EPTOn March 04 2012 14:13 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Zealot 1.6
Zealot 1.6
Why am I not surprised? And then when Charge, armor, and shield upgrades kick in... *shudders*
Health per cost - Page 4
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kckkryptonite
1126 Posts
Why am I not surprised? And then when Charge, armor, and shield upgrades kick in... *shudders* | ||
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Vaporak
70 Posts
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Hope you considered that zerg units in general have 1 more health then shown atleast if they can't get one shotted. Most of the time the ling will be more a 1.44 instead of a 1.4 that way, though they are one hit some times. About the gas cost ... its a different resource so trying to translate gas into minerals is quiet difficult. You can take a base just for mining gas, I do that quiet often. So using the base mining per minute on max or optimal saturation is something easy, but not really accurate. (also you would have to add a mule mining for terran per base as it works independent of workers and increases the mineral income, making gas even more valuable) | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
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figq
12519 Posts
I'm interested in the same health per cost table for all buildings in the game too. Awesome idea for research, props and thanks a lot! One variation is to add the supply costs: Zealot costs 1/4 Pylon supply = +25 minerals Zergling costs 1/16 Overlord supply = +6.25 minerals Another note is that the hull damage of Protoss has no way of being restored by a Protoss, so that means their HP+Shield scores are supposed to be cheaper than the HP scores of the other races, which have ways to restore back to 100%, whereas Protoss only restores the Shield part. EDIT: Alright, I made the table for buildings' "health per cost": (3g+1m cost; toss hp+shields; zerg +50 cost for a drone) 12.00 Assimilator 7.33 Cybernetics Core 6.80 Engineering Bay 6.67 Gateway 6.67 Extractor 6.67 Refinery 6.67 Barracks 6.00 Evolution Chamber 5.33 Forge 5.00 Nexus 4.29 Hatchery 4.25 Roach Warren 4.17 Ghost Academy 4.00 Pylon 4.00 Spawning Pool 4.00 Supply Depot 4.00 Bunker 3.75 Command Center 3.20 Spore Crawler 3.20 Tech Lab 2.89 Starport 2.83 Baneling Nest 2.78 Factory 2.50 Missile Turret 2.22 Twilight Council 2.00 Photon Cannon 2.00 Stargate 2.00 Spine Crawler 2.00 Reactor 1.89 Hydralisk Den 1.89 Infestation Pit 1.80 Robotics Facility 1.67 Armory 1.33 Templar Archives 1.25 Robotics Bay 1.25 Fusion Core 1.18 Dark Shrine 1.11 Fleet Beacon 1.06 Nydus Network 1.06 Ultralisk Cavern 1.00 Spire 0.47 Sensor Tower | ||
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Drunken.Jedi
Germany446 Posts
On March 06 2012 12:59 Kharnage wrote: The other part of stalkers is that half their HP is shields, so half their HP will regen after combat. only a 3rd of zealot hp will regen after combat. Also the final piece of the puzzle regarding stalkers is how few options protoss has as an alternative. Protoss ground units that can shoot up: Sentry, Stalker, Archon. Did I miss anything? Nope, that's it. If you don't want to build air units your anti-air is stalkers. I've been tossing around (get it?) the idea of getting a couple of phoenix late game instead of stalkers since they are tougher, faster and do more damage to air units than stalkers do. So if I swap my stalker supply into immortals and phoenix I get a stronger army...maybe. Worth playing with the idea anyway. All Terran bio will regen after combat once medivacs are on the field, which changes things dramatically. (emphasis added) You say that as if it's something unusual. However, no other race has more GtA units. Terran has Marines, Thors and Ghosts and Zerg only gets up to three if you count Queens and Infested Terrans. | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
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Kharnage
Australia920 Posts
On March 07 2012 04:51 Drunken.Jedi wrote: (emphasis added) You say that as if it's something unusual. However, no other race has more GtA units. Terran has Marines, Thors and Ghosts and Zerg only gets up to three if you count Queens and Infested Terrans. That's not my point at all. Protoss MUST protect their colossus from flying AA and the only unit that is capable of doing that is the stalker. The Archon doesn't have the range and the Sentry doesn't have the dps or the range. A zerg going BL has the same issue, however they will have corruptors (unless they over make BL and then they have only themselves to blame) A terran has to protect their ... umm ... medivacs? *shrug* | ||
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clever_us
United States329 Posts
gotta love em | ||
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TheToaster
United States280 Posts
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archon256
United States363 Posts
On March 07 2012 09:27 TheToaster wrote: As a Protoss player, I would have considered Roaches to have a higher health per cost ratio. I hate when my PvZ's reach that mid-game stage when Zerg just decides to shit out a billion Roaches. Such an army takes forever to kill. Sure I can Forcefield the Roaches, make engagements favorable with Immortals or Void Rays, but the sheer time it takes to clean up a fully Roach army just seems ridiculous sometimes. I guess that's more of a match-up discussion than pure ratio numbers. I think Roaches fall in the sweet spot where they're tanky enough to not be obliterated by splash and are yet cheap enough to be mass produced. Then you throw in things like their (albeit small) ranged attack, burrow-move and burrow-regen, and it makes for truly fearsome little critters. Man, I still remember beta roaches. Delicious. Of course, they do have their disadvantages. The high supply cost is one of the main ones, I think. (And since that isn't much of a factor mid-game, it explains what you observe, while still being a big limitation once Zerg nears max) | ||
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Kharnage
Australia920 Posts
On March 07 2012 09:41 archon256 wrote: I think Roaches fall in the sweet spot where they're tanky enough to not be obliterated by splash and are yet cheap enough to be mass produced. Then you throw in things like their (albeit small) ranged attack, burrow-move and burrow-regen, and it makes for truly fearsome little critters. Man, I still remember beta roaches. Delicious. Of course, they do have their disadvantages. The high supply cost is one of the main ones, I think. (And since that isn't much of a factor mid-game, it explains what you observe, while still being a big limitation once Zerg nears max) Standard Gold level ZvP: Zerg opens roach and maxes out, prepares to composition switch. 1A's mass roach army to clear up supply for remax into better composition into Protoss army who messes up FF. Zerg wins.  | ||
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Drunken.Jedi
Germany446 Posts
On March 07 2012 09:17 Kharnage wrote: That's not my point at all. Protoss MUST protect their colossus from flying AA and the only unit that is capable of doing that is the stalker. The Archon doesn't have the range and the Sentry doesn't have the dps or the range. A zerg going BL has the same issue, however they will have corruptors (unless they over make BL and then they have only themselves to blame) A terran has to protect their ... umm ... medivacs? *shrug* No, I did not miss your point as that was not a point you were making. Your post didn't even mention Collossi or the need to protect them from AtA units. All you were talking about was general anti air, which is about as important for the other races. Also, Protoss does not have to use Collossi as there are enough viable builds in any matchup that do not involve Collossi. | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
PM Profile Report Quote # Not sure 3.58:1 gas:mineral ratio is the best one to use, but anyone advocating using 1:1 is insane. 1-1 ratio is the only reasonable one to use, people only value one more then the other once their needs dont come in the 3 to 1 ratio the standard base provides. The opportunity costs are the same (3 suv,s mine gas as fast as they mine minerals) as long as you mine them in a 3 to 1 ratio and 3 to 1 is a decent ratio, if you would want to mine in a 4 to1 or 2 to 1 ratio the opportunity costs go up , this goes for both the gas and the minerals! Terran in lategame situations often have no use for gas at all,and would rather have only minerals, wich is one reason terrans dont hesitate to make reactors instead of baracks. gas is even worth less then minerals here. i still stand by the ratio of 4 for the bunker btw, you do get 400 hp for 100 minerals, and you can give them to a bio unit of your choise A bunker has manny other disadvantages, like beeing highly immobile but i realy think its great value for monney when it comes to simply adding hp | ||
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