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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 10 2012 09:37 hunts wrote:
And the fact that people did a hotkey analysis and found the hotkeys and play to be exactly like orbs, and the fact that people saw orb watching that replay on his stream the next day? Yeah not orb man, his friend sent him the replay of him on his account playing like he does and raging like he does.
Just think about what you said here for a moment. The fact that this stuff is common knowledge makes it possible for it to imitated. What if Orb taught his friends how to play and they learned his hotkeys and stuff? You can hazard a guess, but it's not "WE MUST DESTROY YOUR CAREER" quality evidence.
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On March 10 2012 09:43 battyone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:37 hunts wrote:On March 10 2012 09:31 Okiesmokie wrote:On March 10 2012 09:30 Epoch wrote:On March 10 2012 09:25 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 09:22 Utinni wrote:On March 10 2012 09:20 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:19 Radin wrote:
Those of you claiming this isn't a big deal have obviously never been in a professional setting. It's not like Orb was making a drunken fool of himself at a bar (which would clearly be his personal life) - he was calling people niggers in Starcraft (the game he is contracted to cast).
The fact is, when you represent a professional organization you are held to a higher standard. No resepectable company would tolerate someone who represents them calling people niggers while attending (playing in this case) an event directly related to business. Not only is it immoral, it's horrible PR.
Orb chose this for himself. This was the correct move by EG. He did it long before he was contracted by EG though(to my knowledge). So I don't see how this is pertinent. Lying to EG saying it wasn't him. Sorta dropped the ball on that one. Don't lie to your employer. HE DIDN'T! Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread. Edit: I wanted to add something to this post due to something many of the responses have been touching on. Many people think that the fact that I have used this awful word in the past means that the first screenshot submitted was in fact myself, and that I lied to the community. This is simply not true. The first screenshot submitted, that I claimed was not me, was in fact not me. My original story still stands, the difference is that as soon as that screenshot came out on reddit, everyone started scrubbing through replays against me and all of my vods, searching for something to prove I am in fact racist. Thus the screenshots from statements I made 1+ year ago surfaced on reddit. Notice as soon as the first of these screenshots was released, I immediately owned up and apologized (as seen here). All of the evidence of me using the N word (which again, was 100% wrong by me) was from old screenshots/vods way before I was even talking to the EG guys, let alone representing them. Sorry for the confusion, I hope this clears up the issue with my perceived "dishonesty." Note in Alex Garfield's statement the supposed "lying" wasn't even an issue, rather just my actions and poor judgement.
As for the lateness in my final apology here and the accusations that I am only doing it now that EG has fired me, I was actually told specifically by EG management not to make any statements (on twitter, teamliquid, or reddit) until they had decided what to do about it and made their own statement. Sorry for this causing any doubt for people as to whether or not my apology is sincere! Are you kidding? That edit is the most obvious cover up for a lie there's ever been. I'm so sure that orb went to sleep one night an a friend hopped on his account and used language exactly consistent with what he's proven to use in the past... Give me a break. I'm glad you actually play this game, and are aware that anyone can use the exact same name as you  And the fact that people did a hotkey analysis and found the hotkeys and play to be exactly like orbs, and the fact that people saw orb watching that replay on his stream the next day? Yeah not orb man, his friend sent him the replay of him on his account playing like he does and raging like he does. Please link to the hotkey analysis, where we can get replays, etc.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318860 this thread has the links to where people on reddit proved it actually was orb.
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On March 10 2012 09:46 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:43 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 09:37 hunts wrote:On March 10 2012 09:31 Okiesmokie wrote:On March 10 2012 09:30 Epoch wrote:On March 10 2012 09:25 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 09:22 Utinni wrote:On March 10 2012 09:20 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:19 Radin wrote:
Those of you claiming this isn't a big deal have obviously never been in a professional setting. It's not like Orb was making a drunken fool of himself at a bar (which would clearly be his personal life) - he was calling people niggers in Starcraft (the game he is contracted to cast).
The fact is, when you represent a professional organization you are held to a higher standard. No resepectable company would tolerate someone who represents them calling people niggers while attending (playing in this case) an event directly related to business. Not only is it immoral, it's horrible PR.
Orb chose this for himself. This was the correct move by EG. He did it long before he was contracted by EG though(to my knowledge). So I don't see how this is pertinent. Lying to EG saying it wasn't him. Sorta dropped the ball on that one. Don't lie to your employer. HE DIDN'T! Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread. Edit: I wanted to add something to this post due to something many of the responses have been touching on. Many people think that the fact that I have used this awful word in the past means that the first screenshot submitted was in fact myself, and that I lied to the community. This is simply not true. The first screenshot submitted, that I claimed was not me, was in fact not me. My original story still stands, the difference is that as soon as that screenshot came out on reddit, everyone started scrubbing through replays against me and all of my vods, searching for something to prove I am in fact racist. Thus the screenshots from statements I made 1+ year ago surfaced on reddit. Notice as soon as the first of these screenshots was released, I immediately owned up and apologized (as seen here). All of the evidence of me using the N word (which again, was 100% wrong by me) was from old screenshots/vods way before I was even talking to the EG guys, let alone representing them. Sorry for the confusion, I hope this clears up the issue with my perceived "dishonesty." Note in Alex Garfield's statement the supposed "lying" wasn't even an issue, rather just my actions and poor judgement.
As for the lateness in my final apology here and the accusations that I am only doing it now that EG has fired me, I was actually told specifically by EG management not to make any statements (on twitter, teamliquid, or reddit) until they had decided what to do about it and made their own statement. Sorry for this causing any doubt for people as to whether or not my apology is sincere! Are you kidding? That edit is the most obvious cover up for a lie there's ever been. I'm so sure that orb went to sleep one night an a friend hopped on his account and used language exactly consistent with what he's proven to use in the past... Give me a break. I'm glad you actually play this game, and are aware that anyone can use the exact same name as you And the fact that people did a hotkey analysis and found the hotkeys and play to be exactly like orbs, and the fact that people saw orb watching that replay on his stream the next day? Yeah not orb man, his friend sent him the replay of him on his account playing like he does and raging like he does. Please link to the hotkey analysis, where we can get replays, etc. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318860 this thread has the links to where people on reddit proved it actually was orb.
That's evidence of the old stuff, nothing about the image that would have had anything to do with when Orb worked for EG...so yes he raged and said nigger in a game a year ago. Still has been 0 proof of the latest image, and where is the replay from the latest game (the one that sparked this whole shit storm.)
So where is the proof that he was lieing about his friend being on his account. You can make all the assumptions you want, orb has said "dumb nigger" and "nigger dumb" in the past, but it is not inconceivable that his other gamer friends would talk like he does. Innocent until proven guilty.
*EDIT -- to clarify, shouldn't the replay from the original BM screenshot be out there? Can we get our hands on this, load it into Sc2gears and compare/look for things that are indicative of the same player?
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On March 10 2012 09:50 battyone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:46 hunts wrote:On March 10 2012 09:43 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 09:37 hunts wrote:On March 10 2012 09:31 Okiesmokie wrote:On March 10 2012 09:30 Epoch wrote:On March 10 2012 09:25 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 09:22 Utinni wrote:On March 10 2012 09:20 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:19 Radin wrote:
Those of you claiming this isn't a big deal have obviously never been in a professional setting. It's not like Orb was making a drunken fool of himself at a bar (which would clearly be his personal life) - he was calling people niggers in Starcraft (the game he is contracted to cast).
The fact is, when you represent a professional organization you are held to a higher standard. No resepectable company would tolerate someone who represents them calling people niggers while attending (playing in this case) an event directly related to business. Not only is it immoral, it's horrible PR.
Orb chose this for himself. This was the correct move by EG. He did it long before he was contracted by EG though(to my knowledge). So I don't see how this is pertinent. Lying to EG saying it wasn't him. Sorta dropped the ball on that one. Don't lie to your employer. HE DIDN'T! Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread. Edit: I wanted to add something to this post due to something many of the responses have been touching on. Many people think that the fact that I have used this awful word in the past means that the first screenshot submitted was in fact myself, and that I lied to the community. This is simply not true. The first screenshot submitted, that I claimed was not me, was in fact not me. My original story still stands, the difference is that as soon as that screenshot came out on reddit, everyone started scrubbing through replays against me and all of my vods, searching for something to prove I am in fact racist. Thus the screenshots from statements I made 1+ year ago surfaced on reddit. Notice as soon as the first of these screenshots was released, I immediately owned up and apologized (as seen here). All of the evidence of me using the N word (which again, was 100% wrong by me) was from old screenshots/vods way before I was even talking to the EG guys, let alone representing them. Sorry for the confusion, I hope this clears up the issue with my perceived "dishonesty." Note in Alex Garfield's statement the supposed "lying" wasn't even an issue, rather just my actions and poor judgement.
As for the lateness in my final apology here and the accusations that I am only doing it now that EG has fired me, I was actually told specifically by EG management not to make any statements (on twitter, teamliquid, or reddit) until they had decided what to do about it and made their own statement. Sorry for this causing any doubt for people as to whether or not my apology is sincere! Are you kidding? That edit is the most obvious cover up for a lie there's ever been. I'm so sure that orb went to sleep one night an a friend hopped on his account and used language exactly consistent with what he's proven to use in the past... Give me a break. I'm glad you actually play this game, and are aware that anyone can use the exact same name as you And the fact that people did a hotkey analysis and found the hotkeys and play to be exactly like orbs, and the fact that people saw orb watching that replay on his stream the next day? Yeah not orb man, his friend sent him the replay of him on his account playing like he does and raging like he does. Please link to the hotkey analysis, where we can get replays, etc. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318860 this thread has the links to where people on reddit proved it actually was orb. That's evidence of the old stuff, nothing about the image that would have had anything to do with when Orb worked for EG...so yes he raged and said nigger in a game a year ago. Still has been 0 proof of the latest image, and where is the replay from the latest game (the one that sparked this whole shit storm.) So where is the proof that he was lieing about his friend being on his account. You can make all the assumptions you want, orb has said "dumb nigger" and "nigger dumb" in the past, but it is not inconceivable that his other gamer friends would talk like he does. Innocent until proven guilty.
A. This isn't criminal court
B. EG has the right to fire him
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On March 10 2012 09:57 iloveAthene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:50 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 09:46 hunts wrote:On March 10 2012 09:43 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 09:37 hunts wrote:On March 10 2012 09:31 Okiesmokie wrote:On March 10 2012 09:30 Epoch wrote:On March 10 2012 09:25 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 09:22 Utinni wrote:On March 10 2012 09:20 Megabuster123 wrote:
[quote]
He did it long before he was contracted by EG though(to my knowledge). So I don't see how this is pertinent. Lying to EG saying it wasn't him. Sorta dropped the ball on that one. Don't lie to your employer. HE DIDN'T! Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread. Edit: I wanted to add something to this post due to something many of the responses have been touching on. Many people think that the fact that I have used this awful word in the past means that the first screenshot submitted was in fact myself, and that I lied to the community. This is simply not true. The first screenshot submitted, that I claimed was not me, was in fact not me. My original story still stands, the difference is that as soon as that screenshot came out on reddit, everyone started scrubbing through replays against me and all of my vods, searching for something to prove I am in fact racist. Thus the screenshots from statements I made 1+ year ago surfaced on reddit. Notice as soon as the first of these screenshots was released, I immediately owned up and apologized (as seen here). All of the evidence of me using the N word (which again, was 100% wrong by me) was from old screenshots/vods way before I was even talking to the EG guys, let alone representing them. Sorry for the confusion, I hope this clears up the issue with my perceived "dishonesty." Note in Alex Garfield's statement the supposed "lying" wasn't even an issue, rather just my actions and poor judgement.
As for the lateness in my final apology here and the accusations that I am only doing it now that EG has fired me, I was actually told specifically by EG management not to make any statements (on twitter, teamliquid, or reddit) until they had decided what to do about it and made their own statement. Sorry for this causing any doubt for people as to whether or not my apology is sincere! Are you kidding? That edit is the most obvious cover up for a lie there's ever been. I'm so sure that orb went to sleep one night an a friend hopped on his account and used language exactly consistent with what he's proven to use in the past... Give me a break. I'm glad you actually play this game, and are aware that anyone can use the exact same name as you And the fact that people did a hotkey analysis and found the hotkeys and play to be exactly like orbs, and the fact that people saw orb watching that replay on his stream the next day? Yeah not orb man, his friend sent him the replay of him on his account playing like he does and raging like he does. Please link to the hotkey analysis, where we can get replays, etc. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318860 this thread has the links to where people on reddit proved it actually was orb. That's evidence of the old stuff, nothing about the image that would have had anything to do with when Orb worked for EG...so yes he raged and said nigger in a game a year ago. Still has been 0 proof of the latest image, and where is the replay from the latest game (the one that sparked this whole shit storm.) So where is the proof that he was lieing about his friend being on his account. You can make all the assumptions you want, orb has said "dumb nigger" and "nigger dumb" in the past, but it is not inconceivable that his other gamer friends would talk like he does. Innocent until proven guilty. A. This isn't criminal court B. EG has the right to fire him
So it's okay that we went internet mob justice because this isn't the court of law? Of course EG has the right to fire him, but I still think it was a bad decision. It was said he was spoken with and future actions would be held against him, then someone dug something up that's a year old and now he's fired.
How does that change the simple fact the guy is innocent until proven guilty, and we formed up the old lynch mob on an assumption...
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On March 10 2012 09:58 battyone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:57 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 09:50 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 09:46 hunts wrote:On March 10 2012 09:43 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 09:37 hunts wrote:On March 10 2012 09:31 Okiesmokie wrote:On March 10 2012 09:30 Epoch wrote:On March 10 2012 09:25 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 09:22 Utinni wrote:
[quote]
Lying to EG saying it wasn't him. Sorta dropped the ball on that one. Don't lie to your employer.
HE DIDN'T! Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread. Edit: I wanted to add something to this post due to something many of the responses have been touching on. Many people think that the fact that I have used this awful word in the past means that the first screenshot submitted was in fact myself, and that I lied to the community. This is simply not true. The first screenshot submitted, that I claimed was not me, was in fact not me. My original story still stands, the difference is that as soon as that screenshot came out on reddit, everyone started scrubbing through replays against me and all of my vods, searching for something to prove I am in fact racist. Thus the screenshots from statements I made 1+ year ago surfaced on reddit. Notice as soon as the first of these screenshots was released, I immediately owned up and apologized (as seen here). All of the evidence of me using the N word (which again, was 100% wrong by me) was from old screenshots/vods way before I was even talking to the EG guys, let alone representing them. Sorry for the confusion, I hope this clears up the issue with my perceived "dishonesty." Note in Alex Garfield's statement the supposed "lying" wasn't even an issue, rather just my actions and poor judgement.
As for the lateness in my final apology here and the accusations that I am only doing it now that EG has fired me, I was actually told specifically by EG management not to make any statements (on twitter, teamliquid, or reddit) until they had decided what to do about it and made their own statement. Sorry for this causing any doubt for people as to whether or not my apology is sincere! Are you kidding? That edit is the most obvious cover up for a lie there's ever been. I'm so sure that orb went to sleep one night an a friend hopped on his account and used language exactly consistent with what he's proven to use in the past... Give me a break. I'm glad you actually play this game, and are aware that anyone can use the exact same name as you And the fact that people did a hotkey analysis and found the hotkeys and play to be exactly like orbs, and the fact that people saw orb watching that replay on his stream the next day? Yeah not orb man, his friend sent him the replay of him on his account playing like he does and raging like he does. Please link to the hotkey analysis, where we can get replays, etc. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318860 this thread has the links to where people on reddit proved it actually was orb. That's evidence of the old stuff, nothing about the image that would have had anything to do with when Orb worked for EG...so yes he raged and said nigger in a game a year ago. Still has been 0 proof of the latest image, and where is the replay from the latest game (the one that sparked this whole shit storm.) So where is the proof that he was lieing about his friend being on his account. You can make all the assumptions you want, orb has said "dumb nigger" and "nigger dumb" in the past, but it is not inconceivable that his other gamer friends would talk like he does. Innocent until proven guilty. A. This isn't criminal court B. EG has the right to fire him So it's okay that we went internet mob justice because this isn't the court of law? Of course EG has the right to fire him, but I still think it was a bad decision. It was said he was spoken with and future actions would be held against him, then someone dug something up that's a year old and now he's fired. How does that change the simple fact the guy is innocent until proven guilty, and we formed up the old lynch mob on an assumption...
Sucks for him, what else is there to say? He should've owned up to his remarks instead of denying and then baiting Reddit into digging up more evidence.
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On March 10 2012 10:02 iloveAthene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:58 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 09:57 iloveAthene wrote:On March 10 2012 09:50 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 09:46 hunts wrote:On March 10 2012 09:43 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 09:37 hunts wrote:On March 10 2012 09:31 Okiesmokie wrote:On March 10 2012 09:30 Epoch wrote:On March 10 2012 09:25 sereniity wrote:
[quote]
HE DIDN'T!
Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread.
[quote] Are you kidding? That edit is the most obvious cover up for a lie there's ever been. I'm so sure that orb went to sleep one night an a friend hopped on his account and used language exactly consistent with what he's proven to use in the past... Give me a break. I'm glad you actually play this game, and are aware that anyone can use the exact same name as you And the fact that people did a hotkey analysis and found the hotkeys and play to be exactly like orbs, and the fact that people saw orb watching that replay on his stream the next day? Yeah not orb man, his friend sent him the replay of him on his account playing like he does and raging like he does. Please link to the hotkey analysis, where we can get replays, etc. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318860 this thread has the links to where people on reddit proved it actually was orb. That's evidence of the old stuff, nothing about the image that would have had anything to do with when Orb worked for EG...so yes he raged and said nigger in a game a year ago. Still has been 0 proof of the latest image, and where is the replay from the latest game (the one that sparked this whole shit storm.) So where is the proof that he was lieing about his friend being on his account. You can make all the assumptions you want, orb has said "dumb nigger" and "nigger dumb" in the past, but it is not inconceivable that his other gamer friends would talk like he does. Innocent until proven guilty. A. This isn't criminal court B. EG has the right to fire him So it's okay that we went internet mob justice because this isn't the court of law? Of course EG has the right to fire him, but I still think it was a bad decision. It was said he was spoken with and future actions would be held against him, then someone dug something up that's a year old and now he's fired. How does that change the simple fact the guy is innocent until proven guilty, and we formed up the old lynch mob on an assumption... Sucks for him, what else is there to say? He should've owned up to his remarks instead of denying and then baiting Reddit into digging up more evidence.
It's just weak, since he was always professional when he casted, had a talent for it, and literally packed his life up to move into the EG Lair and becuase people had mild butthurt and lots of time to dredge through his past he got shafted.
For the sake of argument let's say the recent BM wasn't him, then what was he fired for? Something that happened a year ago or was he fired because people got upset and wrote sponsors saying how bad EG is because they support racism, something I don't think was present in anything Orb said at all. (It's been discused to death a few times in this thread, but I am of the opinion that the word nigger has lost a lot of the power it held 30 years ago, a lot of it is because I hear it all the time, all around me, but whatever.)
At the end of the day Orb knows if he did or didn't say it, we are going to have our assumptions, but I still see no reason this guy lost his job, and for the 2nd time in as many weeks I've seen the community crucify someone. I can't help but imagine there are going to be a lot of people who think twice before putting themselves out there now, and we are the worse off for it.
I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on this, it is a contentious issue, but nowhere in the statement was Orbs alleged dishonesty brought up as a reason that he was terminated, but there was definately mention of sponsors and writing to them in the OP...I feel strongly that Orb should have been reprimanded, suspended, but not terminated. It's like winning the lottery then having the state dig up a parking ticket and take all the money away from you. Except you have to work a lot less harder to win the lottery than you do to make it in eSports casting.
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@ battyone
you don't seem to have any understanding of how businesses work. EG and their sponsors don't want to be associated with this kind of racist behavior, so they fired him. it doesn't matter if you think it was a mistake or what, it's not even close to a mistake for that one simple reason.
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edit: @ battyone
Have you heard Catz talk about Orb? Basically say he's always been hated by other players and it's widely know he's a whiny little bitch. If I had just heard him cast, I'd have been surprised. Did actually enjoy his analysis.
But his stream was a different story, constant crying. And not in a funny way like some streamers. Just obnoxious and annoying.
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On March 10 2012 10:11 Epoch wrote:
@ battyone
you don't seem to have any understanding of how businesses work. EG and their sponsors don't want to be associated with this kind of racist behavior, so they fired him. it doesn't matter if you think it was a mistake or what, it's not even close to a mistake for that one simple reason.
I am actually pretty well versed in how businnes, pr, and etc work. It had nothing to do with the behavior and much more to do with people going straight to the sponsors before EG even had time to act or determine anything on their own.
Reddit did not like hearing "we'll keep a tight leash on orb but we beleive him" and took a step that I feel damages us way more than it could ever possibly help us. What sane business is going to invest in a team where this kind of backlash can be drummed up? What sane person is going to put themselves out there knowing that the community will rip them to shreads if they are bored, in the name of internet flash mob mentality?
But keep on thinking this has 0 impact on how the entire SC2 community is viewed, this was an entirely cut and dry decision and there will be no far reaching impact or consequences, and I'm the one who has no understanding of how business works.
*EDIT @iloveAthene -- Precisely my point, he was extremely good as a commentator, and really proed it up when he was representing EG, or working a tourney. He was talented, entertaining, and everything that we wanted in a caster, but we had to dig up every skeleton in the closet in our quest to bring him down.
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Russian Federation367 Posts
IdrA talks badmanner words since he was born and he is still in EG. Orb sayed some bad words at ladder and hes kicked - thats silly. Maybe Orb is not right, but thats ladder - everyone can talk there everything. A lot of EU progamers which are nice and cute on the scene, talk shitty words on ladder and no one punishes them.
First post is all about "we dont get big money from Orbs work so we will kick him and tell everyone that we are against racism - nice PR for us!", and if some of EG's players will talk something bad nothing will happen - because EG get big money from their players work.
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On March 10 2012 10:14 iloveAthene wrote:
edit: @ battyone
Have you heard Catz talk about Orb? Basically say he's always been hated by other players and it's widely know he's a whiny little bitch. If I had just heard him cast, I'd have been surprised. Did actually enjoy his analysis.
But his stream was a different story, constant crying. And not in a funny way like some streamers. Just obnoxious and annoying.
What's funny is that I really enjoyed his casting, and had no idea about his personal stream or reputation until this incident.
But by your description, you make it sound like he was the exact kind of angry-nerd-gamer stereotype that large organizations like EG or MLG do NOT want to propagate.
Is that a valid assumption?
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On March 10 2012 10:16 agfoxGnom wrote:
IdrA talks badmanner words since he was born .
lol. idra came out of his mom's uterus and said "you should apologize for being the fairer sex."
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It's sad to see Orb go, to be honest, but it really was the best decision. Alex's post about racism in the gaming community contains a lot of prescience and ought to be read very carefully. He has had for a long time the impression that, thanks mainly to the demographics of the community, offensive language of a racist, sexist, or homophobic nature gets a pass when it really should not.
Orb's dismissal, as I understand it, is mostly EG's sponsor-related business choice, but is incidentally a very good message that the community needs to recieve. Either esports is a serious business with real mainstream potential, or it isn't. It's a fact that no mainstream sports community in America (or up here in Canada) lets its casters or top players/athletes get away with overt racism. In addition to being immoral, that kind of stuff will discredit an entire community to the extent that the community condones or passively accepts it. Just for exmple, even in NASCAR, perhaps the whitest straightest male-est sport on the planet, casters and drivers act professionally because that's a necessary condition of running a successful business, period.
So, contrary to what a lot of posters believe, it is a big deal. For SC2 to become mainstream, it can't be comprised of professionals who alienate an entire gender, or an entire ethnic minority, or an entire class of sexual preference. I feel really bad for Orb, because he's a young guy and it's obviously just a case of BM getting a little out of hand, and the offense he committed happened before he had any idea he'd someday become accountable for it professionally. That is, in ways, very unfair. Under the law, a person can't legally be arrested retroactively just because his past action has recently been legislated a crime. But in a public arena, your past actions will be investigated and made known the more famous you become, and often they come back to haunt you. That's just the way things are, and there's a logic to it.
Anyway, I'll still watch you Orb, and if in the future you pick up another casting gig, I'll tune in.
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On March 10 2012 10:16 battyone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 10:11 Epoch wrote:
@ battyone
you don't seem to have any understanding of how businesses work. EG and their sponsors don't want to be associated with this kind of racist behavior, so they fired him. it doesn't matter if you think it was a mistake or what, it's not even close to a mistake for that one simple reason. I am actually pretty well versed in how businnes, pr, and etc work. It had nothing to do with the behavior and much more to do with people going straight to the sponsors before EG even had time to act or determine anything on their own. Reddit did not like hearing "we'll keep a tight leash on orb but we beleive him" and took a step that I feel damages us way more than it could ever possibly help us. What sane business is going to invest in a team where this kind of backlash can be drummed up? What sane person is going to put themselves out there knowing that the community will rip them to shreads if they are bored, in the name of internet flash mob mentality? But keep on thinking this has 0 impact on how the entire SC2 community is viewed, this was an entirely cut and dry decision and there will be no far reaching impact or consequences, and I'm the one who has no understanding of how business works. *EDIT @iloveAthene -- Precisely my point, he was extremely good as a commentator, and really proed it up when he was representing EG, or working a tourney. He was talented, entertaining, and everything that we wanted in a caster, but we had to dig up every skeleton in the closet in our quest to bring him down.
rush limbaugh agrees with you. only bitches and sluts go after his sponsors.
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On March 10 2012 10:26 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 10:16 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 10:11 Epoch wrote:
@ battyone
you don't seem to have any understanding of how businesses work. EG and their sponsors don't want to be associated with this kind of racist behavior, so they fired him. it doesn't matter if you think it was a mistake or what, it's not even close to a mistake for that one simple reason. I am actually pretty well versed in how businnes, pr, and etc work. It had nothing to do with the behavior and much more to do with people going straight to the sponsors before EG even had time to act or determine anything on their own. Reddit did not like hearing "we'll keep a tight leash on orb but we beleive him" and took a step that I feel damages us way more than it could ever possibly help us. What sane business is going to invest in a team where this kind of backlash can be drummed up? What sane person is going to put themselves out there knowing that the community will rip them to shreads if they are bored, in the name of internet flash mob mentality? But keep on thinking this has 0 impact on how the entire SC2 community is viewed, this was an entirely cut and dry decision and there will be no far reaching impact or consequences, and I'm the one who has no understanding of how business works. *EDIT @iloveAthene -- Precisely my point, he was extremely good as a commentator, and really proed it up when he was representing EG, or working a tourney. He was talented, entertaining, and everything that we wanted in a caster, but we had to dig up every skeleton in the closet in our quest to bring him down. rush limbaugh agrees with you. only bitches and sluts go after his sponsors.
You couldn't be further off from where I lie on the political spectrum if you tried. :/
Thanks for equating me with someone I hate because I think this mob justice was wrong, and a valuable asset to our community was demolished, very tastefully done I might add.
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People went after EG's sponsors without even having an official response from EG about it?
Sometimes I hate what this community has become...
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On March 10 2012 10:20 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 10:14 iloveAthene wrote:
edit: @ battyone
Have you heard Catz talk about Orb? Basically say he's always been hated by other players and it's widely know he's a whiny little bitch. If I had just heard him cast, I'd have been surprised. Did actually enjoy his analysis.
But his stream was a different story, constant crying. And not in a funny way like some streamers. Just obnoxious and annoying. What's funny is that I really enjoyed his casting, and had no idea about his personal stream or reputation until this incident. But by your description, you make it sound like he was the exact kind of angry-nerd-gamer stereotype that large organizations like EG or MLG do NOT want to propagate. Is that a valid assumption?
Quite valid, perhaps EG should have spoken to a few players and gotten their input before the hiring. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, who knows?
Maybe they knew about his behavior and his thought casting ability overshadowed his bad manners. Getting a good caster for a cheap price may have been too good of a deal to pass up in EG's eyes.
Most likely we'll never know. All we do know is that it was a mistake.
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Thank you so much Alex, I really thick you acted correctly here. You won some big respect here.
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On March 10 2012 10:22 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 10:16 agfoxGnom wrote:
IdrA talks badmanner words since he was born . lol. idra came out of his mom's uterus and said "you should apologize for being the fairer sex."
lol o god well played
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EPT
