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No overlapping of orb drama. Keep the two topics separate. People bringing the orb discussion over to this thread will be warned/banned (starting on page 25*). |
On March 09 2012 01:19 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 01:06 Xalorian wrote:On March 09 2012 00:53 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 00:48 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:43 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 00:38 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:35 Ryukku wrote:On March 09 2012 00:31 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip..... That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up. Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there. My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from. How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous! But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"? So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part. By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz" *Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart* So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world? Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling? Thats what we've been saying this whole time though, the Koreans don't see the team as a "job", to them it's like a family. So if you want a better comparison, then it's more like your family has a business and you're there to help out, but then you say you're going to quit and go to school and not gona work again. Then you suddenly decided to work for another business cuz they pay you better. You are free to "change your mind" but if you look at it from Jessica's point of view, it's definitely a lie. edit* and my other comparison, while exaggerated, brings up a point: so when is it a "lie" instead of a "I changed my mind" ?
But... it's NOT a family, it's a business. It may be LIKE a family to most of koreans or for Jessica, but that is absolutly irrelevant... because it's NOT, in fact, a family. Yes, she is acting like that because she thinks that she is entitled to it... and that is exactly what we are discussing.
No matter how angry you are, how sad you are, what you think or anything... Dragon did NOTHING illegal, he changed is mind, therefore Jessica can't just go on twitter and bash and insult him just for the sake of it. It's just NOT ok. Sure, whatever, Koreans may feel like it's normal, but it is not for a lot of peoples around the world and SlayerS NEED the support of foreigns viewers and fans, so she can't just act like she is talking to a bunch of koreans... Twitter is open to any one to see.
It's not our job, foreigners, to understand the koreans cultural aspect, when she is talking to the world on twitter. She was even posting in english so this was obviously not aiming toward Koreans, anyway.
And, then, she start insulting peoples randomly, who have nothing to do about it. At this point, it's not a cultural thing anymore, she is just completly mad and she is tainting the SlayerS images, or at least her images, to the world, including koreans.
Finally, it's not a lie, no matter how you twist the fact. The only this could be a lie, is if he told Jessica that he would never join another team, ever. And there is no poof of that, she didn't told that herself either. He told her that he wanted to play SC2 has a hobby... and he can totaly do that in Millenium. Millenium is not asking their players to train 10 hours a day. Look at stephano, for example... he told the world many time that SC2 was still just an hobby.
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On March 09 2012 01:31 Xalorian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 01:19 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 01:06 Xalorian wrote:On March 09 2012 00:53 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 00:48 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:43 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 00:38 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:35 Ryukku wrote:On March 09 2012 00:31 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip..... That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up. Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there. My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from. How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous! But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"? So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part. By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz" *Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart* So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world? Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling? Thats what we've been saying this whole time though, the Koreans don't see the team as a "job", to them it's like a family. So if you want a better comparison, then it's more like your family has a business and you're there to help out, but then you say you're going to quit and go to school and not gona work again. Then you suddenly decided to work for another business cuz they pay you better. You are free to "change your mind" but if you look at it from Jessica's point of view, it's definitely a lie. edit* and my other comparison, while exaggerated, brings up a point: so when is it a "lie" instead of a "I changed my mind" ? But... it's NOT a family, it's a business. It may be LIKE a family to most of koreans or for Jessica, but that is absolutly irrelevant... because it's NOT, in fact, a family. Yes, she is acting like that because she thinks that she is entitled to it... and that is exactly what we are discussing. No matter how angry you are, how sad you are, what you think or anything... Dragon did NOTHING illegal, he changed is mind, therefore Jessica can't just go on twitter and bash and insult him just for the sake of it. It's just NOT ok. Sure, whatever, Koreans may feel like it's normal, but it is not for a lot of peoples around the world and SlayerS NEED the support of foreigns viewers and fans, so she can't just act like she is talking to a bunch of koreans... Twitter is open to any one to see. It's not our job, foreigners, to understand the koreans cultural aspect, when she is talking to the world on twitter. She was even posting in english so this was obviously not aiming toward Koreans, anyway. And, then, she start insulting peoples randomly, who have nothing to do about it. At this point, it's not a cultural thing anymore, she is just completly mad and she is tainting the SlayerS images, or at least her images, to the world, including koreans.
It isn't a business to them, the team is as important as a family for them, I mean they even live together 24/7 for godsake. You can be all technical all you want with terminology, but in reality, they treat their team and hold the importance just as much as a family. Yes it doesn't make sense to us, that's because we have different values.
And for saying Dragon did nothing illegal? lmao guess what, Jessica did nothing illegal as well, so i don't see your point, we're not arguing legality here. Hell, she isn't even "officially" announcing this even, it's her personal twitter, something that is meant for one to post w/e the hell is on their mind. If she wanted to make it official, she would of made some post on TL forums or PlayXP.
And lastly, she didnt "start insulting people randomly", scroll about 2-3 pages back, someone posted the context of that replay, some idiot was basically swearing and insulting her directly first.
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I find this quite silly to be honest, I think Jessica is being overdramatic and a passive aggressive.
If she has a problem with someone she can easily confront them personally. What's the point is plastering this all over the internet?
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Jessica obliviously has the right to be angry. But he shouldn't have posted in English because this seems something we as outsiders can't understand.
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On March 09 2012 01:39 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 01:31 Xalorian wrote:On March 09 2012 01:19 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 01:06 Xalorian wrote:On March 09 2012 00:53 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 00:48 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:43 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 00:38 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:35 Ryukku wrote:On March 09 2012 00:31 Qiox wrote:
[quote]
That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up. Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there. My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from. How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous! But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"? So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part. By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz" *Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart* So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world? Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling? Thats what we've been saying this whole time though, the Koreans don't see the team as a "job", to them it's like a family. So if you want a better comparison, then it's more like your family has a business and you're there to help out, but then you say you're going to quit and go to school and not gona work again. Then you suddenly decided to work for another business cuz they pay you better. You are free to "change your mind" but if you look at it from Jessica's point of view, it's definitely a lie. edit* and my other comparison, while exaggerated, brings up a point: so when is it a "lie" instead of a "I changed my mind" ? But... it's NOT a family, it's a business. It may be LIKE a family to most of koreans or for Jessica, but that is absolutly irrelevant... because it's NOT, in fact, a family. Yes, she is acting like that because she thinks that she is entitled to it... and that is exactly what we are discussing. No matter how angry you are, how sad you are, what you think or anything... Dragon did NOTHING illegal, he changed is mind, therefore Jessica can't just go on twitter and bash and insult him just for the sake of it. It's just NOT ok. Sure, whatever, Koreans may feel like it's normal, but it is not for a lot of peoples around the world and SlayerS NEED the support of foreigns viewers and fans, so she can't just act like she is talking to a bunch of koreans... Twitter is open to any one to see. It's not our job, foreigners, to understand the koreans cultural aspect, when she is talking to the world on twitter. She was even posting in english so this was obviously not aiming toward Koreans, anyway. And, then, she start insulting peoples randomly, who have nothing to do about it. At this point, it's not a cultural thing anymore, she is just completly mad and she is tainting the SlayerS images, or at least her images, to the world, including koreans. It isn't a business to them, the team is as important as a family for them, I mean they even live together 24/7 for godsake. You can be all technical all you want with terminology, but in reality, they treat their team and hold the importance just as much as a family. Yes it doesn't make sense to us, that's because we have different values. And for saying Dragon did nothing illegal? lmao guess what, Jessica did nothing illegal as well, so i don't see your point, we're not arguing legality here. Hell, she isn't even "officially" announcing this even, it's her personal twitter, something that is meant for one to post w/e the hell is on their mind. If she wanted to make it official, she would of made some post on TL forums or PlayXP. And lastly, she didnt "start insulting people randomly", scroll about 2-3 pages back, someone posted the context of that replay, some idiot was basically swearing and insulting her directly first.
Dragon lived there for only a short while and hadn't lived there for some time before he left.
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This whole ordeal seems blown way over proportion. Dragon made a decision, circumstances made him change his mind. These things happen, even though I completely understand where Jessica is coming from.
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On March 09 2012 02:04 EatsDirt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 01:39 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 01:31 Xalorian wrote:On March 09 2012 01:19 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 01:06 Xalorian wrote:On March 09 2012 00:53 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 00:48 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:43 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 00:38 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:35 Ryukku wrote:
[quote]
Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there.
My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from. How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous! But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"? So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part. By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz" *Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart* So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world? Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling? Thats what we've been saying this whole time though, the Koreans don't see the team as a "job", to them it's like a family. So if you want a better comparison, then it's more like your family has a business and you're there to help out, but then you say you're going to quit and go to school and not gona work again. Then you suddenly decided to work for another business cuz they pay you better. You are free to "change your mind" but if you look at it from Jessica's point of view, it's definitely a lie. edit* and my other comparison, while exaggerated, brings up a point: so when is it a "lie" instead of a "I changed my mind" ? But... it's NOT a family, it's a business. It may be LIKE a family to most of koreans or for Jessica, but that is absolutly irrelevant... because it's NOT, in fact, a family. Yes, she is acting like that because she thinks that she is entitled to it... and that is exactly what we are discussing. No matter how angry you are, how sad you are, what you think or anything... Dragon did NOTHING illegal, he changed is mind, therefore Jessica can't just go on twitter and bash and insult him just for the sake of it. It's just NOT ok. Sure, whatever, Koreans may feel like it's normal, but it is not for a lot of peoples around the world and SlayerS NEED the support of foreigns viewers and fans, so she can't just act like she is talking to a bunch of koreans... Twitter is open to any one to see. It's not our job, foreigners, to understand the koreans cultural aspect, when she is talking to the world on twitter. She was even posting in english so this was obviously not aiming toward Koreans, anyway. And, then, she start insulting peoples randomly, who have nothing to do about it. At this point, it's not a cultural thing anymore, she is just completly mad and she is tainting the SlayerS images, or at least her images, to the world, including koreans. It isn't a business to them, the team is as important as a family for them, I mean they even live together 24/7 for godsake. You can be all technical all you want with terminology, but in reality, they treat their team and hold the importance just as much as a family. Yes it doesn't make sense to us, that's because we have different values. And for saying Dragon did nothing illegal? lmao guess what, Jessica did nothing illegal as well, so i don't see your point, we're not arguing legality here. Hell, she isn't even "officially" announcing this even, it's her personal twitter, something that is meant for one to post w/e the hell is on their mind. If she wanted to make it official, she would of made some post on TL forums or PlayXP. And lastly, she didnt "start insulting people randomly", scroll about 2-3 pages back, someone posted the context of that replay, some idiot was basically swearing and insulting her directly first. Dragon lived there for only a short while and hadn't lived there for some time before he left.
Was just refering to Korean team's in general.
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On March 09 2012 01:31 Xalorian wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 01:19 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 01:06 Xalorian wrote:On March 09 2012 00:53 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 00:48 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:43 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 00:38 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:35 Ryukku wrote:On March 09 2012 00:31 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:24 Ryukku wrote:...... snip.....
Lying and abandoning your family for money and self profit is a bad thing and would therefore explain why jessica is all angry and flared up about it.
.... snip..... That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up. Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there. My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from. How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous! But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"? So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part. By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz" *Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart* So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world? Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling? Thats what we've been saying this whole time though, the Koreans don't see the team as a "job", to them it's like a family. So if you want a better comparison, then it's more like your family has a business and you're there to help out, but then you say you're going to quit and go to school and not gona work again. Then you suddenly decided to work for another business cuz they pay you better. You are free to "change your mind" but if you look at it from Jessica's point of view, it's definitely a lie. edit* and my other comparison, while exaggerated, brings up a point: so when is it a "lie" instead of a "I changed my mind" ? But... it's NOT a family, it's a business. It may be LIKE a family to most of koreans or for Jessica, but that is absolutly irrelevant... because it's NOT, in fact, a family. Yes, she is acting like that because she thinks that she is entitled to it... and that is exactly what we are discussing. No matter how angry you are, how sad you are, what you think or anything... Dragon did NOTHING illegal, he changed is mind, therefore Jessica can't just go on twitter and bash and insult him just for the sake of it. It's just NOT ok. Sure, whatever, Koreans may feel like it's normal, but it is not for a lot of peoples around the world and SlayerS NEED the support of foreigns viewers and fans, so she can't just act like she is talking to a bunch of koreans... Twitter is open to any one to see. It's not our job, foreigners, to understand the koreans cultural aspect, when she is talking to the world on twitter. She was even posting in english so this was obviously not aiming toward Koreans, anyway. And, then, she start insulting peoples randomly, who have nothing to do about it. At this point, it's not a cultural thing anymore, she is just completly mad and she is tainting the SlayerS images, or at least her images, to the world, including koreans. Finally, it's not a lie, no matter how you twist the fact. The only this could be a lie, is if he told Jessica that he would never join another team, ever. And there is no poof of that, she didn't told that herself either. He told her that he wanted to play SC2 has a hobby... and he can totaly do that in Millenium. Millenium is not asking their players to train 10 hours a day. Look at stephano, for example... he told the world many time that SC2 was still just an hobby.
All the posts previously containing strong emotion were all in Korean and was fan translated on TL.
The post in English has no real emotional rage on it. It just summed up on how she is disappointed at Dragon not telling her the true reason why he left the team.
Even though you think this is a business/corporation and Dragon just changed his mind blah blah blah.
It is still a formality and custom to inform your ex-boss what you are up to even in the business world.
It is like when you were working for some big company in a certain industry, and you told your manager that you would like to quit the job and have a change in career. When you changed your mind and decided to go back to the same industry in a different company, you will still contact your ex-boss for MANY reasons.
1. You keep in touch and stay in good term. It is just a nice thing to do, you never know if you will require help from them in your future.
2. Most likely when you apply for another position in another company, they will reference check you. It is nice to inform them first and make sure they won't screw you over when they reference you.
3. Even if referencing was not required. This help prevent awkwardness in future potential interactions with your old company/manager/boss. This is specially important in industry that is small in size and population. SCII is one very good example.
In general, this is a nice thing to practice and it only does good to your own career development and shows maturity in a person.
If Jessica was unaware of Dragon's recruitment from Millenium until Millenium's official announcement, of course she will feel like getting slapped in the face. Professionalism is a mutual thing. When Dragon decided to deal with the matter unprofessionally and slap his ex-boss in the face, it is really not surprising for him to get a his own face slapped as well.
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Why is this being painted in culture so deeply. There are player shuffles inside and outside Korea all the fucking time, it's only a big deal because Jessica makes it a big deal.
Not many other coach/manager/team has this much drama surrounding them on a regular basis. The only other one that comes close is probably the coach of TSL. This isn't a universally Korean thing otherwise there would be cries and shit-storms any time a player joined a foreign team or left their current team.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Dragon lied, but Jessica seems like such a difficult and overbearing person to talk to that I'm sure he'd have his reasons to avoid a massive guilt trip from her.
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On March 07 2012 20:49 -orb- wrote:
Jessica should take some courses on PR
Her business sense is amazing but holy shit does she handle these situations poorly
Are you seriously criticizing someone's public relations skills?
It makes me sad to see this kind of negativity in our community. 
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On March 09 2012 03:05 Razgreez wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 20:49 -orb- wrote:
Jessica should take some courses on PR
Her business sense is amazing but holy shit does she handle these situations poorly Are you seriously criticizing someone's public relations skills? It makes me sad to see this kind of negativity in our community.
well does she seem clever calling out players and bashing them on Twitter then?
None wins on that.
1. She is by doing this giving Slayers team a bad reputation
2. and she is trying to rip a hole in Dragon to make him look untrustworthy which could damage his career.
None wins by her actions. It's stupid. This is a small thing she should take with him privately. Even tough I dont see how this is a lie or betrayal. Dragon was never going to play for Slayers, he left, he said that he would play Sc2 as a hobby, he got a new oppertunity (a fluke) and he ended up taking it. Jessica is very naive and ignorant. You dont turn down a good oppertunity.
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On March 09 2012 02:19 KaienFEMC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 01:31 Xalorian wrote:On March 09 2012 01:19 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 01:06 Xalorian wrote:On March 09 2012 00:53 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 00:48 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:43 Fubi wrote:On March 09 2012 00:38 Qiox wrote:On March 09 2012 00:35 Ryukku wrote:On March 09 2012 00:31 Qiox wrote:
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That could make sense if the part about lying were known to be true. But it's not. It's just made up bullshit that Jessica has deciding to believe and use as a basis for throwing insults. She is acting like a child who does not understand or care about the difference between knowing the truth and just making shit up. Haha that one is beyond any of us to comment. We never knew what actually was said. Its dragon's word against jessica's. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there. My personal opinion is that private affairs should be kept private instead of airing it on twitter, but i can see where jessica is coming from. How can you possibly said it's between dragon's word and jessica's word? Jessica can't possibly know which version is true. Who cares what she has to say. The only person who knows what is true is dragon. To give any thought to what she has to say is ridiculous! But you DON"T know what Dragon said to Jessica or what went on between them. What if Dragon went up to Jessica and said "Hey i'm NEVER going to be a pro gamer again"? So what? Since when is a persons plans today something that cannot ever change? How can you possibly ask that as if it were a meaningful question? Having his plans change does not make him a liar. It makes him someone who changed his plans. When he said it he meant it. When he changed his mind, he is again doing what he means to do. To try and twist this into an issue of dishonesty on his part is both dishonest and childishly stupid on her part. By your arguments, no one can ever be a liar then? "Hey hunnie, I promised I'll never cheat on you" *cheats* "I didn't lie, i just changed my mind lolz" *Make a retarded comparison that makes ABSOLUTLY no senses, and think that he is actually smart* So, basically, If I leave my job, telling my boss that I'm going back to school... but, while going back to school, someone offer me a better job than what I had before, so I accept it... that makes me a fucking liar and my old boss should talk shit publicly about me on twitter to the world? Because THAT is a comparison that makes senses. Your cheating bullshit is not. While he had the choice between Slayers and Working, since he was not even in the team house and was having ZERO salary, he decided to leave the scene. Then, he got an offer from a foreign team, an actual salary... And he can't change is mind because else, he is a fucking liar? That's what you are telling? Thats what we've been saying this whole time though, the Koreans don't see the team as a "job", to them it's like a family. So if you want a better comparison, then it's more like your family has a business and you're there to help out, but then you say you're going to quit and go to school and not gona work again. Then you suddenly decided to work for another business cuz they pay you better. You are free to "change your mind" but if you look at it from Jessica's point of view, it's definitely a lie. edit* and my other comparison, while exaggerated, brings up a point: so when is it a "lie" instead of a "I changed my mind" ? But... it's NOT a family, it's a business. It may be LIKE a family to most of koreans or for Jessica, but that is absolutly irrelevant... because it's NOT, in fact, a family. Yes, she is acting like that because she thinks that she is entitled to it... and that is exactly what we are discussing. No matter how angry you are, how sad you are, what you think or anything... Dragon did NOTHING illegal, he changed is mind, therefore Jessica can't just go on twitter and bash and insult him just for the sake of it. It's just NOT ok. Sure, whatever, Koreans may feel like it's normal, but it is not for a lot of peoples around the world and SlayerS NEED the support of foreigns viewers and fans, so she can't just act like she is talking to a bunch of koreans... Twitter is open to any one to see. It's not our job, foreigners, to understand the koreans cultural aspect, when she is talking to the world on twitter. She was even posting in english so this was obviously not aiming toward Koreans, anyway. And, then, she start insulting peoples randomly, who have nothing to do about it. At this point, it's not a cultural thing anymore, she is just completly mad and she is tainting the SlayerS images, or at least her images, to the world, including koreans. Finally, it's not a lie, no matter how you twist the fact. The only this could be a lie, is if he told Jessica that he would never join another team, ever. And there is no poof of that, she didn't told that herself either. He told her that he wanted to play SC2 has a hobby... and he can totaly do that in Millenium. Millenium is not asking their players to train 10 hours a day. Look at stephano, for example... he told the world many time that SC2 was still just an hobby. All the posts previously containing strong emotion were all in Korean and was fan translated on TL. The post in English has no real emotional rage on it. It just summed up on how she is disappointed at Dragon not telling her the true reason why he left the team. Even though you think this is a business/corporation and Dragon just changed his mind blah blah blah. It is still a formality and custom to inform your ex-boss what you are up to even in the business world. It is like when you were working for some big company in a certain industry, and you told your manager that you would like to quit the job and have a change in career. When you changed your mind and decided to go back to the same industry in a different company, you will still contact your ex-boss for MANY reasons. 1. You keep in touch and stay in good term. It is just a nice thing to do, you never know if you will require help from them in your future. 2. Most likely when you apply for another position in another company, they will reference check you. It is nice to inform them first and make sure they won't screw you over when they reference you. 3. Even if referencing was not required. This help prevent awkwardness in future potential interactions with your old company/manager/boss. This is specially important in industry that is small in size and population. SCII is one very good example. In general, this is a nice thing to practice and it only does good to your own career development and shows maturity in a person. If Jessica was unaware of Dragon's recruitment from Millenium until Millenium's official announcement, of course she will feel like getting slapped in the face. Professionalism is a mutual thing. When Dragon decided to deal with the matter unprofessionally and slap his ex-boss in the face, it is really not surprising for him to get a his own face slapped as well.
Again, feeling angry about it is normal, like I said many time...
The problem is not there. It is all about going on twitter. EVEN in your example... sure, getting in touch with your old boss would be fine... but even if you wouldn't, it doesn't give him the right to go on twitter and create drama and an uproar about it. Actually, i'm pretty sure that if he would do that, it would just be pretty bad PR for him, not for the employe.
And, again, no one, not even her, know the context of him, joining Millenium. We all know that Stephano play SC2 has an hobby and that he is not training 10 hours a day in a team house, but he is really good. If he is treated the same way by Millenium, then it would not be a lie in the first place, at all. This is exactly why Jessica can't just go on twitter and create drama each time something that she don't like happen... because if she is wrong or is shitting on a player, then it makes SlayerS in a whole look bad. She is NOT professional at all, about those issues.
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If he left SlayerS with no knowledge or intent to join Millenium, or any other team, and wanted to start working again. Then Jessica is just taking this the wrong way.
If not, I can see why she is angry, most employers are sad/angry when employees leave for another company that's in the same line of work. It makes them think that all the work I put into this guy is now lost, and someone else is getting the benefits.
But I personally think Dragon should have told her that e wanted to join Mill if he knew at the time.. If he didnt know, then it's not a big deal at all.
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On March 08 2012 23:49 Qiox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 21:24 Vista wrote:It honestly upsets me a bit that people think that Jessica's reaction is unreasonable. Maybe it really is a cultural thing as mentioned earlier, as I am Korean  Consider these two possibilities: 1) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers for another team. He decides to lie about why, and tells them he is leaving to focus on work. A few months later, dragon joins another team. 2) Dragon decides he wants to leave Slayers to focus on work. He tells them this is why is leaving. A few months later, he decides that he misses being on a team and gives himself a month to find a new one, otherwise he sticks with focusing on work. He gets an offer, and joins a new team. To anyone other than dragon, these two scenarios will look exactly the same. There is no possible way to know which one is true. The only person who knows which is true is dragon. Now you want to claim cultural difference? Here's the difference as I see it. 1) You don't care about understanding the difference between when you know something, and when you are just deciding to believe something. You then use your imagined belief, which happens to be the most insulting option, and begin insulting someone based on your chosen belief. 2) You understand and value the difference between when you know something and when you don't. So when you don't, you keep your mouth shut and don't insult people based on your imagination about what is and is not the truth. Is that the cultural difference of which you speak? Because in my opinion, option 1) above demonstrates a childish, ignorant, insulting culture that I could never have any respect for. Option 2) above is how normal, intelligent, rational people behave, and demonstrates a culture that has value.
If you read the entire thread, you'll see that Dragon started looking for a team almost immediately after he made that announcement of leaving SlayerS. That is not "A few months later, he decides that he misses being on a team and gives himself a month to find a new one".
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On March 09 2012 03:20 KenZo- wrote:
If he left SlayerS with no knowledge or intent to join Millenium, or any other team, and wanted to start working again. Then Jessica is just taking this the wrong way.
If not, I can see why she is angry, most employers are sad/angry when employees leave for another company that's in the same line of work. It makes them think that all the work I put into this guy is now lost, and someone else is getting the benefits.
But I personally think Dragon should have told her that e wanted to join Mill if he knew at the time.. If he didnt know, then it's not a big deal at all.
Apparently, the neutral standpoint is this. Dragon left SlayerS because he didn't really feel like his involvement in the team was going anywhere and he wanted to return to work, very shortly after he changes his mind(or he lied) and starts looking for a foreign team. Millenium is interested and picks him up. Jessica throws a fit about betrayal shortly after.
I don't see how your reason for, "I can see why she is angry" is because most employers get upset when an employee from one company goes to another company in the same line of work, this is eSports, this is the norm. Every 6 months to a year you are likely to see a fair few players switch teams. This isn't restricted to the foreign scene either. Even if considering this, you think a manager to should be upset at player switches I don't see how you could possibly justify Jessica's response. If that were acceptable, we'd be in the midst of a constant shit-storm between managers, coaches and teams.
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Mordiford, can you see why Jessica would be upset if Dragon lied about retiring (again) in order to leave the team? There must be something going on there; Golden left at the same time specifically to look for a foreign team, and she's had nothing but good things to say about him, and about Sleep, who also left and joined x6. So if Dragon had left citing a new opportunity, I doubt there would have been problems. It's the deception that's got her (understandably) pissed off.
Edit: I implore everyone, before you start making judgements about what happened, look at the chronology. Most of the theories here don't make any sense if you just look at the dates of the various statements.
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Until Boxer starts doing these dumb Twitter assaults, SlayerS is ok, or at least inside the SC2 community. Its built much more around his reputation than anyone else's.
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On March 09 2012 04:41 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Mordiford, can you see why Jessica would be upset if Dragon lied about retiring (again) in order to leave the team? There must be something going on there; Golden left at the same time specifically to look for a foreign team, and she's had nothing but good things to say about him, and about Sleep, who also left and joined x6. So if Dragon had left citing a new opportunity, I doubt there would have been problems. It's the deception that's got her (understandably) pissed off.
Ya, I don't think people get that. They just see a girl whining.
Slayers is a solid team for a reason.
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I'll be writing a letter to slayers explaining the western view on the situation, and how we think it should be handled. Hopefully if enough people re-send it, then some action will be taken. Her actions are hurting e-sports, not helping them.
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On March 09 2012 02:22 Mordiford wrote:
Why is this being painted in culture so deeply. There are player shuffles inside and outside Korea all the fucking time, it's only a big deal because Jessica makes it a big deal.
Not many other coach/manager/team has this much drama surrounding them on a regular basis. The only other one that comes close is probably the coach of TSL. This isn't a universally Korean thing otherwise there would be cries and shit-storms any time a player joined a foreign team or left their current team.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Dragon lied, but Jessica seems like such a difficult and overbearing person to talk to that I'm sure he'd have his reasons to avoid a massive guilt trip from her.
What other dramas did Jessica create in which you felt she overreacted?
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