EPTOk thanks for clearing the confusion.
Orb Dismissed from Evil Geniuses Broadcasts - Page 149
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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038 Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST | ||
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bARBRO
8 Posts
Ok thanks for clearing the confusion. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 10 2012 11:26 Djzapz wrote: And for everyone else: EG has no integrity. People shouldn't be "proud" and shouldn't respect EG's decision of firing orb. They would have kept him if he had still been an asset. That's a pretty cynical assumption. If IdrA starting raging in a stream or in a tournament and calling opponents niggers, I'm pretty sure he'd be shit-canned. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 10 2012 11:41 XxMulexX wrote: I didn't know that Idra used language like "faggot" in public, but knowing that, I think it's fairly obvious that there's a double standard here. I also think that saying that people have some sort of moral obligation to retract their statements to their sponsors is a little too much. Nobody owes EG anything. I think it was against cruncher in NASL in chat? That was pretty embarassing, too. | ||
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Soma Cruz
United States209 Posts
On March 10 2012 11:45 Defacer wrote: That's a pretty cynical assumption. If IdrA starting raging in a stream or in a tournament and calling opponents niggers, I'm pretty sure he'd be shit-canned. IdrA has raged on stream, told people they were wastes of life, told them to die, etc. Wishing death is much worse than nigger. Saying nigger isn't the worst thing in the world. Orb's context was kinda hurtful, but he got mad on a ladder game... Many people have gotten mad and over reacted. DJWheat admitted (on Live on Three) to saying worse things than Orb did... He even said you could probably dig it up if you tried. Going to go get him fired now, too, for something he did the past, community? | ||
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bARBRO
8 Posts
On March 10 2012 11:48 Soma Cruz wrote: IdrA has raged on stream, told people they were wastes of life, told them to die, etc. Wishing death is much worse than nigger. Saying nigger isn't the worst thing in the world. Orb's context was kinda hurtful, but he got mad on a ladder game... Many people have gotten mad and over reacted. DJWheat admitted (on Live on Three) to saying worse things than Orb did... He even said you could probably dig it up if you tried. Going to go get him fired now, too, for something he did the past, community? I couldn't have said this better myself. I completely agree with all of this. Idra is a big letdown to the community. He's bad mannered and childish. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 10 2012 11:48 Soma Cruz wrote: Wishing death is much worse than nigger. Saying nigger isn't the worst thing in the world. Sorry. This again is where insular gaming nerds demonstrate a complete disconnect/obliviousness to the real world. 'Wishing death' is not worse the using the word nigger in a derogatory way. Just because you say so doesn't mean the rest of society agrees will you, no matter how well you argue otherwise. | ||
imallinson
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:07 Defacer wrote: Sorry. This again is where insular gaming nerds demonstrate a complete disconnect/obliviousness to the real world. 'Wishing death' is not worse the using the word nigger in a derogatory way. Just because you say so doesn't mean the rest of society agrees will you, no matter how well you argue otherwise. As someone who has had both death threats and disbalist/homophobic insults thrown at them (not the exactly the same but close) I'd have to go with death threats being worse. Obviously neither is acceptable and trying to argue that one person should be more shunned by the community for either is a bit pointless | ||
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
On March 10 2012 11:48 Soma Cruz wrote: Wishing death is much worse than nigger. "Wishing death" on someone online who you have absolutely no ability to actually threaten is not nearly as offensive as using terminology that denigrates millions of people who have nothing to do with you or the person you're threatening Both are induced by blind anger and neither should frankly be taken seriously, but one is an empty threat and one is a derogatory and offensive remark that extends beyond the intended target | ||
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Soma Cruz
United States209 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:07 Defacer wrote: Sorry. This again is where insular gaming nerds demonstrate a complete disconnect/obliviousness to the real world. 'Wishing death' is not worse the using the word nigger in a derogatory way. Just because you say so doesn't mean the rest of society agrees will you, no matter how well you argue otherwise. How isn't hoping someone dies worse than saying nigger? Are you the rest of society? You know for a fact that the majority of people would prefer death wishes to nigger? I really don't care how much of society feels, either. The majority isn't always correct. The majority of Republicans seems to be voting for Rick Santorum of all people, that doesn't seem that correct xd. And anyway, I don't really feel either would be that offensive, as IdrA probably wasn't seriously hoping people would die and Orb isn't actually racist, he was just ladder raging. | ||
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:21 Soma Cruz wrote: How isn't hoping someone dies worse than saying nigger? Are you the rest of society? You know for a fact that the majority of people would prefer death wishes to nigger? I really don't care how much of society feels, either. The majority isn't always correct. The majority of Republicans seems to be voting for Rick Santorum of all people, that doesn't seem that correct xd. In a hypothetical situation where some dude walked up to me on the street and told me he was going to kill me because I'm an n-word, I admit that I would be much more disturbed by him threatening physical violence than him calling me a racial slur, yes. This is the Internet, though, so the victim of what IdrA is saying knows full well that IdrA isn't going to kill him or anything... hell, IdrA doesn't even have the means to do it if he wanted to, because of the veil of anonymity and all that. Using the n-word, however, is offensive to people who aren't even the target of the insult, which means that when you publicly (sorry ladder's public guys) use it, it extends beyond a personal threat and ceases to be hollow. And anyway, I don't really feel either would be that offensive, as IdrA probably wasn't seriously hoping people would die and Orb isn't actually racist, he was just ladder raging. I think the point people are trying to make to you is that saying "go die" is obviously harmless and anger-induced, whereas bringing the n-word into the equation opens up a whole different can of worms (ie racism) that frankly has no business in what should be a personal exchange of old-fashioned ladder rage. double edit: I don't think orb is a racist btw and I frankly think him losing his job was a little much but that doesn't make his behavior okay | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:21 Soma Cruz wrote: How isn't hoping someone dies worse than saying nigger? Are you the rest of society? You know for a fact that the majority of people would prefer death wishes to nigger? I really don't care how much of society feels, either. The majority isn't always correct. The majority of Republicans seems to be voting for Rick Santorum of all people, that doesn't seem that correct xd. And anyway, I don't really feel either would be that offensive, as IdrA probably wasn't seriously hoping people would die and Orb isn't actually racist, he was just ladder raging. My fellow poster sums it up pretty well. On March 10 2012 12:20 corpuscle wrote: "Wishing death" on someone online who you have absolutely no ability to actually threaten is not nearly as offensive as using terminology that denigrates millions of people who have nothing to do with you or the person you're threatening | ||
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Soma Cruz
United States209 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:25 corpuscle wrote: In a hypothetical situation where some dude walked up to me on the street and told me he was going to kill me because I'm an n-word, I admit that I would be much more disturbed by him threatening physical violence than him calling me a racial slur, yes. This is the Internet, though, so the victim of what IdrA is saying knows full well that IdrA isn't going to kill him or anything... hell, IdrA doesn't even have the means to do it if he wanted to, because of the veil of anonymity and all that. Using the n-word, however, is offensive to people who aren't even the target of the insult, which means that when you publicly (sorry ladder's public guys) use it, it extends beyond a personal threat and ceases to be hollow. wat He was playing against one guy and said nigger risk or whatever. How is he insulting other people? It'd be no different if he said he took a fucking moron (which is an old slur referring to handicapped people, so it's really bad) risk or whatever. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:07 Defacer wrote: Sorry. This again is where insular gaming nerds demonstrate a complete disconnect/obliviousness to the real world. 'Wishing death' is not worse the using the word nigger in a derogatory way. Just because you say so doesn't mean the rest of society agrees will you, no matter how well you argue otherwise. Well, you're only right because of the stigma around the word "nigger". I mean try to take an objective view, and bear with me now. 1- The direct wish for someone to DIE. Death. The wish for someone to be pulled from this world. 2- The mention of a word, out of context, without it's meaning. Literally taken - but this is indirect - it brings memories of horrible things that happened to a people, mostly in the past. The second is interesting because its relative, disproportionate importance for people who aren't willing to do anything about the real problem, and will just get offended by a little word. A word which we've been conditioned to despise regardless of context. And we don't have good reasons for it, except some kind of unexplained belief that mentioning the word somehow contributes to the proliferation of bad thoughts (which by the way are disconnected from terminology). It's like this because of disgusting things that our ancestors did and somehow *I* should feel bad, ME - a fervent equal rights proponent? It's funny, because 500 years ago they dragged their asses from Europe, wiped the fuck out of the "indigenous" populations - killed millions, and enslaved black people. Perhaps one day, we woke up in the morning wondering "what the hell should we hate? that's it - nigger is an unbelievably offensive word". Oh we don't talk about that, that's dark history. Meanwhile the few descendants of the Aztecs that we ALLOWED to live, well they're tucked away from "us". They didn't have the means to get us to hate racism against them. So instead of being outraged about that, we're just passive about it. Hypocrites. A fucking word spawned 150 pages. A word. It's sick. | ||
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1hpBuiltForLove
Canada89 Posts
So they dig up(cough)..err find something from Orb's past, and this allows EG to get rid of him. It sucks that Orb cannot remain an idol to the community anymore, since EG made him that way, and by dismissing him, thus they strip him of all his self-earned success. The only thing I didn't get about the whole thread, is that its about rascism apparently, though the title is 'Orb dismissed from Evil Genius Broadcasts'(though he is not a rascist-when we all get to the point) Is their a point of inspiration anyone missed? Cause I thought people just didn't like orb. Who the fuck knows what racism is? | ||
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stratmatt
United States913 Posts
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s_side
United States700 Posts
What is truly abhorrent in this world? The fact that there are wide swathes of humanity living in complete squalor. The fact that most people on earth do not enjoy freedom of speech or freedom of assembly. The fact that there are many for whom hard work is NOT a gateway to a prosperous (or even marginal) existence. The false outrage from white suburbanites about words like "nigger" does not only devalue the issues behind the language, but it devalues the entire message of equality. I can't imagine many are surprised that the OP was a "Black Studies" major. It reads EXACTLY as anyone with any experience with this type of nonsense would expect. | ||
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corpuscle
United States1967 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:32 Soma Cruz wrote: wat He was playing against one guy and said nigger risk or whatever. How is he insulting other people? It'd be no different if he said he took a fucking moron (which is an old slur referring to handicapped people, so it's really bad) risk or whatever. I run up ramps against sentries all the time, and I thought it was because I'm not that good and exploit the fact that my MMR means that my opponents also probably aren't that good either, but I guess it's just because I'm black and we do things like that because we're stupid and incapable of properly scouting and assessing the situation in a game as complicated and nuanced as Starcraft 2 seriously, if you can't see why calling a poorly thought-out play a "dumb nigger risk" would be offensive to a black person, I really don't know what to tell you | ||
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Soma Cruz
United States209 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:36 corpuscle wrote: I run up ramps against sentries all the time, and I thought it was because I'm not that good and exploit the fact that my MMR means that my opponents also probably aren't that good either, but I guess it's just because I'm black and we do things like that because we're stupid and incapable of properly scouting and assessing the situation in a game as complicated and nuanced as Starcraft 2 seriously, if you can't see why calling a poorly thought-out play a "dumb nigger risk" would be offensive to a black person, I really don't know what to tell you .... He obviously didn't use the word to mean black people. He used it to mean something like moron or stupid. Moron is an old slur for handicapped people, which has changed. Why can't nigger change? http://teevox.com/#!/c=streams&ch=1&s0=38490 Destiny and Kyle are talking about this stuff right now. Do you get offended when someone calls people a Grammar Nazi on a forum? Being called a Nazi is pretty awful. They killed tons of people. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:34 Djzapz wrote: Perhaps one day, we woke up in the morning wondering "what the hell should we hate? that's it - nigger is an unbelievably offensive word". Oh we don't talk about that, that's dark history. Meanwhile the few descendants of the Aztecs that we ALLOWED to live, well they're tucked away from "us". They didn't have the means to get us to hate racism against them. So instead of being outraged about that, we're just passive about it. Hypocrites. A fucking word spawned 150 pages. A word. It's sick. Wut? Don't understand what you're saying here, the grammar is too sloppy. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On March 10 2012 12:44 Defacer wrote: Wut? Don't understand what you're saying here, the grammar is too sloppy. Nice cop out. The grammar is reasonably good and the text straight forward. Learn to read. | ||
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