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Forum Index > SC2 General
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Silvertine
Profile Joined February 2012
United States509 Posts
March 15 2012 10:34 GMT
#1401
On March 15 2012 19:25 tomatriedes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2012 18:24 Silvertine wrote:
On March 15 2012 17:32 tomatriedes wrote:
On March 15 2012 14:18 Silvertine wrote:
On March 15 2012 13:48 Sroobz wrote:
On March 15 2012 08:25 Forikorder wrote:
On March 15 2012 08:18 BeeNu wrote:
On March 15 2012 05:45 randomKo_Orean wrote:
On March 15 2012 04:58 yaxv wrote:
Orb, you were a great caster. Too bad someone had to dig your past. :-(

There's a difference between "digging [someone's] past" and getting caught for doing it consistently and on regular basis then make excuses for it every time, getting a free pass for all these time for being a gigantic douchebag.


Are we talking about Idra or Orb? I keep getting confused.

the one who actually said something bad enough to get punished for



Is faggot not worse or on the same level as nigger?

That argument has been presented and contradicted maybe 300 times in this thread.


It hasn't been contradicted satisfactorily though. Look at the discrimination and abuse gay people have suffered from in the past(including being rounded up and killed en masse during WW2) and try to tell me that there's nothing wrong with using the words 'faggot' and 'gay' as insults. Just because some of the people in this thread don't think it's offensive anymore doesn't make it a fact. Do you think anyone in mainstream media would get away with using it as an insult?

Good job dismantling those imaginary arguments.


Read the thread. People have been making these arguments in support of Idra.

No, they've been arguing that 'faggot' and 'gay' are not comparable to 'nigger', and that is absolutely true.
SuperFanBoy
Profile Joined June 2011
New Zealand1068 Posts
March 15 2012 10:51 GMT
#1402
On March 15 2012 19:15 Tobberoth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2012 17:17 SuperFanBoy wrote:
If any sports caster used the N word they would be fired and never be heard of again.. If we are to take esports seriously then the same should happen in this case. I feel bad for you because of the poor judgment you made, however using the N word is really crossing the line.

edit - after looking at the screenshots, I don't feel bad for you.. because every time you used the n word you said "dumb" before it, do you think all black people are dumb? I hope to never see you casting professionally again. This was way out of line, and if any tournament does take you, I will make sure not to watch that tournament.

Have you ever made a mistake in your life? Yeah? I hope no one ever hires you in the future, because making a mistake in the past curses you for life.

Oh wait, that's downright dumb.


It wasn't a one off mistake.. There is different screenshots from different occasions on which he made these racist remarks. I understand by saying "Oh I lost my temper and I didn't mean what I said" but to do it several times is unacceptable. What he said can not be unsaid, the anger and pain he may have afflicted to people who took offense can not be undone. In life you are responsible for what you do and what you say, people like Martin Luther King Jr. sacrificed their lives to change our perspective on race and equality.

If we don't take his comments seriously and allow commentators to say things like that without any repercussions then how can esports be taken seriously?
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-15 10:54:57
March 15 2012 10:53 GMT
#1403
On March 15 2012 19:51 SuperFanBoy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2012 19:15 Tobberoth wrote:
On March 15 2012 17:17 SuperFanBoy wrote:
If any sports caster used the N word they would be fired and never be heard of again.. If we are to take esports seriously then the same should happen in this case. I feel bad for you because of the poor judgment you made, however using the N word is really crossing the line.

edit - after looking at the screenshots, I don't feel bad for you.. because every time you used the n word you said "dumb" before it, do you think all black people are dumb? I hope to never see you casting professionally again. This was way out of line, and if any tournament does take you, I will make sure not to watch that tournament.

Have you ever made a mistake in your life? Yeah? I hope no one ever hires you in the future, because making a mistake in the past curses you for life.

Oh wait, that's downright dumb.


It wasn't a one off mistake.. There is different screenshots from different occasions on which he made these racist remarks. I understand by saying "Oh I lost my temper and I didn't mean what I said" but to do it several times is unacceptable. What he said can not be unsaid, the anger and pain he may have afflicted to people who took offense can not be undone. In life you are responsible for what you do and what you say, people like Martin Luther King Jr. sacrificed their lives to change our perspective on race and equality.

If we don't take his comments seriously and allow commentators to say things like that without any repercussions then how can esports be taken seriously?

Why can't you take it seriously and then forgive? It was in the past, it was long before EG hired him, WHY is this haunting him now, it's downright stupid! It doesn't even matter if he WAS a racist (he wasn't) but the point is that it was in THE PAST. He shouldn't be punished way after the fact for something he has regretted long since.

Don't make it out to be that a caster said "nigger", it's about a caster who said "nigger" in moments of anger in the past. It's just words, and it's words in the past.
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-15 10:57:25
March 15 2012 10:55 GMT
#1404
On March 15 2012 19:34 Silvertine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2012 19:25 tomatriedes wrote:
On March 15 2012 18:24 Silvertine wrote:
On March 15 2012 17:32 tomatriedes wrote:
On March 15 2012 14:18 Silvertine wrote:
On March 15 2012 13:48 Sroobz wrote:
On March 15 2012 08:25 Forikorder wrote:
On March 15 2012 08:18 BeeNu wrote:
On March 15 2012 05:45 randomKo_Orean wrote:
On March 15 2012 04:58 yaxv wrote:
Orb, you were a great caster. Too bad someone had to dig your past. :-(

There's a difference between "digging [someone's] past" and getting caught for doing it consistently and on regular basis then make excuses for it every time, getting a free pass for all these time for being a gigantic douchebag.


Are we talking about Idra or Orb? I keep getting confused.

the one who actually said something bad enough to get punished for



Is faggot not worse or on the same level as nigger?

That argument has been presented and contradicted maybe 300 times in this thread.


It hasn't been contradicted satisfactorily though. Look at the discrimination and abuse gay people have suffered from in the past(including being rounded up and killed en masse during WW2) and try to tell me that there's nothing wrong with using the words 'faggot' and 'gay' as insults. Just because some of the people in this thread don't think it's offensive anymore doesn't make it a fact. Do you think anyone in mainstream media would get away with using it as an insult?

Good job dismantling those imaginary arguments.


Read the thread. People have been making these arguments in support of Idra.

No, they've been arguing that 'faggot' and 'gay' are not comparable to 'nigger', and that is absolutely true.


You're mixing up opinion with fact there. What people take offense at is subjective and there I'm sure there are many (including myself) who find the words equally offensive.

You really thing calling someone a 'fucking faggot' is any better than calling someone a 'fucking nigger'?
ZergX
Profile Joined October 2010
France436 Posts
March 15 2012 11:02 GMT
#1405
I like Orb very much : ) Good guy , just listened to what he had to say on State of the Game. And im all good. Really intelligent man ! His cast is smart and hope he'll keep contributing to the sc2 scene as long as possible

♥ !
Nestea fightingg ! DRG fightingggg !! Sen fightinggg ! July fighting ! SoO fighting !
khazgore
Profile Joined November 2010
Norway104 Posts
March 15 2012 11:10 GMT
#1406
Could anyone give me a link to the Vod of the state of the game? i want to hear what he has to say!
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
March 15 2012 15:59 GMT
#1407
On March 15 2012 19:53 Tobberoth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2012 19:51 SuperFanBoy wrote:
On March 15 2012 19:15 Tobberoth wrote:
On March 15 2012 17:17 SuperFanBoy wrote:
If any sports caster used the N word they would be fired and never be heard of again.. If we are to take esports seriously then the same should happen in this case. I feel bad for you because of the poor judgment you made, however using the N word is really crossing the line.

edit - after looking at the screenshots, I don't feel bad for you.. because every time you used the n word you said "dumb" before it, do you think all black people are dumb? I hope to never see you casting professionally again. This was way out of line, and if any tournament does take you, I will make sure not to watch that tournament.

Have you ever made a mistake in your life? Yeah? I hope no one ever hires you in the future, because making a mistake in the past curses you for life.

Oh wait, that's downright dumb.


It wasn't a one off mistake.. There is different screenshots from different occasions on which he made these racist remarks. I understand by saying "Oh I lost my temper and I didn't mean what I said" but to do it several times is unacceptable. What he said can not be unsaid, the anger and pain he may have afflicted to people who took offense can not be undone. In life you are responsible for what you do and what you say, people like Martin Luther King Jr. sacrificed their lives to change our perspective on race and equality.

If we don't take his comments seriously and allow commentators to say things like that without any repercussions then how can esports be taken seriously?

Why can't you take it seriously and then forgive? It was in the past, it was long before EG hired him, WHY is this haunting him now, it's downright stupid! It doesn't even matter if he WAS a racist (he wasn't) but the point is that it was in THE PAST. He shouldn't be punished way after the fact for something he has regretted long since.

Don't make it out to be that a caster said "nigger", it's about a caster who said "nigger" in moments of anger in the past. It's just words, and it's words in the past.

if it stayed in teh past it ouwldnt be a problem

but people on Reddit brought it to the present by posting tons of screenshots and raging about it so it was no longer something that happened in the past it became a problem in the present
HiOT
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Sweden1000 Posts
March 15 2012 16:26 GMT
#1408
Karma
Officially the founder of Team Property (:
silentsod
Profile Joined August 2010
United States198 Posts
March 15 2012 18:09 GMT
#1409
On March 15 2012 20:10 khazgore wrote:
Could anyone give me a link to the Vod of the state of the game? i want to hear what he has to say!




Orb was well spoken, and from what his statements were on SotG I wouldn't mind if he came back to casting in half a year or so. The highlight, for me, was him admitting his behavior then wasn't justifiable due to the fact that he's playing against another flesh and blood human on the other end.

The whole thing showed a level of maturity I hadn't seen from him before.
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
March 15 2012 18:11 GMT
#1410
On March 16 2012 03:09 silentsod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2012 20:10 khazgore wrote:
Could anyone give me a link to the Vod of the state of the game? i want to hear what he has to say!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCHlTYWnpnM

Orb was well spoken, and from what his statements were on SotG I wouldn't mind if he came back to casting in half a year or so. The highlight, for me, was him admitting his behavior then wasn't justifiable due to the fact that he's playing against another flesh and blood human on the other end.

The whole thing showed a level of maturity I hadn't seen from him before.

it reeked of pre-written sentiments
CtrLZerG
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States104 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-15 18:20:21
March 15 2012 18:14 GMT
#1411
On March 16 2012 03:09 silentsod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2012 20:10 khazgore wrote:
Could anyone give me a link to the Vod of the state of the game? i want to hear what he has to say!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCHlTYWnpnM

Orb was well spoken, and from what his statements were on SotG I wouldn't mind if he came back to casting in half a year or so. The highlight, for me, was him admitting his behavior then wasn't justifiable due to the fact that he's playing against another flesh and blood human on the other end.

The whole thing showed a level of maturity I hadn't seen from him before.

I actually agree as well. 6 months should show whether he's grown from this at all.
If he has, there really is no reason to keep condemning him. That would only negatively effect the community.
Also, the fact that he's willing to accept punishment shows he has a good attitude. He knows he's wrong, he's recognized the root of the problem, and he's decided to grow from it.
EDIT:
On March 16 2012 03:11 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2012 03:09 silentsod wrote:
On March 15 2012 20:10 khazgore wrote:
Could anyone give me a link to the Vod of the state of the game? i want to hear what he has to say!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCHlTYWnpnM

Orb was well spoken, and from what his statements were on SotG I wouldn't mind if he came back to casting in half a year or so. The highlight, for me, was him admitting his behavior then wasn't justifiable due to the fact that he's playing against another flesh and blood human on the other end.

The whole thing showed a level of maturity I hadn't seen from him before.

it reeked of pre-written sentiments


Even if you presume that's the case, that's an extremely cynical point of view, in my opinion. Of COURSE it's scripted. Why would he want to risk saying something else that could put him in hot water? Don't attach bad motives to a person. He's been punished, and he's going to lay low for a while. If he does change from it, and doesn't make another big mistake like this, it wouldn't hurt the community if he came back in several months.

I'm honestly not a big fan of Orb. However, the cynicism I've seen from the community in this post really is disappointing. The fact that people actually went to the sponsors in anger really proves that point for me. The community needs to learn from that as well. It's not fair to people who weren't involved when you go to a sponsor that will effect an entire team. That's totally uncool.
"If you write what you like, there's got to be something good about it, because you liked it" - Elliott Smith "You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free"
gEzUS
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Canada371 Posts
March 15 2012 18:17 GMT
#1412
He couldnt act any other way, he can't really defend himself. Not impressed.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 15 2012 18:17 GMT
#1413
On March 16 2012 03:09 silentsod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2012 20:10 khazgore wrote:
Could anyone give me a link to the Vod of the state of the game? i want to hear what he has to say!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCHlTYWnpnM

Orb was well spoken, and from what his statements were on SotG I wouldn't mind if he came back to casting in half a year or so. The highlight, for me, was him admitting his behavior then wasn't justifiable due to the fact that he's playing against another flesh and blood human on the other end.

The whole thing showed a level of maturity I hadn't seen from him before.


I agree, Orb was pretty great. He brought up all the points that were necessary and took ownership of his mistakes. I have done some dumb stuff in my life, but never infront as many people as he did. I felt bad for him because he did not mean any harm with his ladder rage. But the most important part is that Orb understood that his ladder rage likely did harm someone and that is why a part of the community was angry.

I didn't know much about Orb until the show, but he showed a lot of class during all of this. I am more than happy to give him a chance if he gets another chance to cast.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
March 15 2012 18:19 GMT
#1414
Even if you presume that's the case, that's an extremely cynical point of view, in my opinion. Of COURSE it's scripted. Why would he want to risk saying something else that could put him in hot water? Don't attach bad motives to a person. He's been punished, and he's going to lay low for a while. If he does change from it, and doesn't make another big mistake like this, it wouldn't hurt the community if he came back in several months.

im willing to bet he wont change hell jsut use a smurf from now on
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-15 18:21:35
March 15 2012 18:20 GMT
#1415
On March 16 2012 03:11 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2012 03:09 silentsod wrote:
On March 15 2012 20:10 khazgore wrote:
Could anyone give me a link to the Vod of the state of the game? i want to hear what he has to say!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCHlTYWnpnM

Orb was well spoken, and from what his statements were on SotG I wouldn't mind if he came back to casting in half a year or so. The highlight, for me, was him admitting his behavior then wasn't justifiable due to the fact that he's playing against another flesh and blood human on the other end.

The whole thing showed a level of maturity I hadn't seen from him before.

it reeked of pre-written sentiments


As it should. If you are going to say something to a large group of people, you should think about and even practice what you are going to say. It shows that he cared and took the time to line up his thoughts. Do you think other professionals do not do the same thing? Do you think I don't prepare for interviews or intakes with potential clients?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
March 15 2012 18:27 GMT
#1416
On March 16 2012 03:20 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2012 03:11 Forikorder wrote:
On March 16 2012 03:09 silentsod wrote:
On March 15 2012 20:10 khazgore wrote:
Could anyone give me a link to the Vod of the state of the game? i want to hear what he has to say!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCHlTYWnpnM

Orb was well spoken, and from what his statements were on SotG I wouldn't mind if he came back to casting in half a year or so. The highlight, for me, was him admitting his behavior then wasn't justifiable due to the fact that he's playing against another flesh and blood human on the other end.

The whole thing showed a level of maturity I hadn't seen from him before.

it reeked of pre-written sentiments


As it should. If you are going to say something to a large group of people, you should think about and even practice what you are going to say. It shows that he cared and took the time to line up his thoughts. Do you think other professionals do not do the same thing? Do you think I don't prepare for interviews or intakes with potential clients?

what i meant was it sounds like he saids what he thinks we want to hear not what he thinks should be said
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
March 15 2012 18:40 GMT
#1417
So you're basically saying that you don't care what he says.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Eiaco
Profile Joined January 2012
170 Posts
March 15 2012 18:42 GMT
#1418
When someone says faggot it means gay person. When a black person says nigger to another black it means friend or equal. When a white person says nigger it basically means slave.
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
March 15 2012 18:54 GMT
#1419
On March 16 2012 03:20 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2012 03:11 Forikorder wrote:
On March 16 2012 03:09 silentsod wrote:
On March 15 2012 20:10 khazgore wrote:
Could anyone give me a link to the Vod of the state of the game? i want to hear what he has to say!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCHlTYWnpnM

Orb was well spoken, and from what his statements were on SotG I wouldn't mind if he came back to casting in half a year or so. The highlight, for me, was him admitting his behavior then wasn't justifiable due to the fact that he's playing against another flesh and blood human on the other end.

The whole thing showed a level of maturity I hadn't seen from him before.

it reeked of pre-written sentiments


As it should. If you are going to say something to a large group of people, you should think about and even practice what you are going to say. It shows that he cared and took the time to line up his thoughts. Do you think other professionals do not do the same thing? Do you think I don't prepare for interviews or intakes with potential clients?

Nah you're supposed to go into an interview completely unprepared and just make stuff up on the fly so that people believe you're being honest with them.

But wait, who's to say that you're not just pretending to do an on the spot response in a premeditated attempt to feign honesty?

*rolls eyes*
I love crazymoving
FGFGFG
Profile Joined March 2012
Netherlands21 Posts
March 15 2012 18:58 GMT
#1420
On March 16 2012 03:27 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2012 03:20 Plansix wrote:
On March 16 2012 03:11 Forikorder wrote:
On March 16 2012 03:09 silentsod wrote:
On March 15 2012 20:10 khazgore wrote:
Could anyone give me a link to the Vod of the state of the game? i want to hear what he has to say!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCHlTYWnpnM

Orb was well spoken, and from what his statements were on SotG I wouldn't mind if he came back to casting in half a year or so. The highlight, for me, was him admitting his behavior then wasn't justifiable due to the fact that he's playing against another flesh and blood human on the other end.

The whole thing showed a level of maturity I hadn't seen from him before.

it reeked of pre-written sentiments


As it should. If you are going to say something to a large group of people, you should think about and even practice what you are going to say. It shows that he cared and took the time to line up his thoughts. Do you think other professionals do not do the same thing? Do you think I don't prepare for interviews or intakes with potential clients?

what i meant was it sounds like he saids what he thinks we want to hear not what he thinks should be said


Of course he doesn't completely mean what he says, and ofc he's not really super-sorry. Why would he be sorry for having a little rage like everyone else, and using 'bad' words almost everyone else uses? He is just saying what he needs to say to please all the people who are 'offended', and move on. Not much else he can do imo...
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