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No overlapping of orb drama. Keep the two topics separate. People bringing the orb discussion over to this thread will be warned/banned (starting on page 25*). |
On March 09 2012 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
I'll be writing a letter to slayers explaining the western view on the situation, and how we think it should be handled. Hopefully if enough people re-send it, then some action will be taken. Her actions are hurting e-sports, not helping them.
are you serious ? hurting e-sports and all ?
Internet makes everyone so angry , people don´t know how to relax these days..
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On March 09 2012 04:41 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Mordiford, can you see why Jessica would be upset if Dragon lied about retiring (again) in order to leave the team? There must be something going on there; Golden left at the same time specifically to look for a foreign team, and she's had nothing but good things to say about him, and about Sleep, who also left and joined x6. So if Dragon had left citing a new opportunity, I doubt there would have been problems. It's the deception that's got her (understandably) pissed off.
Edit: I implore everyone, before you start making judgements about what happened, look at the chronology. Most of the theories here don't make any sense if you just look at the dates of the various statements.
I already touched on that in an earlier post. Quite simply, I could understand if Dragon left to return to work, and then changed his mind very shortly afterwards. Also, I could understand why he would lie based on what I've seen of Jessica's behavior in the past, she's been involved in her fair share of drama and always comes off in the same overbearing and aggressive manner. If he wanted to leave SlayerS(a team he was getting little to nothing from aside from the name) and didn't want to have to go through Jessica(who honestly seems to be sort of a nightmare to me), I can understand why he would lie. I'm not saying it's right, but it's understandable.
It's also important to note that Golden(I'm not sure about Sleep) was living in the SlayerS house for extended periods of time while Dragon was not. He seemed to be getting very little from SlayerS and they displayed no intention of investing more than they had in him. I don't see why Jessica is throwing such a colossal fit over a player that the team clearly never really considered an asset in the first place, even if he did lie.
Dragon would also have to be a moron to think that leaving the team, returning to work and then a week later returning to looking for a team would not be conspicuous. It is quite possible that in this time frame he realized that he could possibly get from a foreign team, all that he was not getting from SlayerS.
No matter how it goes though, this isn't the first time Jessica is at the center of a boat load of drama and I doubt it will be the last. She seems to have a penchant for histrionics and it does nothing but put me off her team.
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On March 07 2012 20:49 -orb- wrote:
Jessica should take some courses on PR
Her business sense is amazing but holy shit does she handle these situations poorly
Pretty funny how you should comment on handling things poorly seeing you handled the criticism after being outed by the community on giving racial slurs on ladder "poorly"
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Violet gave her the best advice over Twitter and Jessica should have listened to it. Violet told her that she was right to feel hurt but that she should let go of her anger. Obviously Dragon is in the wrong for lying, but Jessica ignored Violet's advice and said 'the people supporting Dragon look even more ridiculous'
Maybe they do, the problem is that Jessica also looks ridiculous for airing all this shit out over Twitter. In sports, there's this saying that certain things should be "kept in the locker room." Jessica needs to understand that it's usually best NOT TO GO PUBLIC AT ALL with the drama that affects your team. It makes the team look bad more than any individual player, because this kind of conflict should never reach the public eye. If the team were managed better, we would not have heard that there was ever a problem with Dragon leaving the team.
And by the way, it's not like this is MMA leaving. They have better Zergs on the team (CoCa, at least), and they need to recruit more anyway. In no way is losing Dragon worse than causing a public shit storm related directly to Team Slayers.
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On March 09 2012 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
I'll be writing a letter to slayers explaining the western view on the situation, and how we think it should be handled. Hopefully if enough people re-send it, then some action will be taken. Her actions are hurting e-sports, not helping them.
No. You are assuming that the Western view is the way to go, which begins to draw parallels with cultural imperialism. It's best just to ignore all this drama. Secondly, many people probably will not want to spam Slayers Boxer, nor should they.
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i have to state that im a slayers fan and i never like dragon even when he was on slayers
i dont know how it is in korea but in north america we like to keep business and personal stuff separate. dragon was very unprofessional and deceitful if he just left without saying anything/lied about it afterwards. but as a team manager, jessica shouldnt have vented her anger on twitter. i can see where shes coming from because if i was running a team and somebody just ditched and lied about the reason id be pissed, but you have to understand alot of these kids are immature and only looking to get more cash and dont really think about the consequences of their actions (theres many examples of this in the past). jessica needs to just relax and realize running a business is not going to be smooth sailing 24/7, plus why make a big fuss about a player who hasnt even achieved much in his gaming career.
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On March 09 2012 05:25 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
I'll be writing a letter to slayers explaining the western view on the situation, and how we think it should be handled. Hopefully if enough people re-send it, then some action will be taken. Her actions are hurting e-sports, not helping them. No. You are assuming that the Western view is the way to go, which begins to draw parallels with cultural imperialism. It's best just to ignore all this drama. Secondly, many people probably will not want to spam Slayers Boxer, nor should they.
It's wrong what she is doing. It's not a cultural thing, it's a childish thing. It is immaturity at its best.
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On March 09 2012 05:50 Inori wrote:
I'm a fan of Slayers and Boxer specifically, but oh man is jessica a drama queen. It's not just this incident, it's every incident she decides to "handle".
Talking about rising as her own, betrayal, not being able to trust people anymore, she sounds like something actually serious happened instead of just another random teen doing what teens do (being inconsistent).
After trying to remember as many as I can, I could come up with 4 "dramas"off the top of my head. Eve incident, Coca transfer incident, and more recently her tweet about the SlayerS twitter/FB pages no longer being official, and of course the one we're discussing right here.
I would agree that she could have handled the Eve incident a little better, but I can also see where she was coming from as she was trying to protect Eve. Eve was getting bashed pretty hard on the forums, and there were even images of her photoshopped onto pornographic pictures with silly insults written under. I think ideally, what she should have done is announcing on her twitter "Please stop all this nonsense about Eve, and if you go too far like some of you seem to be doing, I'll have to bring in a lawsuit into this", and not respond to any obvious trolls trying to stir things up.
The Coca thing was started by the Zenex manager and later found out to have originated from miscommunications within the Zenex management from what I remember.
Twitter/FB - Most people don't know what actually happened to trigger this and are assuming that she is overreacting over nothing. She has her reasons on why she can't reveal everything here and I hope people can understand that.
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On March 09 2012 05:48 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 05:25 Bagration wrote:On March 09 2012 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
I'll be writing a letter to slayers explaining the western view on the situation, and how we think it should be handled. Hopefully if enough people re-send it, then some action will be taken. Her actions are hurting e-sports, not helping them. No. You are assuming that the Western view is the way to go, which begins to draw parallels with cultural imperialism. It's best just to ignore all this drama. Secondly, many people probably will not want to spam Slayers Boxer, nor should they. It's wrong what she is doing. It's not a cultural thing, it's a childish thing. It is immaturity at its best.
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't tweet like Jessica. But I wouldn't get worked up about someone tweeting like that unless they were calling me or someone close to me out. I'm just saying that it is best to ignore all of this. Often times it is just not worth it.
Besides, these types of stories can change rapidly. Remember TSL-Fnatic? Everyone was saying how Fnatic was just another no-good player-stealing team, then rekrul makes that post, and suddenly people are calling for Coach Lee's head? I admit that it was interesting for me to watch the story develop, but it is best to not get invested into this type of stuff. Don't spam Boxer to complain about his girlfriend.
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On March 08 2012 23:16 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 18:03 yoojaein0131 wrote:On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote:Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got:
What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure. ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too." wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;; Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later.
No one's gonna give a fuck about what jessica is doing a couple weeks later or what she continues to do. It's not going to taint SlayerS image at all. As long as SlayerS keeps winning tournaments, matches, bring AMAZING games (MMA vs DRG GSL finals) then people are going to keep loving SlayerS no matter what.
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such drama because he said he left to play as a hobby instead?
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Can we let this thread die please? Jessica got overly emotional on her personal twitter, its not the end of the world. She has legitimate beef with Dragon and the way she expressed herself hurt some peoples feelings. I never really noticed all the drama threads before but there have been so many in the last week its a joke.
Anyone who stops being a fan of slayers because of a couple of tweets that are honestly not even that offensive is retarded, or is a fan of slayers for the wrong reason. BOXER MMA COCA TAEJA RYUNG GANZI BROWN PUZZLE need I go on?
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On March 09 2012 06:18 Avril_Lavigne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 23:16 Acritter wrote:On March 08 2012 18:03 yoojaein0131 wrote:On March 08 2012 17:36 ranshaked wrote:Can someone translate this? + Show Spoiler +뭐? 우린 돈 안주고 거긴 돈 줘서 간거라고? 너 글 내가 삭제해서 다들 오해할까봐 내가 친절하게 써주마. 얘야. 자고로 능력치에 맞게 해줘야지? 안그래? 돈만주면 양심도 팔고 친구도 배신할 기세네.. 팬이라면서 너스스로 그 선수를 까고 있다고는 생각안하니? 궁금하면 한국어 공부해. 너에겐 영어로 대답하는것도 아깝다. 어디서 외국인이라고 맘놓고 욕질이냐? 나도 욕 잘하거덩?
In google translate I got:
What? Glad we went there was money there anjugo money? Posts I'm afraid you misunderstood me kindly by deleting sseojuma everyone. Honey. What would you do to meet benevolence stats? Is not it? I just want my money selling conscience betray friends gisene. Mariners fans are off, saying that as a player do not you think that I give a fuck? If you're curious, studying Korean. A waste of a reply out for you in English. Where yokjilyinya mamnotgo Foreigners? I jalhageodeong bath?
Basically, it sounds like she is telling foreigners to fuck off? I'm not sure. ranshaked i'll give you the most accurate korean-to-english translation of this : "What? so he left because they're going to pay him and we didn't? Since people might misunderstand from me deleting your post, i'll kindly reply. Kid, if you want to be paid, you need to have the skills, no? Looks like you're ready to sell off your own friends and morals if someone pays you.. You say you're a fan yet don't you think you're actually making him look bad? if you don't understand what I'm saying, go study korean. I can't be bothered to reply in english to the likes of you. How dare you spout your profanity at me like it's nothing just because you're a foreigner? I can get on that level too." wow this woman is MAD :/ i wrote this as nicely as possible but holy crap I'm a Korean and I think she's going overboard w/ this;;; Okay. If Boxer allows her to keep painting the team in this bad a light, then I don't think SlayerS is going to last much longer. At the very least, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for the man, letting his passions harm each other like this. Jessica being involved with the team isn't good for Jessica OR the team. She needs to be removed, sooner rather than later. No one's gonna give a fuck about what jessica is doing a couple weeks later or what she continues to do. It's not going to taint SlayerS image at all. As long as SlayerS keeps winning tournaments, matches, bring AMAZING games (MMA vs DRG GSL finals) then people are going to keep loving SlayerS no matter what.
Avril Lavigne is right. No point in trying to raise pitchforks at Jessica, and especially not at Boxer or the rest of Slayers. If you don't like it, just ignore it. They are just tweets for crying out loud!
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On March 09 2012 05:06 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 04:41 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Mordiford, can you see why Jessica would be upset if Dragon lied about retiring (again) in order to leave the team? There must be something going on there; Golden left at the same time specifically to look for a foreign team, and she's had nothing but good things to say about him, and about Sleep, who also left and joined x6. So if Dragon had left citing a new opportunity, I doubt there would have been problems. It's the deception that's got her (understandably) pissed off.
Edit: I implore everyone, before you start making judgements about what happened, look at the chronology. Most of the theories here don't make any sense if you just look at the dates of the various statements. I already touched on that in an earlier post. Quite simply, I could understand if Dragon left to return to work, and then changed his mind very shortly afterwards. Also, I could understand why he would lie based on what I've seen of Jessica's behavior in the past, she's been involved in her fair share of drama and always comes off in the same overbearing and aggressive manner. If he wanted to leave SlayerS(a team he was getting little to nothing from aside from the name) and didn't want to have to go through Jessica(who honestly seems to be sort of a nightmare to me), I can understand why he would lie. I'm not saying it's right, but it's understandable. It's also important to note that Golden(I'm not sure about Sleep) was living in the SlayerS house for extended periods of time while Dragon was not. He seemed to be getting very little from SlayerS and they displayed no intention of investing more than they had in him. I don't see why Jessica is throwing such a colossal fit over a player that the team clearly never really considered an asset in the first place, even if he did lie. Dragon would also have to be a moron to think that leaving the team, returning to work and then a week later returning to looking for a team would not be conspicuous. It is quite possible that in this time frame he realized that he could possibly get from a foreign team, all that he was not getting from SlayerS. No matter how it goes though, this isn't the first time Jessica is at the center of a boat load of drama and I doubt it will be the last. She seems to have a penchant for histrionics and it does nothing but put me off her team.
So you're saying that Dragon was justifid in lying to the management of his team because he didn't get to live in the house? We have absolutely no idea what his contract status was, how much if anything he was paid, how he interacted with people behind the scenes... Literally all we know about the guy is that he's a popular-ish streamer with a shady past.
If Slayers didn't value him, then you have to think they wouldn't oppose him moving somewhere else. The team had much more invested in Sleep and Golden, and yet both players openly moved to other teams. Jessica's position has always been extremely positive about those moves. So if Dragon just wanted to leave, then he has no reason to lie. The only way that action makes sense is if he was under contract, quote-unquote retired to get out of that contract, and then was able to sign with a new team. That's entirely consistent with his behavior after his maphacking/stream cheating scandal; he publically apologized and promised to retire from pro gaming forever, only to break that promise little more than a month later. This is a tool he's used before.
I mean, the most charitable interpretation you've offered is that Dragon was too cowardly to tell his management that he was leaving, despite other teammates moving along with nothing but well wishes from Jessica. That seems flimsy to me.
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On March 07 2012 19:05 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 19:02 plogamer wrote:On March 07 2012 18:58 Torte de Lini wrote:
Y'know the issue with Jessica's laments is that it now actually creates a public problem. What is the public going to do about knowing how you feel about Dragon? Didn't anyone interpret Dragon's move as a backstab to SlayerS and if so, did you assume it was a valid theory or idea? Well Jessica has now just validated it and on top of that, SlayerS name gets tarnished because people will now associate this whole issue with Slayers in the back of their mind.
Before, it was all about Dragon going to Millenium after being teamless and reconsider going back to professional player rather than just an entertainer due to his past [and who knows if SlayerS would have put him back on the roster, especially with CoCa just returning). No one thought of it as a cowardly-way to get away from SlayerS, even if it was, it's not that huge of an issue for the public. Just the team and that team should complain purely amongst friends and themselves, the public won't side with you and even if they do, he's not going back SlayerS and you're certainly not taking him back.
So who wins here? You make an issue, you furthered it with outrageous potential claims and now you just tarnished your team's name. That's three strikes you're out. What. SlayerS name didn't get tarnished in my eyes. How does people associating the issue with SlayerS in the back of their mind tarnish anything? There's some misunderstanding, perhaps. But nothing is more dramatic than 'That's three strikes you're out'. What? When I think of SlayerS now, I will think of this and all the other issues with them such as the CoCa issue. Jessica and SlayerS Eve, how she is going to sue people for bad-mouthing SlayerS, etc. It stacks, if she didn't want people to think badly of SlayerS based on Dragon's actions, why raise the issue up at all. If Dragon leaves Millenium now or "lies/deceives" them for another team, it would be on him and the association would be purely on him. Now it's about Dragon and SlayerS and just puts him in the dirt in addition to giving SlayerS a pointless victim role if anything or an organization with a tempered manager. The three strikes thing was me trying to be the writer. As you can tell, I'm not Fitzgerald.
Ya, I find myself agreeing with your sentiments. I don't want to say Jessica is bad for slayers, because she definitely has a passion for her team and its members. But there always seems to be some lame drama surrounding her and slayers, and over time it has tarnished their image in my mind. On one hand I think of slayers and I think of the great players like boxer and mma, but at the same time all the Jessica incidents come to mind and they make me cringe. She feels kind of like a drama-queen, and though she does have the right to be angry and indignant in these cases, I don't feel like it should always be as public and sensationalized as it is. But I guess thats the purpose twitter serves...
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On March 09 2012 06:34 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 05:06 Mordiford wrote:On March 09 2012 04:41 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
Mordiford, can you see why Jessica would be upset if Dragon lied about retiring (again) in order to leave the team? There must be something going on there; Golden left at the same time specifically to look for a foreign team, and she's had nothing but good things to say about him, and about Sleep, who also left and joined x6. So if Dragon had left citing a new opportunity, I doubt there would have been problems. It's the deception that's got her (understandably) pissed off.
Edit: I implore everyone, before you start making judgements about what happened, look at the chronology. Most of the theories here don't make any sense if you just look at the dates of the various statements. I already touched on that in an earlier post. Quite simply, I could understand if Dragon left to return to work, and then changed his mind very shortly afterwards. Also, I could understand why he would lie based on what I've seen of Jessica's behavior in the past, she's been involved in her fair share of drama and always comes off in the same overbearing and aggressive manner. If he wanted to leave SlayerS(a team he was getting little to nothing from aside from the name) and didn't want to have to go through Jessica(who honestly seems to be sort of a nightmare to me), I can understand why he would lie. I'm not saying it's right, but it's understandable. It's also important to note that Golden(I'm not sure about Sleep) was living in the SlayerS house for extended periods of time while Dragon was not. He seemed to be getting very little from SlayerS and they displayed no intention of investing more than they had in him. I don't see why Jessica is throwing such a colossal fit over a player that the team clearly never really considered an asset in the first place, even if he did lie. Dragon would also have to be a moron to think that leaving the team, returning to work and then a week later returning to looking for a team would not be conspicuous. It is quite possible that in this time frame he realized that he could possibly get from a foreign team, all that he was not getting from SlayerS. No matter how it goes though, this isn't the first time Jessica is at the center of a boat load of drama and I doubt it will be the last. She seems to have a penchant for histrionics and it does nothing but put me off her team. So you're saying that Dragon was justifid in lying to the management of his team because he didn't get to live in the house? We have absolutely no idea what his contract status was, how much if anything he was paid, how he interacted with people behind the scenes... Literally all we know about the guy is that he's a popular-ish streamer with a shady past. If Slayers didn't value him, then you have to think they wouldn't oppose him moving somewhere else. The team had much more invested in Sleep and Golden, and yet both players openly moved to other teams. Jessica's position has always been extremely positive about those moves. So if Dragon just wanted to leave, then he has no reason to lie. The only way that action makes sense is if he was under contract, quote-unquote retired to get out of that contract, and then was able to sign with a new team. That's entirely consistent with his behavior after his maphacking/stream cheating scandal; he publically apologized and promised to retire from pro gaming forever, only to break that promise little more than a month later. This is a tool he's used before. I mean, the most charitable interpretation you've offered is that Dragon was too cowardly to tell his management that he was leaving, despite other teammates moving along with nothing but well wishes from Jessica. That seems flimsy to me.
I never said Dragon was justified, so no. I said I understand why he(or someone in general) would lie to get out of dealing with Jessica based on her aggressive and dramatic behavior in the past. I have little love for Dragon, I've barely watched his stream and don't consider him a particularly impressive player, apparently, neither did SlayerS since they never really use him for anything. Now, if he lied to get out of his contract then it's a dick move, I have yet to say otherwise so I'm not sure why you'd try and put words in my mouth.
My response is in regards to Jessica's reaction which is absolutely ridiculous in regards to a player that SlayerS could not have considered much of an asset based on what I know of him. There is also the possibility(albeit unlikely) that he is just an indecisive person when it comes to gaming, immediately doubling back on decisions to quit.
The point I'm making is in regards to the topic of Jessica's tweets and her overreaction in general. This isn't the first time she's had outbursts like this and it probably won't be the last. She comes across as hypocritical, abrasive and overdramatic.
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I thought twitter was banned in korea
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On March 09 2012 05:21 razmusmoren wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 20:49 -orb- wrote:
Jessica should take some courses on PR
Her business sense is amazing but holy shit does she handle these situations poorly Pretty funny how you should comment on handling things poorly seeing you handled the criticism after being outed by the community on giving racial slurs on ladder "poorly"
This
On topic:
Seems a bit melodramatic and unprofessional by western standards but without knowing exactly what has happened between Dragon and SlayerS I won't judge either of them
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There is no such thing as bad publicity.
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EPT
