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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 10 2012 10:57 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 10:49 RevRich wrote:On March 10 2012 10:37 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 10:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 10 2012 10:30 Gov wrote:
People went after EG's sponsors without even having an official response from EG about it?
Sometimes I hate what this community has become... they also contacted the NAACP. lol. I'd venture to bet the people who really raised hell and contacted sponsors and the NAACP were previous victims of Orb's rage. Karma's a bitch son ^This is how I feel about it. When you throw rage fits sprinkled with racist terms you make a lot of enemies. Having a lot of enemies has a tendency to bite you in the ass when it hurts the most. That doesn't leave me with a sense of fairness. Because for every offended ladder player, who apparently managed to really get offended instead of having fun at Orb's vulnerability to lose his composure so easily over something so small - like so many have teased him about since beta - but for every such player, there are potentially hundreds of viewers who are robbed of very high level game analysis in a SC2 cast.
Ehh, plenty of good casters still out there. You hear the combos they had at IEM? Idra/Apollo, MrBitter/Idra/Dimaga, Grubby/Rotterdam. Soooo good
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On March 10 2012 11:01 iloveAthene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 10:57 figq wrote:On March 10 2012 10:49 RevRich wrote:On March 10 2012 10:37 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 10:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 10 2012 10:30 Gov wrote:
People went after EG's sponsors without even having an official response from EG about it?
Sometimes I hate what this community has become... they also contacted the NAACP. lol. I'd venture to bet the people who really raised hell and contacted sponsors and the NAACP were previous victims of Orb's rage. Karma's a bitch son ^This is how I feel about it. When you throw rage fits sprinkled with racist terms you make a lot of enemies. Having a lot of enemies has a tendency to bite you in the ass when it hurts the most. That doesn't leave me with a sense of fairness. Because for every offended ladder player, who apparently managed to really get offended instead of having fun at Orb's vulnerability to lose his composure so easily over something so small - like so many have teased him about since beta - but for every such player, there are potentially hundreds of viewers who are robbed of very high level game analysis in a SC2 cast. Ehh, plenty of good casters still out there. You hear the combos they had at IEM? Idra/Apollo, MrBitter/Idra/Dimaga, Grubby/Rotterdam. Soooo good
You'll only see 3 of those consistently.
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On March 10 2012 11:01 iloveAthene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 10:57 figq wrote:On March 10 2012 10:49 RevRich wrote:On March 10 2012 10:37 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 10:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 10 2012 10:30 Gov wrote:
People went after EG's sponsors without even having an official response from EG about it?
Sometimes I hate what this community has become... they also contacted the NAACP. lol. I'd venture to bet the people who really raised hell and contacted sponsors and the NAACP were previous victims of Orb's rage. Karma's a bitch son ^This is how I feel about it. When you throw rage fits sprinkled with racist terms you make a lot of enemies. Having a lot of enemies has a tendency to bite you in the ass when it hurts the most. That doesn't leave me with a sense of fairness. Because for every offended ladder player, who apparently managed to really get offended instead of having fun at Orb's vulnerability to lose his composure so easily over something so small - like so many have teased him about since beta - but for every such player, there are potentially hundreds of viewers who are robbed of very high level game analysis in a SC2 cast. Ehh, plenty of good casters still out there. You hear the combos they had at IEM? Idra/Apollo, MrBitter/Idra/Dimaga, Grubby/Rotterdam. Soooo good
Your examples aren't exactly making a strong case. =)
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On March 10 2012 10:59 Kevn23 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 10:55 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 10:52 Kevn23 wrote:
IF Orb was black, then this wouldn't have happened. Oh the double standard. You're right, IF Orb were black he probably wouldn't have used the word "nigger" to insult someone. Maybe would've said "faggot" instead Are you kidding? Blacks use the N word on with each other all the time.
"Nigga" yeah all the time but I've never heard "nigger". Not saying I don't believe you. I don't play Xbox or or Street Fighter or anything. My experience is all irl
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On March 10 2012 11:00 badcnr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 10:48 insearchof wrote:On March 10 2012 10:16 agfoxGnom wrote:
IdrA talks badmanner words since he was born and he is still in EG. Orb sayed some bad words at ladder and hes kicked - thats silly. Maybe Orb is not right, but thats ladder - everyone can talk there everything. A lot of EU progamers which are nice and cute on the scene, talk shitty words on ladder and no one punishes them.
First post is all about "we dont get big money from Orbs work so we will kick him and tell everyone that we are against racism - nice PR for us!", and if some of EG's players will talk something bad nothing will happen - because EG get big money from their players work. idra might say "fuck off" or something like that but never ever ever have i seen idra say "faggot" or "nigger" ever ever everrrrrrr... everyone cusses its pretty acceptable now but words like what orb used really are foul I have seen idra say faggot. I also seen a few EG's bash players. Which has to worse for the community than saying a bad word. Doesnt it make sense that EG gives lessons to people than have there top players go around bashing players saying they will never be any good. Or take idra saying apologize for the race. If he said that to a black player or a korean player do we assume he is talking about the game or the person behind the game ????
I think it's safe to assume that Alex is going to remind his players what EG's standards for conduct are now he's made it crystal clear how serious the consequences can be.
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On March 10 2012 11:01 iloveAthene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 10:57 figq wrote:On March 10 2012 10:49 RevRich wrote:On March 10 2012 10:37 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 10:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 10 2012 10:30 Gov wrote:
People went after EG's sponsors without even having an official response from EG about it?
Sometimes I hate what this community has become... they also contacted the NAACP. lol. I'd venture to bet the people who really raised hell and contacted sponsors and the NAACP were previous victims of Orb's rage. Karma's a bitch son ^This is how I feel about it. When you throw rage fits sprinkled with racist terms you make a lot of enemies. Having a lot of enemies has a tendency to bite you in the ass when it hurts the most. That doesn't leave me with a sense of fairness. Because for every offended ladder player, who apparently managed to really get offended instead of having fun at Orb's vulnerability to lose his composure so easily over something so small - like so many have teased him about since beta - but for every such player, there are potentially hundreds of viewers who are robbed of very high level game analysis in a SC2 cast. Ehh, plenty of good casters still out there. You hear the combos they had at IEM? Idra/Apollo, MrBitter/Idra/Dimaga, Grubby/Rotterdam. Soooo good That's true - Orb's level of casting in my book is only comparable to Artosis and active progamers - in every example you give there are active progamers. (by the way, I don't include Day[9], because his work is more specific, and I don't consider casting to be his main contribution to the community, his greatest strength is pure analysis, research and teaching)
Unfortunately, we can't rely consistently on active progamers to cast major long-term events, there's need of professional high-level casters.
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On March 10 2012 11:03 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 11:01 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 10:57 figq wrote:On March 10 2012 10:49 RevRich wrote:On March 10 2012 10:37 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 10:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 10 2012 10:30 Gov wrote:
People went after EG's sponsors without even having an official response from EG about it?
Sometimes I hate what this community has become... they also contacted the NAACP. lol. I'd venture to bet the people who really raised hell and contacted sponsors and the NAACP were previous victims of Orb's rage. Karma's a bitch son ^This is how I feel about it. When you throw rage fits sprinkled with racist terms you make a lot of enemies. Having a lot of enemies has a tendency to bite you in the ass when it hurts the most. That doesn't leave me with a sense of fairness. Because for every offended ladder player, who apparently managed to really get offended instead of having fun at Orb's vulnerability to lose his composure so easily over something so small - like so many have teased him about since beta - but for every such player, there are potentially hundreds of viewers who are robbed of very high level game analysis in a SC2 cast. Ehh, plenty of good casters still out there. You hear the combos they had at IEM? Idra/Apollo, MrBitter/Idra/Dimaga, Grubby/Rotterdam. Soooo good Your examples aren't exactly making a strong case. =)
=) Bro seriously they were so good. I hope more tourneys uses knocked out players as casters in the future
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On March 10 2012 11:06 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 11:01 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 10:57 figq wrote:On March 10 2012 10:49 RevRich wrote:On March 10 2012 10:37 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 10:34 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 10 2012 10:30 Gov wrote:
People went after EG's sponsors without even having an official response from EG about it?
Sometimes I hate what this community has become... they also contacted the NAACP. lol. I'd venture to bet the people who really raised hell and contacted sponsors and the NAACP were previous victims of Orb's rage. Karma's a bitch son ^This is how I feel about it. When you throw rage fits sprinkled with racist terms you make a lot of enemies. Having a lot of enemies has a tendency to bite you in the ass when it hurts the most. That doesn't leave me with a sense of fairness. Because for every offended ladder player, who apparently managed to really get offended instead of having fun at Orb's vulnerability to lose his composure so easily over something so small - like so many have teased him about since beta - but for every such player, there are potentially hundreds of viewers who are robbed of very high level game analysis in a SC2 cast. Ehh, plenty of good casters still out there. You hear the combos they had at IEM? Idra/Apollo, MrBitter/Idra/Dimaga, Grubby/Rotterdam. Soooo good That's true - Orb's level of casting in my book is only comparable to Artosis and active progamers - in every example you give there are active progamers. (by the way, I don't include Day[9], because his work is more specific, and I don't consider casting to be his main contribution to the community, his greatest strength is pure analysis, research and teaching) Unfortunately, we can't rely consistently on active progamers to cast major long-term events, there's need of professional high-level casters.
I know what you mean, I used to call Orb Artosis Jr. It's a damn shame for sure that he couldn't control his anger issues
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On March 10 2012 11:05 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 11:00 badcnr wrote:On March 10 2012 10:48 insearchof wrote:On March 10 2012 10:16 agfoxGnom wrote:
IdrA talks badmanner words since he was born and he is still in EG. Orb sayed some bad words at ladder and hes kicked - thats silly. Maybe Orb is not right, but thats ladder - everyone can talk there everything. A lot of EU progamers which are nice and cute on the scene, talk shitty words on ladder and no one punishes them.
First post is all about "we dont get big money from Orbs work so we will kick him and tell everyone that we are against racism - nice PR for us!", and if some of EG's players will talk something bad nothing will happen - because EG get big money from their players work. idra might say "fuck off" or something like that but never ever ever have i seen idra say "faggot" or "nigger" ever ever everrrrrrr... everyone cusses its pretty acceptable now but words like what orb used really are foul I have seen idra say faggot. I also seen a few EG's bash players. Which has to worse for the community than saying a bad word. Doesnt it make sense that EG gives lessons to people than have there top players go around bashing players saying they will never be any good. Or take idra saying apologize for the race. If he said that to a black player or a korean player do we assume he is talking about the game or the person behind the game ???? I think it's safe to assume that Alex is going to remind his players what EG's standards for conduct are now he's made it crystal clear how serious the consequences can be.
Oh i get it now. EG now decides to have a code of conduct.. Maybe they should have informed Orb
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On March 10 2012 08:16 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:12 sam!zdat wrote:On March 10 2012 08:11 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 08:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 10 2012 07:57 SeraKuDA wrote:On March 10 2012 07:16 threshy wrote:On March 10 2012 07:10 SeraKuDA wrote:
Oh what the hell... I don't even like orb's casting, but I feel sympathetic for him here. Who gives a shit about random words like that? It's not like we live in the 1950s. Times have changed. People are oversensitive sometimes, and they need to grow up. If you can't even say the word, let alone spell it I think you have a problem. If times have changed, why do so many people persist in using racist language? It's not as though times changing makes the language less racist (if you think it does, please explain your reasoning). Edit: note that I agree that times have changed in some ways--I just don't see how that's relevant here. Times have changed in the sense that the words don't have the same connotation to them. None of us grew up during slavery, and only our parents, and grandparents have a real understanding of what it was like to live in a very racist era. This is a new time, new generation, and our culture is diversified. The words don't carry the same weight they once did, and thus when spoken people generally aren't offended. It's the select few, the sensitive ones, that cry out over the use of them. Those people are the problem-starters. You know what? Fuck you and people like you who willfully remain grossly ignorant of the world in which we live. Try growing up as a minority. We have a very real understanding of what it's like to grow up in a very racist era. Would you like an example? When my family went to a restaurant during pride week in my city my father would not go to the bathroom by himself because "he didn't want the faggots doing anything to him in there." I am not being overly sensitive. I am reacting to a word that is regularly thrown in my face with hatred and vitriol. If you legitimately believe that nigger means the same thing today that it did 20 years ago you're completely lost. It doesn't have to mean the same thing in order to still be off limits. It's a word. Some people make a big deal out of it... Me making a noise with my mouth doesn't give you the right to attack me or something. It may bug you, but learn to deal with it because it's just a word that isn't harming you. There's a difference in calling someone a nigger and actually treating them differently because of skin color.
You've never heard of verbal abuse or assault? People get into fights, stabbed, even killed because words. Words mean things and you can't seem to get that pounded through your skull.
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It's kinda sad that even in the response comments people throw around derogatory terms so casually... OP was correct about it being in all parts of our culture. The OP is good if not a bit wordy. So sad to see Orb go, but this is how it is in the professional world. If hoping to maintain an industry I don't believe we can carry on so easily with this behavior, much wishes of good luck to EG, eSports, and Orb in the future. It is so sad to see a promising and talented casting career damaged by brash and irrational judgements in the past. Yet, if we don't learn our history we are doomed to repeat it. Hope I'm not overstepping my bounds :o
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On March 10 2012 11:09 badcnr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 11:05 Defacer wrote:On March 10 2012 11:00 badcnr wrote:On March 10 2012 10:48 insearchof wrote:On March 10 2012 10:16 agfoxGnom wrote:
IdrA talks badmanner words since he was born and he is still in EG. Orb sayed some bad words at ladder and hes kicked - thats silly. Maybe Orb is not right, but thats ladder - everyone can talk there everything. A lot of EU progamers which are nice and cute on the scene, talk shitty words on ladder and no one punishes them.
First post is all about "we dont get big money from Orbs work so we will kick him and tell everyone that we are against racism - nice PR for us!", and if some of EG's players will talk something bad nothing will happen - because EG get big money from their players work. idra might say "fuck off" or something like that but never ever ever have i seen idra say "faggot" or "nigger" ever ever everrrrrrr... everyone cusses its pretty acceptable now but words like what orb used really are foul I have seen idra say faggot. I also seen a few EG's bash players. Which has to worse for the community than saying a bad word. Doesnt it make sense that EG gives lessons to people than have there top players go around bashing players saying they will never be any good. Or take idra saying apologize for the race. If he said that to a black player or a korean player do we assume he is talking about the game or the person behind the game ???? I think it's safe to assume that Alex is going to remind his players what EG's standards for conduct are now he's made it crystal clear how serious the consequences can be. Oh i get it now. EG now decides to have a code of conduct.. Maybe they should have informed Orb
Informed Orb of what? That spewing racial slurs in fits of rage and no good reason whatsoever might bite you in the ass one day? Surprise! Would be pretty obvious to anyone that wasn't born in a bubble or wasn't completely self-absorbed.
BAWHOOOSH is the sound of Orb getting flushed by his own hand.
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A caster is the "face and voice" of the company.
Having the face of your company spouting off stupid shit like this is not good for business. Even though people like to pretend they do not intend it as racist the majority of people will. This includes the sponsors who pay for EG to exist.
Imagine a caster on Sports Center have a video leak of him playing a sport he commentates calling a bunch of people niggers.
As for the idra stuff yes he does get special treatment. This is real life. My boss is multi millionare. He goes to the Canucks games once a year with the guys from work and they all get super drunk, ruin the skybox they rent, throw food onto the ice during the game. He leaves a nice tip and guess what? The Canucks call him and ask him every year if he is coming again next season and when they can book him. Fuck the people who get coated in the food below the box, the people who clean the vomit, and fix the room. He has money so he does whatever the fuck he wants. People who are important get tons and tons of leniency. Imagine doing that shit in the stands you would be gone in a minute... So yes Idra who is hugely famous and is probably the most popular EG player will get some slack.
This thread reeks of internet tough guys who pretend they say nigger and faggot all of the time to sound cool and pretend they are "trivializing" the word. 4chan, the internet in general and reality are extremely different places and if you think in RL you can go spouting off about "niggers" and "faggots" and not get your ass kicked or fired your in for a rude awakening when you leave your parents basement.
edit: yes it sucks that this persons career has been greatly hurt but your actions have consequences. This is what the main stream is. Witch Hunts happen all the time look at that disney vs fat kids thread
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On March 10 2012 11:16 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 11:09 badcnr wrote:On March 10 2012 11:05 Defacer wrote:On March 10 2012 11:00 badcnr wrote:On March 10 2012 10:48 insearchof wrote:On March 10 2012 10:16 agfoxGnom wrote:
IdrA talks badmanner words since he was born and he is still in EG. Orb sayed some bad words at ladder and hes kicked - thats silly. Maybe Orb is not right, but thats ladder - everyone can talk there everything. A lot of EU progamers which are nice and cute on the scene, talk shitty words on ladder and no one punishes them.
First post is all about "we dont get big money from Orbs work so we will kick him and tell everyone that we are against racism - nice PR for us!", and if some of EG's players will talk something bad nothing will happen - because EG get big money from their players work. idra might say "fuck off" or something like that but never ever ever have i seen idra say "faggot" or "nigger" ever ever everrrrrrr... everyone cusses its pretty acceptable now but words like what orb used really are foul I have seen idra say faggot. I also seen a few EG's bash players. Which has to worse for the community than saying a bad word. Doesnt it make sense that EG gives lessons to people than have there top players go around bashing players saying they will never be any good. Or take idra saying apologize for the race. If he said that to a black player or a korean player do we assume he is talking about the game or the person behind the game ???? I think it's safe to assume that Alex is going to remind his players what EG's standards for conduct are now he's made it crystal clear how serious the consequences can be. Oh i get it now. EG now decides to have a code of conduct.. Maybe they should have informed Orb Informed Orb of what? That spewing racial slurs in fits of rage and no good reason whatsoever might bite you in the ass one day? Surprise! Would be pretty obvious to anyone that wasn't born in a bubble or wasn't completely self-absorbed. BAWHOOOSH is the sound of Orb getting flushed by his own hand.
You shouldn't hit enter like 7 times after your post, it makes a gap for no reason.
That said, if I were Orb, I would never have thought that saying "nigger" a year ago would hurt my position in EG given what Idra gets away with.
And for everyone else: EG has no integrity. People shouldn't be "proud" and shouldn't respect EG's decision of firing orb. They would have kept him if he had still been an asset. Alex has the morals of a turnip, that's how they make money - that's how money is made. I don't criticize that, their decision made sense - but don't act as if they were the Messiah.
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I cant believe people within out community feed this insanity. Instead of delivering the expected standard of today we should the standard of tomorrow, who can honestly say that society isn't shifting and changing, yet we are here stuck in this quagmire that we call modern day politics, I still believe there are enough of us within this community so that one day, when SC2 is as huge as it deserve to be, others will look in on us and say, wow, that's the standard we should set. We got off to a good start Liquid, with Sheth and TLO charity streaming events but we take more steps backwards than we do forwards whenever evens like this occur. Why care? There are so many other things to care about, for every person who says they care, or are offended by this event, should check out Kony 2012, I promise by the end of this video you will no longer even remember what this orb incident is about, we are a huge community, we all know many people and we spread all over this globe. We as a community have the chance to spread opinion and make a change, as opposed to living in the dredge of modern day.
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I don't fully understand what has happened. If I understand correctly though, Orb said things and did things back in 2003 when he was 9 years younger than he is now. At that time, he would've been what...around 14? If this is the case, all this is a bit overkill and overreaction in my opinion. It's almost like drama is manufactured out of old and mean-less dirt. People contacting sponsors of EG because of this is absurd in my opinion. EG is obviously a very serious team and one of the frontrunners of the Starcraft community. The outcome of people whining to sponsors can only be negative for the Starcraft community and e-sports in general. In other words, it would hurt us all. It's obviously not EG's fault that Orb said something and did something wrong when he was "a kid". Orb is a great caster, one of the very best. If he truly was racist he would say so, because that's what most racist people do. However, he doesn't seem to be racist at all judging from statements, etc. It seems to me that Orb just did some stupid mistake back in the days...something we've all done. Every single one in here. And for that people try to hurt the Starcraft community and EG as a team?
I really don't see the need for this post/news thread at all, it just feeds negativity, sorry.
Edit: If Orb is fired, Idra should be fired as well. Otherwise why should I continue to respect EG?
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EG's decision is a good one. I can understand them fully.
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On March 10 2012 11:36 bARBRO wrote:
I don't fully understand what has happened. If I understand correctly though, Orb said things and did things back in 2003 when he was 9 years younger than he is now.
You do not understand correctly.
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I didn't know that Idra used language like "faggot" in public, but knowing that, I think it's fairly obvious that there's a double standard here.
I also think that saying that people have some sort of moral obligation to retract their statements to their sponsors is a little too much. Nobody owes EG anything.
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EPT
