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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
I'm disappointed people complained to the sponsors so fast. That, my friends, IS hurting esports. Keep doing that so quickly anytime anything goes wrong and nobody is going to want to get involved with us. Jesus christ guys.
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On March 09 2012 14:07 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 14:02 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 14:01 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 14:00 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 13:58 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:56 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 09 2012 13:53 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:51 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 13:47 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:39 Nick! wrote:
[quote]
I'm sorry but that is complete shit, for example...if you are having a chat with your boss and you work in an office...say something like ''oh yeah he was acting like a complete faggot/nigger''...he will take it as it is, he will either not mention it all OR
he will say something along the lines of oh i dont appreciate you using that language around me. Example 2 which is closer to what a caster is, Basketball (first sport that came to my head) if the commentators say oh wow kobe's acting like a real nigger/faggot you really think he would be fine with faggot but not nigger? Get your head out EG's ass.
User was temp banned for this post. Let me use a counter- counter-example, a real world example. Way back in beta, Orb was defeatured for saying the word "nigger" while streaming, if I recall correctly. Yet that has never happened for people who've used the word "faggot" to my knowledge, nor do I recall that option ever being discussed. There is a double-standard there. The two words are not equivalent in the public eye. In addition, Orb and Idra are at different levels of being a "public figure." You used the example of a sports broadcaster. Obviously if a sports commentator used either the n-word or f-word, they would be fired immediately. If an NFL player used the word "faggot," what would happen to him? Would he be fired? wait, wait, so you've got a ban hammer, your saying that TL believes the use of and calling people "faggot" is acceptable? Please explain how you came to that conclusion from my post. What about Destiny saying "nigger" and not being de-featured? Not relevant to my argument. I was not trying to make any statements on TL policy. I was only stating that TL has defeatured streamers for one word and has neglected to do so for other words, and that practice reflects the way that the two words are treated in society. Aren't you an admin on TL? What you post does represent policy, just like what Orb said represents EG. Even if I were an admin, and I am not, you still need to explain how my post implies that TL condones the word "faggot." http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319018¤tpage=35#700 Hmm, no, there's no set policy about this sort of thing. No one sat down and said "What objectionable content should we defeature for?" As far as I know, only one person has ever been defeatured for objectionable content. Given that, no set policy was really ever needed. Anyway, I wasn't trying to make statements about TL policy, as I've said before. If Orb made the same comments today as a featured streamer, I do not know whether he would be defeatured. The episode where he was previously defeatured was a very long time ago, back in beta.
I think TL staff need to have a discussion and set an official policy then.
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Idra and Huk's streams are filled with misogyny, "racist" remarks, and homophobia. Supposedly they always get chastised...
I think they should both lose their contracts with EG.
Anything less is hypocrisy.
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Great statement. EG is still my favorite team (but TL is a very close second)
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On March 09 2012 14:07 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 14:02 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 14:01 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 14:00 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 13:58 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:56 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 09 2012 13:53 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:51 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 13:47 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:39 Nick! wrote:
[quote]
I'm sorry but that is complete shit, for example...if you are having a chat with your boss and you work in an office...say something like ''oh yeah he was acting like a complete faggot/nigger''...he will take it as it is, he will either not mention it all OR
he will say something along the lines of oh i dont appreciate you using that language around me. Example 2 which is closer to what a caster is, Basketball (first sport that came to my head) if the commentators say oh wow kobe's acting like a real nigger/faggot you really think he would be fine with faggot but not nigger? Get your head out EG's ass.
User was temp banned for this post. Let me use a counter- counter-example, a real world example. Way back in beta, Orb was defeatured for saying the word "nigger" while streaming, if I recall correctly. Yet that has never happened for people who've used the word "faggot" to my knowledge, nor do I recall that option ever being discussed. There is a double-standard there. The two words are not equivalent in the public eye. In addition, Orb and Idra are at different levels of being a "public figure." You used the example of a sports broadcaster. Obviously if a sports commentator used either the n-word or f-word, they would be fired immediately. If an NFL player used the word "faggot," what would happen to him? Would he be fired? wait, wait, so you've got a ban hammer, your saying that TL believes the use of and calling people "faggot" is acceptable? Please explain how you came to that conclusion from my post. What about Destiny saying "nigger" and not being de-featured? Not relevant to my argument. I was not trying to make any statements on TL policy. I was only stating that TL has defeatured streamers for one word and has neglected to do so for other words, and that practice reflects the way that the two words are treated in society. Aren't you an admin on TL? What you post does represent policy, just like what Orb said represents EG. Even if I were an admin, and I am not, you still need to explain how my post implies that TL condones the word "faggot." http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319018¤tpage=35#700 Hmm, no, there's no set policy about this sort of thing. No one sat down and said "What objectionable content should we defeature for?" As far as I know, only one person has ever been defeatured for objectionable content. Given that, no set policy was really ever needed. Anyway, I wasn't trying to make statements about TL policy, as I've said before. If Orb made the same comments today as a featured streamer, I do not know whether he would be defeatured. The episode where he was previously defeatured was a very long time ago, back in beta.
kk, hopefully he'll bounce back.
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I think this was a lose-lose situation no matter what. If they kept Orb on, they would have looked bad. Dropping him entirely feels stupid too. I like EG less (not that I was a huge fan to begin with) because of this. I think some lesser form of punishment would have been more appropriate.
The thing that irks me about this is that the OP comes off like he is actually doing something. Like EG dropping Orb sets some sort of precedent that the community will follow. Like in a year from now your won't be hearing/seeing the exact same thing across the Starcraft community. The problem is Starcraft is part of a larger gaming community, which is awash in this crap. I'm not saying its right, in fact I think its dumb, but it something you learn to just ignore as you get older. This sort of language is found because video games, no matter what anyone wants to say, will always be something for a younger generation, that will never take their words/actions seriously. This sort of language is a correlation, not causation, of the immaturity of the gaming community as a whole. There seems to be confusion between the two.
Dropping Orb does nothing. If you were really under a lot of pressure from sponsors to drop him, then "I get it." You are a business, and you need to do what your sponsors say. But to make some post that puts you on some sort of high horse like you are setting a precedent for the community is bullshit, to me.
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On March 09 2012 14:08 SadSatyr wrote:
Great statement. EG is still my favorite team (but TL is a very close second)
uh oh, temp ban incoming
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He got banned for making aggressive posts on TL.
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Oh and after re-reading I must've read some of the most ignorant stuff ever. Repeating Destiny's views:
Alex believes that "For the record, I do want to point out that I don't think Orb is a racist." So then Alex believes Orb isn't a racist and is punished because he used a word because it offends people just because of the word without context? Not doing something because it offends a group is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've heard. Racism and using the word nigger without the intent of being a racist and as Alex says, using it while not being a racist is unacceptable merely because the word offends?
As destiny stated: "That's the dumbest reason to not do something. I'm sure a mosque being built near 9/11 (World trade center) offended people, so should muslims not exercise their freedom of speech? Religious groups are also offended because of homosexual marriage because it's not what "should happen in some text 2000 years ago? Should gay marriage not be allowed/done just because it offends people?"
I was expecting stronger arguments than: "Oh I know that's not what you mean.. but this word offends people.. so don't use it." from a black studies major.
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On March 09 2012 14:06 Silvertine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:57 Protosnake wrote:On March 09 2012 13:51 Silvertine wrote:
There is no contest, nigger is the far more offensive term. How there are still people who don't understand that is a mystery to me. It's absolutely not. What make you so sure that this is the case is beyond me. You're either not familiar with American culture or the English language. You really shouldn't comment from a place of utter ignorance.
A place from utter ignorance ? Sure.
Bring actual arguments instead of spouting buzzword and trying to look offended. You're just embarrassing yourself.
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I don't condone orbs actions and the fact that he lied to everyone including EG's faces is probably reason enough to boot him. I just didn't think it would happen considering where idra has come from.
was this the best move? maybe not, but was it a good move? i think so.
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Alex's comments on Idra are even more hypocritical... Idra used a slur when contracted by EG, got a stern talking to and kept on his merry way, but Orb uses one long before being an EG employee and is fired. What a joke of an organization
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On March 09 2012 14:08 Gamegene wrote:He got banned for making aggressive posts on TL.
And I guess he should be fired as well, right?
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On March 09 2012 14:03 huameng wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 14:01 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 14:00 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 13:58 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:56 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 09 2012 13:53 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:51 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 13:47 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:39 Nick! wrote:On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not. I'm sorry but that is complete shit, for example...if you are having a chat with your boss and you work in an office...say something like ''oh yeah he was acting like a complete faggot/nigger''...he will take it as it is, he will either not mention it all OR he will say something along the lines of oh i dont appreciate you using that language around me. Example 2 which is closer to what a caster is, Basketball (first sport that came to my head) if the commentators say oh wow kobe's acting like a real nigger/faggot you really think he would be fine with faggot but not nigger? Get your head out EG's ass. User was temp banned for this post. Let me use a counter- counter-example, a real world example. Way back in beta, Orb was defeatured for saying the word "nigger" while streaming, if I recall correctly. Yet that has never happened for people who've used the word "faggot" to my knowledge, nor do I recall that option ever being discussed. There is a double-standard there. The two words are not equivalent in the public eye. In addition, Orb and Idra are at different levels of being a "public figure." You used the example of a sports broadcaster. Obviously if a sports commentator used either the n-word or f-word, they would be fired immediately. If an NFL player used the word "faggot," what would happen to him? Would he be fired? wait, wait, so you've got a ban hammer, your saying that TL believes the use of and calling people "faggot" is acceptable? Please explain how you came to that conclusion from my post. What about Destiny saying "nigger" and not being de-featured? Not relevant to my argument. I was not trying to make any statements on TL policy. I was only stating that TL has defeatured streamers for one word and has neglected to do so for other words, and that practice reflects the way that the two words are treated in society. Aren't you an admin on TL? What you post does represent policy, just like what Orb said represents EG. Even if I were an admin, and I am not, you still need to explain how my post implies that TL condones the word "faggot." You honestly don't see how your post at least sort of gives off that impression? You say no one has even discussed defeaturing someone for saying "faggot" on their streams. So it would be fair to say that TeamLiquid at least doesn't find "faggot" unacceptable, right? If it were unacceptable, certainly TeamLiquid wouldn't highlight people saying it on their front page.
I dunno... imagine I said "Team Liquid has never defeatured someone for flying into a rage and BMing someone really badly." Does that mean TL condones BM, since someone was defeatured for one type of objectionable content but not for the BM?
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On March 09 2012 14:08 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 14:07 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 14:02 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 14:01 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 14:00 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 13:58 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:56 knOxStarcraft wrote:On March 09 2012 13:53 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:51 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 13:47 motbob wrote:
[quote]
Let me use a counter- counter-example, a real world example. Way back in beta, Orb was defeatured for saying the word "nigger" while streaming, if I recall correctly. Yet that has never happened for people who've used the word "faggot" to my knowledge, nor do I recall that option ever being discussed. There is a double-standard there. The two words are not equivalent in the public eye.
In addition, Orb and Idra are at different levels of being a "public figure." You used the example of a sports broadcaster. Obviously if a sports commentator used either the n-word or f-word, they would be fired immediately. If an NFL player used the word "faggot," what would happen to him? Would he be fired? wait, wait, so you've got a ban hammer, your saying that TL believes the use of and calling people "faggot" is acceptable? Please explain how you came to that conclusion from my post. What about Destiny saying "nigger" and not being de-featured? Not relevant to my argument. I was not trying to make any statements on TL policy. I was only stating that TL has defeatured streamers for one word and has neglected to do so for other words, and that practice reflects the way that the two words are treated in society. Aren't you an admin on TL? What you post does represent policy, just like what Orb said represents EG. Even if I were an admin, and I am not, you still need to explain how my post implies that TL condones the word "faggot." http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319018¤tpage=35#700 Hmm, no, there's no set policy about this sort of thing. No one sat down and said "What objectionable content should we defeature for?" As far as I know, only one person has ever been defeatured for objectionable content. Given that, no set policy was really ever needed. Anyway, I wasn't trying to make statements about TL policy, as I've said before. If Orb made the same comments today as a featured streamer, I do not know whether he would be defeatured. The episode where he was previously defeatured was a very long time ago, back in beta. I think TL staff need to have a discussion and set an official policy then.
I think that should happen when a controversy relevant to featured streamers happens.
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On March 09 2012 14:08 bobwhiz wrote:
Idra and Huk's streams are filled with misogyny, "racist" remarks, and homophobia. Supposedly they always get chastised...
I think they should both lose their contracts with EG.
Anything less is hypocrisy.
This is wrong. HuK and IdrA never commentate. You are just being obnoxious for the sake of it.
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So much respect for Alex and EG right now. Maybe rehire Axslav and we call it a day?
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On March 09 2012 14:04 kochanfe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:55 Liquid`NonY wrote:
I respect this decision and reasoning. I share pretty much every opinion expressed by Alex in this statement. WOW, you too Tyler, that's too bad. I guess not everyone is as intelligent as they appear.
You sure showed him. You sure showed him.
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EPT
