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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 10 2012 12:36 s_side wrote:
I am completely ashamed that this is what we have come to as a society (internet or otherwise).
What is truly abhorrent in this world? The fact that there are wide swathes of humanity living in complete squalor. The fact that most people on earth do not enjoy freedom of speech or freedom of assembly. The fact that there are many for whom hard work is NOT a gateway to a prosperous (or even marginal) existence.
The false outrage from white suburbanites about words like "nigger" does not only devalue the issues behind the language, but it devalues the entire message of equality.
I can't imagine many are surprised that the OP was a "Black Studies" major. It reads EXACTLY as anyone with any experience with this type of nonsense would expect.
We're not arguing what the very-wery most worst things in the world are, as if that is some absolves people of bad behavior. That's not much of an argument.
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On March 09 2012 12:42 ottersareneat wrote:
[i]And, it should go without saying that if we'd ever known that Orb had used such language in the past, or was prone to using such language, we wouldn't have contracted him in the first place.
Is this true? I had heard several allegations of Orb's BM being notorious on his stream. Not that I think it's a good reason to fire him in the first place, aren't there instances of similar behavior from Orb in the past?
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On March 10 2012 12:48 omnic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 12:44 Defacer wrote:On March 10 2012 12:34 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2012 12:07 Defacer wrote:On March 10 2012 11:48 Soma Cruz wrote:
Wishing death is much worse than nigger. Saying nigger isn't the worst thing in the world.
Sorry. This again is where insular gaming nerds demonstrate a complete disconnect/obliviousness to the real world. 'Wishing death' is not worse the using the word nigger in a derogatory way. Just because you say so doesn't mean the rest of society agrees will you, no matter how well you argue otherwise. Perhaps one day, we woke up in the morning wondering "what the hell should we hate? that's it - nigger is an unbelievably offensive word". Oh we don't talk about that, that's dark history. Meanwhile the few descendants of the Aztecs that we ALLOWED to live, well they're tucked away from "us". They didn't have the means to get us to hate racism against them. So instead of being outraged about that, we're just passive about it. Hypocrites. A fucking word spawned 150 pages. A word. It's sick. Wut? Don't understand what you're saying here, the grammar is too sloppy. How about you learn how to read? His grammar is fine, maybe english isn't your first language so you're having trouble understanding what he said. If that's the case don't pawn it off as his problem.
"They didn't have the means to get us to hate racism against them."
Seriously. What the hell is he trying to say with this sentence?
I'm not being condescending. It's actually a poorly written paragraph.
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On March 10 2012 13:15 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 12:48 omnic wrote:On March 10 2012 12:44 Defacer wrote:On March 10 2012 12:34 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2012 12:07 Defacer wrote:On March 10 2012 11:48 Soma Cruz wrote:
Wishing death is much worse than nigger. Saying nigger isn't the worst thing in the world.
Sorry. This again is where insular gaming nerds demonstrate a complete disconnect/obliviousness to the real world. 'Wishing death' is not worse the using the word nigger in a derogatory way. Just because you say so doesn't mean the rest of society agrees will you, no matter how well you argue otherwise. Perhaps one day, we woke up in the morning wondering "what the hell should we hate? that's it - nigger is an unbelievably offensive word". Oh we don't talk about that, that's dark history. Meanwhile the few descendants of the Aztecs that we ALLOWED to live, well they're tucked away from "us". They didn't have the means to get us to hate racism against them. So instead of being outraged about that, we're just passive about it. Hypocrites. A fucking word spawned 150 pages. A word. It's sick. Wut? Don't understand what you're saying here, the grammar is too sloppy. How about you learn how to read? His grammar is fine, maybe english isn't your first language so you're having trouble understanding what he said. If that's the case don't pawn it off as his problem. "They didn't have the means to get us to hate racism against them."Seriously. What the hell is he trying to say with this sentence? I'm not being condescending. It's actually a poorly written paragraph.
They did not have the (methods) to get us to hate racism (aimed toward them).
OR
They did not have the means to an end.
It's incredible that you can't read sentences.
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On March 10 2012 13:05 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 12:59 Soma Cruz wrote:
First off, saying n word is just a way to get away with saying nigger with a good conscience (http://youtu.be/zuLrBLxbLxw) I don't give two shits about my conscience, I'm doing my best not to pepper this conversation with n-bombs since it's a genuinely offensive term and it doesn't hurt me in any way to type/say "n-word" instead of using a word that some people find difficult to read Show nested quote +What is wrong with his insight, which is rather similar to CatZ in his popular video at the moment? You guys aren't helping racism by getting offended over someone saying a word. You think people who are affected by actual racism give any shits about what some kid on the internet says? Most likely, no. I'm not trying to "help racism," I'm trying to prevent or at the very least dissuade public figures in the community from using terminology that is derogatory as well as being completely unnecessary me thinking that posting on teamliquid somehow will do anything to stop racism would be just as stupid as you thinking that orb and everyone else on the internet calling random people a "dumb nigger" is somehow going to turn the word into something that people won't be offended by ..oh, wait.
*sigh*
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I feel getting fixated on the word nigger is just so dumb. Why not just get offended by Orb's general attitude? He seems like a piece of shit, from his constant lying, his old stream where he constantly insulted everyone (his viewers included), and attitude, not for the niggers. I feel he shouldn't have been hired in the first place, because of him being a giant dick hole.
I can see needing to fire him from pressure from sponsors and stuff, but this OP seems like it was pushed out for the sake of PR. Why not just tell the truth about firing him? "Yeah, people started going to sponsors and they were giving us blow back... Orb hasn't really added anything to our organization, so there was no net gain for keeping him... We keep IdrA even though he says harsh language, because he is profitable... Orb wasn't really worth the risk."
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Nice overreaction....just wow.
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On March 10 2012 13:19 Soma Cruz wrote:
I can see needing to fire him from pressure from sponsors and stuff, but this OP seems like it was pushed out for the sake of PR. Why not just tell the truth about firing him? "Yeah, people started going to sponsors and they were giving us blow back... Orb hasn't really added anything to our organization, so there was no net gain for keeping him... We keep IdrA even though he says harsh language, because he is profitable... Orb wasn't really worth the risk."
Alex is the king of these types of PR moves; impressive in some ways, but wholly disappointing in others. Especially when people fall for them.
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On March 10 2012 12:34 Djzapz wrote:
Perhaps one day, we woke up in the morning wondering "what the hell should we hate? that's it - nigger is an unbelievably offensive word". Oh we don't talk about that, that's dark history. Meanwhile the few descendants of the Aztecs that we ALLOWED to live, well they're tucked away from "us". They didn't have the means to get us to hate racism against them. So instead of being outraged about that, we're just passive about it.
Hypocrites. A fucking word spawned 150 pages. A word. It's sick.
I rewrote your paragraph:
"The fact that we have chosen to hate the word "nigger", and what it represents, is arbitrary. The Western world has a long and dark history of enslavement, murder and mass genocide -- such as the Aztecs, an entire civilization we wiped out with very few survivors. Where is the moral outrage? There is none -- they don't have the means to victimize themselves because they're all dead. So we're passive about it. We ignore this injustice."
Is this what you're trying to say, lazy pants?
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Was Alex caught up in some kinda CS business? What happened with that? I keep seeing some mention of something, but never any details.
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On March 10 2012 13:26 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 12:34 Djzapz wrote:
Perhaps one day, we woke up in the morning wondering "what the hell should we hate? that's it - nigger is an unbelievably offensive word". Oh we don't talk about that, that's dark history. Meanwhile the few descendants of the Aztecs that we ALLOWED to live, well they're tucked away from "us". They didn't have the means to get us to hate racism against them. So instead of being outraged about that, we're just passive about it.
Hypocrites. A fucking word spawned 150 pages. A word. It's sick. I rewrote your paragraph: "The fact that we have chosen to hate the word "nigger", and what it represents, is arbitrary. The Western world has a long and dark history of enslavement, murder and mass genocide -- such as the Aztecs, an entire civilization we wiped out with very few survivors. Where is the moral outrage? There is none -- they don't have the means to victimize themselves because they're all dead. So we're passive about it. We ignore this injustice." Is this what you're trying to say, lazy pants?
Good job bro, it's a shame your post is redundant because the only person that couldn't understand it was you.
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It's a bit sad really to see his casting career end because of a minor mistake he made in his pastime before he even got hired. People should think about the context for a second. He wasn't broadcasting it to thousands of viewers. He was just venting and typing the next best insult. So yeah, it was meant as an insult, but I am rather sure it wasn't targetted against black people. When typing "shit" or "fuck" I'm not actually thinking about objects or activities. In my opinion it's all about the intention. This incident reminded me of the fact that the internet doesn't forget.
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Sad to hear because orb is really a great caster, i think overall he seems like a really nice guy. =(
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On March 10 2012 13:30 omnic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 13:26 Defacer wrote:On March 10 2012 12:34 Djzapz wrote:
Perhaps one day, we woke up in the morning wondering "what the hell should we hate? that's it - nigger is an unbelievably offensive word". Oh we don't talk about that, that's dark history. Meanwhile the few descendants of the Aztecs that we ALLOWED to live, well they're tucked away from "us". They didn't have the means to get us to hate racism against them. So instead of being outraged about that, we're just passive about it.
Hypocrites. A fucking word spawned 150 pages. A word. It's sick. I rewrote your paragraph: "The fact that we have chosen to hate the word "nigger", and what it represents, is arbitrary. The Western world has a long and dark history of enslavement, murder and mass genocide -- such as the Aztecs, an entire civilization we wiped out with very few survivors. Where is the moral outrage? There is none -- they don't have the means to victimize themselves because they're all dead. So we're passive about it. We ignore this injustice." Is this what you're trying to say, lazy pants? Good job bro, it's a shame your post is redundant because the only person that couldn't understand it was you.
If that's his argument -- that people shouldn't speak out against persecution and discrimination because other people had it worse, and no one cares anymore -- that's dumb.
A race or demographic speaks out against discrimination BECAUSE they don't want their treatment devolve or get worse. And people outside of that demographic empathize with that.
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On March 10 2012 13:30 Sade wrote:
It's a bit sad really to see his casting career end because of a minor mistake he made in his pastime before he even got hired. People should think about the context for a second. He wasn't broadcasting it to thousands of viewers. He was just venting and typing the next best insult. So yeah, it was meant as an insult, but I am rather sure it wasn't targetted against black people. When typing "shit" or "fuck" I'm not actually thinking about objects or activities. In my opinion it's all about the intention. This incident reminded me of the fact that the internet doesn't forget.
You overestimate every ones ability to care for more then 2 weeks about a particular subject.
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On March 10 2012 13:26 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 12:34 Djzapz wrote:
Perhaps one day, we woke up in the morning wondering "what the hell should we hate? that's it - nigger is an unbelievably offensive word". Oh we don't talk about that, that's dark history. Meanwhile the few descendants of the Aztecs that we ALLOWED to live, well they're tucked away from "us". They didn't have the means to get us to hate racism against them. So instead of being outraged about that, we're just passive about it.
Hypocrites. A fucking word spawned 150 pages. A word. It's sick. I rewrote your paragraph: "The fact that we have chosen to hate the word "nigger", and what it represents, is arbitrary. The Western world has a long and dark history of enslavement, murder and mass genocide -- such as the Aztecs, an entire civilization we wiped out with very few survivors. Where is the moral outrage? There is none -- they don't have the means to victimize themselves because they're all dead. So we're passive about it. We ignore this injustice." Is this what you're trying to say, lazy pants?
Well almost. Mine had character though. Still, strange that you chose to dismiss it - you do understand it.
That said, the descendants of indigenous people are still around, they just don't have lobbies to make us realize how shitty we've been and still are to them. It's even worse, perhaps much worse than how black people were treated. I made that example just to show how artificial is the stigma around the word "nigger", but it also brings up another questions, doesn't it?
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On March 10 2012 13:34 Utinni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 13:30 Sade wrote:
It's a bit sad really to see his casting career end because of a minor mistake he made in his pastime before he even got hired. People should think about the context for a second. He wasn't broadcasting it to thousands of viewers. He was just venting and typing the next best insult. So yeah, it was meant as an insult, but I am rather sure it wasn't targetted against black people. When typing "shit" or "fuck" I'm not actually thinking about objects or activities. In my opinion it's all about the intention. This incident reminded me of the fact that the internet doesn't forget. You overestimate every ones ability to care for more then 2 weeks about a particular subject.
Two weeks seems generous. Give it another two days or so. There will be a new drama up voted on Reddit, everyone will move on.
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But when Idra goes all racist on poor Terrans noone says a word.(((
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United States7483 Posts
On March 10 2012 13:10 Swede wrote:
Dismissing him is a little extreme. It seems to me like Alex's own educational background is skewing his perspective of how bad this whole situation really is.
I doubt anyone reasonable could honestly be offended by something as small as an impersonal insult anyway. It's just an expectation which is set by yourself and others. Things are changing though, and one day people will start worrying about things that actually matter. For now, let's all freak out because somebody said 'nigger'.
He kind of had to, EG doesn't want the kind of attention that would result from employing someone with this kind of behavior pattern, and I suspect there actually are a fair number of people out there who would be bothered enough by orb continuing to cast for them that it would hurt their business.
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On March 10 2012 13:41 Soma Cruz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 13:34 Utinni wrote:On March 10 2012 13:30 Sade wrote:
It's a bit sad really to see his casting career end because of a minor mistake he made in his pastime before he even got hired. People should think about the context for a second. He wasn't broadcasting it to thousands of viewers. He was just venting and typing the next best insult. So yeah, it was meant as an insult, but I am rather sure it wasn't targetted against black people. When typing "shit" or "fuck" I'm not actually thinking about objects or activities. In my opinion it's all about the intention. This incident reminded me of the fact that the internet doesn't forget. You overestimate every ones ability to care for more then 2 weeks about a particular subject. Two weeks seems generous. Give it another two days or so. There will be a new drama up voted on Reddit, everyone will move on.
I stand corrected, Desrow has accelerated this process quite quickly.
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EPT
