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iAmiAnC
United Kingdom317 Posts
On April 01 2012 21:48 S_SienZ wrote: That argument won't hold as it is possible for the streamer to listen to music while only making game sounds broadcasted to the audience. Not very easily possible from my time spent looking into it... | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On April 01 2012 21:40 iAmiAnC wrote: So with that in mind, have there been examples of the bigger streamers having their channel suspended for 24 hours due to a DMCA claim? Kas blasts out top 40 music (/w no commentary) from a radio station every time he plays, CatZ and IdrA also spring to mind. It seems a bit strange to me for a ~100k total view channel to fall foul of this after streaming for a few weeks when 10000 people listen to IdrA streaming out music on a regular basis (even some more mainstream stuff lately!). Nearly every Korean streamer is playing current Korean pop music 24/7 when they stream too. To be frank, luck. The current system is based on the copyright holder giving Twitch a take down notice. They obviously don't consider gaming streams to be worth constant monitoring. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On April 01 2012 21:53 iAmiAnC wrote: Not very easily possible from my time spent looking into it... Well that's not of much relevance to the copyright holder isn't it? Not to sound harsh, but personally I wouldn't risk it, since the whole music component is in no way even essential to the streaming process, I don't see any court not finding an infringement or finding infringements of this sort to fall under fair use defence. | ||
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Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
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Cereb
Denmark3388 Posts
Basically you had to have writting the lyrics, played the music, not borrowed anything from anyone (so basically no sampling) and you could not be signed to any record under which you produced the music. So technically even the artist is breaking the law if they upload their own music. And the list just went on and on... My point is, just enjoy what we've got right now. It's basically a luck game where you may or may not be punished for doing what you are doing. It goes from case to case with no real pattern or logic but if you go directly to the law you can pretty much get to anyone you want. | ||
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TheSir
1830 Posts
On April 01 2012 21:40 iAmiAnC wrote: So with that in mind, have there been examples of the bigger streamers having their channel suspended for 24 hours due to a DMCA claim? Kas blasts out top 40 music (/w no commentary) from a radio station every time he plays, CatZ and IdrA also spring to mind. It seems a bit strange to me for a ~100k total view channel to fall foul of this after streaming for a few weeks when 10000 people listen to IdrA streaming out music on a regular basis (even some more mainstream stuff lately!). Nearly every Korean streamer is playing current Korean pop music 24/7 when they stream too. Also to reiterate my previous question can any1 recommend some ways for preventing the music you're listening to from being streamed? Outside of having to pay for Virutal Audio Cable which I'm not really prepared to do right now. There are issues such as the picture and sound (ingame sound etc.) being out of sync and so on... buy a second soundcard, virtual soundcards are crap. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On April 01 2012 21:57 S_SienZ wrote: Well that's not of much relevance to the copyright holder isn't it? Not to sound harsh, but personally I wouldn't risk it, since the whole music component is in no way even essential to the streaming process, I don't see any court not finding an infringement or finding infringements of this sort to fall under fair use defence. The point is though, it doesn't really seem possible to listen to music in the computer while streaming. If we assume it indeed isn't possible, then you are arguing the same case as saying to the tech guy "you just simply shouldn't listen to music while answering calls", which doesn't hold, just like I'd assume it doesn't hold to say the same thing to a streamer. If at some point, the music is the focal point of your stream however(such as you go to the bathroom without putting on a replay or something similar), a different situation has arisen, that in the least would be a lot easier to argue was a copyright infringement. | ||
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iAmiAnC
United Kingdom317 Posts
On April 01 2012 22:04 TheSir wrote: buy a second soundcard, virtual soundcards are crap. Buy VAC, buy a second soundcard etc. etc. Its a stupidly involved process featuring splashing a bunch of cash and/or the use of multiple programs like VAC, Audio Repeater and the end result is often out of sync visual/audio on your stream. I already bought the music now I need a $50 program or superfluous sound card to listen to it while streaming? I guess the best option is to use an mp3 player or sit there in silence. Or perhaps to just not give a damn. It seems very unfortunate that the AoE stream ran into issues considering other big streamers have been doing equally flagrant copyright infringement to 20x the viewers for many months. I wonder if Kas streaming the music from internet radio is of any significance? I'm guessing it isn't and they just have to hear the music on the stream, regardless of the source? He's been very lucky in that case, listening to top40 radio stations 24/7. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On April 01 2012 22:04 Zarahtra wrote: The point is though, it doesn't really seem possible to listen to music in the computer while streaming. If we assume it indeed isn't possible, then you are arguing the same case as saying to the tech guy "you just simply shouldn't listen to music while answering calls", which doesn't hold, just like I'd assume it doesn't hold to say the same thing to a streamer. If at some point, the music is the focal point of your stream however(such as you go to the bathroom without putting on a replay or something similar), a different situation has arisen, that in the least would be a lot easier to argue was a copyright infringement. Actually if any claimant could establish that it constituted unauthorised communication of a substantial part of the work then they could say that to the tech support guy. Reasons why no one would / could do that: 1. Tech support calls are 1 to 1, a lot less severe and harder to detect compared to a public stream. 2. In the case of listening to music via speakers and answering the call via a phone and not PC, there's analogue drop-off, which is absent in cyberspace. Reason why copyright is now a mess post-digitisation is that everything transmitted by nature is a perfect copy. Whether or not the music is the focal point has never been even considered as far as I can remember, because frankly any defence lawyer would tell you it's a bad idea. | ||
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TheSir
1830 Posts
On April 01 2012 22:04 Zarahtra wrote: The point is though, it doesn't really seem possible to listen to music in the computer while streaming. If we assume it indeed isn't possible, then you are arguing the same case as saying to the tech guy "you just simply shouldn't listen to music while answering calls", which doesn't hold, just like I'd assume it doesn't hold to say the same thing to a streamer. If at some point, the music is the focal point of your stream however(such as you go to the bathroom without putting on a replay or something similar), a different situation has arisen, that in the least would be a lot easier to argue was a copyright infringement. S_SienZ is right, it doesn't matter if it's possible or not, it's illegal if you dont have the rights and btw sure it's possible to listen to music on a computer while streaming without streaming the music. All these excuses people make up dont make any sense. It's illegal to expose music if your not allowed to do so, simple as that. | ||
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-Kira
352 Posts
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Tanukki
Finland579 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On April 01 2012 21:27 DreaIVIS wrote: I will continue streaming for sure. But this is a huge injustice and the reaction from Twitch.tv is way over the top considering what I have done ( apparently playing copyrighted music in a stream hence a copyright infringement claim from Warner Bros ). Don't blame Twitch. It's what they're required to do by the DMCA. If they didn't, the entire site could be sued and shutdown. | ||
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DreaIVIS
Finland130 Posts
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
You can argue for it all you like (just like people argued for prohibition) or you can look at all the impartial evidence that shows the harm it actually does in all industries. But at the end of the day any consumer actually putting arguments forward to protect these things is a fucking idiot that likes cutting off his own toes just to have a feeling of smugness. It is one thing to discuss things in theory it is another to discuss them publicaly. They will do EVERYTHING they can to make more money, their opponents (consumers) should be doing the same - thats how the legal system works and that is how they are choosing to stop people getting media through their desired channels rather than legitamise and profit from them. Lets us get one thing straight ... the actual content creators are the ones who deserve money. However they are blocked from creating their own mechanisms once they are signed with one of these agencies / middle men. | ||
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TheSir
1830 Posts
On April 02 2012 00:18 DreaIVIS wrote: I assume that they are required to stop the broadcasting of copyrighted material. I believe that this can be done with a warning first, temporary ban after that and naturally removing the content with copyrighted materila, not a straight out removing of your stream without a warning. The mistake was made by me, I don't blame Twitch.tv about that, I carry my responsibility, but I feel that it's a huge injustice that they are removing stream without a warning and thousands of high profile players are streaming copyrighted material all the time. If you can't be egual to all, then don't enforce stuff like this. You shouldn't look to anyone expect yourself, it doesn't matter what other streamers do. And it's not huge injustice that they removed your content without a warning, you should have known that it could happen and they are required to do so when requested. As you say you carry your own responsibility. | ||
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
What kind of effect do you want this post to have? Do you want all streams to stop using music if it is illegal? BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN. THINK FFS If i worked at twitch / owned and read this and was in a position of responsibility then my hand would probably be forced. As an issue i had turned a blind eye to is now in my face and legally i have to take action or be negligent / liable. Its like working somewhere and people rolling in 10 mins late. You have a choice, do you ask you boss if its allowed or do you just follow suit? If you ask the question you really are being a dick who doesn't get how the world works and you will have a big problem making friends there. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On April 02 2012 00:51 MrTortoise wrote: can i just say that OP is totally irresponsible for posting this. What kind of effect do you want this post to have? Do you want all streams to stop using music if it is illegal? BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN. THINK FFS If i worked at twitch / owned and read this and was in a position of responsibility then my hand would probably be forced. As an issue i had turned a blind eye to is now in my face and legally i have to take action or be negligent / liable. Nope. Twitch doesn't have any obligation until a copyright holder gives notice about which specific user is committing infringement of a work they hold. Mere general assertions that infringements are happening within their system will not suffice. | ||
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DreaIVIS
Finland130 Posts
And I should have known that they can remove my stream entirely without a warning from playing a one song? Give me a break. The more you write it gives just an impression of a troll with the ultimatum's little bit of truth mixed in. | ||
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tsuxiit
1305 Posts
On February 13 2012 10:12 SarkON wrote: Well well, I think soon we might see soundless streams in this case  Which is good, because I'm all in favor of copyright protection.Are you a plant? | ||
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