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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
This is important for everyone to realize because it's very ambiguous in Alex's post until the very end.
EG did not fire orb for using the language he used in the past. EG fired orb because EG's sponsers do not want to be associated with racism no matter what the context.
Of course EG knew about orb's ladder-rage. It's arguably one of the only reasons he's so popular. When that fact was made hyper-public (a la Reddit), the sponsers either caught wind of it there or were contacted with complaints. This is why orb was fired.
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On March 10 2012 09:22 Utinni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:20 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:19 Radin wrote:
Those of you claiming this isn't a big deal have obviously never been in a professional setting. It's not like Orb was making a drunken fool of himself at a bar (which would clearly be his personal life) - he was calling people niggers in Starcraft (the game he is contracted to cast).
The fact is, when you represent a professional organization you are held to a higher standard. No resepectable company would tolerate someone who represents them calling people niggers while attending (playing in this case) an event directly related to business. Not only is it immoral, it's horrible PR.
Orb chose this for himself. This was the correct move by EG. He did it long before he was contracted by EG though(to my knowledge). So I don't see how this is pertinent. Lying to EG saying it wasn't him. Sorta dropped the ball on that one. Don't lie to your employer.
HE DIDN'T!
Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread.
Edit: I wanted to add something to this post due to something many of the responses have been touching on. Many people think that the fact that I have used this awful word in the past means that the first screenshot submitted was in fact myself, and that I lied to the community. This is simply not true. The first screenshot submitted, that I claimed was not me, was in fact not me. My original story still stands, the difference is that as soon as that screenshot came out on reddit, everyone started scrubbing through replays against me and all of my vods, searching for something to prove I am in fact racist. Thus the screenshots from statements I made 1+ year ago surfaced on reddit. Notice as soon as the first of these screenshots was released, I immediately owned up and apologized (as seen here). All of the evidence of me using the N word (which again, was 100% wrong by me) was from old screenshots/vods way before I was even talking to the EG guys, let alone representing them. Sorry for the confusion, I hope this clears up the issue with my perceived "dishonesty." Note in Alex Garfield's statement the supposed "lying" wasn't even an issue, rather just my actions and poor judgement.
As for the lateness in my final apology here and the accusations that I am only doing it now that EG has fired me, I was actually told specifically by EG management not to make any statements (on twitter, teamliquid, or reddit) until they had decided what to do about it and made their own statement. Sorry for this causing any doubt for people as to whether or not my apology is sincere!
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On March 10 2012 09:24 aznball123 wrote:
Ehh, The 'n' word is used so differently now a days, especially people who come from the ghetto. I really don't think using the 'n' word is considered racist anymore, people just overlook it, BUT using it in the professional scene is definitely uncalled for. You should always watch yourself with what you say, especially if you have influential power.
I am sure if you went to the ghetto, and called them the n word... they would consider it racist. and you would be silenced quickly.
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So tired of ppl arguing that you need to shape up your language so sc2 can be accepted by a wider audience...
You should shape up your language because its the right thing to do.
If you want a game that is accepted by the masses please do us all a favor and switch to LOL........
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On March 10 2012 09:26 Utinni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:24 aznball123 wrote:
Ehh, The 'n' word is used so differently now a days, especially people who come from the ghetto. I really don't think using the 'n' word is considered racist anymore, people just overlook it, BUT using it in the professional scene is definitely uncalled for. You should always watch yourself with what you say, especially if you have influential power. I am sure if you went to the ghetto, and called them the n word... they would consider it racist. and you would be silenced quickly.
Depends on if your black, I'm going to assume Canadian and American ghetto's are somewhat similar and say that in my personal experience they don't really give a shit as long as you're not white. Which I suppose is another form of racism no one really gives a shit about.
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So .. lets get clear on this:
'Nigger' is always bad- and should really never be used by anyone
TRUE
Unless you are black, using it with somebody else that's black. Then its better than ok: it's 'cool'.
But for everyone else in any other context - it's totally the opposite of cool.
TRUE
Unless you are a young, white, suburban male who - starting sometime in the 1990's moving forward - decided
black culture and hip-hop were so 'cool' that they wanted to be a part of it.
So they pretended to be black. And started calling each other 'niggah'
So .... it's ok for white hip-hop kids to use with other white kids.
But only if it's done with love, and respect for hip-hop culture
... TRUE (?)
But if you're black - and take offense to it regardless, then the white kids should quit.
Because it's 'their' word and nobody else should use it. Without permision
TRUE
Sometimes black guys and white guys that are really good buddies, can use the word with each other
and laugh. Because they give each other a kind of permission
TRUE
So ...
In Summary:
It's always a bad horrible word - CHECK
Unless you're black, with someone else black - CHECK
So, should NEVER be used by anyone else - CHECK
Unless ... you're using it with love and respect for hip-hop culture - CHECK
But if you are made aware you DON'T have permission to use it, you should stop - CHECK
And ultimately:
If you are dumb enough to use it in a public forum without taking all of this into account, you can get fired for it.
CHECK
Everybody clear on that? 
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On March 10 2012 08:24 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:16 enanoretozon wrote:
Personally I think this focus on nigger as poster-word of discrimination and such is pretty ridiculous.
As a Panamanian/Soviet (it was soviet in my time!) I've been called beaner, spic, mexican (lol?) to my face by black people in Atlanta when I went to the states on vacation in 2003. White guys accelerated their step when I was trying to ask for directions and one even said something about having no change. Spanish people think I'm a dumb sudaca that lives in trees. Well, americans also frequently think Panamanians live in trees and I still vividly remember the attitude, the looks and disdain of many americans here when they had their bases in my country. I am too dark for ukranians, too gringo-looking for panamanians, too puertoricany for americans, etc. etc. This is to my face, online? just multiply that by a large number. As an atheist I have also no shortage of hate directed towards me from every sort of religious variation.
My point is, *people*, human beings all over the world sure love their racism, their labels, their regionalism and especially their discrimination. The labels and such are the excuse to treat someone in a certain way. More on topic: All this drama about what that Orb guy said, only makes me think one thing:
Get over yourselves for pete's sake...
Ooo he said nigger. From the reaction I've seen you'd think he made freaking hats out of babies. And people patting themselves in the back, yeah SC2 community so mature, zero tolerance towards intolerance.
Disgusting... Sounds like you chose a pretty crappy vacation spot. It's totally mind boggling how a little bm in a ladder game garners a mass response like this. Jesus. He's not even a big figurehead in the community.
My friend said the same thing
Actually my vacation was in Orlando, but I had to spend some 8 hours in Atlanta between flights so I did some local tourism. Funny thing is that with some people I looked about an acceptable skin shade I guess but the moment I said something my accent betrayed me and attitudes changed. Too close to 9/11 perhaps? o_O
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On March 10 2012 09:26 Utinni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:24 aznball123 wrote:
Ehh, The 'n' word is used so differently now a days, especially people who come from the ghetto. I really don't think using the 'n' word is considered racist anymore, people just overlook it, BUT using it in the professional scene is definitely uncalled for. You should always watch yourself with what you say, especially if you have influential power. I am sure if you went to the ghetto, and called them the n word... they would consider it racist. and you would be silenced quickly.
The fact that you're insinuating that black people only live in "ghettos," or that black people are the only people that live there, is pretty racist in itself.
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On March 10 2012 09:22 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:19 figq wrote:On March 10 2012 09:13 teamsolid wrote:On March 10 2012 08:44 figq wrote:Alright, I apologize for having to post a third time about the same topic, apparently my thoughts about it come to me very slowly. My previous two responses were about EG's policy, because their official decision can be associated with them as an organization: + Show Spoiler [previous posts] +On March 09 2012 13:20 figq wrote:
Well, EG is free to hire and fire whoever they want, and the esports audience is free to follow Orb's excellent casting to whatever other leagues that are lucky enough to get him as a caster.
As I said in the other thread, I consider all this in the end more of an attack that hurts EG (for losing Orb as a caster), than an attack that hurts Orb, who will continue to be such a great caster anyway, and probably find an even better position. On March 09 2012 23:27 figq wrote:
As I said before, EG, of course, is free to hire and fire people as they wish, but after some more contemplation, I can't hide that I'm personally disappointed with EG (yet again). In a case that revolves around what usually would be called "progressive thinking" (though I dislike the term, as I find it absurd and relative), issuing any kind of irreversible punishment is disturbing. The whole premise of overcoming any kind of bigotry and segregation is the belief in the human ability to adapt, change, evolve and not be set in stone by the past. In view of this, I find it disheartening to see doors being closed forever, for anyone, even for a murderer, let alone for a verbal abuser. That's not a sign of purity of principles, but rather a sign of fear and weakness. It took me some time to realize what was it that I found so subtly disturbing in EG's official position, and then I realized it was this. However, this post is more about Alex Garfield's personal reasoning, which he outlines so eloquently in the OP, and which of course cannot be fully attributed to EG as a whole. Three things bothered me about the presentation of the case by Alex. First of all, he didn't manage to convince me. He had a very interesting preface designed around pointing out how much he can't stand a word. Then he proceeded to announce that his employee is therefore fired, never to return. Sure, a CEO's decision-making process is solely under his own power, and dictatorship, if you will. But then again why is this decision-making even presented to the public. It didn't seem substantiated enough for me. Basically, it's at the same level as "I hate black people, so I fired that black guy". I'm trying to be supportive of Alex about his personal phobia of the word "nigger", but I wouldn't expect a CEO to be so open about applying professional decisions about people's career, based on his own personal reaction towards something as simple as a word. And then the second thing to mention - though both are obviously inseparable - is just the fact that a CEO would be so vulnerable, in his reasoning, to a word, by itself. As far as not willing to write it, read it, hear it. You know, most German people I've met don't have such fearful reaction about Hitler jokes, the holocaust, or swastikas. They appreciate context, humor, intent. In Slasher's public shows, you can often hear jew jokes, and Slasher himself laughs about them, or even initiates them. Why is that? It's because it's more important what people actually mean. I can write a system of equations using for variables "nigger", "nigger1", "nigger2"...; the equations work just the same. Has mathematics not witnessed the centuries of oppression? It has, it existed all along, but it doesn't care about formal sequences of characters, only about the value you put behind them. I can write a computer program and replace all identifiers in it with "nigger", "nigger1", "nigger2"...; the program works just the same. It's also based inherently on the formal languages that have basis in mathematics and more specifically logic. The understanding that there's a great separation between an identifier and the value that it carries is fundamental for the existence of modern computers - and thus computer games. So, especially in the gaming community, people are much more likely to comprehend that difference between symbols, avatars, nicknames, and the actual value behind them. I'm surprised, and a little scared, that a CEO within the gaming industry would have so much hard time given by a word. And that it would be so difficult to separate all its historical connotations with its meaning in a completely different context. Finally, the third thing that bothers me is that apparently the intention is of so very little value. So Alex admits that he doesn't really think Orb to be a racist. Good, I'm glad about that. Apparently that's not enough though, because just calling someone "racist" nowadays is of almost no meaning, as Alex again so very well has described. Then it becomes unclear exactly what is the accusation towards Orb. Apparently his behavior did contain a trait of what could be seen in our modern day as racially offensive language and that's enough for him to be fired, never to return. What about his intentions? If we all agree that in fact he never had any racially offensive intentions to mind and separating people by their color hasn't been a part of his real life reasoning, then again what is his real fault? Is his fault entirely formal, is there any substance to it? It bothers me that a formal fault would be more important than a true character evaluation. For all we know, someone could be an active racist - to the point of actually discriminating people of other races when having the opportunity to get away with it, but still maintain a completely clean sheet in the formal department. Isn't it really more important to analyze people's real intentions and goals rather than their formal means? So to summarize my three posts and their points: - EG is free to conduct their business as they wish, of course - EG loses more than Orb, the attack here could have been against EG - "Progressive" reasoning should not lead to irreversible punishment, even for a murderer - The transition to the decision itself was not convincing enough, and too personal - A CEO in the gaming industry should not be so intimidated by identifiers, by themselves - Value should be more important than a formal expression, especially in the gaming community That said, despite a lot of criticism in my posts, I enjoy Alex's presentations a lot, they are always so educating, well written and a pleasure to read, even when I disagree with many points. So, I thank you. Alex, for taking time to write to us, and I would greatly appreciate any future threads of yours too, hopefully on less troubling matters for EG. It's not just "formal" when you have a team and corporate sponsors involved. Even if Alex doesn't believe Orb is racist, at least a portion of the general public now believes he is because of his usage of the word nigger. So it's bad for their image, period. That is the substance. I can see that it could seem that way, yeah. Although I'm not even sure how big is the portion of the general public to think that way, and how important it is for the real profit of EG's sponsors. For all we know, a small group of people, who were angered by Orb's ladder behavior in the past, managed to be loud enough at the sponsors' doors, to get him fired. (and now probably wonder "Wait, why did we even do that?", after it's done) If you read Alex's addendum, he's already begging people to be patient before complaining to EG's sponsors. So it doesn't even matter exactly how large the group is, they're making themselves heard loud and clear to the people who call the shots. He mentions it not only in the addendum, by the way, and I'm aware of it. On the other hand, he didn't choose to present the case simply as: "Listen guys, I don't know what you all have done, or what that Orb guy has done, but the result is sponsors are giving me hell, and so I have no choice but to fire the guy. Sorry and gl!", he tried to present other reasons behind the decision, so I went on and tried to analyze those too.
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On March 10 2012 09:25 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:22 Utinni wrote:On March 10 2012 09:20 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:19 Radin wrote:
Those of you claiming this isn't a big deal have obviously never been in a professional setting. It's not like Orb was making a drunken fool of himself at a bar (which would clearly be his personal life) - he was calling people niggers in Starcraft (the game he is contracted to cast).
The fact is, when you represent a professional organization you are held to a higher standard. No resepectable company would tolerate someone who represents them calling people niggers while attending (playing in this case) an event directly related to business. Not only is it immoral, it's horrible PR.
Orb chose this for himself. This was the correct move by EG. He did it long before he was contracted by EG though(to my knowledge). So I don't see how this is pertinent. Lying to EG saying it wasn't him. Sorta dropped the ball on that one. Don't lie to your employer. HE DIDN'T! Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread. Show nested quote +Edit: I wanted to add something to this post due to something many of the responses have been touching on. Many people think that the fact that I have used this awful word in the past means that the first screenshot submitted was in fact myself, and that I lied to the community. This is simply not true. The first screenshot submitted, that I claimed was not me, was in fact not me. My original story still stands, the difference is that as soon as that screenshot came out on reddit, everyone started scrubbing through replays against me and all of my vods, searching for something to prove I am in fact racist. Thus the screenshots from statements I made 1+ year ago surfaced on reddit. Notice as soon as the first of these screenshots was released, I immediately owned up and apologized (as seen here). All of the evidence of me using the N word (which again, was 100% wrong by me) was from old screenshots/vods way before I was even talking to the EG guys, let alone representing them. Sorry for the confusion, I hope this clears up the issue with my perceived "dishonesty." Note in Alex Garfield's statement the supposed "lying" wasn't even an issue, rather just my actions and poor judgement.
As for the lateness in my final apology here and the accusations that I am only doing it now that EG has fired me, I was actually told specifically by EG management not to make any statements (on twitter, teamliquid, or reddit) until they had decided what to do about it and made their own statement. Sorry for this causing any doubt for people as to whether or not my apology is sincere!
Are you kidding? That edit is the most obvious cover up for a lie there's ever been. I'm so sure that orb went to sleep one night an a friend hopped on his account and used language exactly consistent with what he's proven to use in the past... Give me a break.
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On March 10 2012 09:28 Von wrote:So .. lets get clear on this: 'Nigger' is always bad- and should really never be used by anyone TRUE Unless you are black, using it with somebody else that's black. Then its better than ok: it's 'cool'. But for everyone else in any other context - it's totally the opposite of cool. TRUE Unless you are a young, white, suburban male who - starting sometime in the 1990's moving forward - decided black culture and hip-hop were so 'cool' that they wanted to be a part of it. So they pretended to be black. And started calling each other 'niggah' So .... it's ok for white hip-hop kids to use with other white kids. But only if it's done with love, and respect for hip-hop culture ... TRUE (?) But if you're black - and take offense to it regardless, then the white kids should quit. Because it's 'their' word and nobody else should use it. Without permision TRUE Sometimes black guys and white guys that are really good buddies, can use the word with each other and laugh. Because they give each other a kind of permission TRUE So ... In Summary: It's always a bad horrible word - CHECK Unless you're black, with someone else black - CHECK So, should NEVER be used by anyone else - CHECK Unless ... you're using it with love and respect for hip-hop culture - CHECK But if you are made aware you DON'T have permission to use it, you should stop - CHECK And ultimately: If you are dumb enough to use it in a public forum without taking all of this into account, you can get fired for it. CHECK Everybody clear on that?
Pretty much spot on.
I don't see why people are surprised or get upset when they find out how complicated relations between social groups can be.
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On March 10 2012 09:30 Epoch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:25 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 09:22 Utinni wrote:On March 10 2012 09:20 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:19 Radin wrote:
Those of you claiming this isn't a big deal have obviously never been in a professional setting. It's not like Orb was making a drunken fool of himself at a bar (which would clearly be his personal life) - he was calling people niggers in Starcraft (the game he is contracted to cast).
The fact is, when you represent a professional organization you are held to a higher standard. No resepectable company would tolerate someone who represents them calling people niggers while attending (playing in this case) an event directly related to business. Not only is it immoral, it's horrible PR.
Orb chose this for himself. This was the correct move by EG. He did it long before he was contracted by EG though(to my knowledge). So I don't see how this is pertinent. Lying to EG saying it wasn't him. Sorta dropped the ball on that one. Don't lie to your employer. HE DIDN'T! Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread. Edit: I wanted to add something to this post due to something many of the responses have been touching on. Many people think that the fact that I have used this awful word in the past means that the first screenshot submitted was in fact myself, and that I lied to the community. This is simply not true. The first screenshot submitted, that I claimed was not me, was in fact not me. My original story still stands, the difference is that as soon as that screenshot came out on reddit, everyone started scrubbing through replays against me and all of my vods, searching for something to prove I am in fact racist. Thus the screenshots from statements I made 1+ year ago surfaced on reddit. Notice as soon as the first of these screenshots was released, I immediately owned up and apologized (as seen here). All of the evidence of me using the N word (which again, was 100% wrong by me) was from old screenshots/vods way before I was even talking to the EG guys, let alone representing them. Sorry for the confusion, I hope this clears up the issue with my perceived "dishonesty." Note in Alex Garfield's statement the supposed "lying" wasn't even an issue, rather just my actions and poor judgement.
As for the lateness in my final apology here and the accusations that I am only doing it now that EG has fired me, I was actually told specifically by EG management not to make any statements (on twitter, teamliquid, or reddit) until they had decided what to do about it and made their own statement. Sorry for this causing any doubt for people as to whether or not my apology is sincere! Are you kidding? That edit is the most obvious cover up for a lie there's ever been. I'm so sure that orb went to sleep one night an a friend hopped on his account and used language exactly consistent with what he's proven to use in the past... Give me a break.
I'm glad you actually play this game, and are aware that anyone can use the exact same name as you
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On March 10 2012 09:31 Okiesmokie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:30 Epoch wrote:On March 10 2012 09:25 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 09:22 Utinni wrote:On March 10 2012 09:20 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:19 Radin wrote:
Those of you claiming this isn't a big deal have obviously never been in a professional setting. It's not like Orb was making a drunken fool of himself at a bar (which would clearly be his personal life) - he was calling people niggers in Starcraft (the game he is contracted to cast).
The fact is, when you represent a professional organization you are held to a higher standard. No resepectable company would tolerate someone who represents them calling people niggers while attending (playing in this case) an event directly related to business. Not only is it immoral, it's horrible PR.
Orb chose this for himself. This was the correct move by EG. He did it long before he was contracted by EG though(to my knowledge). So I don't see how this is pertinent. Lying to EG saying it wasn't him. Sorta dropped the ball on that one. Don't lie to your employer. HE DIDN'T! Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread. Edit: I wanted to add something to this post due to something many of the responses have been touching on. Many people think that the fact that I have used this awful word in the past means that the first screenshot submitted was in fact myself, and that I lied to the community. This is simply not true. The first screenshot submitted, that I claimed was not me, was in fact not me. My original story still stands, the difference is that as soon as that screenshot came out on reddit, everyone started scrubbing through replays against me and all of my vods, searching for something to prove I am in fact racist. Thus the screenshots from statements I made 1+ year ago surfaced on reddit. Notice as soon as the first of these screenshots was released, I immediately owned up and apologized (as seen here). All of the evidence of me using the N word (which again, was 100% wrong by me) was from old screenshots/vods way before I was even talking to the EG guys, let alone representing them. Sorry for the confusion, I hope this clears up the issue with my perceived "dishonesty." Note in Alex Garfield's statement the supposed "lying" wasn't even an issue, rather just my actions and poor judgement.
As for the lateness in my final apology here and the accusations that I am only doing it now that EG has fired me, I was actually told specifically by EG management not to make any statements (on twitter, teamliquid, or reddit) until they had decided what to do about it and made their own statement. Sorry for this causing any doubt for people as to whether or not my apology is sincere! Are you kidding? That edit is the most obvious cover up for a lie there's ever been. I'm so sure that orb went to sleep one night an a friend hopped on his account and used language exactly consistent with what he's proven to use in the past... Give me a break. I'm glad you actually play this game, and are aware that anyone can use the exact same name as you
What? Of course I know that. I'm master as 2 diff races I'm pretty sure I play this game. And orb's story is that he went to sleep one night when he had friends over and they said that stuff on his account. Because it was proven to be his account. You don't even know the story.
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On March 10 2012 09:31 iloveAthene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:28 Von wrote:So .. lets get clear on this: 'Nigger' is always bad- and should really never be used by anyone TRUE Unless you are black, using it with somebody else that's black. Then its better than ok: it's 'cool'. But for everyone else in any other context - it's totally the opposite of cool. TRUE Unless you are a young, white, suburban male who - starting sometime in the 1990's moving forward - decided black culture and hip-hop were so 'cool' that they wanted to be a part of it. So they pretended to be black. And started calling each other 'niggah' So .... it's ok for white hip-hop kids to use with other white kids. But only if it's done with love, and respect for hip-hop culture ... TRUE (?) But if you're black - and take offense to it regardless, then the white kids should quit. Because it's 'their' word and nobody else should use it. Without permision TRUE Sometimes black guys and white guys that are really good buddies, can use the word with each other and laugh. Because they give each other a kind of permission TRUE So ... In Summary: It's always a bad horrible word - CHECK Unless you're black, with someone else black - CHECK So, should NEVER be used by anyone else - CHECK Unless ... you're using it with love and respect for hip-hop culture - CHECK But if you are made aware you DON'T have permission to use it, you should stop - CHECK And ultimately: If you are dumb enough to use it in a public forum without taking all of this into account, you can get fired for it. CHECK Everybody clear on that? Pretty much spot on. I don't see why people are surprised or get upset when they find out how complicated relations between social groups can be.
because words mean whatever, man
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Word policing has been out of hand for years. It was only a matter of time before it finally crept into the eSports realm.
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On March 10 2012 09:34 Epoch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:31 Okiesmokie wrote:On March 10 2012 09:30 Epoch wrote:On March 10 2012 09:25 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 09:22 Utinni wrote:On March 10 2012 09:20 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:19 Radin wrote:
Those of you claiming this isn't a big deal have obviously never been in a professional setting. It's not like Orb was making a drunken fool of himself at a bar (which would clearly be his personal life) - he was calling people niggers in Starcraft (the game he is contracted to cast).
The fact is, when you represent a professional organization you are held to a higher standard. No resepectable company would tolerate someone who represents them calling people niggers while attending (playing in this case) an event directly related to business. Not only is it immoral, it's horrible PR.
Orb chose this for himself. This was the correct move by EG. He did it long before he was contracted by EG though(to my knowledge). So I don't see how this is pertinent. Lying to EG saying it wasn't him. Sorta dropped the ball on that one. Don't lie to your employer. HE DIDN'T! Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread. Edit: I wanted to add something to this post due to something many of the responses have been touching on. Many people think that the fact that I have used this awful word in the past means that the first screenshot submitted was in fact myself, and that I lied to the community. This is simply not true. The first screenshot submitted, that I claimed was not me, was in fact not me. My original story still stands, the difference is that as soon as that screenshot came out on reddit, everyone started scrubbing through replays against me and all of my vods, searching for something to prove I am in fact racist. Thus the screenshots from statements I made 1+ year ago surfaced on reddit. Notice as soon as the first of these screenshots was released, I immediately owned up and apologized (as seen here). All of the evidence of me using the N word (which again, was 100% wrong by me) was from old screenshots/vods way before I was even talking to the EG guys, let alone representing them. Sorry for the confusion, I hope this clears up the issue with my perceived "dishonesty." Note in Alex Garfield's statement the supposed "lying" wasn't even an issue, rather just my actions and poor judgement.
As for the lateness in my final apology here and the accusations that I am only doing it now that EG has fired me, I was actually told specifically by EG management not to make any statements (on twitter, teamliquid, or reddit) until they had decided what to do about it and made their own statement. Sorry for this causing any doubt for people as to whether or not my apology is sincere! Are you kidding? That edit is the most obvious cover up for a lie there's ever been. I'm so sure that orb went to sleep one night an a friend hopped on his account and used language exactly consistent with what he's proven to use in the past... Give me a break. I'm glad you actually play this game, and are aware that anyone can use the exact same name as you What? Of course I know that. I'm master as 2 diff races I'm pretty sure I play this game. And orb's story is that he went to sleep one night when he had friends over and they said that stuff on his account. Because it was proven to be his account. You don't even know the story.
It must be nice living in a world of ignorance where every little bit of information posted on reddit is accepted as fact.
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On March 10 2012 09:31 Okiesmokie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:30 Epoch wrote:On March 10 2012 09:25 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 09:22 Utinni wrote:On March 10 2012 09:20 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:19 Radin wrote:
Those of you claiming this isn't a big deal have obviously never been in a professional setting. It's not like Orb was making a drunken fool of himself at a bar (which would clearly be his personal life) - he was calling people niggers in Starcraft (the game he is contracted to cast).
The fact is, when you represent a professional organization you are held to a higher standard. No resepectable company would tolerate someone who represents them calling people niggers while attending (playing in this case) an event directly related to business. Not only is it immoral, it's horrible PR.
Orb chose this for himself. This was the correct move by EG. He did it long before he was contracted by EG though(to my knowledge). So I don't see how this is pertinent. Lying to EG saying it wasn't him. Sorta dropped the ball on that one. Don't lie to your employer. HE DIDN'T! Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread. Edit: I wanted to add something to this post due to something many of the responses have been touching on. Many people think that the fact that I have used this awful word in the past means that the first screenshot submitted was in fact myself, and that I lied to the community. This is simply not true. The first screenshot submitted, that I claimed was not me, was in fact not me. My original story still stands, the difference is that as soon as that screenshot came out on reddit, everyone started scrubbing through replays against me and all of my vods, searching for something to prove I am in fact racist. Thus the screenshots from statements I made 1+ year ago surfaced on reddit. Notice as soon as the first of these screenshots was released, I immediately owned up and apologized (as seen here). All of the evidence of me using the N word (which again, was 100% wrong by me) was from old screenshots/vods way before I was even talking to the EG guys, let alone representing them. Sorry for the confusion, I hope this clears up the issue with my perceived "dishonesty." Note in Alex Garfield's statement the supposed "lying" wasn't even an issue, rather just my actions and poor judgement.
As for the lateness in my final apology here and the accusations that I am only doing it now that EG has fired me, I was actually told specifically by EG management not to make any statements (on twitter, teamliquid, or reddit) until they had decided what to do about it and made their own statement. Sorry for this causing any doubt for people as to whether or not my apology is sincere! Are you kidding? That edit is the most obvious cover up for a lie there's ever been. I'm so sure that orb went to sleep one night an a friend hopped on his account and used language exactly consistent with what he's proven to use in the past... Give me a break. I'm glad you actually play this game, and are aware that anyone can use the exact same name as you
And the fact that people did a hotkey analysis and found the hotkeys and play to be exactly like orbs, and the fact that people saw orb watching that replay on his stream the next day? Yeah not orb man, his friend sent him the replay of him on his account playing like he does and raging like he does.
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what did orb do? sorry but i require a tl;dr
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On March 10 2012 09:37 Okiesmokie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:34 Epoch wrote:On March 10 2012 09:31 Okiesmokie wrote:On March 10 2012 09:30 Epoch wrote:On March 10 2012 09:25 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 09:22 Utinni wrote:On March 10 2012 09:20 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:19 Radin wrote:
Those of you claiming this isn't a big deal have obviously never been in a professional setting. It's not like Orb was making a drunken fool of himself at a bar (which would clearly be his personal life) - he was calling people niggers in Starcraft (the game he is contracted to cast).
The fact is, when you represent a professional organization you are held to a higher standard. No resepectable company would tolerate someone who represents them calling people niggers while attending (playing in this case) an event directly related to business. Not only is it immoral, it's horrible PR.
Orb chose this for himself. This was the correct move by EG. He did it long before he was contracted by EG though(to my knowledge). So I don't see how this is pertinent. Lying to EG saying it wasn't him. Sorta dropped the ball on that one. Don't lie to your employer. HE DIDN'T! Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread. Edit: I wanted to add something to this post due to something many of the responses have been touching on. Many people think that the fact that I have used this awful word in the past means that the first screenshot submitted was in fact myself, and that I lied to the community. This is simply not true. The first screenshot submitted, that I claimed was not me, was in fact not me. My original story still stands, the difference is that as soon as that screenshot came out on reddit, everyone started scrubbing through replays against me and all of my vods, searching for something to prove I am in fact racist. Thus the screenshots from statements I made 1+ year ago surfaced on reddit. Notice as soon as the first of these screenshots was released, I immediately owned up and apologized (as seen here). All of the evidence of me using the N word (which again, was 100% wrong by me) was from old screenshots/vods way before I was even talking to the EG guys, let alone representing them. Sorry for the confusion, I hope this clears up the issue with my perceived "dishonesty." Note in Alex Garfield's statement the supposed "lying" wasn't even an issue, rather just my actions and poor judgement.
As for the lateness in my final apology here and the accusations that I am only doing it now that EG has fired me, I was actually told specifically by EG management not to make any statements (on twitter, teamliquid, or reddit) until they had decided what to do about it and made their own statement. Sorry for this causing any doubt for people as to whether or not my apology is sincere! Are you kidding? That edit is the most obvious cover up for a lie there's ever been. I'm so sure that orb went to sleep one night an a friend hopped on his account and used language exactly consistent with what he's proven to use in the past... Give me a break. I'm glad you actually play this game, and are aware that anyone can use the exact same name as you What? Of course I know that. I'm master as 2 diff races I'm pretty sure I play this game. And orb's story is that he went to sleep one night when he had friends over and they said that stuff on his account. Because it was proven to be his account. You don't even know the story. It must be nice living in a world of ignorance where every little bit of information posted on reddit is accepted as fact.
Again, are you kidding? I'm going by orb's own personal explanation of the first image in question.. not anyone elses.
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On March 10 2012 09:37 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:31 Okiesmokie wrote:On March 10 2012 09:30 Epoch wrote:On March 10 2012 09:25 sereniity wrote:On March 10 2012 09:22 Utinni wrote:On March 10 2012 09:20 Megabuster123 wrote:On March 10 2012 09:19 Radin wrote:
Those of you claiming this isn't a big deal have obviously never been in a professional setting. It's not like Orb was making a drunken fool of himself at a bar (which would clearly be his personal life) - he was calling people niggers in Starcraft (the game he is contracted to cast).
The fact is, when you represent a professional organization you are held to a higher standard. No resepectable company would tolerate someone who represents them calling people niggers while attending (playing in this case) an event directly related to business. Not only is it immoral, it's horrible PR.
Orb chose this for himself. This was the correct move by EG. He did it long before he was contracted by EG though(to my knowledge). So I don't see how this is pertinent. Lying to EG saying it wasn't him. Sorta dropped the ball on that one. Don't lie to your employer. HE DIDN'T! Why can't people look at the other damn threads that have to do with this subject before throwing around bullshit... Here's a quote from Orbs apology thread. Edit: I wanted to add something to this post due to something many of the responses have been touching on. Many people think that the fact that I have used this awful word in the past means that the first screenshot submitted was in fact myself, and that I lied to the community. This is simply not true. The first screenshot submitted, that I claimed was not me, was in fact not me. My original story still stands, the difference is that as soon as that screenshot came out on reddit, everyone started scrubbing through replays against me and all of my vods, searching for something to prove I am in fact racist. Thus the screenshots from statements I made 1+ year ago surfaced on reddit. Notice as soon as the first of these screenshots was released, I immediately owned up and apologized (as seen here). All of the evidence of me using the N word (which again, was 100% wrong by me) was from old screenshots/vods way before I was even talking to the EG guys, let alone representing them. Sorry for the confusion, I hope this clears up the issue with my perceived "dishonesty." Note in Alex Garfield's statement the supposed "lying" wasn't even an issue, rather just my actions and poor judgement.
As for the lateness in my final apology here and the accusations that I am only doing it now that EG has fired me, I was actually told specifically by EG management not to make any statements (on twitter, teamliquid, or reddit) until they had decided what to do about it and made their own statement. Sorry for this causing any doubt for people as to whether or not my apology is sincere! Are you kidding? That edit is the most obvious cover up for a lie there's ever been. I'm so sure that orb went to sleep one night an a friend hopped on his account and used language exactly consistent with what he's proven to use in the past... Give me a break. I'm glad you actually play this game, and are aware that anyone can use the exact same name as you And the fact that people did a hotkey analysis and found the hotkeys and play to be exactly like orbs, and the fact that people saw orb watching that replay on his stream the next day? Yeah not orb man, his friend sent him the replay of him on his account playing like he does and raging like he does.
Please link to the hotkey analysis, where we can get replays, etc.
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