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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 09 2012 13:49 MrDudeMan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:46 Zzoram wrote:On March 09 2012 13:42 Chill wrote:
Don't worry everyone, in 2 days everyone will forget about this and move on to the next stupid drama. Jesus. I was actually hoping that the community would grow up after this, but you're probably right. The anonymity of the Internet brings out the worst in people, and it's about time that we stop tolerating it. This incident probably won't fix the community overnight, but I've always felt the racist/homophobic/sexist/generally disrespectful part of gaming culture that refuses to go away is the single biggest limiting factor on the growth of professional gaming. Really, I think trash talking has had the opposite impact of what you think on the gaming community. The fact that you can get into a game, be as competitive as you want, and even trash talk has made it an outlet for a large number of people. This should be pretty obvious as a large part of the competitive gaming culture trash talks (yes this includes prejudice terms).
You can use trash talk without racist/homophobic/sexist words.
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On March 09 2012 13:51 Thorantham wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:47 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:39 Nick! wrote:On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not. I'm sorry but that is complete shit, for example...if you are having a chat with your boss and you work in an office...say something like ''oh yeah he was acting like a complete faggot/nigger''...he will take it as it is, he will either not mention it all OR he will say something along the lines of oh i dont appreciate you using that language around me. Example 2 which is closer to what a caster is, Basketball (first sport that came to my head) if the commentators say oh wow kobe's acting like a real nigger/faggot you really think he would be fine with faggot but not nigger? Get your head out EG's ass. User was temp banned for this post. Let me use a counter- counter-example, a real world example. Way back in beta, Orb was defeatured for saying the word "nigger" while streaming, if I recall correctly. Yet that has never happened for people who've used the word "faggot" to my knowledge, nor do I recall that option ever being discussed. There is a double-standard there. The two words are not equivalent in the public eye. In addition, Orb and Idra are at different levels of being a "public figure." You used the example of a sports broadcaster. Obviously if a sports commentator used either the n-word or f-word, they would be fired immediately. If an NFL player used the word "faggot," what would happen to him? Would he be fired? wait, wait, so you've got a ban hammer, your saying that TL believes the use of and calling people "faggot" is acceptable?
No, that's not what he said at all. Read it again and concentrate really hard.
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On March 09 2012 13:47 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:40 RJGooner wrote:On March 09 2012 13:34 Chill wrote:
Ugh. My head is just empty. What a dumb situation. Could you elaborate a bit more Chill? I'd be interested to hear your views on the situation. It's just dumb. Orb shouldn't be raging and using slurs. Orb shouldn't have said anything and definitely shouldn't have lied. EG also shouldn't have done anything. Two days later, everyone would have forgotten. The people who declared they were boycotting EG would likely have kept doing what they were doing previous to this situation. Orb deserved a public shaming and a stern talking to from EG. Not this. And I think above all, people don't realize how much they can shape someone's life. The people who organized this situation are now going to keep doing what they're doing while Orb tries to rearrange his real life. I appreciate that he should have to take responsibility for his actions, but he didn't deserve this. As I've said before - keep burning your volunteers and soon you're going to find that you don't have any more.
I agree 100%...I can't believe his whole life was ruined, or at least setback so dramatically, because of this.
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Yeah so apparently alexander garfield is actually sundance in disguise
+ Show Spoiler +
Furthermore, I also hope orb isnt exiled from the community, not thati loved hsi casting or anything, its just what he did is an easy rut to fall into.
Also i feel for your sponsors. Hopefully they see this positively, not negatively, in the long run.
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On March 09 2012 13:51 Gheed wrote:
I think this whole thing is retarded, but whatever. Orb's casting was kind of annoying anyway. I'll just return to the ladder where I routinely get called faggot and nigger and continue to not care.
I don't care what you do just keep dem blogs coming.
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On March 09 2012 13:51 Thorantham wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:47 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:39 Nick! wrote:On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not. I'm sorry but that is complete shit, for example...if you are having a chat with your boss and you work in an office...say something like ''oh yeah he was acting like a complete faggot/nigger''...he will take it as it is, he will either not mention it all OR he will say something along the lines of oh i dont appreciate you using that language around me. Example 2 which is closer to what a caster is, Basketball (first sport that came to my head) if the commentators say oh wow kobe's acting like a real nigger/faggot you really think he would be fine with faggot but not nigger? Get your head out EG's ass. User was temp banned for this post. Let me use a counter- counter-example, a real world example. Way back in beta, Orb was defeatured for saying the word "nigger" while streaming, if I recall correctly. Yet that has never happened for people who've used the word "faggot" to my knowledge, nor do I recall that option ever being discussed. There is a double-standard there. The two words are not equivalent in the public eye. In addition, Orb and Idra are at different levels of being a "public figure." You used the example of a sports broadcaster. Obviously if a sports commentator used either the n-word or f-word, they would be fired immediately. If an NFL player used the word "faggot," what would happen to him? Would he be fired? wait, wait, so you've got a ban hammer, your saying that TL believes the use of and calling people "faggot" is acceptable?
he's telling you how the world works not what he thinks.
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That really sucks... How the hell are random internet people able to ruin someone's life? x.x
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On March 09 2012 13:52 matiK23 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:47 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 13:46 Silvertine wrote:On March 09 2012 13:45 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 13:43 Razuik wrote:On March 09 2012 13:39 Nick! wrote:On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not. I'm sorry but that is complete shit, for example...if you are having a chat with your boss and you work in an office...say something like ''oh yeah he was acting like a complete faggot/nigger''...he will take it as it is, he will either not mention it all OR he will say something along the lines of oh i dont appreciate you using that language around me. Example 2 which is closer to what a caster is, Basketball (first sport that came to my head) if the commentators say oh wow kobe's acting like a real nigger/faggot you really think he would be fine with faggot but not nigger? Get your head out EG's ass. User was temp banned for this post. The N----- has a lot more history to it than the word F----- I doubt it has, pretty sure people were burning gays before the word nigger ever came into existence. Learn to read. He said the word, not homophobia altogether. learn history faggots were the bundle of sticks used to burn people. Yea to burn witches, and people accused of being gay. Oh, and watching sitcoms isn't really learning history.
...The word is used in either the The Hobbit or LotR (can't remember right now--maybe both) to describe a bundle of wood. Obviously, no one really uses it that way these days.
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On March 09 2012 13:51 Quotidian wrote:
I don't think that's the case. Black people are able to understand context just like everybody else. If a white person calls a black person a nigger and both of them understand the context is friendly and meant as a joke, it's very unlikely to cause any kind of negative confrontation.
There was nothing friendly about the way orb said it.
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it was the right decision by eg but i can't help put feel bad for orb losing such a great opportunity and basically having his reputation destroyed over stupid ladder rage. too bad 
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This is really disturbing. Where was the research on EG's part, honestly it was pretty common knowledge that orb had these tendencies (being defeatured). This is just shameful to give orb his dream job to just yank it away because they didn't do what almost all employers do (background check).
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On March 09 2012 13:53 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:51 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 13:47 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:39 Nick! wrote:On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not. I'm sorry but that is complete shit, for example...if you are having a chat with your boss and you work in an office...say something like ''oh yeah he was acting like a complete faggot/nigger''...he will take it as it is, he will either not mention it all OR he will say something along the lines of oh i dont appreciate you using that language around me. Example 2 which is closer to what a caster is, Basketball (first sport that came to my head) if the commentators say oh wow kobe's acting like a real nigger/faggot you really think he would be fine with faggot but not nigger? Get your head out EG's ass. User was temp banned for this post. Let me use a counter- counter-example, a real world example. Way back in beta, Orb was defeatured for saying the word "nigger" while streaming, if I recall correctly. Yet that has never happened for people who've used the word "faggot" to my knowledge, nor do I recall that option ever being discussed. There is a double-standard there. The two words are not equivalent in the public eye. In addition, Orb and Idra are at different levels of being a "public figure." You used the example of a sports broadcaster. Obviously if a sports commentator used either the n-word or f-word, they would be fired immediately. If an NFL player used the word "faggot," what would happen to him? Would he be fired? wait, wait, so you've got a ban hammer, your saying that TL believes the use of and calling people "faggot" is acceptable? Please explain how you came to that conclusion from my post.
What about Destiny saying "nigger" and not being de-featured?
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On March 09 2012 13:50 WeavingHarp9 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:31 Utinni wrote:
Name any professional sporting event where it is allowed for a sports caster or reporter to say such hateful terms or anything similar. Idra does not have free reign to do what he wants, Alex hhas openingly been against idra's choice of words and apparently has it under control. Well if youre gonna look at it that way Im sure plenty of casters/reports have used a ton of foul language outside of work(which is what orb did) Anyways Im taking no stand in this as I think both sides are overreacting, but that might just be me that like too have leeway on things. and yes, I understand that there's alot of baggage to the word but there's alot of words with alot of baggage out there as well for other races etc and you still find n**** to be way over the top from the rest? I mean, you either give everyone leeway or its all or nothing. I find it a bit iffy when you fire orb for 1 misminor when idra have repeatedly done it over and over again in the past, and that is one of the reasons he got such a big fanbase, they like his attitude, and obviously you wont fire him when he brings you more money than you lose from keeping him, if that makes any sense. But then again, I guess not even EG can say no to one of the biggest communities out there backing you up either, having all the pressure about firing him for saying a word(i believe everyone have said or thought at least once, or something equally bad) but yeah, everyone is just better then the one making the error. Bottomline: Dont throw rocks in glasshouses. p.s. faggot is just as fucking bad, maybe not to you, but to a hell of a lot of people out there that have been chased and murdered for being a homosexual. yet you let that slide with a little warning? over and over and over again until he finally stopped. double standards TT
One, there is a big difference in what orb has said and 'most' of what idra has said. Citing idra's quantity of BM isn't really valid if most of it is based off of general antagonism and not racism. (note: i'm not saying idra hasn't also said atrocious things)
Two, Orb repeatedly lying about it to the community and management is a big part of this. If EG didn't do something, they'd look like fools and would have just as many people jumping down their throats for not getting rid of him.
EG's hands were tied here. Though the comedy of the situation surely must be noted. The ceo of the organization he just signed to happens to have a degree in black studies and social justice? baaaaaaad luck.
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On March 09 2012 13:53 pugowar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:47 Chill wrote:On March 09 2012 13:40 RJGooner wrote:On March 09 2012 13:34 Chill wrote:
Ugh. My head is just empty. What a dumb situation. Could you elaborate a bit more Chill? I'd be interested to hear your views on the situation. It's just dumb. Orb shouldn't be raging and using slurs. Orb shouldn't have said anything and definitely shouldn't have lied. EG also shouldn't have done anything. Two days later, everyone would have forgotten. The people who declared they were boycotting EG would likely have kept doing what they were doing previous to this situation. Orb deserved a public shaming and a stern talking to from EG. Not this. And I think above all, people don't realize how much they can shape someone's life. The people who organized this situation are now going to keep doing what they're doing while Orb tries to rearrange his real life. I appreciate that he should have to take responsibility for his actions, but he didn't deserve this. As I've said before - keep burning your volunteers and soon you're going to find that you don't have any more. I agree 100%...I can't believe his whole life was ruined, or at least setback so dramatically, because of this.
Whole life? Really? Whos being dramatic here? The ironic part is that, in the real world--you know the one where you actually interact with people--nobody knows that he raged "nigger" on the internet. I'm sure he'll find work and this won't taint his resume.
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lol
much ado about very little.
Like he said in his defense, it was obviously an entirely interchangeable expletive, so big deal which one he chose. A 'my bad, yo, won't happen again' should be more than enough.
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On March 09 2012 13:54 TheMute wrote:
That really sucks... How the hell are random internet people able to ruin someone's life? x.x
r/starcraft witchhunts are notorious for picking people of this community apart for random stupid shit.
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"I believe homophobic slurs (faggot) shouldn't be anymore exceptable than racial slurs!" Actions speak louder than words...
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On March 09 2012 12:51 Rorschach wrote:
I can't believe EG caved to the vocal few in regards to this decision.
Extremely hypocritical to see their star player calling other players a faggot in broadcasted matches and they just let is slide.
Personally I will be contacting EG's sponsors to notify them I do not support them because of how they handled this situation.....
I agree with you. While I'm not a fan of Orb, they're blowing a minuscule problem out of proportion. The real issue in my opinion is the lying to his managers.
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Did we seriously just lose one of the nicest personalities in the scene because you idiots couldn't stop crying? I'm all for action when the time is right like against clearly hateful comments, Limbaugh, but when someone is just obviously cursing someone out it has nothing to do with race. I think we've all been there and I dare you to say you havent, and if so, you're telling me you've always been perfect. We start from a place of weakness in our lives and build our selves up to something respectable. Orb is someone I respect and now you've just crucified a man who did not deserve it. Attacking EG and going after their sponsors? Seems like you hurt the scene so much more than he ever could with that blind activism nonsense you love being "a part of". Like it makes you anything. Reminds me of all the idiot kids talking about Kony and yet they don't do a shred of research on the matter. Pathetic.
Sorry orb. I feel for ya.
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On March 09 2012 13:53 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 13:51 Thorantham wrote:On March 09 2012 13:47 motbob wrote:On March 09 2012 13:39 Nick! wrote:On March 09 2012 13:36 motbob wrote:
How are the people in this thread comparing Idra's profanity to Orb's? How are the two situations even remotely the same? The word "nigger" is an automatic career-ender for a public figure in almost all situations of use. The word "faggot" is not. I'm sorry but that is complete shit, for example...if you are having a chat with your boss and you work in an office...say something like ''oh yeah he was acting like a complete faggot/nigger''...he will take it as it is, he will either not mention it all OR he will say something along the lines of oh i dont appreciate you using that language around me. Example 2 which is closer to what a caster is, Basketball (first sport that came to my head) if the commentators say oh wow kobe's acting like a real nigger/faggot you really think he would be fine with faggot but not nigger? Get your head out EG's ass. User was temp banned for this post. Let me use a counter- counter-example, a real world example. Way back in beta, Orb was defeatured for saying the word "nigger" while streaming, if I recall correctly. Yet that has never happened for people who've used the word "faggot" to my knowledge, nor do I recall that option ever being discussed. There is a double-standard there. The two words are not equivalent in the public eye. In addition, Orb and Idra are at different levels of being a "public figure." You used the example of a sports broadcaster. Obviously if a sports commentator used either the n-word or f-word, they would be fired immediately. If an NFL player used the word "faggot," what would happen to him? Would he be fired? wait, wait, so you've got a ban hammer, your saying that TL believes the use of and calling people "faggot" is acceptable? Please explain how you came to that conclusion from my post.
"Way back in beta, Orb was defeatured for saying the word "nigger" while streaming, if I recall correctly. Yet that has never happened for people who've used the word "faggot" to my knowledge, nor do I recall that option ever being discussed"
It seems very clear from those two sentences that TL has a policy against "nigger" but not "faggot", right?
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EPT
