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On February 18 2012 21:46 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 21:36 Snowbear wrote:On February 18 2012 21:22 ReseT wrote:On February 18 2012 13:16 vileIllusion wrote:
Do they do this to see how the game runs in tournaments? Seems to happen alot....... Also what is ANZ server? AZN is New Zealand I think? I might be wrong.. Anyways, for all of you complaining about the ghost, please stop crying. You think this is bad? How do you think us Protoss felt when they took the amulet from us? We're still surviving aren't we? There's always another option, you're just going to have to find it and adapt. For example, when toss had no amulet we started to notice "Oh, if we upgrade quickly, our army can be strong enough without colossus to go to HT and and rack up energy". There is always another option, and honestly I feel like ravens would be such an awesome idea. I love the unit and I feel like if played correctly, they can actually make some entertaining games. As to Blizzard putting the patch before a tournament.. Lol... It's like back in MLG when the medivac nerf came.. ] Edit: FiveOhFive, Protoss got a shit ton of nerfs.. Toss players never found out about "upgrading quickly". Blizzard buffed their upgrade costs. Same for warpprism usage: blizzard buffed the warpprism. Terrans are the big innovators:- thors in tvp --> nerf thor - blueflame hellion strats --> nerf the hellion - battlecruisers in tvp --> nerf the damage from bc's - mech --> nerf the tanks from 60 damage to 35 (LOL) - finally a tier 3 unit that has a chance against the VERY STRONG hive + infestor composition --> nerf it so it can't be used. I would like to remind blizzard about the state of TvZ before people started using ghosts. During that time, David Kim even said in an interview that they were going to look into infestor + broodlord. Yeah I agree, there never was double forge fast upgrade before the cost reduction. Oh wait.... Yes terrans players are uber creative super smart human beings whereas Ps and Zs are just lucky to have chosen the right race, blizzard needs to nerf the players not the race. I agree as well - herp derp.
Terran was blatantly overpowered in the late beta and early release days. This caused more korean players to choose terran, and thus there has been more innovation on the terran strategies. At the very tip top of skill I think it's fairly clear that the best players play terran. This unfortunate fact is to be expected when a game starts out imbalanced. Luckily, in theory, zerg and protoss strategies will catch up (as they are now) and surpass terran until terran sucks. Then, there will be more patches to help terran. Or maybe (most likely) HOTS will reset the balance entropy.
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On February 18 2012 16:51 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 16:36 Greenei wrote:On February 18 2012 15:06 Ectrid wrote:On February 18 2012 13:56 Active.815 wrote:On February 18 2012 13:22 Ectrid wrote:On February 18 2012 12:49 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
--------- So they release the patch 1 day before Assembly AND MLG? Are they... I dont know, retarded? no wonder jinro has no success, moaning about changes everyone will experience... YOU NEED THE EYE OF THE TIGER JINRO! STOP BEEING SUCH A SOMETHING!  Because, you know, releasing a game-changing patch that will affect almost every pro T's lategame strategy is such a wise idea and Jinro isn't qualified to point out how dumb it is? Ofc ourse Jinro can state his opinion, that's not the point... And nerfing Terran makes me really, really, i mean really really a sad panda.... poor terrans... terrans really had a hard time since release... really.... It's funny because it's actually true, that foreign terrans havent won a big tourney in FOREVER. The last that I can remember is TSL 3 LOL Funny thing is,Korean terran win almost every GSL since the release.LOL
Last time I checked Jinro was a foreigner and people give him shit, because he doesn't like a gamechanging patch 1 day before major tourneys. And they do it with the reason, that terran has always done well in Sc2, which is just bs for the foreigner scene. (The international winrates are heavily scewed due to korean terran participation in foreign toruneys)
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as a player from SEA this is frustrating. I prefer to ladder on NA as the skill level is much higher, but i have SEACL and SEACC to play in the week the patches are diffferent.. so annoying
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On February 18 2012 21:38 ppdealer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 21:12 fiveohfive wrote:On February 18 2012 20:42 AnalThermometer wrote:It would be quite amusing if no PTR resulted in some huge bug sneaking in, Blizzard has a history of changing stuff like Ultralisk splash or Phoenix lift when trying to balance completely seperate units. On February 18 2012 19:21 fiveohfive wrote:It's amazing, with all the Terran hate since the release of SC2.... look where Terran has ended up now. Nerfed to the shit-house (you would of thought they had a 100% win rate since release with the amount of nerfs) and now screwing over those professional Terran players who make a living from this game. I must say to those who have stuck with Terran through all the nerfs and community hate, I give respect to. It's just sad to see where Terran is now simply because of whiners. Oh wells, Terran players keep fighting! @ Telcontar, I think Blizzard has just jumped on the Terran hate bandwagon. Apparently, there is no reason for a PTR when Terran gets nerfed now. God bless those selfless Terran players. A courageous display of grit and determination to ride out these tough times where their win ratio can drop to almost as low as 50% in a match up. I wouldn't take those stats as gospel. Maybe you should look deeper into it and see how much of that 50% are all ins? Granted, yeah it maybe 50%..... but I'd much rather see the Terran race at least semi decent late-game, right now they are trash. But if this how Blizzard wants Terran to be played, I guess there no point in me complaining. EDIT: Everyone complains about how many units that the ghost counters, people should look at what feedback counters against Terran. 1. The threat of all-in translate to late-game macro advantage since you get to play more greedily in the early game. Current PvT is a good example of this. 2. If you don't like counting all-in wins as wins, how would you feel reverting the build time of OC from 35 to 50 seconds? The same goes for the build time of Starport and Factory. Banshee cloak should again require fusion core. I mean all this buff Terran has gotten that only provide "all-in wins" clearly don't count according to your logic. 3. Zerg don't have feedback, and Ghost vs Zerg is what this patch trying to address. And that's assuming feedback counters ghost at all, which isn't true since both snipe and emp outrange feedback and ghost have higher mobility plus cloak compared to HT. It's your fault if your ghost gets feedbacked.
I think you have completely missed what I was trying to get at here. Yes, I count all-ins as wins of course... but I'm trying to make the point that Terran is almost utter trash late-game.
What is it that Terran has late-game against Protoss?... Pretty sure you will soon realise that most late-units that Terran has just gets destroyed by feedback, with mech I'm not even going to bother going there. Now lets look at Zerg, with this snipe nerf I wouldnt be suprised if it puts Terran in the same position as the T v P MU. I agree that snipe needed to be nerfed, but please put your bias aside and at least agree that Blizzard went too far with it.
I'd also like to add, in regards to the hellion nerf I believe it was something that may have seemed OP at the time but I also think it was something all races could have adjusted dealing with it. Just imagine, Protoss would actually of had to split "their" units (probes) for once.......
I could go on for a while about his, but I know it only results in discussion that goes around in circles. Carry on.....
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On February 18 2012 21:51 ppdealer wrote:
- Blue-flame hellion nerf: Dark Templar originally doesn't take bonus damage from light attack. Same goes for High Templar. In that sense hellion's probably more buffed than nerfed.
WTF, I don't even.... Seriously I have no clue what you want to say with this.
But yeah, I build Hellions mainly to counter Templar, what else would I do with them?
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On February 18 2012 22:09 fiveohfive wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 21:38 ppdealer wrote:On February 18 2012 21:12 fiveohfive wrote:On February 18 2012 20:42 AnalThermometer wrote:It would be quite amusing if no PTR resulted in some huge bug sneaking in, Blizzard has a history of changing stuff like Ultralisk splash or Phoenix lift when trying to balance completely seperate units. On February 18 2012 19:21 fiveohfive wrote:It's amazing, with all the Terran hate since the release of SC2.... look where Terran has ended up now. Nerfed to the shit-house (you would of thought they had a 100% win rate since release with the amount of nerfs) and now screwing over those professional Terran players who make a living from this game. I must say to those who have stuck with Terran through all the nerfs and community hate, I give respect to. It's just sad to see where Terran is now simply because of whiners. Oh wells, Terran players keep fighting! @ Telcontar, I think Blizzard has just jumped on the Terran hate bandwagon. Apparently, there is no reason for a PTR when Terran gets nerfed now. God bless those selfless Terran players. A courageous display of grit and determination to ride out these tough times where their win ratio can drop to almost as low as 50% in a match up. I wouldn't take those stats as gospel. Maybe you should look deeper into it and see how much of that 50% are all ins? Granted, yeah it maybe 50%..... but I'd much rather see the Terran race at least semi decent late-game, right now they are trash. But if this how Blizzard wants Terran to be played, I guess there no point in me complaining. EDIT: Everyone complains about how many units that the ghost counters, people should look at what feedback counters against Terran. 1. The threat of all-in translate to late-game macro advantage since you get to play more greedily in the early game. Current PvT is a good example of this. 2. If you don't like counting all-in wins as wins, how would you feel reverting the build time of OC from 35 to 50 seconds? The same goes for the build time of Starport and Factory. Banshee cloak should again require fusion core. I mean all this buff Terran has gotten that only provide "all-in wins" clearly don't count according to your logic. 3. Zerg don't have feedback, and Ghost vs Zerg is what this patch trying to address. And that's assuming feedback counters ghost at all, which isn't true since both snipe and emp outrange feedback and ghost have higher mobility plus cloak compared to HT. It's your fault if your ghost gets feedbacked. I think you have completely missed what I was trying to get at here. Yes, I count all-ins as wins of course... but I'm trying to make the point that Terran is almost utter trash late-game. What is it that Terran has late-game against Protoss?... Pretty sure you will soon realise that most late-units that Terran has just gets destroyed by feedback, with mech I'm not even going to bother going there.
This is like a protoss player complaining that storm is completely useless versus terran because of ghost. Or zealots because of hellions. ETC
If you say the direct counter and act like you have anything to do to make it work you sir don't understand the game.
A progamer that wanted to avoid feedback against his all late game units would practice emp with the ghost for weeks until no protoss army fights with it's shields full and HT unEPMed. But no, you want an easy task not something premeditated.
It's called creating a build and fixing the loop holes. I go mech but i get feedback. Ok, how do i fix this? Just telling someone that you can't do X because Y counters it is stupid. It's exactly how the game works.
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On February 18 2012 19:19 Tofugrinder wrote:
- PTR is irrelevant since only NA players can play on it anyway, everbody from Korea, SAE and EU is excluded anyway.
- there will always be major tournament right after a patch hits. at least it's not a GSL final
They opened PTR for EU a long time ago.
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On February 18 2012 12:49 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
--------- So they release the patch 1 day before Assembly AND MLG? Are they... I dont know, retarded?
Epic comment is epic :p
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On February 18 2012 21:55 L3g3nd_ wrote:
as a player from SEA this is frustrating. I prefer to ladder on NA as the skill level is much higher, but i have SEACL and SEACC to play in the week the patches are diffferent.. so annoying
Copy paste your SC2 folder and use one for NA patched and one for SEA unpatched.
Blizz should just say to do this.
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hahaha gotta love blizzard. They release this before MLG again. Im seriously starting to wonder if they hate SC2. This + no lan is bullshit. I if I stop to watch SC2 its 100% blizzards fault and Im seriously starting to consider it. The kind of competative game Im looking for simply cant grow under these conditions.
On February 18 2012 21:04 Luppy1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2012 20:56 Darksoldierr wrote:
Why would the release the game now when 3 big tournaments are going on >.< Maybe because if the game is already determined to be imbalanced, it should be fixed before it affects more tournament games?
If you seriously think this is a good thing you have no clue how sc 2 works. People spends weeks to figure out their strategies and a patch a day before a big tournament means that the stuff theyve practiced to some degree will go obselete. The skill level of the tournament will decrease accordingly and well get shitty games with more luck involved. Sucks tbh.
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Hopefully this patch-before-tournament behavior keeps up. It will get tournaments to start using maps with custom balance, and move away from blizzard's shoddy design.
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Already ?
No change on the ghost nerf ? Even after every damn pro said it's a bad change ? ..
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I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favourite terrible decision on the Citadel.
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Whenever they release a path, it'll be an upcoming major tournament ... stop crying let them do their job.
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Well, I guess Assembly and MLG can just not download the pat- Oh wait, no they can't.
Blizzard totally cares about eSports.
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On February 18 2012 12:49 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
--------- So they release the patch 1 day before Assembly AND MLG? Are they... I dont know, retarded?
Standard.
Didn't they do the same thing at a MLG in early 2011?
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On February 18 2012 21:38 ThatGuy89 wrote:oh im loving these terran tears any terran player who thinks that the nerf to snipe wasnt needed is a complete moron. Maybe they havent fixed it with what they've done, and maybe it'll highlight the broodlord/infestror mix which is so strong, but for now just live with it. I dont think the phoenix change is going to have much of an effect. Anyone rushing to pheonix + fleet becon to get the extra range is just gonna be swamped by mass mass lings/roach/hydra. Might be good late game, but they'll still be useless vs corruptors and not many zerg have mutas late game vs toss EDIT: Have people seen what mass raven can do vs broodlord? I first saw demuslim do it to ret in a practice game and then i saw it happen in some tournament, think it was a smaller one that khaldor was casting. Its so effective its crazy
Have you even read the thread? The issue isn't specifically the nerfs themselves (though one could argue that the way they went about the snipe nerf is a little odd, even if it was needed). The issue is they are releasing it before a major tournament, not giving the players any real time to practice it and explore new strategies with the changes. You think someone is really going to try a strategy they've never given any real time to when their tournament life is on the line?
No the problem here isn't the nerf, it's the timing of it's implementation. But hey, why discuss the topic at hand when you can gloat when the race you don't play gets a nerf and call people morons?
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On February 18 2012 21:55 L3g3nd_ wrote:
as a player from SEA this is frustrating. I prefer to ladder on NA as the skill level is much higher, but i have SEACL and SEACC to play in the week the patches are diffferent.. so annoying
install another copy, play on both servers
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On February 18 2012 15:09 Clefairy wrote:
Genius is the next GSL champion.
DRG says hi
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EPT
