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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
Trying to be mainstream is turning out to be just as lame as it sounded. Laughing hard at OP commenting every time someone says a slur
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Russian Federation798 Posts
I think this is all an over reaction to be honest, yes saying that word, especially on air is unacceptable, but it seems to me that he had no intention of being racist but rather just done it out of anger. Maybe some less severe punishment should have been implemented but hey whats done is done.
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On March 10 2012 16:43 iloveAthene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 16:36 omnic wrote:On March 10 2012 16:33 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 16:27 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2012 16:24 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 16:18 Djzapz wrote:
That's just an opinion Blisse... It really is.
Especially since "my entire race being put to slavery" years before my birth would be fucking meaningless to me, given that I don't identify myself by the color of my skin. My place is right now in this world - and while the history of my ancestors is not irrelevant, it shouldn't directly define who I am. If your grandparents, who you're very close with WERE identified by the the color of their skin when they were your age you might feel differently. Someone else might. Me? I don't think so, but I don't know. I guess I could have turned out badly if my family rammed me with their grudges against society. Let's plant a seed of hatred in that kid just to make sure he takes the past and shoves it in his personality even though it doesn't belong there. I'm not talking about about black grandparents teaching their grandchildren to hate white people maybe i misunderstood but what I got from it is that black grandparents teach their grandchildren to act like they(whites) are the same as the people who mistreated their race in the past. I'm most likely wrong though. Care to explain? Not at all, the grandchildren would probably just learn how real racism is and they'd really hate the word "nigger" yeah, I know we all know racism is bad, no ones arguing that.
It genuinely doesn't seem to be working though. It could be because I live in Minnesota which is a fairly progressive state generally but black people don't get that upset over the word. I can only guess that your idea works out in less progressive areas, but if that is the case is it really the work of their grandparents? or is it the work of the rest of the environment?
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On March 10 2012 16:39 iloveAthene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 16:32 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2012 16:28 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 16:26 omnic wrote:On March 10 2012 16:24 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 16:18 Djzapz wrote:
That's just an opinion Blisse... It really is.
Especially since "my entire race being put to slavery" years before my birth would be fucking meaningless to me, given that I don't identify myself by the color of my skin. My place is right now in this world - and while the history of my ancestors is not irrelevant, it shouldn't directly define who I am. If your grandparents, who you're very close with WERE identified by the the color of their skin when they were your age you might feel differently. Personally, I don't let the fact that my grandfather was a racist fuck let me be manipulated into molding my beliefs and attitude in life after his. If we were all so greatly effected by our grand parents the world would be a very different place. Well my grandfather was a POW in WW2 and I still hold a grudge against Nazis Should their children apologize to you brah? No, why would I care?
You haven't lived it, but you're angry toward the specific Nazis who caused shit some 70 years ago. However, your anger stops there - as it should. People who live in Germany now don't owe you a thing. They're like you and me, except they live on a landmass called Germany. Some of them have good families, others don't - it doesn't fucking matter. It's their parents, their grandparents.
So why do I owe extra respect, an excessive amount of respect, to black people whom I respect in the first place - but as an extra, there's this forbidden word which became banned simply because of just how bad OTHER PEOPLE were before I was born. OTHER PEOPLE weren't bad enough to homosexuals for "faggot" to be banned though. Let's give those people some more shit.
What the fuck.
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Hi Alex.
I cant belive that you fire orb and not Idra who actually called people fa--ot while representing EG. I am gonna write all your sponsors explaining that the only reason you care now is because its not your top player, and yes il include some links to Idras hatespeach in the mail.
Nobody in their right mind can believe that you actually care about anything but keeping your sponsors.
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On March 10 2012 16:51 KaptenCulpa wrote:
Hi Alex.
I cant belive that you fire orb and not Idra who actually called people fa--ot while representing EG. I am gonna write all your sponsors explaining that the only reason you care now is because its not your top player, and yes il include some links to Idras hatespeach in the mail.
Nobody in their right mind can believe that you actually care about anything but keeping your sponsors.
Exactly. Wasted a lot of people's time with the huge post.
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On March 10 2012 16:49 omnic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 16:43 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 16:36 omnic wrote:On March 10 2012 16:33 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 16:27 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2012 16:24 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 16:18 Djzapz wrote:
That's just an opinion Blisse... It really is.
Especially since "my entire race being put to slavery" years before my birth would be fucking meaningless to me, given that I don't identify myself by the color of my skin. My place is right now in this world - and while the history of my ancestors is not irrelevant, it shouldn't directly define who I am. If your grandparents, who you're very close with WERE identified by the the color of their skin when they were your age you might feel differently. Someone else might. Me? I don't think so, but I don't know. I guess I could have turned out badly if my family rammed me with their grudges against society. Let's plant a seed of hatred in that kid just to make sure he takes the past and shoves it in his personality even though it doesn't belong there. I'm not talking about about black grandparents teaching their grandchildren to hate white people maybe i misunderstood but what I got from it is that black grandparents teach their grandchildren to act like they(whites) are the same as the people who mistreated their race in the past. I'm most likely wrong though. Care to explain? Not at all, the grandchildren would probably just learn how real racism is and they'd really hate the word "nigger" yeah, I know we all know racism is bad, no ones arguing that. It genuinely doesn't seem to be working though. It could be because I live in Minnesota which is a fairly progressive state generally but black people don't get that upset over the word. I can only guess that you're idea works out in less progressive areas, but if that is the case is it really the work of their grandparents? or is it the work of the rest of the environment?
I really have no idea about the grandparents, just a thought that popped into my head.
And idk how upset black people get about here in Ohio. I know that black guys have told me its fine to say to say "nigga" but as soon as you add the "er" on they're gonna have a big problem.
edit: this was because we were hanging out, I still think there's a good chance they'd have a problem with some random white guy walking up and saying "what up my nigga"
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On March 10 2012 16:57 iloveAthene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 16:49 omnic wrote:On March 10 2012 16:43 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 16:36 omnic wrote:On March 10 2012 16:33 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 16:27 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2012 16:24 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 16:18 Djzapz wrote:
That's just an opinion Blisse... It really is.
Especially since "my entire race being put to slavery" years before my birth would be fucking meaningless to me, given that I don't identify myself by the color of my skin. My place is right now in this world - and while the history of my ancestors is not irrelevant, it shouldn't directly define who I am. If your grandparents, who you're very close with WERE identified by the the color of their skin when they were your age you might feel differently. Someone else might. Me? I don't think so, but I don't know. I guess I could have turned out badly if my family rammed me with their grudges against society. Let's plant a seed of hatred in that kid just to make sure he takes the past and shoves it in his personality even though it doesn't belong there. I'm not talking about about black grandparents teaching their grandchildren to hate white people maybe i misunderstood but what I got from it is that black grandparents teach their grandchildren to act like they(whites) are the same as the people who mistreated their race in the past. I'm most likely wrong though. Care to explain? Not at all, the grandchildren would probably just learn how real racism is and they'd really hate the word "nigger" yeah, I know we all know racism is bad, no ones arguing that. It genuinely doesn't seem to be working though. It could be because I live in Minnesota which is a fairly progressive state generally but black people don't get that upset over the word. I can only guess that you're idea works out in less progressive areas, but if that is the case is it really the work of their grandparents? or is it the work of the rest of the environment? I really have no idea about the grandparents, just a thought that popped into my head. And idk how upset black people get about here in Ohio. I know that black guys have told me its fine to say to say "nigga" but as soon as you add the "er" on they're gonna have a big problem.
I still think that you shouldn't say that just because it sounds and actually feels ridiculous. It's some sort of bitter gut feeling when a white guy attempts that.
On that note, it's 3AM and I have to go. Cheers.
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Honestly with all the shit that other people say on their streams? You're protecting your image and your $$$ and nothing else. Get over yourselves.
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Political correctness GONE WILD.
and the best part of it all:
ORB IS NOT A POLTICAN
Way to shut down the 1st amendment rights he has.
You LEGALLY can't hold someone accountable for said actions when he wasn't part of EG at the time.
Don't believe me- Google it. You don't need to pass a BAR to understand it.
In fact from this day forward The word TERRAN, ZERG, and PROTOSS offend me and I'm going to QQ to EVERY MOD ON THE SITE when those FOUL AND DEMEANING words are said. I can't even BEGIN to tell you how OFFENSIVE they are. You all just so INSENSITIVE.
^ Sarcasm ^
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On March 10 2012 16:32 omnic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 16:29 Blisse wrote:
It does define and it has defined who you are, whether you like it or not. Ignoring that is ridiculous. You don't have to identify yourself with something for it to affect you. I don't identify myself as being Chinese, but there's no doubt that I am who I am because I have had Chinese influences. You can be unique, but that doesn't mean you haven't been affected by it.
Do you even realize why people have to argue "I don't identify myself by the color of my skin?" Think about it.
Anyways, that's besides the point. I'm saying that the word itself carries hatred. Pure discriminatory hatred that subdued an entire race for hundreds of years. Hatred. Anyone who's studied black history and slavery understands what the word means and what it meant. And people have become desensitized to its meaning because people don't care anymore, but that doesn't mean it's not as bad. It's a horrible word. And using it is horrible.
Again - words aren't racist. Most words aren't bad. This one word is, and maybe a few others. But this one is the worst word by far. Probably the worst word in the history of the English language. There can be a very strong case for that.
This is very true, This is why whenever somebody calls out "fag" I think they are looking for some kindling for a fire. After all the meaning of words never changes with time and that's what that term once meant.
That is so incredible wrong. To give you a counter-example, compare common British slang with the equivalent in America. Meanings for words change drastically over time.
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Well this thread has gone to shit ^^
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On March 10 2012 17:03 gullberg wrote:
Well this thread has gone to shit ^^
I completely disagree. People are discussing something that was at the very front in the OP. How is that "gone to shit"? - If Alex didn't want this discussion, why even put so much emphasis on his dislike towards the word "nigger"?
Again, I said it 70 pages ago, I'll say it again.
The word is never the offense, only the meaning behind it. I say fag because it's fast, easier, and carries the same meaning as "homosexual". That doesn't make me a homophobe, nor do I hate gays/fags/homosexuals. I work with a gay guy, he's really fun, great at his job, and is no different from the rest of us HUMANS. He just likes men, where I like women. That's what the term "fag" implies FOR ME.
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On March 10 2012 17:02 sureshot_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 16:32 omnic wrote:On March 10 2012 16:29 Blisse wrote:
It does define and it has defined who you are, whether you like it or not. Ignoring that is ridiculous. You don't have to identify yourself with something for it to affect you. I don't identify myself as being Chinese, but there's no doubt that I am who I am because I have had Chinese influences. You can be unique, but that doesn't mean you haven't been affected by it.
Do you even realize why people have to argue "I don't identify myself by the color of my skin?" Think about it.
Anyways, that's besides the point. I'm saying that the word itself carries hatred. Pure discriminatory hatred that subdued an entire race for hundreds of years. Hatred. Anyone who's studied black history and slavery understands what the word means and what it meant. And people have become desensitized to its meaning because people don't care anymore, but that doesn't mean it's not as bad. It's a horrible word. And using it is horrible.
Again - words aren't racist. Most words aren't bad. This one word is, and maybe a few others. But this one is the worst word by far. Probably the worst word in the history of the English language. There can be a very strong case for that.
This is very true, This is why whenever somebody calls out "fag" I think they are looking for some kindling for a fire. After all the meaning of words never changes with time and that's what that term once meant. That is so incredible wrong. To give you a counter-example, compare common British slang with the equivalent in America. Meanings for words change drastically over time.
I don't mean to call you out here, but that was the point of my post.
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On March 10 2012 17:11 omnic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 17:02 sureshot_ wrote:On March 10 2012 16:32 omnic wrote:On March 10 2012 16:29 Blisse wrote:
It does define and it has defined who you are, whether you like it or not. Ignoring that is ridiculous. You don't have to identify yourself with something for it to affect you. I don't identify myself as being Chinese, but there's no doubt that I am who I am because I have had Chinese influences. You can be unique, but that doesn't mean you haven't been affected by it.
Do you even realize why people have to argue "I don't identify myself by the color of my skin?" Think about it.
Anyways, that's besides the point. I'm saying that the word itself carries hatred. Pure discriminatory hatred that subdued an entire race for hundreds of years. Hatred. Anyone who's studied black history and slavery understands what the word means and what it meant. And people have become desensitized to its meaning because people don't care anymore, but that doesn't mean it's not as bad. It's a horrible word. And using it is horrible.
Again - words aren't racist. Most words aren't bad. This one word is, and maybe a few others. But this one is the worst word by far. Probably the worst word in the history of the English language. There can be a very strong case for that.
This is very true, This is why whenever somebody calls out "fag" I think they are looking for some kindling for a fire. After all the meaning of words never changes with time and that's what that term once meant. That is so incredible wrong. To give you a counter-example, compare common British slang with the equivalent in America. Meanings for words change drastically over time. I don't mean to call you out here, but that was the point of my post.
I'm confused, you said the meanings of words do not change?
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On March 10 2012 17:13 sureshot_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 17:11 omnic wrote:On March 10 2012 17:02 sureshot_ wrote:On March 10 2012 16:32 omnic wrote:On March 10 2012 16:29 Blisse wrote:
It does define and it has defined who you are, whether you like it or not. Ignoring that is ridiculous. You don't have to identify yourself with something for it to affect you. I don't identify myself as being Chinese, but there's no doubt that I am who I am because I have had Chinese influences. You can be unique, but that doesn't mean you haven't been affected by it.
Do you even realize why people have to argue "I don't identify myself by the color of my skin?" Think about it.
Anyways, that's besides the point. I'm saying that the word itself carries hatred. Pure discriminatory hatred that subdued an entire race for hundreds of years. Hatred. Anyone who's studied black history and slavery understands what the word means and what it meant. And people have become desensitized to its meaning because people don't care anymore, but that doesn't mean it's not as bad. It's a horrible word. And using it is horrible.
Again - words aren't racist. Most words aren't bad. This one word is, and maybe a few others. But this one is the worst word by far. Probably the worst word in the history of the English language. There can be a very strong case for that.
This is very true, This is why whenever somebody calls out "fag" I think they are looking for some kindling for a fire. After all the meaning of words never changes with time and that's what that term once meant. That is so incredible wrong. To give you a counter-example, compare common British slang with the equivalent in America. Meanings for words change drastically over time. I don't mean to call you out here, but that was the point of my post. I'm confused, you said the meaning of words do not change?
I was being sarcastic. In the first part of my post I specifically make a point that the word "fag" has changed drastically from its original meaning "a bundle of small sticks". I was being sarcastic in the second half for dramatic purpose.
EDIT: It's my fault because sarcasm relies heavily on body language to understand and the internet lacks body language. So.... my bad.
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On March 10 2012 17:15 omnic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 17:13 sureshot_ wrote:On March 10 2012 17:11 omnic wrote:On March 10 2012 17:02 sureshot_ wrote:On March 10 2012 16:32 omnic wrote:On March 10 2012 16:29 Blisse wrote:
It does define and it has defined who you are, whether you like it or not. Ignoring that is ridiculous. You don't have to identify yourself with something for it to affect you. I don't identify myself as being Chinese, but there's no doubt that I am who I am because I have had Chinese influences. You can be unique, but that doesn't mean you haven't been affected by it.
Do you even realize why people have to argue "I don't identify myself by the color of my skin?" Think about it.
Anyways, that's besides the point. I'm saying that the word itself carries hatred. Pure discriminatory hatred that subdued an entire race for hundreds of years. Hatred. Anyone who's studied black history and slavery understands what the word means and what it meant. And people have become desensitized to its meaning because people don't care anymore, but that doesn't mean it's not as bad. It's a horrible word. And using it is horrible.
Again - words aren't racist. Most words aren't bad. This one word is, and maybe a few others. But this one is the worst word by far. Probably the worst word in the history of the English language. There can be a very strong case for that.
This is very true, This is why whenever somebody calls out "fag" I think they are looking for some kindling for a fire. After all the meaning of words never changes with time and that's what that term once meant. That is so incredible wrong. To give you a counter-example, compare common British slang with the equivalent in America. Meanings for words change drastically over time. I don't mean to call you out here, but that was the point of my post. I'm confused, you said the meaning of words do not change? I was being sarcastic. In the first part of my post I specifically make a point that the word "fag" has changed drastically from its original meaning "a bundle of small sticks". I was being sarcastic in the second half for dramatic purpose.
Lol. Sorry it's far too late in the night. I start to skip lines; sarcasm becomes hard to notice.
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Firstly, let me say that i do not believe any race to be superior to others. Even if you could prove inherent strengths and weaknesses genetically, and trace them to certain races etc i still would not be able to regard one race as "better" than another. And honestly, i wouldnt care to point it out or even take note of it either. I am an individual. I worry about what im doing and what i stand for. Whether all races are equal or not means nothing to me, my focus is on my own personal life and goals etc. And when i encounter other human beings i look upon them as simply another idividual with their own focus and their own goals. I cant be bothered with what color or sex or background they come from. That being said, scientifically, preference for ones own race and family is a well documented human universal, spanning all cultures, and all time. Take from that what you will. If a black man prefers to sit with other black men at lunch break instead of me (white guy), you will not find me being offended in any way, nor will i regard him as a racist. If i overhear him call a white man a cracker or some other slur for white people, i will not assume he is a racist. The greatest freedom i can give to my fellow man is the freedom to learn for himself about the world around him. To live by example and let him see that it is safe and actually awesome, to sit with others not of your exact cultural background. I would rather make people who fear what i am come around in time and realize there is nothing to fear through positive influence, rather than restrict them and tell them like a dictator that fearing me is wrong or that they absolutely must see me as their equal. This would be my personal preferred approach.
I like EG, and i like idra and geoff etcetc, but i cannot stand Alex anymore. He makes me want to hate EG. Do me a favor Alex, dont take your personal agenda and tell me what esports needs or tell me what the "community" needs. Dont even tell me a single thing about "community". Im getting sick and tired of hearing about what SC NEEDS to grow or to improve. If people want to make comfortable livings out of it and grow it up to a normal sport like football thats fine. But just remember that some of us simply just played Starcraft, and loved it. I wasnt looking for a buddy buddy feeling when i starting playing and watching replays and eventually vods then streams all those years ago in BW days. I watched it for the games and the high level of play. I dont care about feeling like a big entity with influence and power in society. I dont care about if someones girlfriend thinks SC is socially acceptable or not. I dont even care if its politically correct. Dont tell me what SC and competitive RTS is. Dont define "community" for me and tell me what it needs to be legit. Because to me, it was just as legit or more when it was a couple thousand nerds gathered around a 240p korean cast stream at 5 am.
Stop telling me what esports "needs". Dont speak for me. Pursue your own vision for sure, and good luck to you, but dont tell me what the thing i love and have loved for 11 years "needs" to be legitimate.
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By condemning the "n" word, you are being hypocritical and empowering the word to continue to be used in a hateful manner. It's just a word, and it will fade into history if you treat it like a word and not a nuclear bomb.
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EPT
