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On February 20 2012 01:12 VoO wrote:
I'd like to append that I really like this discussion since I personally think every company which is connected to the internet should employ a security specialist and a company which distribute a multiplayer game should hire a professional anti-hacking company. That's my main issue with this thing, since Blizzard can hire a mathematician for the matchmaking algrotithm but apparantly not a security professional.
Well said, i think sooner or later they will do it.
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It's funny because I heard of this paper from one of my teacher that said one of his PhD student made a MapHack for sc2.
The adavntage of the proposed method is that it makes maphack impossible if you respect the protocol, because the computer don't recieve all the informations. However it may create some problems, like more computation and problem for the replays (how do you construct a replay, send everything in the end ?), and I don't think it would be easy for blizzard to implement it.
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Lol some people are getting a bit paranoid. Most of what the OP said is true. And someone asked if he's a hacker. He probably does know a lot of elements of hacking. Clearly when he says in quotes "yuck" talking about source codes he has had prior experience looking thoughtfully at source codes. And he talks about dll injects etc. So shortly he is probably a hacker. And that's cool fun knowledge to use. He obviously knows the consequences of SC2 hacking and doesn't seem like he'd even bother. There is enough cool things to mess around with hacking skills that WONT come with consequences. This makes me miss back in the day where my friend and I made hacks for online games using dll injections. That was a fun learning experience as he was way better at it than I
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On February 20 2012 04:16 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 04:12 Berailfor wrote:
Lol some people are getting a bit paranoid. Most of what the OP said is true. And someone asked if he's a hacker. He probably does know a lot of elements of hacking. Clearly when he says in quotes "yuck" talking about source codes he has had prior experience looking thoughtfully at source codes. And he talks about dll injects etc. So shortly he is probably a hacker. And that's cool fun knowledge to use. He obviously knows the consequences of SC2 hacking and doesn't seem like he'd even bother. There is enough cool things to mess around with hacking skills that WONT come with consequences. This makes me miss back in the day where my friend and I made hacks for online games using dll injections. That was a fun learning experience as he was way better at it than I That's basic programming knowledge + some insider info from website mentioned in OP. By your logic, any 13 year old is a hacker :D
Wait wait wait. What was the purpose of your post again? To bash on me or the OP or both? All I said was
A. He knows elements of hacking.
B. That the things he said about blizzard are a lot more true than most of the people replying on the site.
And C. I talked about my experience with having fun learning dll injection, dissasembling code, etc.
Never once did I use the term 'hacker' besides as a reference because that's not a very good word in general. A lot of programmers can hack that doesn't make them hackers. Or maybe it does. So that's why I wouldnt use the word. You just posted randomly to bash someone with probably zero hacking experience and a rude attitude. Please contribute the the conversation not just be an asshole
Edit: Even when I did say hacker it still was me saying he probably meaning it's speculation. And I also was using it to directly refer to someone on page one who was going all crazy going "your probably a hacker blah blah"
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On February 20 2012 02:45 cydial wrote:
So many people think they know better than a multi fucking billion dollar company like blizzard to the point that they give advice as if they are some adviser for an info sec company.
And have you noticed that multi billion dollar company has one of the worst social features out of any modern online game?
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Wait, its legal for them to scan my computer and see what I'm doing. Isn't that invasion of privacy? Not to be like anti-hacking but isn't that a little extreme I don't like how blizzard can do that
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On February 20 2012 04:31 TBone- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 02:45 cydial wrote:
So many people think they know better than a multi fucking billion dollar company like blizzard to the point that they give advice as if they are some adviser for an info sec company. And have you noticed that multi billion dollar company has one of the worst social features out of any modern online game?
And that proofs it! Everything! Because they had no chat from the beginning, they surely dont know how to prevent hacks and stuff and are stupid in general.
Well done, sir. Could not have done it better. /thread
.... seriously? Because they didnt have "social features" fitting your imagination, they dont know what theyre doing? Really? I have used the chat not once since its implementation. Not once. So, yeah. Glad they put the effort in it.
Not to be like anti-hacking but isn't that a little extreme I don't like how blizzard can do that
Try reading the EULA then. It clearly states it. (Point 8)
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On February 20 2012 04:34 BWalma wrote:
Wait, its legal for them to scan my computer and see what I'm doing. Isn't that invasion of privacy? Not to be like anti-hacking but isn't that a little extreme I don't like how blizzard can do that
It's in the terms of agreement.
A while back Im pretty sure they didn't have it in there for WoW but were still doing it. A guy found out and sued or something so they just real quick added it to their terms of agreement lol. At least I think that's how it went down
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On February 20 2012 04:37 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 04:31 TBone- wrote:On February 20 2012 02:45 cydial wrote:
So many people think they know better than a multi fucking billion dollar company like blizzard to the point that they give advice as if they are some adviser for an info sec company. And have you noticed that multi billion dollar company has one of the worst social features out of any modern online game? And that proofs it! Everything! Because they had no chat from the beginning, they surely dont know how to prevent hacks and stuff and are stupid in general. Well done, sir. Could not have done it better. /thread .... seriously? Because they didnt have "social features" fitting your imagination, they dont know what theyre doing? Really? I have used the chat not once since its implementation. Not once. So, yeah. Glad they put the effort in it.
would you kindly read the whole topic instead of reading a statement out of context, and trying to insert your meaningless statement there, obviously not acknowledging the truth that lies behind some people' words?
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Clearly protoss needs a bisu build.
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On February 20 2012 02:45 cydial wrote:
So many people think they know better than a multi fucking billion dollar company like blizzard to the point that they give advice as if they are some adviser for an info sec company.
Yes that's actually how it works. One single guy owns a billion dollar company, happens all the time. Most companies don't know about information security and learn it only the hard way, e.g. Sony. There are myriads of examples where high profile companies got owned by a single basement dweller.
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On February 20 2012 04:41 Sergio1992 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 04:37 m4inbrain wrote:On February 20 2012 04:31 TBone- wrote:On February 20 2012 02:45 cydial wrote:
So many people think they know better than a multi fucking billion dollar company like blizzard to the point that they give advice as if they are some adviser for an info sec company. And have you noticed that multi billion dollar company has one of the worst social features out of any modern online game? And that proofs it! Everything! Because they had no chat from the beginning, they surely dont know how to prevent hacks and stuff and are stupid in general. Well done, sir. Could not have done it better. /thread .... seriously? Because they didnt have "social features" fitting your imagination, they dont know what theyre doing? Really? I have used the chat not once since its implementation. Not once. So, yeah. Glad they put the effort in it. would you kindly read the whole topic instead of reading a statement out of context, and trying to insert your meaningless statement there, obviously not acknowledging the truth that lies behind some people' words?
Well there is no truth, because the "argument" has nothing to do with the actual topic? OP said "hacking hard/impossible". 12 guys saying "nah, pretty easy". One guy says "well im sure you know better than a multibillion company". Then someone comes and says "yeah, i saw that regarding their social options".
Wtf? So now you can judge the priority of anti-cheat-measures in companies with looking at their social services? Yeah, that really sounds like an argument to me. Really.
Edit: and "the truth" is, the "worst social features" is not even true, not that it would matter, but just to have it said.
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On February 19 2012 23:59 dehdar wrote:
Now to the hacks that don't use .dll injections. These work by continuously reading from process memory to fetch unit locations, unit/structure production and use these data to render graphics on your screen displaying the amount of expansions, unit counters, current production and unit locations. These hacks are not very widespread and the ones that exists only offer a limited amount of basic features. For instance to disable FoW without using .dll injections, you must read all unit locations every 10-100ms from the SC2 process (unless you don't want real-time updates of the unit locations), render these units (huge work unless you render them as circles, dots, squares, triangles, which gives you a poor idea of what units you're looking at) and remove all rendered units from your screen, if they're in your field of view AND your field of view isn't on FoW, so you don't have the rendered twice... Any developer can tell you, this isn't a viable option... its too much work, and the end result won't be good unless you put A LOT of time in rendering the units (good luck) which is why nobody has or will implement disabling FoW without using .dll injection.
I kind of strongly disagree with this (and your previous statement that these hacks are not widespread). Something as simple as a live production tab during the game gives you a huge advantage in the game. Starcraft is a game about information, and these non-injection hacks can give you all the information you need to win a game against someone equal your skill. You can blindly counter everything without the need of any kind of map hack. Frankly, the non-dll-injection hacks are far more damaging to the game, since they are not as easy to detect, and this is the point where Blizzard fails.
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On February 20 2012 04:43 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 04:41 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 20 2012 04:37 m4inbrain wrote:On February 20 2012 04:31 TBone- wrote:On February 20 2012 02:45 cydial wrote:
So many people think they know better than a multi fucking billion dollar company like blizzard to the point that they give advice as if they are some adviser for an info sec company. And have you noticed that multi billion dollar company has one of the worst social features out of any modern online game? And that proofs it! Everything! Because they had no chat from the beginning, they surely dont know how to prevent hacks and stuff and are stupid in general. Well done, sir. Could not have done it better. /thread .... seriously? Because they didnt have "social features" fitting your imagination, they dont know what theyre doing? Really? I have used the chat not once since its implementation. Not once. So, yeah. Glad they put the effort in it. would you kindly read the whole topic instead of reading a statement out of context, and trying to insert your meaningless statement there, obviously not acknowledging the truth that lies behind some people' words? Well there is no truth, because the "argument" has nothing to do with the actual topic? OP said "hacking hard/impossible". 12 guys saying "nah, pretty easy". One guy says "well im sure you know better than a multibillion company". Then someone comes and says "yeah, i saw that regarding their social options". Wtf? So now you can judge the priority of anti-cheat-measures in companies with looking at their social services? Yeah, that really sounds like an argument to me. Really. Edit: and "the truth" is, the "worst social features" is not even true, not that it would matter, but just to have it said.
The social feature lack was just one simple example out of a bunch many other things. Just get the big picture. Blizzard isn't a software security company. Providing a "perfect" Warden being capable of detecting almost every hack (even the unknown ones) would mean that they would have solved a problem that the anti virus industry (btw, also a multi billion dollar industry) has been struggeling with for a decade. I'd say it's rather unlikely Blizzard managed to do that 
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On February 20 2012 03:50 kubiks wrote:It's funny because I heard of this paper from one of my teacher that said one of his PhD student made a MapHack for sc2. The adavntage of the proposed method is that it makes maphack impossible if you respect the protocol, because the computer don't recieve all the informations. However it may create some problems, like more computation and problem for the replays (how do you construct a replay, send everything in the end ?), and I don't think it would be easy for blizzard to implement it.
You can download replay from the server after game was played. In addition, those replays could be published to everyone (not just players involved into particular game) and you could download and watch them directly in the SC2 client. In another addition, gamers could join already running game and observe it. If only Blizzard did it properly with this on mind. They didn't. And I bet they won't implement it in future releases.
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On February 20 2012 04:43 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 04:41 Sergio1992 wrote:On February 20 2012 04:37 m4inbrain wrote:On February 20 2012 04:31 TBone- wrote:On February 20 2012 02:45 cydial wrote:
So many people think they know better than a multi fucking billion dollar company like blizzard to the point that they give advice as if they are some adviser for an info sec company. And have you noticed that multi billion dollar company has one of the worst social features out of any modern online game? And that proofs it! Everything! Because they had no chat from the beginning, they surely dont know how to prevent hacks and stuff and are stupid in general. Well done, sir. Could not have done it better. /thread .... seriously? Because they didnt have "social features" fitting your imagination, they dont know what theyre doing? Really? I have used the chat not once since its implementation. Not once. So, yeah. Glad they put the effort in it. would you kindly read the whole topic instead of reading a statement out of context, and trying to insert your meaningless statement there, obviously not acknowledging the truth that lies behind some people' words? Well there is no truth, because the "argument" has nothing to do with the actual topic? OP said "hacking hard/impossible". 12 guys saying "nah, pretty easy". One guy says "well im sure you know better than a multibillion company". Then someone comes and says "yeah, i saw that regarding their social options". Wtf? So now you can judge the priority of anti-cheat-measures in companies with looking at their social services? Yeah, that really sounds like an argument to me. Really. Edit: and "the truth" is, the "worst social features" is not even true, not that it would matter, but just to have it said.
Ok, I'll help you. They said they didn't even give what promised us (go in this topic http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308482 to understand what we are talking about) , how can they do a good work with hacks?
The correlation is
They promised it = they didn't give us
They didn't promise it = imagine how much they care about hacks if they don't even care giving what should be rightfully ours according to their promises 
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I don't understand how people have so little faith in Blizzard. I mean considering how many ressources they're invested to lower the amount of hacks compared to billion dollar industries that makes Blizzard look like a locale sausage factory, they should get a medal!
We can spend all day discussing how it's Blizzard's fault that a random guy who knows how to program, can make a hack in less than a day or to be very specific disable FoW with less than 25 lines of code.
But when you take into consideration that the U.S. military, Pentagon and NASA were all hacked by single persons, whom were very capable hackers, but nothing extra-ordinary, then I fail to see how all this anger towards blizzard can be justified. Robert Butyka a 26 year old developer gained full access to NASA's servers and databases. Same with the famous scott Gary McKinnon when he hacked Pentagon...
As I mentioned, Blizzard has invested a lot of ressources in implementing and updating Warden, and they have educated and hired full time staff to watch replays, they're spending countless of hours, days, weeks, months tracking and suing hackers... What more can they do without breaking the law? Perhaps they should install a worm that will monitor all activies on your machine, send suspicious activies back to mechanical turks working 24/7 at Blizzard so they can dispatch a Hitman to pay the hackers a visit? Will that be satisfying? Actually thinking of it... It kind of will But seriously, what more can they do? I don't mean to be "optimistic" or "support" Blizzard, I just express my opinion.
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On February 20 2012 05:07 dehdar wrote:I don't understand how people have so little faith in Blizzard. I mean considering how many ressources they're invested to lower the amount of hacks compared to billion dollar industries that makes Blizzard look like a locale sausage factory, they should get a medal! We can spend all day discussing how it's Blizzard's fault that a random guy who knows how to program, can make a hack in less than a day or to be very specific disable FoW with less than 25 lines of code. But when you take into consideration that the U.S. military, Pentagon and NASA were all hacked by single persons, whom were very capable hackers, but nothing extra-ordinary, then I fail to see how all this anger towards blizzard can be justified. Robert Butyka a 26 year old developer gained full access to NASA's servers and databases. Same with the famous scott Gary McKinnon when he hacked Pentagon... As I mentioned, Blizzard has invested a lot of ressources in implementing and updating Warden, and they have educated and hired full time staff to watch replays, they're spending countless of hours, days, weeks, months tracking and suing hackers... What more can they do without breaking the law? Perhaps they should install a worm that will monitor all activies on your machine, send suspicious activies back to mechanical turks working 24/7 at Blizzard so they can dispatch a Hitman to pay the hackers a visit? Will that be satisfying? Actually thinking of it... It kind of will But seriously, what more can they do? I don't mean to be "optimistic" or "support" Blizzard, I just express my opinion.
no , it is different
When you know someone is doing his best , and is putting all the effort needed, even if he fails, you are happy with that
When you see someone that isn't doing shit, but pretend to be doing a great job, and also lies to you, you can't say that you are mean with him, you are just being realistic.
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On February 20 2012 05:11 Sergio1992 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 05:07 dehdar wrote:I don't understand how people have so little faith in Blizzard. I mean considering how many ressources they're invested to lower the amount of hacks compared to billion dollar industries that makes Blizzard look like a locale sausage factory, they should get a medal! We can spend all day discussing how it's Blizzard's fault that a random guy who knows how to program, can make a hack in less than a day or to be very specific disable FoW with less than 25 lines of code. But when you take into consideration that the U.S. military, Pentagon and NASA were all hacked by single persons, whom were very capable hackers, but nothing extra-ordinary, then I fail to see how all this anger towards blizzard can be justified. Robert Butyka a 26 year old developer gained full access to NASA's servers and databases. Same with the famous scott Gary McKinnon when he hacked Pentagon... As I mentioned, Blizzard has invested a lot of ressources in implementing and updating Warden, and they have educated and hired full time staff to watch replays, they're spending countless of hours, days, weeks, months tracking and suing hackers... What more can they do without breaking the law? Perhaps they should install a worm that will monitor all activies on your machine, send suspicious activies back to mechanical turks working 24/7 at Blizzard so they can dispatch a Hitman to pay the hackers a visit? Will that be satisfying? Actually thinking of it... It kind of will But seriously, what more can they do? I don't mean to be "optimistic" or "support" Blizzard, I just express my opinion. no , it is different When you know someone is doing his best , and is putting all the effort needed, even if he fails, you are happy with that When you see someone that isn't doing shit, but pretend to be doing a great job, and also lies to you, you can't say that you are mean with him, you are just being realistic.
Sergio care to explain what Blizzard COULD be doing that they aren't? Or will you keep that as a secret?
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EPT
