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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 11 2012 08:01 reapsen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 07:46 Kevan wrote:On March 11 2012 07:29 reapsen wrote:On March 11 2012 07:18 Kevan wrote:On March 11 2012 06:53 Longshank wrote:Yeah I saw that earlier. Firing orb was an understandable and correct decision but this goes to show that EG are a bunch of fucking hypocrits. They want to be the bad-ass Idra-doesntgiveashit-team but when someone comes along with actual bad manners they wet their panties. EG, do you love bad manners or not? You're as genuine as fucking Justin B. There is a difference between bad manner and racist/sexist/homophobic comments. One of them is bad for everyone involved. And what exactly would that difference be? If we talk Venn Diagrams and we have a big circle which is "Bad Manner", i understand that you argue that "racist/sexist/homophobic comments" are not part of that circle? Really? Please enlighten me with your wisdom then... Because if they were part of "Bad Manner" (which i would say so), then stating that "I <3 Bad Manner" INCLUDES that kind of stuff. Also i would love, if you pm me a list of terms that are then part of the "funny bad manner" and the "serious bad manner". Where would you put "retard" for example? It is ironic that that they are selling that shirt because Orb was obviously BM but being bad mannered without saying racist/sexist/homophobic stuff will not really offend anyone and then they don't risk losing fans, reputation(as much) and sponsors. I think that what Orb said might have been intended as BM and not as anything racist but that will not stop people from getting upset about it. Nobody is going to care if someone calls someone a retard in an online game for example. tl;dr: the difference is what offends and upsets people and what doesn't. Not sure if trolling or serious, to be honest. How can you even judge what offends people? How is "nigger" more offensive than "retard".
Not sure if trolling or serious, to be honest.
On March 11 2012 08:04 reapsen wrote:
How about reading my entire post, bro?
What I said applies to your entire post. "Nigger" isn't more offensive to people globally than "retard" but it certainly is in this part of the world and in this community. If Orb would have said "retard" instead of "nigger" it would not have been as big of a deal.
Maybe you just don't realize this because "retard" is a word that you don't want people to throw around as much because you feel it offends you.
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How about reading my entire post, bro?
Edit: Guess there is no value in beeing right on the internet. But i can't say it doesn't gives me some satisfaction 
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for me thats overreacting and why are there stupid fags in the community who start pulling out old replays from orb where he bm's and uses a swear that isnt "accepted" allthough he didnt rl meant what he said, if he said it in a bad way towards a black person it would be understandable but as he toldn his apology this could have been any other word.
You are an idiot. You read through pages of opinions centred on the use and the impact of degrading name calling, and the best argument your tiny little brain comes up with is to call other members of the community "fags". What a troll.
Also, I see a lot of people trying to downplay Idra's behaviour compared to Orb's, but I think the question you must ask yourself is whether or not you honestly think that Idra would get insta-kicked if he was found to have said the word nigger in a couple ladder games a few months ago. In my opinion the answer is pretty obvious and I think that Orb got the boot mainly because he's less valuable to EG than Idra is (i.e. damage control rather than true devotion to ethical behaviour).
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Hi,
I do agree that firing ORB's was over the top. Matter of a fact, EG made a rush decision. Some may call it a mistake. But you got to understand that people were pressuring their sponsors. I really do not know if EG had any alternative.
Now onto ORB's mistake. Yes he made a mistake a while ago. Certainly before EG hired him. I must confess while I am fairly mannered person, I did drop my fair share of BM (though none in game, as I am not involved enough to get mad). I do not think he should had been crucified for it.
I would have tried to go about the problem differently - immediate suspension of ORB for a week or two followed by public on streamed apology with his explanation. CEO of EG mentions on same stream that this behavior is not tolerated by EG, but ultimately everyone makes mistakes. Yet, because EG really depends on sponsors to exist it would be up to them to decide fate of ORB. Next contact sponsors and ask them for guidance.
I do understand EG's rash actions. While someone mentioned that EG bowed to demands to public and compared it to the government. There is quite a large difference there is no alternative to government, so even if a lot of people are unhappy government will stay as long as they are not doing abysmal job. EG is not government, if people do not like what they are doing, they can and will go to the other teams.
Now let's say worst scenario. EG CEO sees that only 10-20 people actually are trying to sack ORB and does nothing, except, perchance apology. Possibly all 20 write letters to Intel. Who again does nothing. So they coordinate and send letters to the news agencies "Intel support racism". Story like that will be a guaranteed feature on the major TV network. Intel makes apologies, profits drop, EG either outright dies or is heavily crippled as nearly all sponsors drop them.
I do not know how likely above scenario is, but even if it is only 1% as a CEO of EG can you afford the risk?.
Now for the tshirt. It is not meant to convey that EG tolerates BM. What it is alluding to is Idra's and Huk's infamous entertaining antics (which they do not do too much anymore, except leaving without GG) along with the fact that name of the team is EVIL Geniuses. Definitely not meant to send a message that verbally abusing opponent is OK.
TL:DR - world is unfair what happened is fair neither to EG nor to ORB. I really wish ORB and EG best of luck.
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To me this all sounds like Internet shitstorming. EG had to fire Orb, because many bored people got on their Computers telling sponsors EG would support a racist. Which orb is not. Which is known by EG.
Seriously if those Kendon Williams are the kind of people representing the people behind this "Orb-GTFO" campaign, i really dont get it.
Every tweet of him or her is insulting, he/she even feels offended by SlayerS_Jessica´s status updates.
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This whole event is depressing. Huge mistake to fire him. Obviously a reaction to all the hysteria and wasnt thought out. If we did this to everybody... Terrible.
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People, why are you still discussing this issue, Orb will not go back to EG. Independently the fact that he did something right or wrong.
All of you who want Orb get back into his normal caster things, then drop this. This is just hurting him more than helping him.
Shit happens, you live to fight another day.
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EG dropped him. Business decision, racism was bad pr, perfectly fine decision.
If orb (or destiny) want to spurt racist comments on their own streams, whatever. However, get more mainstream/represent a large company that has no tolerance for racism and then things don't work out.
People need to see this from their own perspective. If my boss found out I spewed "niggers" when I played starcraft, odds are I would get fired.
Also grinds my gears that people are defending the use of the n-word. Really?
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I think this thread should be closed.
You people are complaining about a word being used and I have seen it in at least 60% of the posts.
This is ridiculous
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On March 11 2012 11:24 101toss wrote:
EG dropped him. Business decision, racism was bad pr, perfectly fine decision.
If orb (or destiny) want to spurt racist comments on their own streams, whatever. However, get more mainstream/represent a large company that has no tolerance for racism and then things don't work out.
People need to see this from their own perspective. If my boss found out I spewed "niggers" when I played starcraft, odds are I would get fired.
Also grinds my gears that people are defending the use of the n-word. Really?
I agree.
I'm patiently waiting for this thread to get closed.
Orb did something really stupid - then he lied about it - then he got caught - then he was punished (fired)
The End!
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Blizzard should just remove the ability to turn off the mature language filter in the game. That way, if you really want your opponents to see you're calling them various slurs, you'd have to bypass the filter, which shows premeditation, if nothing else.
But, seriously, this has been a good read. Especially all the various takes on the term 'bad mannered'. I think my favorite is the definition given by someone early in the thread where it's argued that being bad mannered is when you insult someone in a way that isn't really insulting.
My opinion: Overreaction and hypocrisy in an obvious case of damage control. EG is okay with BM as long as it's their top players doing it. Yes, yes, I read the tweet where Alex said that IdrA gets a call every time he calls someone a fag on his stream, but IdrA still has a job, doesn't he?
EG clearly draws the line at racial slurs, but there shouldn't be a line in the first place. Either you allow BM as a whole, including racial slurs, sexual slurs and other swear words, or you don't. Trying to put certain words on pedestals due to a country's history is just silly. Firing someone for violating a seemingly unwritten policy is just stupid. Especially when that policy was violated before that someone was even a part of the company.
Looking forward to the day where EG will rewrite the policy to include sexual slurs. They'd have to fire the majority of their players. Good times.
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Geez you can tell he is an former Arts Student. Learn to get to the point, reference the background knowledge and get on with it. Having said that well written and informative, just could have been shorter.
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its a perfectly fine decision to fire orb in light of the drama that happened after
but why did orb get such a severe punishment whereas idra got off relatively scottfree?
i think pretty much come down to a combination of white guilt and idra being worth alot more than orb
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Orb lied to Alex about not being on his account, that's why he's fired.
I have no idea why you are focusing on IdrA so much. IdrA has never called anyone a faggot on the stream this entire last year.
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On March 11 2012 11:52 Jinsho wrote:
Orb lied to Alex about not being on his account, that's why he's fired.
I have no idea why you are focusing on IdrA so much. IdrA has never called anyone a faggot on the stream this entire last year.
Actually the EG boss specifically said on his twitter that he was fired for the slur and not for the lie. And I bet that if I was anal retentive enough I could find you clips of Idra calling ppl faggots on his stream as early as 6 months ago.
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Just wanted to say that the OP was very well thought out and presented. I for one will be emailing all of EG's sponsors.
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On March 11 2012 12:36 Perseverance wrote:
Just wanted to say that the OP was very well thought out and presented. I for one will be emailing all of EG's sponsors.
Obeys on command, that's just sweet.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 11 2012 11:24 101toss wrote:
EG dropped him. Business decision, racism was bad pr, perfectly fine decision.
If orb (or destiny) want to spurt racist comments on their own streams, whatever. However, get more mainstream/represent a large company that has no tolerance for racism and then things don't work out.
People need to see this from their own perspective. If my boss found out I spewed "niggers" when I played starcraft, odds are I would get fired.
Also grinds my gears that people are defending the use of the n-word. Really?
This guy gets it.
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Alex's credentials do more to indicate his bias than support his actions. It's clear to me that EG needed to take action against orb, but the justification is silly. Alex goes for a moral highground that's far more subjective than he believes. I felt like I was reading straight out of a sociology text, and I seriously don't buy into all that; it's all incredibly opinionated. It's clear what Alex's values are, but we don't all necessarily share them and I don't particularly like that they were perhaps influential, despite that orb probably had to go simply for PR reasons.
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Typical people who are scared of the word "nigger". You're all just afraid of black people, being called a racist, etc. That's all this is, grow some balls it's just a word.
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