EPT The problem doesn't stop there the caster in question continued despite his co-caster's attempts to stop him.
PLayhem TV Disgrace Katu - Page 37
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Dijego
Netherlands33 Posts
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corose
United States31 Posts
I watched the video, and it seems people have had an insane overreaction. Katu called out Dragon's style as greedy, which just as well it was, and also cited him as having a history of cheating, which apparently there has been some instances of that. Bam, end of story. That's it, so what? Everyone can have an opinion of players, even casters. It's their job to narrate, and providing backstories is often a component to that. The playhem dailies are fairly casual tournaments, so I can't tell if those in the sc2 community are in their last trimester and have hormones going crazy, or if...well I guess Dragon fans could be as crazy as deezer fans. Casters are certainly allowed to criticize play, I've listened to Artosis and Tastosis, Incontrol, Mr. Bitter, and Rotterdam criticize tons of styles of play or decision making, and on online tournaments i've heard many casters also consider the option of one of the participants stream cheating when curious decisions occur without in game knowledge. Katu doesn't even say that he knows it, he only suggests the possibility, and makes a little fun in light of dragon complaining about lag after his first loss, when obviously it was a build order win. My gosh, this is the biggest overreaction i've ever witnessed from the sc2 community. And the sad thing is, it's about something that doesn't matter. There is a post right now about the state of mind when using words like fag, and gay as cuss words and insults, and the main reaction in that thread is, "who cares, that's not what those people are intending to say, and it's the internet, it happens so get over it." Those are actual personal attacks for no reason. The comments towards dragon were far less insulting, and said with almost no hostility, yet to THIS the community is outraged? That is just a major shame, and a great example of how pathetic the majority of people are, especially online (which, despite an apparently common notion, is not acceptable). This world needs some Light to clean it up. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On February 29 2012 11:19 Dijego wrote: Did not his co-caster try to divert the subject and try to ease the situation while the caster in question kept rambling on adding oil to the fire? Maybe you aren't watching the same VoD in question located in the OP. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On February 29 2012 11:03 Blasterion wrote: It won't happen to them, because it's a different culture. Across cultures the same behavior is interpeted very differently, especially when it comes to joking and sarcasm.I wonder would the Korean netizens and KeSPA would've done if their casters did stuff like this... Maybe it's because they take organization so seriously that their scene flourished and lasted while our scene just started to expand. On February 29 2012 11:04 sereniity wrote: Or as in this case, put you away for a few days, so some silly drama settles and you don't get overwhelmed by uninformed haters next time you try to cast.Yeah indeed, and if your boss doesn't like your style of casting - you get fired! whoa, that was simple, right? | ||
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Dijego
Netherlands33 Posts
@ Corose, I agree with you to a certain extend... The internet is what it is, but if everybody would start trolling in 'real jobs' as what being a caster in playhem should be or at least represent. The world would be messier than it is. The way people should treat each other is with respect, meaning that you acknowledge the fact that 'fake insults' could be actually taken seriously and should therefor be avoided as much as possible. It is indeed a blown up thing, but it shows that you need to be careful with your freedom of speech and opinion and what not. People will take it out of context. Regards, Dijego | ||
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DrAbuse
Germany209 Posts
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LimeNade
United States2125 Posts
 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAHHHH | ||
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anApple
Singapore275 Posts
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
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brobrah
220 Posts
I figured there had to be something racist or just down right vitriolic for this. But no. I swear every time I hear about someone being disrespectful or mean it's just something you'd say to a friend when you're joking around. Doing it while casting is a bad idea but come on, cut the guy some slack. | ||
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Qiox
Canada36 Posts
1) It has been said by many in this discussion that Katu should be given a 2nd chance. I agree, and he was given a 2nd chance, and now he has blown it. That's right, this is not the 1st time he has angered the viewers and embarrassed Playhem. Not too long ago while casting a game involving Destiny vs (I don't remember who), Katu went off on a prolonged homophobic rant. Whatever your views on that subject, it is certainly not something a caster should be going on about during a match. This is now twice that he has pointed a negative light on the company he represented. He got his 2nd chance and now his behavior is more trend than isolated incident. 2) I watch Dragon's stream quite often and I have for quite a long time now. Since he left Slayers he often hits 3000-4000 viewers. Some have suggested that him being at those numbers today is because of this incident. It really is not an unusual number of viewers for him lately. 3) It has been suggested that he could be cheating by having a 2nd monitor or laptop on hand. Those who say this must not have ever watched his stream. You see a fairly wide angle shot of him on his webcam. The 2nd screen would have to be quite far away. And when he's playing, he is famous for his 'serious face' that he puts on as he focuses on the screen right in front of him. (except for when he A-moves into 'toss's natural then stands up, walks around behind his chair and does a dance and doesn't even bother to watch or micro the winning fight lolol). There is no chance at all that he has a 2nd screen and if he does, he obviously never looks at it! 4) Dragon's standard play against Zerg is to go depot-cc-rax... He gets a 3rd cc at 4:00-4:30, a 4th cc at 5:30-6:00 and a 5th cc before 10 minutes. He does this all the time vs zerg. Nothing in his games in this tournament was the least bit unusual for him. And on a slightly related topic, grats to Dragon for taking 2nd place in today's EU Playhem! And now a bit of opinion. Many people want esports to be taken seriously. And yet there are many people posting here in this thread pointing out that this is just a game, that people are taking this incident too seriously, that people are just drama queens, that it's just trolling. The people making those comments, are exactly what the people who want it to be taken seriously are talking about. It seems that there are many who don't want, or don't care if esports is ever taken seriously. Those people, I doubt, will ever take an incident like this, or something similar, seriously. PS> Yes this is my 1st post, but I have been visiting this site on a daily basis for over a year. | ||
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esotericc
449 Posts
1) It has been said by many in this discussion that Katu should be given a 2nd chance. I agree, and he was given a 2nd chance, and now he has blown it. That's right, this is not the 1st time he has angered the viewers and embarrassed Playhem. Not too long ago while casting a game involving Destiny vs (I don't remember who), Katu went off on a prolonged homophobic rant. Whatever your views on that subject, it is certainly not something a caster should be going on about during a match. This is now twice that he has pointed a negative light on the company he represented. He got his 2nd chance and now his behavior is more trend than isolated incident. I think a lot of people are ignoring this fact, Katu did not "have a bad day and made a mistake" or "slipped up" he is an asshole, and has been ever since I started watching him cast. *edit* the main reason western esports is still to young to prosper is because we still have this strange idea that your a cool guy if you can troll people and it should be acceptable when someone does it on an official forum such as a cast or a broadcast. If you want esports to be taken seriously you have to take it seriously as well. | ||
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esotericc
449 Posts
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
My thought process when Katu first suggests Dragon could be cheating: "Oh how silly, Dragon obviously isn't prepared for the roach all-in. What kind of stream cheating is that? But meh, mistakes happen. Plenty of casters predict/analyze things wrong, I won't be anal about it." And then when it turned ugly, with Katu telling Dragon fans to "eat it", laughing obnoxiously, etc. : "WTF, this guy such is a huge douche. I'm not tuning in on anything he streams." | ||
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Putain_De_Putois
France9 Posts
So a caster isn't free to make jokes on a player that admitted he stream cheated (about a year ago) ? Where is this whole esport thing going to ? New comer viewers in a chat decide for the whole comunity ? WTF ? Those dragon's viewers they should take things easy and know who they are supporting, and be able to take jokes about what the man did wrong. Just saying. | ||
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brachester
Australia1786 Posts
On February 29 2012 12:34 Putain_De_Putois wrote: That is getting pretty far... So a caster isn't free to make jokes on a player that admitted he stream cheated (about a year ago) ? Where is this whole esport thing going to ? New comer viewers in a chat decide for the whole comunity ? WTF ? Those dragon's viewers they should take things easy and know who they are supporting, and be able to take jokes about what the man did wrong. Just saying. You can ofc joke around, but there's a limit to how appropriate the jokes can be. Since the majority of people whom are working in esport is to get it into the professional mainstream sport, i'm going to make a comparison to football (soccer). In soccer, Andy Gray, one of the most notable caster in the WORLD, made a joke about the female ref in a Premier League game "I don't know if she know the rules or not". Everyone knows this was a joke, but still angry at it, and in the end he got fired. Yes, Dragon stream cheated about what? year ago? but he admitted it. You don't make jokes about people's bad past like that when they're obviously have changed. You hit people who are running away not those who are running back. | ||
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654321
Belize100 Posts
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654321
Belize100 Posts
People arguing about Dragon's past etc. are missing the point. The biggest issue, for me, was Katu's treatment of the viewers and handling of the situation. You don't just blatantly insult viewers, that is bad business. Katu apologized "during" and "the end" during DRAGON game. Seem like a nice guy to me. Normal trolled succeed. Then say sorry right after. Katu is so funny and by far one of the best caster out there. | ||
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Probasaur
United States461 Posts
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