPA was charging OGN and MBCgame to broadcast SC: BW, which is something KeSPA legally cannot do. That is were Blizzard stepped in and said, "Yo, you cannot charge other people for using something which you do not own." Then went to court, 3 times. And settled behind closed doors. I'm sure Blizzards pockets were much heavier when they left. Coincidentally, after that debacle, MBCgame stopped showing SC:BW because they went broke, and 3 BW teams were forced to disband.
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On March 31 2012 17:32 BanditX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 15:38 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 15:32 RIPJAWS wrote:On March 31 2012 15:31 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 15:28 RIPJAWS wrote:
everyone who is worried that kespa has any power at all doesn't really understand the law or patenting first of all just because kespa runs a few tounaments and things like that as soon as they get on blizzards nerves there will be a court case which blizzard would win for 2 reasons. 1. blizzard has so much money and power kespa if a fuckin fly to them that wont fuckin die. 2. this is intelectual property that belongs to blizzard as soon as blizzard says you cant use it they have to stop or risk being raped for every1 penny they ever owned. they treid that with SC and failed miserably the onyl way Blizz has control over KesPA is cause Kespa has to hold there tournaments on Bnet and blizz has it set up so anyone who wants to do taht has to ask permission if SC2 had lan then KeSPA wouldnt do anything blizz siads i was actually honestly not aware of that but dont u think the fact that its blizzards intelectual property and the fact that its copyrighted would mean that KESPA wont be able to use it unless blizz says so because in the end you are streaming content to a large amount of people significant enough that it would matter in a court and they are making money off of it so i think with those 2 things it might mean that they would lose the case if it ever happened Blizzard didnt want them to be using SC and BW for pretty much the entire 12 years and KeSPA jsut kept saying its public content and stuff like that so they never had to pay Blizz a cent for using it KeSPA was charging OGN and MBCgame to broadcast SC: BW, which is something KeSPA legally cannot do. That is were Blizzard stepped in and said, "Yo, you cannot charge other people for using something which you do not own." Then went to court, 3 times. And settled behind closed doors. I'm sure Blizzards pockets were much heavier when they left. Coincidentally, after that debacle, MBCgame stopped showing SC:BW because they went broke, and 3 BW teams were forced to disband.
MBC didnt go broke... they used the money for another Kpop channel cause KPop > esports.
and "forced"? u make it sound like someone told them disband or something bad will happen. the teams jsut didnt make enough money anymore for them 2 sponsor them.
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On March 31 2012 15:38 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 15:32 RIPJAWS wrote:On March 31 2012 15:31 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 15:28 RIPJAWS wrote:
everyone who is worried that kespa has any power at all doesn't really understand the law or patenting first of all just because kespa runs a few tounaments and things like that as soon as they get on blizzards nerves there will be a court case which blizzard would win for 2 reasons. 1. blizzard has so much money and power kespa if a fuckin fly to them that wont fuckin die. 2. this is intelectual property that belongs to blizzard as soon as blizzard says you cant use it they have to stop or risk being raped for every1 penny they ever owned. they treid that with SC and failed miserably the onyl way Blizz has control over KesPA is cause Kespa has to hold there tournaments on Bnet and blizz has it set up so anyone who wants to do taht has to ask permission if SC2 had lan then KeSPA wouldnt do anything blizz siads i was actually honestly not aware of that but dont u think the fact that its blizzards intelectual property and the fact that its copyrighted would mean that KESPA wont be able to use it unless blizz says so because in the end you are streaming content to a large amount of people significant enough that it would matter in a court and they are making money off of it so i think with those 2 things it might mean that they would lose the case if it ever happened Blizzard didnt want them to be using SC and BW for pretty much the entire 12 years and KeSPA jsut kept saying its public content and stuff like that so they never had to pay Blizz a cent for using it
Negotiations didn't start until 2007 and blizzard was well aware of kespa before then since they were inviting their players to the blizzcon tournaments and stuff. Blizzard's own store page for broodwar brags about it becoming a national sport in korea so I don't think its fair to say blizzard wanted to get rid of kespa for 12 years thats just a big exaggeration.
Kespa actually said a lot of things during that time it is interesting to go back and read it. I feel like its only fair to post some of it even if it might not be true so that people see their side and can decide for themselves.
- Since Blizzard asked for negotiations in 2007, Blizzard has only conducted 3~4 basic meetings and was not very enthusiastic about the negotiations. On June 7th 2009, with Starcraft 2 coming out soon, Blizzard and KeSPA delved into negotiations fully. However, the release date was pushed back, and the negotiations quickly became very vague, and soon after on April of this year, Blizzard announced that they would no longer be negotiating with KeSPA.
- Although Blizzard came and shook the eSports market by brandishing "intellectual property rights", we question if Blizzard even wanted to have sincere negotiations regarding these rights.
Q: Does KeSPA does not recognize Blizzard's IP rights at all?
- Fundamentally Sports are not something to be tackled using Intellectual Property. Does Adidas, who makes Soccer balls, demand usage fees from the World Cup? Similarly, car companies do not ask for usage fees from racing car contests.
- Without considering IP rights, Blizzard has been one of the greatest benefactors from growth of Korean eSports. Through Korean eSports, Starcraft 1 sales went up considerably and the product life cycle lengthened, and Blizzard gained many other many benefits. The game leagues operated by KeSPA uses official products.
- Even with all this, KeSPA has announced from the early days of negotiations that we wish to recognize the rights of Blizzard due to Starcraft and has made it clear that they would pay a modest game usage fee to Blizzard.
Q: To KeSPA, where are the boundaries of IP rights?
- IP rights are there as the basic rights of Game Creation companies.
- But Blizzard demands that organizations get permission for contract time needed for a safe operation of eSports, Sponsor and Marketing plans, Broadcasting plans, and royalties from broadcasting and sponsorships which is beyond game usage fees, and sub license fees.
- KeSPA believes that this is an unjust interference with operations, and also an unbeneficial negotiation setting as this goes beyond the scope of IP rights, and can see it as a poisonous article that shrinks the investment by corporations.
- While the situation already seems like it's about IP rights, but rather than a problem with IP rights, Blizzard shows extreme greed that is beyond common sense and in order to accomplish this Blizzard is shaking the future of Korean eSports.
2) In 1998 when Starcraft was released, Hanbitsoft, the company that had the rights to publish the game in Korea, was the first chairman of KeSPA and registered and approvedStarcraft as an official game (T/N: Category for eSports). Even back then the concept of eSports was still very vague, and thus Hanbitsoft, who held publishing rights in Korea, recommending and approving of the game supports the case that KeSPA did not illegally use Starcraft 1. In addition, Blizzard was aware of that these contests were being held and even supported it, only to find themselves years later claiming that Korea has illegally used Starcraft 1 and that their intellectual property rights were being violated. We wonder if this violating of intellectual property rights have hurt Blizzard in sales, and we want to know why Blizzard did not mention Intellectual property rights up to 2006 even though they were aware of such events.
▶ KeSPA and the 10 Progame teams acknowledge Blizzard's IP Rights.
KeSPA and the negotiation team have recognized Blizzard's intellectual property rights from the beginning of the negotiations as Blizzard is the original author. This agreement regarding recognizing Intellectual Property rights was something that was agreed upon even within the negotiations, and this was also the reason why negotiations were possible to the present, and KeSPA and the negotiation team had sincerely applied themselves to the negotiations.
But because recognizing the IP rights shouldn't be a chain that constrains the organizations involved via license fees, demanding complete ownership rights to derivative works, and to even demanding auditing rights to KeSPA, KeSPA has repeatedly been in discussions to try and reach a common ground where both sides can agree with with regards to IP rights acknowledgement.
▶ The misunderstanding behind the "Communal Property" Comment.
The comment that caused many misunderstandings that implied that Starcraft and other games involved in eSports are communal property is a comment stemming from an misunderstanding within communication process. KeSPA had only meant that eSports is within the realm of sports where many people watch and enjoy, and Sports needs to guarantee Public viewing rights to the audience. KeSPa will now make it clear that the remark did not intend to imply that "eSports games are communal property".
▶ The extreme amount requested by Gretech will put the eSports market under trial.
While Blizzard has mentioned that KeSPA had made 1.7 billion won in the three years KeSPA had run a licensing business, and that the amount Gretech requested is only 1/5th of the amount taken in by KeSPA, but in reality, the amount requested by the Gretech amounts to 700 million won a year minimum if you combine the Proleague and both Individual Leagues. This amounts to far more than 2 billion won even through a simple calculation. Furthermore, because Gretech continues to push for year long contracts, we don't know how much they will charge for extending the contract after the first year.
The current Korean Starcraft 1 eSports market still needs to grow before thinking about income structure, and requires a lot more investment.
While the proleague has accumulated a deficit of 670 million won over the 3 seasons, it is operated by broadcasting license fees and the organization fee. Furthermore, the broadcasting stations' individual leagues are continually operated despite that they are barely avoiding the deficit. Despite all of this, the negotiation team has announced that we are willing to pay an affordable amount of approval fee many times.
Blizzard did confirm the 700 million won thing kind of
- It is said Blizzard wants at least 700,000,000 won from the Korean market. Is that true? And why is this IP rights problem only in South Korea?
* The licensing fee is there to say that if they wish to use our content, they need to be capable of producing high quality content. When problems relating to intellectual rights is dealt with, the fee can be adjusted as needed. GomTV seems to have requested a fair amount as well. MBCGame and OGN are both ignoring our intellectual rights as well as not participating properly in the negotiations. Once the IP rights problem is dealt with, GomTV and Blizzard can adjust the licensing fee. This is not for the profits, but to protect our IP rights. To operate a business, it is important, as the holder of the IP, to get our IP rights protected.
All markets, including South Korea, request the rights to use our content. Of course, we cannot state exactly how much they needed to pay, but other markets do also pay as well. China and Taiwan came to us first, to get the license needed. We will finalize the licensing for broadcasting as well. It is not right to say that China has different situation than South Korea. This is same anywhere else including Europe.
To conclude I think Kespa is a jerk for boycotting GOM season 4, blizzard is jerk for asking so much and would have been far better off ignoring license fees and IP control and getting sc2 on TV instead so that the game could actually sell and get popular. Also GOM is a jerk if this is true.
Negotiations supposedly ended with "If we understand correctly, Gretech's demands are saying that, because the 7 year old Proleague does not benefit the company, thus, Gretech wants to get rid of it", with Gretech's side responding "That is correct"
- KT's representative that partook in the negotiations: "We once again confirmed that Gretech does not have any desire to negotiate as they deny the existence of Progame teams and the Proleague"
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The way that IP in fact matters to SC, SC:BW, and SC2 where they don't matter in other sports - The images, depictions, and physical structure of a soccer ball and soccer field, in addition to the rules and regulations of the game, are not themselves protected works. Certain rulesets, equipment models, and books about rules, describing the game, ARE copyrighted - but the game as a whole itself is not. It's a physical game, played in the real world, and it's very different from computer games. So a soccer ball is not a problem. But if you started creating hundreds of soccerballs with "Adidas" and "Puma" on them, in the same colors, it does become a problem.
Computer games are, from the basic code, the rules of the game, all artistic assets in the game, all sounds in the game, and every little pixel, copyrighted works (of art, to some; of commerce, to others) and all of them have been created since copyright laws have started to become strongly enforcable and extendable. Copyright periods have grown longer. And the entire manner of software sales has changed over time as well. I would have to go dig out the packaging for the original SC and SC:BW, so I am not sure to what specifics the EULA binds the user. (Or, in SC's case, if there was a EULA as we currently see them.) In short, whomever does the purchasing is not buying a copy of that game, but the legal rights to play that game - or at least this is how the software industry wants it to be. (The record industry is really trying hard to go that direction - they don't want you to own a CD copy, they want you to own an ephemeral license to listen to the music. Although that's always been a part of their marketing - records, CDs, even tapes which are marketed to DJs and for public performance are much higher priced because they include public performance rights - which your iTunes MP3 does not.)
Where KeSPA would go wrong, from an oversimplified legal point, is strongly depending on the actual licensing agreements (or lack thereof - as well as enforcability of any kind of "shrinkwrap" licenses) as well as the considered opinion of at least two judicial systems (SK and US). Even then, just broadcasting a game could be iffy, becuase (as previously mentioned) all the graphic assets and sound assets in the game are owned and copyrighted works. It's not legal in either country to broadcast works without proper permission - it'd be like running out to Wal-mart, buying a DVD of <insert movie here>, and then broadcasting it.
In any case, that'd be up to a lot of lawyers to untangle, but that's what I think the general gist of the entire IP issue.
To conclude I think Kespa is a jerk for boycotting GOM season 4, blizzard is jerk for asking so much and would have been far better off ignoring license fees and IP control and getting sc2 on TV instead so that the game could actually sell and get popular. Also GOM is a jerk if this is true.
Can't be done - the Blizzard part there. Intellectual Property must be fought for or you lose it - at the very least, the trademark "StarCraft" must be defended or the company claiming it loses the right to claim it. It's a US legal requirement. As for the rest of the IP involved, it's much the same - if you don't defend it, then it's not yours and if you ever have to defend it against a truly malicious or horrific use, you will have a lousy case and terrible day in court. Also, Blizzard (with regard to SC2) I think isn't doing too lousy with licensing - they pretty much will give a license to anyone that asks (although they may charge depending on how much the event is going to make, whether it's for profit or not, etc), and they aren't flexing their muscles on the hoards of streamers that probably don't have a license to broadcast their games.
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ANYWAYS.
Back on the actual topic.
Will the new e-Sports Federation be setting up its own website, domain, forums, etc.- give community a chance to interact with it and act as a central hub of sorts for not only team to team communication and planning, but also as a possible outlet for fans to learn more about the teams or engage the teams themselves? (Even if, maybe, there's only a brief bit of information and then a link out to the team's site.)
Again, I'm thinking in terms of major sports organizations in the US - where, for example, if I don't happen to know the Bruins' website, I can always go to the NHL's website and find it from there.
(Yeah, yeah, TL is pretty much that for a lot of nerds - even if you aren't a fan of Team Liquid, you still come here. And TLPD seems to be used by EVERYONE.)
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On March 31 2012 15:44 RIPJAWS wrote:
Edit: i agree but i dont think blizzards goal is to get royalties there goal is to help esports grow which in the future will translate to more of there games being sold except kespa sees things differently to say the least so i guess the entire sc2 community can start sending hate mail to kespa because they are quite possibly the primary reason we dont have LAN FUCKIN KESPA LOL
Wow they got you hook line and sinker. Somebody in Blizzard's PR department is getting a bonus for this.
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United Kingdom1666 Posts
On March 31 2012 15:44 RIPJAWS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 15:41 NPF wrote:On March 31 2012 15:32 RIPJAWS wrote:On March 31 2012 15:31 Forikorder wrote:On March 31 2012 15:28 RIPJAWS wrote:
everyone who is worried that kespa has any power at all doesn't really understand the law or patenting first of all just because kespa runs a few tounaments and things like that as soon as they get on blizzards nerves there will be a court case which blizzard would win for 2 reasons. 1. blizzard has so much money and power kespa if a fuckin fly to them that wont fuckin die. 2. this is intelectual property that belongs to blizzard as soon as blizzard says you cant use it they have to stop or risk being raped for every1 penny they ever owned. they treid that with SC and failed miserably the onyl way Blizz has control over KesPA is cause Kespa has to hold there tournaments on Bnet and blizz has it set up so anyone who wants to do taht has to ask permission if SC2 had lan then KeSPA wouldnt do anything blizz siads i was actually honestly not aware of that but dont u think the fact that its blizzards intelectual property and the fact that its copyrighted would mean that KESPA wont be able to use it unless blizz says so because in the end you are streaming content to a large amount of people significant enough that it would matter in a court and they are making money off of it so i think with those 2 things it might mean that they would lose the case if it ever happened There are a few threads on the issue here is one http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128517 basically it's like you say. Except from the Korean point of view and can be seen as foreign company trying to impose their laws on a Korean compagny. Search Blizzard Kespa for a few threads on the issue. actually i was about to ask if there were a court case would it be in a korean court or american because maybe blizzard could fight for it be in an american court with it bieng there property and all. Edit: i agree but i dont think blizzards goal is to get royalties there goal is to help esports grow which in the future will translate to more of there games being sold except kespa sees things differently to say the least so i guess the entire sc2 community can start sending hate mail to kespa because they are quite possibly the primary reason we dont have LAN FUCKIN KESPA LOL
So many deeply ill-educated and clueless posts in this thread about the whole crap. The way the whole thing went down, everyone came off badly. What you fail to realise is that Blizzard DID want to simply milk some royalties out of BroodWar. Actually, they wanted to kill it stone dead, but they settled for just sucking money out of it which, honestly, they really don't need.
Blizzard fanboy flag-wavers make me pretty frustrated because they're about five minutes old in the competitive gaming scene, and they come into all this rubbish Blizz propaganda about growing "esports" and lovey-dovey stuff about some fairytale industry springing up under their benign, attentive gaze. What do they really want to do? They want to take your money until your wallet is empty. Try reading up about Bobby Kotick, and see where that gets the holy image of the company when you see who's in charge. The nerve of Mike Morhaime showing up at a BW proleague match recently, on one of his trips to drag BW out of circulation and replace it with his own cash-cow took me aback too.
I'm under no illusions- Kespa have had their share of wrongdoings; but it swings both ways. I think "esports" is threatening to become a great grounds for pissing wars between big businesses who know that they can sell 14 year-old nerds anything, as long as it's endorsed by somebody who sits on the other side of the barrier at LANs. There's going to be a lot of vying for control coming up very soon, and this e-Sports Federation is a sign of that. And why? Because they're all competing for who loves "esports" most?? Ridiculous. It's for who can control this industry most.
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On March 30 2012 13:37 Phemtos wrote:
April is coming
the cruelest month
Kespa sounds scary...scary is bad for esports.
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On March 31 2012 20:20 ImbaTosS wrote:
I'm under no illusions- Kespa have had their share of wrongdoings; but it swings both ways. I think "esports" is threatening to become a great grounds for pissing wars between big businesses who know that they can sell 14 year-old nerds anything, as long as it's endorsed by somebody who sits on the other side of the barrier at LANs. There's going to be a lot of vying for control coming up very soon, and this e-Sports Federation is a sign of that. And why? Because they're all competing for who loves "esports" most?? Ridiculous. It's for who can control this industry most.
Unfortunately, from the legal issues stemming around IP, eSports as an industry is pretty much at the mercy of whomever holds the IP that is the current game of choice. It's all about money - the only people in it for "eSports" as a passion are going to be the fans. The game companies, leagues, broadcasters, teams, and players, are all in it professionally for the money. Some may also have "lovey dovey" feelings about the community, but in the end it all has to be about the bottom line because economically, you have to make money. You can't create games for free, broadcast them for free, or play the game professionally for free. That's pretty much a given regardless of whether you're talking about eSports, sports, or just plain life. There must be support, financially, and that has to come from monetization of the underlying passion. Otherwise you wind up with hobbies, and even hobbies support themselves financially on some level.
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Now now, calm down people. You guys are missing a crucial information here. After 2010-2011 pro league finals, which was an epic fail, most of former kespa members had since drastically restructured. So even though most of the stuff kespa has done until 2011 were anti-sc2, today's kespa I believe is more favorable to sc2 now.
Edited for conciseness
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On March 31 2012 22:26 mrlie3 wrote:
Now now, calm down people. You guys are missing a crucial information here. After 2010-2011 pro league finals, which was an epic fail, most of former kespa members had since drastically restructured. So even though most of the stuff kespa has done until 2011 were anti-sc2, today's kespa I believe is more favorable to sc2 now.
Edited for conciseness
yes, Proleague finals were an epic fail. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257268 Definitley an epic fail.
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i dont get how KesPA can try and compare SC2 to soccer, soccer doesnt require any special equpiment, you sick a net in the ground, draw a couple lines and put a ball down and you can play soccer
if there was some sort of special sport that required specialized equipment that was made by only one company who also invented all the rules for the sport then its pretty obvious taht that company will do everything it can to make sure noone can play or watch it without them getting a check
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EPT
