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Active: 13817 users

Music copyright issue. Are streamers immune to it? - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Apolo
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal1259 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-01 11:22:19
April 01 2012 11:18 GMT
#221
If you guys get your content blocked because of copyright violation, just post on your blog the company/discography, and the song and never play anything from them on stream again until they change policy. Not only their music won't be publicized and heard by thousands of people because of your stream, but you'll put out in the open their bad policy.

Just don't be quiet and accept it. Back when people weren't interconnected companies could do whatever bad service they wanted because the bad words spread very slowly or not at all because good publicity by media would silence it. These days a single post on a blog can get a lot of attention, and this kind of power to spread the word the user has is something companies have to take in consideration if they don't want the internet to form a negative opinion about them and ruin their image.
KrsOne
Profile Joined March 2011
United States64 Posts
April 01 2012 11:48 GMT
#222
Is no one in the music industry for the love of it? I for one would be happy to know people were enjoying my music.
Life is to short so love the one you got, cause you might get run over or you might get shot-Sublime
S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
April 01 2012 11:56 GMT
#223
On April 01 2012 20:48 KrsOne wrote:
Is no one in the music industry for the love of it? I for one would be happy to know people were enjoying my music.


It's the record label who sue (normally), not the artist.
Zocat
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2229 Posts
April 01 2012 11:57 GMT
#224
On April 01 2012 19:09 hifriend wrote:
Streaming blizzard content in itself is probably ground for copyright infringement, no? Fortunately it's not really worth going after, and the notion of individual streamers paying royalties for music is completely unrealistic.


http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/legal/videopolicy.html
OsoVega
Profile Joined December 2010
926 Posts
April 01 2012 11:59 GMT
#225
The DMCA is an excellent piece of legislation and people should go by it.
Fyrewolf
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1533 Posts
April 01 2012 12:00 GMT
#226
On April 01 2012 20:48 KrsOne wrote:
Is no one in the music industry for the love of it? I for one would be happy to know people were enjoying my music.


I enjoy your music. I still pop in the Keep Right cd you gave me at a concert for free, that was awesome. Thank you.
"This is not Warcraft in space" "It's much more...... Sophisticated" "I KNOW IT'S NOT 3D!!!"
KrsOne
Profile Joined March 2011
United States64 Posts
April 01 2012 12:02 GMT
#227
On April 01 2012 21:00 Fyrewolf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2012 20:48 KrsOne wrote:
Is no one in the music industry for the love of it? I for one would be happy to know people were enjoying my music.


I enjoy your music. I still pop in the Keep Right cd you gave me at a concert for free, that was awesome. Thank you.

Dig it
Life is to short so love the one you got, cause you might get run over or you might get shot-Sublime
LJ
Profile Joined January 2012
203 Posts
April 01 2012 12:03 GMT
#228
It's copyright infringement but I don't think anyone would care because it is certainly not the focal point of any of the streams and they are not profiting from the music. This sort has thing has been going on since way before the internet existed
TheSir
Profile Joined February 2012
1830 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-01 12:14:43
April 01 2012 12:12 GMT
#229
On April 01 2012 19:50 RoyAlex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2012 19:35 Charon1979 wrote:
And the third parties get so forgotten because nobody cares about bob the music artist, only nada the progamer and twitch the supporing Esports company.


you are right... everytime i am forced to hear a lady gaga song I take a deep breath and mourn her for having to live in utter poverty

Tbh most of the time I hate the music on streams. So you actually want me to pay for music i dont want to hear?
I just want to see NaDa the Progamer. I dont care about Bob the Artist because i dont like his music at all. But im forced to hear it if i want to hear the commentary.


You don't need to pay anything, but Twitch.tv does, if they want streamers to also stream music.
And again we are not talking about Gaga, but Bob. One of artists that does not belong in the top 1% which recives an ridiculous amount of money, but rather lives in the middle range and actually will severely notice if the paycheck don't come in this month.


There are no licenses that allow your users to stream copyrighted material. Each streamer who wants to stream copyrighted music needs a license of his own, Twitch cant do anything about that.
DreaIVIS
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland130 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-01 12:17:25
April 01 2012 12:17 GMT
#230
On April 01 2012 21:03 LJ wrote:
It's copyright infringement but I don't think anyone would care because it is certainly not the focal point of any of the streams and they are not profiting from the music. This sort has thing has been going on since way before the internet existed


They removed my stream yesterday entirely without further notice. It's kind of scary that they can actually remove a stream just by request and the burden of proof that I wasn't playing copyrighted material is on the streamer. I would have to send signed letters to U.S if I believe that my stream was taken down by error. Not to mention that they don't tell me that what the copyrighted material was. I have no possibility to defend myself here before they remove the stream. I lost all my followers and views, not to mention the VOD's.
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
April 01 2012 12:20 GMT
#231
On April 01 2012 21:17 DreaIVIS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2012 21:03 LJ wrote:
It's copyright infringement but I don't think anyone would care because it is certainly not the focal point of any of the streams and they are not profiting from the music. This sort has thing has been going on since way before the internet existed


They removed my stream yesterday entirely without further notice. It's kind of scary that they can actually remove a stream just by request and the burden of proof that I wasn't playing copyrighted material is on the streamer. I would have to send signed letters to U.S if I believe that my stream was taken down by error. Not to mention that they don't tell me that what the copyrighted material was. I have no possibility to defend myself here before they remove the stream. I lost all my followers and views, not to mention the VOD's.


No more AOE? T_T
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
iAmiAnC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom317 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-01 12:28:01
April 01 2012 12:25 GMT
#232
On April 01 2012 21:17 DreaIVIS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2012 21:03 LJ wrote:
It's copyright infringement but I don't think anyone would care because it is certainly not the focal point of any of the streams and they are not profiting from the music. This sort has thing has been going on since way before the internet existed


They removed my stream yesterday entirely without further notice. It's kind of scary that they can actually remove a stream just by request and the burden of proof that I wasn't playing copyrighted material is on the streamer. I would have to send signed letters to U.S if I believe that my stream was taken down by error. Not to mention that they don't tell me that what the copyrighted material was. I have no possibility to defend myself here before they remove the stream. I lost all my followers and views, not to mention the VOD's.


What service, Twitch, own3d? Were you streaming music full volume all the time or just some music in the background while doing commentary? What type of music were you listening to, big names? Infact, do we even know its music related - rather than streaming Age of Empires related? I know Blizzard have very generous rules when it comes to streaming their games, and even generating revenue from them. Youtube, JustinTV etc. partnership schemes are specifically mentioned in their policy (as being OK) which is pretty considerate of them.

I'm also curious what it said in the message informing you that your stream had been removed, can you share any details? Thanks

Personally I listen to music while I play and when I'm streaming its audible (but heavily turned down) with commentary being about 3x louder than the music. I guess thats no good either. I don't really want to splash out on a program like VAC just to prevent my music being picked up on stream, does any1 have some unobtrusive alternatives (free)? I see plenty of big streamers just blasting out music 24/7 /w no commentary to thousands of viewers on a regular basis, is it just pot luck do we think?
http://www.twitch.tv/iamianc <- High master EU terran stream /w commentary!
juusoko
Profile Joined February 2011
Finland79 Posts
April 01 2012 12:27 GMT
#233
It's completely against copyright laws and any stream streaming copyrighted music could be taken out at any second. The only saving grace at the moment is that they are not worth going after from the label's point of view. The fuck they care, if Catz is singing their songs online. They rather focus on catching that guy who uploads a terabyte a month (or nowadays, ISPS that allow it).

This is bound to change at some point, if esports keeps growing though. Even now individual player's streams are getting 10 000 viewers and up at times. It is also a fact that playing nice music helps keep those viewers, which translates into cash. I think it's clear that players are profiting from this without paying royalties. The problem is that the licensing system for music is fucking idiotic and expensive, thus compromising and making a deal with a certain band (a la Day9) is the way to go, albeit limiting.
DreaIVIS
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland130 Posts
April 01 2012 12:27 GMT
#234
I will continue streaming for sure. But this is a huge injustice and the reaction from Twitch.tv is way over the top considering what I have done ( apparently playing copyrighted music in a stream hence a copyright infringement claim from Warner Bros ).
DreaIVIS
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland130 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-01 12:30:34
April 01 2012 12:29 GMT
#235
You can read the full messages and reasons from Twitch.tv here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324110&currentpage=9#163

All my questions have been answered with this e-mail:

Greetings,

When content is removed from the site due to DMCA takedown requests it is because we have gotten contact by the copyright holders and they have specifically requested that the content be taken down, due to them physically witnessing that their material had been infringed upon.

As far as our guidelines, you can find them here: http://www.justin.tv/user/dmca. If you have an account or see a channel that has been suspended due to copyright infringements, understand what we cannot restore accounts who have been banned in this method, unless it actually was a false takedown.

Regards,
Justin.tv Staff
TheSir
Profile Joined February 2012
1830 Posts
April 01 2012 12:31 GMT
#236
On April 01 2012 21:20 GinDo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2012 21:17 DreaIVIS wrote:
On April 01 2012 21:03 LJ wrote:
It's copyright infringement but I don't think anyone would care because it is certainly not the focal point of any of the streams and they are not profiting from the music. This sort has thing has been going on since way before the internet existed


They removed my stream yesterday entirely without further notice. It's kind of scary that they can actually remove a stream just by request and the burden of proof that I wasn't playing copyrighted material is on the streamer. I would have to send signed letters to U.S if I believe that my stream was taken down by error. Not to mention that they don't tell me that what the copyrighted material was. I have no possibility to defend myself here before they remove the stream. I lost all my followers and views, not to mention the VOD's.


No more AOE? T_T


It's not scary, it's the law. They have to do that when they receive a valid takedown request and it was probably genuine otherwise they wouldn't have done it.
And they told you why your channel was taken down (request by WB) so you should know if you showed/played copyrighted content from them or not. If you didn't then send a letter, if you did then you cant complain at all.
S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
April 01 2012 12:34 GMT
#237
Completely understandable that the VODs are not recoverable, since the audio component would constitute a copy of the copyrighted work, hence an infringement. Your case seems to be pretty straightforward tbh. People just have much lower expectations due to the laziness of certain copyright holders.
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
April 01 2012 12:39 GMT
#238
On February 13 2012 10:17 Resilient wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2012 10:12 Spieltor wrote:
the music they;re broadcasting is of low quality and mixed with game sounds, therefore it has no fidelity and as such can be considered as not breaching copyright due to it being completely inferior and unusable for other applications.


This is completely false and would never hold up if it ever came to court. Streaming copyrighted content is not legal, period. The only reason people still do it is because there is almost no rebuttal on streamers yet because as much as we hate to hear it, streaming and sc2 in general, are very small fish. Which, if given enough time, copyright enforcement WILL come after eventually.

Wasn't the point of fx SOPA, PIPA and all that to hit copyrighted stuff such as streams? I thought the streamers would be able to argue that they are listening to it themselves rather than actually broadcasting it. Similar to that I know if you are fx. in technical support and listening to music, the caller, even if he hears the music, you aren't broadcasting it and hence don't require to pay royalties.
iAmiAnC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom317 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-01 12:57:09
April 01 2012 12:40 GMT
#239
So with that in mind, have there been examples of the bigger streamers having their channel suspended for 24 hours due to a DMCA claim? Kas blasts out top 40 music (/w no commentary) from a radio station every time he plays, CatZ and IdrA also spring to mind. It seems a bit strange to me for a ~100k total view channel to fall foul of this after streaming for a few weeks when 10000 people listen to IdrA streaming out music on a regular basis (even some more mainstream stuff lately!). Nearly every Korean streamer is playing current Korean pop music 24/7 when they stream too.

Also to reiterate my previous question can any1 recommend some ways for preventing the music you're listening to from being streamed? Outside of having to pay for Virutal Audio Cable which I'm not really prepared to do right now. There are issues such as the picture and sound (ingame sound etc.) being out of sync and so on...
http://www.twitch.tv/iamianc <- High master EU terran stream /w commentary!
S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
April 01 2012 12:48 GMT
#240
On April 01 2012 21:39 Zarahtra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2012 10:17 Resilient wrote:
On February 13 2012 10:12 Spieltor wrote:
the music they;re broadcasting is of low quality and mixed with game sounds, therefore it has no fidelity and as such can be considered as not breaching copyright due to it being completely inferior and unusable for other applications.


This is completely false and would never hold up if it ever came to court. Streaming copyrighted content is not legal, period. The only reason people still do it is because there is almost no rebuttal on streamers yet because as much as we hate to hear it, streaming and sc2 in general, are very small fish. Which, if given enough time, copyright enforcement WILL come after eventually.

Wasn't the point of fx SOPA, PIPA and all that to hit copyrighted stuff such as streams? I thought the streamers would be able to argue that they are listening to it themselves rather than actually broadcasting it. Similar to that I know if you are fx. in technical support and listening to music, the caller, even if he hears the music, you aren't broadcasting it and hence don't require to pay royalties.


That argument won't hold as it is possible for the streamer to listen to music while only making game sounds broadcasted to the audience.
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