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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 09 2012 14:07 ThaZenith wrote:
I'm disappointed people complained to the sponsors so fast. That, my friends, IS hurting esports. Keep doing that so quickly anytime anything goes wrong and nobody is going to want to get involved with us. Jesus christ guys.
This. Of all the parties involved I find that the community handled this situation the worst.
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Not sure I feel about this, though EG was backed into a corner with the angry mob. Orb did deserve some form of punishment, but this seems very harsh as it is unlikely he will get into any job in esports in the near future if at all. Furthermore, seems like Idra has done something similar even when he was under contract with EG.
Overall, I feel it is too harsh. However, what he (Orb) said was pretty negative as well.
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Honestly I think that firing Orb is extreme. I don't recall him ever dropping an N-bomb while casting, so why is he being punished for past actions? Yes, it is unacceptable language, but he did not give cause to fire him while he was under contracted for EG. Orb is a good caster, which is shown by his ability to separate his personal views from his professional life. Any caster or player will act differently on their personal stream than they will in a professional atmosphere. Sure if EG had known about Orb's past they might not have hired him; but every company has to trust that the casters they hire are responsible enough to be professional while they are representing the company.
Language is only made offensive by the user's intent, paired with the social stigma surrounding a word. That said, Orb used the N-word knowing that it was offensive, so he can't be completely innocent in this matter, but did he intend for it to be offensive. On the other hand: where do we as a community draw the line on what language is acceptable and what crosses the line? What about the use of Rape or Gay? Those words are part of the gamer vernacular; this does not mean that when someone uses those words they mean the clinical sense.
I am not defending Orb's use of the N-word, because that is unacceptable. I simply don't think that he should have been punished as harshly as he was. This is my opinion, take it as you will. I do agree with a lot of what was said though.
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On March 09 2012 14:08 bobwhiz wrote:
Idra and Huk's streams are filled with misogyny, "racist" remarks, and homophobia. Supposedly they always get chastised...
I think they should both lose their contracts with EG.
Anything less is hypocrisy.
this is true. huk uses the N word we can't say often.
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back then nobody did care lol... That was in jan 2010 when bw foreign scene was nowhere as big as sc2 is now. I do think this was made a bigger deal then it should have been anyway.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On March 09 2012 14:08 Tewks44 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 14:08 SadSatyr wrote:
Great statement. EG is still my favorite team (but TL is a very close second) uh oh, temp ban incoming
Maybe for YOU? ^^
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What can I say?
Orb screwed up and now is paying for his mistake.
Is it fair? Life hardly is fair. I guess that will teach him that using offensive language may offend someone, and if you are part of an organization exposed to public scrutiny you are bound to get examined more.
Also lol @ all the people who use their own experiences to defend orb "Oh its not big deal, I say it over xbox live all the time and its cool. BTW some of my best friends are *insert group of people affected*". Its almost like if society judged people over a certain set of subjective rules of conduct. Come on guys its part of living in a society its not that hard to understand that if you say something controversial people maaaay not like you.
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Seriously? This reflects badly on all of us.
Sure, what Orb did was what our community obviously feels is wrong. But instead of being big boys and girls and simply saying "Hey, EG, sort your guy out." We went with torches and pitchforks and burned some guy's career down over a word. So apparently we're a giant screaming mob. Doesn't sound like the kind of place large companies will want to risk wading into for advertising.
This community needs to calm the fuck down. I am disappoint...
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The EG boys are really going to have to watch what they say now. Euro jokes on SotG, comments on french canadians? None of that shit will fly anymore
If Geoff, or Greg or any of the EG boys slip up in the slightest little way reddit is going to blow up like dynamite.
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Great post, respect to EG
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Well thought out and explained. Whenever I've heard the word gay (used as a synonym for stupid or lame) and f----t I've always tried to speak up and and show people that they are wrong to use it, but so many gamers think its okay and try to defend themselves that they aren't promoting anti-gay sentiments, but that the word has a new definition in the gamer context as being "stupid" or "dumb". Let's please fight this. We're all better than this and the community is better than this.
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On March 09 2012 14:09 pugowar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 14:08 Gamegene wrote:He got banned for making aggressive posts on TL. And I guess he should be fired as well, right?
TL doesn't employ IdrA. If you were using proper logic, you'd also notice that this post was January 2010 before SC2, ie before IdrA joined EG.
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That's... over 2 years ago man. Let it go.
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Gah..
As I stated before I never really liked Orb because of his BM and attitude, but I still can't help feeling bad for him.
I feel like a suspension or something along those lines would have been enough.
Sad situation.
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On March 09 2012 14:07 Ghost.573 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 14:04 iloveAthene wrote:On March 09 2012 13:59 MrDudeMan wrote:On March 09 2012 13:42 iloveAthene wrote:The funny thing about the word "nigger" is that it seems to offend white people more than black people. To all the people in support of Alex's view point (and to Alex himself), what are your opinions on black rappers/comedians/people using the word freely and without consequence? Call a black guy "nigger" IRL and be prepared for an assbeating. That's all there is to say about that. They find it very offensive. Now, blacks do call their friends "nigga" sometimes but that word is different. My black friends will say to me "what up my nigga?" and I'll say it to them if I know they're cool with it. But I wouldn't say "my nigga" to a black guy I didn't know. Right, because there's no context there. Its really backwards that people are willing to accept the fact that words can have different meaning depending on context when the situation involves black comedians or rappers using "nigger". But when a white guy uses the word its automatically assumed racist because now we have all seem to forgotten the meaning of context. I agree except for the part about rappers using the word "nigger." They say "nigga" And Orb's context WAS meant to be hurtful to the person he said it to. (granted, the person probably wasn't black) ....now I feel racist for assuming blacks don't play Starcraft The word is regularly said as n----er in many raps. They say it for the most part to call other people the name. It is most definitely used in both ways not just n---a.
Yeah rappers do use nigger sometimes, but its usually used as nigga. I think nigga is preferred more because it flows better and rhymes with more words than nigger. If you think about it nigga is actually a great word for rapping. Because its sort of like a synonym for bro or dude that doesn't sound cheesy as hell.
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On March 09 2012 14:10 10Sievert wrote:
--- Nuked ---
lmao. what does nuclear physics or medicine has ANYTHING to do with how SOCIETIES work?!
jesus.
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It's nothing short of sheer stupidity that EG has had to go to such lengths to say, "hey everyone, we are not racist, look at this huge, politically correct, post!". What Orb did is what plenty of teenagers do on the internet. It is a shame that such prevalent and immature actions devalue the legitimacy of the grand effort to create respect for what we love, Starcraft 2.
People should be ashamed of not waiting a week to give EG time to sort out its business before contacting their sponsors. This has been completely blown out of proportion. What Orb did sucks and we always should strive to create a demeanor that is appealing to the public. We should have and did condemn his behavior and yet we as a community get punished because people have no patience when it comes to justice being served.
And it is indeed punishment that has been dealt out to us all. We have, in this instance, demonstrated to sponsors that there are people who are risks to represent because they are outlandishly immature and raised the question, can organizations like EG control their employees? /vent
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On March 09 2012 14:08 HardlyNever wrote:
I think this was a lose-lose situation no matter what. If they kept Orb on, they would have looked bad. Dropping him entirely feels stupid too. I like EG less (not that I was a huge fan to begin with) because of this. I think some lesser form of punishment would have been more appropriate.
The thing that irks me about this is that the OP comes off like he is actually doing something. Like EG dropping Orb sets some sort of precedent that the community will follow. Like in a year from now your won't be hearing/seeing the exact same thing across the Starcraft community. The problem is Starcraft is part of a larger gaming community, which is awash in this crap. I'm not saying its right, in fact I think its dumb, but it something you learn to just ignore as you get older. This sort of language is found because video games, no matter what anyone wants to say, will always be something for a younger generation, that will never take their words/actions seriously. This sort of language is a correlation, not causation, of the immaturity of the gaming community as a whole. There seems to be confusion between the two.
Dropping Orb does nothing. If you were really under a lot of pressure from sponsors to drop him, then "I get it." You are a business, and you need to do what your sponsors say. But to make some post that puts you on some sort of high horse like you are setting a precedent for the community is bullshit, to me.
You don't think Alex would like if it this actually did do something? Of course he wants to sound like he is doing something -- he wants to actually accomplish something here! This is a wonderful chance to effect a change in the way the community views this sort of behavior. You shouldn't be disappointed with him for trying, even if it probably won't work.
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On March 09 2012 14:09 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 14:03 huameng wrote:On March 09 2012 14:01 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 14:00 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 13:58 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:56 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 09 2012 13:53 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:51 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 13:47 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:39 Nick! wrote:
[quote]
I'm sorry but that is complete shit, for example...if you are having a chat with your boss and you work in an office...say something like ''oh yeah he was acting like a complete faggot/nigger''...he will take it as it is, he will either not mention it all OR
he will say something along the lines of oh i dont appreciate you using that language around me. Example 2 which is closer to what a caster is, Basketball (first sport that came to my head) if the commentators say oh wow kobe's acting like a real nigger/faggot you really think he would be fine with faggot but not nigger? Get your head out EG's ass.
User was temp banned for this post. Let me use a counter- counter-example, a real world example. Way back in beta, Orb was defeatured for saying the word "nigger" while streaming, if I recall correctly. Yet that has never happened for people who've used the word "faggot" to my knowledge, nor do I recall that option ever being discussed. There is a double-standard there. The two words are not equivalent in the public eye. In addition, Orb and Idra are at different levels of being a "public figure." You used the example of a sports broadcaster. Obviously if a sports commentator used either the n-word or f-word, they would be fired immediately. If an NFL player used the word "faggot," what would happen to him? Would he be fired? wait, wait, so you've got a ban hammer, your saying that TL believes the use of and calling people "faggot" is acceptable? Please explain how you came to that conclusion from my post. What about Destiny saying "nigger" and not being de-featured? Not relevant to my argument. I was not trying to make any statements on TL policy. I was only stating that TL has defeatured streamers for one word and has neglected to do so for other words, and that practice reflects the way that the two words are treated in society. Aren't you an admin on TL? What you post does represent policy, just like what Orb said represents EG. Even if I were an admin, and I am not, you still need to explain how my post implies that TL condones the word "faggot." You honestly don't see how your post at least sort of gives off that impression? You say no one has even discussed defeaturing someone for saying "faggot" on their streams. So it would be fair to say that TeamLiquid at least doesn't find "faggot" unacceptable, right? If it were unacceptable, certainly TeamLiquid wouldn't highlight people saying it on their front page. I dunno... imagine I said "Team Liquid has never defeatured someone for flying into a rage and BMing someone really badly." Does that mean TL condones BM, since someone was defeatured for one type of objectionable content but not for the BM?
I guess we'd be getting a much farther between the offensiveness of the terms in that case but yes there is a line... Also I'm not sure a policy is the same as condones but that's something to think about.
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EPT
