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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038 Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST | ||
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houseurmusic
United States544 Posts
On March 11 2012 06:30 reapsen wrote: Has anyone seen that EG is selling this Shirt: ![[image loading]](http://splitreason.com/Product_Images/149b7d6f271c.jpg) Here is the link: http://splitreason.com/product/eg/1161 Now THAT is what i call irony!!! LOL | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On March 11 2012 06:30 reapsen wrote: Has anyone seen that EG is selling this Shirt: Here is the link: http://splitreason.com/product/eg/1161 Now THAT is what i call irony!!! Yeah I saw that earlier. Firing orb was an understandable and correct decision but this goes to show that EG are a bunch of fucking hypocrits. They want to be the bad-ass Idra-doesntgiveashit-team but when someone comes along with actual bad manners they wet their panties. EG, do you love bad manners or not? You're as genuine as fucking Justin B. | ||
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Supercilium
Sweden308 Posts
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Deadlift
United States358 Posts
I can see it now... Lawyer: How can I help you today? Orb: My employer fired me for an unfair reason. Lawyer: And that reason was? Orb: I repeatedly called someone the n word when I got mad. Lawyer: Sounds like a slam dunk case to me! | ||
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CarlosOmse
Germany507 Posts
Within all the jazz of staying serious and beeing professional they overextend a little with things like this imo they are treating him for having a bad language not for being a racisct or something a long that line and i think evryone can understand that to certain extend User was warned for this post | ||
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Vei
United States2845 Posts
However, with that said these are the two points I disagree with: - The whole n------ being super offensive. No, it's just a word and very few educated people from our generation are that racist. He just said it because it's an offensive word (like cunt, or faggot, in that it both sounds harsh and is perceived culturally as harsh, making it a viable tool to express extreme rage with). - Him saying that anything you said in the past can be used against you. wtf? then kick out IdrA -- oh wait he's too valuable. the hypocrisy honestly makes me a little mad. you just can't do that, that's unreasonable. what if he had a history of raging (as 95% of sc2's pro gaming population surely does), but manages to temper it once he's in the spotlight? should he still be punished? no. bonus reason: - I just was incredibly off-put by the whole tirade on "i'm not black but i'm a black-studies major and blah blah n------ is the most offensive word in the world and i have strong feelings on who should and should not be able to say n----a." there are so many things that disgust me with that, ugh. words should be able to be used by ANYONE, or else you are creating racial differences by allowing one race to say something and another to not. race/racism can be remembered, but it shouldn't be made to be such an obscene/taboo thing the way he talks about it. that's what PERPETUATES racism and things like black history month thru "white guilt" (for the record if it matters my heritage is somewhere in Asia), which intelligent prominent blacks like Morgan Freeman have publicly loathed and decried. racism was a real problem, it's less of a problem now. stuff like The Boondocks celebrates the issue with great class/humor/approachability -- I guarantee you nobody who enjoys that show actually hates black people. Stuff like Alex's paragraph just makes race and n------ and nigga seem like such big deals that it's only going to perpetuate this bullshit for more and more generations, rather than the way our youth jokes about it and white kids and asian kids say 'nigga' in front of their black friends and everyone gets along because nobody is raised by racist parents in the 60s growing up in segregation and being taught to hate blacks I'm not sure if I will contact their sponsors, but if I do it will simply be to tell them that I still support them (the sponsors) for all they have done for ESPORTS, the same as I have ever since I found out they did, but that I no longer support EG and it would make me happy to see them support another team (which really isn't the complete truth because I want to see my main man IdrA do well). yep. | ||
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On March 11 2012 06:53 Longshank wrote: Yeah I saw that earlier. Firing orb was an understandable and correct decision but this goes to show that EG are a bunch of fucking hypocrits. They want to be the bad-ass Idra-doesntgiveashit-team but when someone comes along with actual bad manners they wet their panties. EG, do you love bad manners or not? You're as genuine as fucking Justin B. ...what? What Orb did doesn't really have something to do with BM. If there wouldn't be such a huge backlash from the community, they probably would have wanted to keep Orb and just punish him a little. But guess what, dramaseeking people complained to the sponsors (seriously???). So if you want to look for the responsable guy, who made EG kick Orb, you only have to look in the mirror (i mean, how many pages has this thread???) | ||
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Desirous
Canada95 Posts
FYI, the decision to fire Orb was your organizations failure to see that the demands given were unfair, illogical, and just out right stupid. Imagine if we demanded that our governments abolished taxation, ROFL. Because in this case, you just abolished taxes for the sake of keeping stupid people happy. | ||
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aristarchus
United States652 Posts
On March 11 2012 06:53 Longshank wrote: Yeah I saw that earlier. Firing orb was an understandable and correct decision but this goes to show that EG are a bunch of fucking hypocrits. They want to be the bad-ass Idra-doesntgiveashit-team but when someone comes along with actual bad manners they wet their panties. EG, do you love bad manners or not? You're as genuine as fucking Justin B. Being ok with rudeness but not ok with racism is hypocritical? The problem with what Orb said was not just that it was rude. | ||
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TheHova
United Kingdom2612 Posts
On March 11 2012 07:13 Desirous wrote: Considering the "context" regarding the situation happens to be your life story, or part of it at least, I can't help but try and look at your behavior psychologically. Are you not satisfied with being a CEO of a brand name multi-gaming team? Because it seems any time drama occurs, you give these long, self-indulgent speeches about how holier-than-thou you are as if you missed out on some great calling. So either you find your current place in the world not very fulfilling, or you have some major character flaws that probably should have been worked out while studying human behavior. FYI, the decision to fire Orb was your organizations failure to see that the demands given were unfair, illogical, and just out right stupid. Imagine if we demanded that our governments abolished taxation, ROFL. Because in this case, you just abolished taxes for the sake of keeping stupid people happy. In all honesty, you are the one that sounds like he needs psychological help. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 11 2012 06:53 Longshank wrote: Yeah I saw that earlier. Firing orb was an understandable and correct decision but this goes to show that EG are a bunch of fucking hypocrits. They want to be the bad-ass Idra-doesntgiveashit-team but when someone comes along with actual bad manners they wet their panties. EG, do you love bad manners or not? You're as genuine as fucking Justin B. So 'I "heart" BM' = I call my enemies niggers? You silly kids and your useless pseudo-integrity! | ||
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Kevan
Sweden2303 Posts
On March 11 2012 06:53 Longshank wrote: Yeah I saw that earlier. Firing orb was an understandable and correct decision but this goes to show that EG are a bunch of fucking hypocrits. They want to be the bad-ass Idra-doesntgiveashit-team but when someone comes along with actual bad manners they wet their panties. EG, do you love bad manners or not? You're as genuine as fucking Justin B. There is a difference between bad manner and racist/sexist/homophobic comments. One of them is bad for everyone involved. | ||
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monitor
United States2408 Posts
On March 11 2012 07:18 Defacer wrote: So 'I "heart" BM' = I call my enemies niggers? You silly kids and your useless pseudo-integrity! Saying "I <3 Bad manners" means you like (love) people who aren't polite, don't interact in a respectful way, and are literally lacking any manners. So in my opinion calling someone nigger or faggot or retard fits perfectly into that. Orb was being BM in that game - he wasn't being racist. The words nigger and faggot have morphed over time to have different and watered-down meanings compared to what they meant 20+ years ago. I certainly do not support calling somebody faggot or nigger (never have, never will), but I don't believe Orb's punishment was fair or equal treatment with the rest of EG's players. The shirt is just irony that they fired somebody for BMing. [edit] Assuming everybody who you think doesn't have integrity is a "silly kid" is genuinely insulting because it isn't just raging at a game on ladder. | ||
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reapsen
Germany559 Posts
On March 11 2012 07:18 Kevan wrote: There is a difference between bad manner and racist/sexist/homophobic comments. One of them is bad for everyone involved. And what exactly would that difference be? If we talk Venn Diagrams and we have a big circle which is "Bad Manner", i understand that you argue that "racist/sexist/homophobic comments" are not part of that circle? Really? Please enlighten me with your wisdom then... Because if they were part of "Bad Manner" (which i would say so), then stating that "I <3 Bad Manner" INCLUDES that kind of stuff. Also i would love, if you pm me a list of terms that are then part of the "funny bad manner" and the "serious bad manner". Where would you put "retard" for example? | ||
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_zEK
Sweden63 Posts
On March 11 2012 07:13 aristarchus wrote: Being ok with rudeness but not ok with racism is hypocritical? The problem with what Orb said was not just that it was rude. I guess calling people faggot and telling them to go and die is acceptable? :> | ||
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On March 11 2012 06:53 Longshank wrote: Yeah I saw that earlier. Firing orb was an understandable and correct decision but this goes to show that EG are a bunch of fucking hypocrits. They want to be the bad-ass Idra-doesntgiveashit-team but when someone comes along with actual bad manners they wet their panties. EG, do you love bad manners or not? You're as genuine as fucking Justin B. You do realize that they have no desire to be hateful though. The shirt is a joke. Does Incontrol or Demuslim or Machine come off as BM? Nope. Just because they have a shirt that says that does not mean that all manner of BM is what they want to do now. Seriously, why do all the EG haters make ridiculous statements that have no true argumentative value? | ||
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Kevan
Sweden2303 Posts
On March 11 2012 07:29 reapsen wrote: And what exactly would that difference be? If we talk Venn Diagrams and we have a big circle which is "Bad Manner", i understand that you argue that "racist/sexist/homophobic comments" are not part of that circle? Really? Please enlighten me with your wisdom then... Because if they were part of "Bad Manner" (which i would say so), then stating that "I <3 Bad Manner" INCLUDES that kind of stuff. Also i would love, if you pm me a list of terms that are then part of the "funny bad manner" and the "serious bad manner". Where would you put "retard" for example? It is ironic that that they are selling that shirt because Orb was obviously BM but being bad mannered without saying racist/sexist/homophobic stuff will not really offend anyone and then they don't risk losing fans, reputation(as much) and sponsors. I think that what Orb said might have been intended as BM and not as anything racist but that will not stop people from getting upset about it. Nobody is going to care if someone calls someone a retard in an online game for example. tl;dr: the difference is what offends and upsets people and what doesn't. | ||
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fraktoasters
United States617 Posts
On March 11 2012 07:29 reapsen wrote: And what exactly would that difference be? If we talk Venn Diagrams and we have a big circle which is "Bad Manner", i understand that you argue that "racist/sexist/homophobic comments" are not part of that circle? Really? Please enlighten me with your wisdom then... Because if they were part of "Bad Manner" (which i would say so), then stating that "I <3 Bad Manner" INCLUDES that kind of stuff. Also i would love, if you pm me a list of terms that are then part of the "funny bad manner" and the "serious bad manner". Where would you put "retard" for example? If I say I heart chocolate it doesn't meant I like chocolate that children died for to make. There is a difference and you're just trying to pervert the meaning of words until you get to the conclusion you want. | ||
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reapsen
Germany559 Posts
On March 11 2012 07:46 Kevan wrote: It is ironic that that they are selling that shirt because Orb was obviously BM but being bad mannered without saying racist/sexist/homophobic stuff will not really offend anyone and then they don't risk losing fans, reputation(as much) and sponsors. I think that what Orb said might have been intended as BM and not as anything racist but that will not stop people from getting upset about it. Nobody is going to care if someone calls someone a retard in an online game for example. tl;dr: the difference is what offends and upsets people and what doesn't. Not sure if trolling or serious, to be honest. How can you even judge what offends people? How is "nigger" more offensive than "retard". How can you predict the reaction of a random person to these words. Its even impossible to do when you stand face to face with a person and it is even more absurd to predict if it is over the internet. So you for yourself have the standard that "nigger" is more offensive than "retard". Thats fine. But now you project these standards to be global for everybody. But -newsflash- they aren't!! In some subgroups, like for example parts of the rap scene, calling someone "nigger" has no offensive meaning at all. Lets say there is JohnDoe who is somewhat mentally challenged. Don't you think he would be much more offended by beeing called "retard" then "nigger"? Bottom line, trying to differenciate terms in the groups "harshly offensive" and "bad manner, but kinda okay" is always from your point of view. | ||
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n0btozz
Iceland115 Posts
On March 11 2012 05:22 FluXxxx wrote: no need to ban him as he is argueing against nazi as a common word as it carries some of the worst ideologies and policies mankind has come up with!!! Does nobody read anything around here? I never said "nazi" was just some common word that was ok to use, read before you reply please. I said it was still stigmatized in Germany, however as time is passing, it is becoming less stigmatized. There is the possibility that you can say it to certain people now, 30 years ago nobody would have taken it lightly, same way as the "nigger" term that the discussion was originally about. This discussion is about stigmatized words, and being called a "Nazi" was an offensive thing to say to anyone in the 1960´s, people took it very seriously here in Europe. Today it´s not taken as seriously in most of Europe, although you don´t call people nazi´s for no reason, it´s like calling someone a homosexual while not being one, or a communist while not being one. However in Germany, it´s more stigmatized, but it is very slowly changing. The fact that I can have German buddies who are "ok" with me saying "damn nazi´s" is something that would not have been possible 30 years ago. Now what do you call that? And we are not talking 1-2, we are talking about a lot more people. And some Germans take extreme offense in the word and you can´t use it at all or they will get mad, I´m not saying anything different like all you guys think. It´s sad to see you argue with me on something that is pretty common knowledge. Now for replying the German who actually reads what I wrote and understands it: On March 11 2012 04:38 Thrombozyt wrote: Careful here. In public, being labled a Nazi is a very big deal here in Germany if you are a public person. Yes, me as a German I don't give a shit in private and when I was in the states, I even joked about the stereotype with my US buddies. So you are right in a way that in a private environment such as a random ladder game many Germans don't care much if they are called a Nazi, a Nigger or a Retard. In public life it's a whole different story. I am right, in private, with people you get to know, the word has become, in some cases, ok to use. Like I stated above, 30 years ago I would not get buddys on the internet (back then...pen buddies?  ) that it would be ok for me to say to "hey nazi, what you cooking for dinnah??" - now I don´t need to tell you what that is all about, that is all about how the word is having less impact on coming generations. It still holds it´s stigma, and you don´t call people it openly, just like in America (and before you start whining, I´m not saying they are exactly the same, I wouldn´t even have to mention this if I didn´t think you´d mis-interpret my words), Faggot is not as stigmatized as for example, Nigger, but still you don´t call some public person a faggot, but you can say to your buddy "damn bro, ur such a faggot" or "sup fag". I know, calling a public person a nazi is a big big deal, I never said it wasn´t. It´s just this rather banned bad mannered guy, "m4inbrain" that keeps on insisting that we are talking about public personas, or politicians and that is all he talks about because he doesn´t understand the discussion. He also thinks I´m talking about the word having lost all it´s stigma in Germany, I just can´t really reply to people who show such ignorance towards my reply´s, but i´ll give it one more go.On March 11 2012 05:00 m4inbrain wrote: Your statement is still true? .. Really? Wait, just let me get this stupidity straight. You have two german buddies, which you call nazi for fun sometimes, and they dont care. And thats why in germany it loses its stigma. Yeah. That sounds perfectly reasonable. Now, lets talk about insults. I even LINKED you a german newspaper with an article about a german politician who was called "Gauleiter" by a brit (i dont even think you know what that means, because you are an ignorant noodle that doesnt know shit, as you prove over and over). Cared to read it? No? Well whos ignorant now? I can PROVE what i state, your statement on the other hand is "yeah i got a friend or two or so and i call them like nazi or something and they dont care so its kk, k?" - how unbelievably stupid is that? Were talking insults here. I call my buddies grammarnazis, so? I even told you, thats not what were talking about - if you go to a politician for example and call him Nazi, you could even go to jail for that (and the politician will try EVERYTHING to get you there!). The INSULT nazi (you know, with the intent to insult someone) can even have legal consequences. What a waste of time you are, really. I give you the tip, read up on stuff before you dare commentating it. Especially if someone does your work for you and presents you with links. If you dont, dont dare to call someone who lives in germany, is german and proves his statements ignorant. edit User was temp banned for this post. I think I have put in bold the parts where he´s just talking crap, and replying to me on something I´m not even talking about. I don´t really care for discussions with people like him. Things are slowly changing, but I don´t think it will ever be acceptable to call anyone a nazi in public, without him being a nazi, just like you don´t call people things they arn´t, it´s pretty simple. But that´s not the point. But cba to discuss this with people who are unable to listen, that one German who got what I was saying, props to you, the rest of you, read the reply´s, if you can´t understand English properly, just google translate it before replying to me with "YOU CAN´T CALL A POLITICIAN A NAZI!", i really can´t be arsed with people who reply like that. | ||
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