The maps pictured: cloud kingdom and korhal compound.
Summary: Out: Xel'naga Caverns and Arid Plateau In: Cloud Kingdom LE and Korhal Compound LE
Ohana is being tweaked and will be added to the map pool at a later date.
(p.s., props to blizzard for (eventually) adding tournament and community maps to the pool.)
EDIT 1: Cloud Kingdom LE and Korhal Compound LE is available on NA to play in custom games. They are not yet in the ladder rotation. Minor differences in the maps noted by TL folk below:
On February 10 2012 11:48 carbonaceous wrote: Cloud kingdom, eh?
Now, as I recall, there was a detailed thread not too long ago regarding annoying bunker placements XDDD
yep annoying bunker placements every map has tons of, but no one pointed them out before. If it would be a problem we would see it in the gls the second day the map was in the pool and a slayers terran played. ^^
Hopefully they finally take out XC, although I have had the map thumbs downed for the past few months anyway so its not really that big of a deal if they dont.
Great job Blizzard. We appreciate your implementation!
Now these will hopefully replace metalopolis and xel naga, but I hope Shakuras will go as well. I really wish they'd bring back the new desert oasis, that map was awesome.
On February 10 2012 11:56 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Not too long ago they finally eliminated close positions, now they're adding more tournament maps to the pool..
I think they're slowly getting it. Maybe a few months down the road, Daybreak will be in the pool finally :p
Yes, but good maps are able to have close position spawns and not have problems. It's a map design issue, not a balance one.
Aw too bad no daybreak or new GSL map (even if it were to replace tal'darim)
oh well, cloud kingdom i'm not too happy about, but that's simply cus im too lazy to learn that map lol, korhal looks simpler however and it has an easy look to it (not just strategically but visually) so yay :D
Are you kidding me? I get to play Cloud Kingdom on ladder? This shows at least that they're moving in the right direction with maps which is fucking fantastic. The only thing that can ruin this would be adding rocks on the third or something.
The only thing that makes me sad is no Daybreak. I'd love to see Daybreak either replacing Metal or Tal'Darim. They're old and not as fun as they used to be.
Well, that'd be awesome if Cloud Kingdom and Korhal got into the mappool. I really want to see Xel'Naga out of the map pool along with Shattered. If there's one thing I like about these new, short seasons is the fact that we can see a lot of variety with maps, so the game doesn't get as boring.
Korhal Compound seems very zerg favored. From the view of the map, it has 4-6 different paths to backstab Terran/Protoss players. Its also impossible for Protoss/Terran to take a 3rd.
Cloud Kingdom favors Protoss because Zerg can't take a fouth since it expands towards the center. Along with that, it has a lot of small chokes for forcefields which can destroy zerg counterattacks so easily.
This is just my first thoughts looking at the map. What do you guys think?
YYYYYYEEEEEEEAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WE'RE IN THERE~
Ladder s6 super sick. I'm so fucking hype, ladder maps were the "final solution" for us even when we were putting the original iCCup Mapmaking team (consisting of myself, konicki (now retired) and Protoss4Ever aka SUPEROUMAN) together under the almighty vision of Diamond almost two years ago now.
On February 10 2012 12:08 prodiG wrote: YYYYYYEEEEEEEAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WE'RE IN THERE~
Ladder s6 super sick. I'm so fucking hype, ladder maps were the "final solution" for us even when we were putting the original iCCup Mapmaking team (consisting of myself, konicki (now retired) and Protoss4Ever aka SUPEROUMAN) together almost two years ago now.
Oh I am psyched for this. As far as 2 player maps go, I enjoy Cloud Kingdom. It allows for a nice logical progression of expansions that, after the 3rd, get increasingly riskier, yet not ridiculously far away (like Tal'Darim).
On February 10 2012 12:08 prodiG wrote: YYYYYYEEEEEEEAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WE'RE IN THERE~
Ladder s6 super sick. I'm so fucking hype, ladder maps were the "final solution" for us even when we were putting the original iCCup Mapmaking team (consisting of myself, konicki (now retired) and Protoss4Ever aka SUPEROUMAN) together under the almighty vision of Diamond almost two years ago now.
We fucking did it. >: D!!!
Yea, congratulations prodiG. I know this has been a long deliberation with Blizzard and I've seen you all do your time advocating for this.
Haha, shit. I thought for a second Korhal was made by Blizzard since it was the only map I didn't recognize from the TLMC. I'm guessing they are replacing XNC and Arid Plateau since they're 2 player maps?
Follow the mapmakers on twitter! They tweet pics and spoilers about maps like this & more, as well as stream mapmaking from time to time on www.esvtv.com
Season 6 cannot come soon enough. As a single, I normally loathe February 14th, but the new map pool is going to be a great consolation prize when Season 6 starts on that day haha.
And it should be pretty awesome if Korhal Compound is unaltered by Browder Rocks, though the rumors of the Space Shark disappearing on Cloud Kingdom is a bit sad. We need a worthy successor to the Panda Bear Guy.
On February 10 2012 12:08 prodiG wrote: YYYYYYEEEEEEEAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WE'RE IN THERE~
Ladder s6 super sick. I'm so fucking hype, ladder maps were the "final solution" for us even when we were putting the original iCCup Mapmaking team (consisting of myself, konicki (now retired) and Protoss4Ever aka SUPEROUMAN) together under the almighty vision of Diamond almost two years ago now.
Now that us mapmakers have influence, time to make crazy shit like Monty Hall and Outsider, and force Blizzard to balance the game around the community's maps and not theirs!
This is awesome and a good sign for the future. Really Blizzard could retire in the map making department if they wanted to.. Just let the community make em for you!
On February 10 2012 12:08 prodiG wrote: YYYYYYEEEEEEEAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WE'RE IN THERE~
Ladder s6 super sick. I'm so fucking hype, ladder maps were the "final solution" for us even when we were putting the original iCCup Mapmaking team (consisting of myself, konicki (now retired) and Protoss4Ever aka SUPEROUMAN) together under the almighty vision of Diamond almost two years ago now.
We fucking did it. >: D!!!
As much as I like when the eSports machines plug TL, I like this even more - when TL helps people who deserve notice, get noticed. Open up some Bear Semen and sit back in your chair like a badass.
I'm so glad that the glimmer of hope shown when TDA LE was introduced has blossomed into more non-blizz maps on ladder! Here's to a long time of it continuing!
I know I'm going to sound like a major killjoy and all, and I know the space shark is really integral to the "spirit" of the ESV maps and team, but I actually 100% fully support their removal from the playing field. I've seen on the ESV weekly before that the spaceshark can be flying over a battlefield and could get in the way of micro by making it more difficult for a player to see and select his units. I just tested this on the original version of Cloud Kingdom, and it does block vision of units underneath.
This always seemed negative to me; that a non-essential part of the map could change gameplay. I'd personally prefer that the spaceshark remains in all ESV maps, but becomes a sort of "where's wally" thing where he's hidden on the texture of some structure on the map. That would make it a bit of fun, keeps the tradition of the space shark, and doesn't interfere with gameplay in any way.
But at the end of the day, it's not a huge matter.
Wow, this is so exciting, I'm so pumped! I'm sort of surprised that they chose Korhal Compound, but I guess it sort of retains a balance in the map pool, since it's a bit smaller... Really excited to play on both though, and to see which maps they remove, although I'm guessing arid and xel'naga
This might be too much to ask of Blizzard, but I would love to see bel'shir, metropolis, daybreak, and ohana added here :D (with XC, shattered, arid, removed)
oh my god, will i finally be able to veto shattered or taldarim when i don't feel like playing them instead of having to veto xelnaga and the 2 newp maps :O
Another larger step in moving towards a more vibrant and varied map pool. If we can eventually get to a MotW or month (or hell, even a guaranteed new map per season), that would be so sick. Huge props to the map making community!
I like the changes to blizzard but more importantly grats to the ESV map making team for 2 great maps that made it into the map pool. Your dedication and hard work really shows in these maps and now you're getting the recognition for it you deserve.
We would also like to recognize IronmanSC and the members of ESV and The Planetary Workshop (TPW) for their amazing work on Ohana, which took second place in the TeamLiquid map contest. We’re currently working with IronmanSC to help fix a few bugs while ensuring we retain the intent of the map, and once those are done we’ll be adding it to the pool for a future ladder season.
I'm so glad blizzard finally is incorporating community maps. Props to them and props to the mapmakers who were skilled enough to get their maps picked.
I hope they take out Xel'Naga and am okay with them taking out Arid. I would rather get rid of the older maps that are just boring to play on but oh well.
They'll never add Bel'Shir Beach. While it's a nice looking map we don't need another map that's broken for PvP (like Tal'Darim) due to the lack of a ramp.
I'd still like to see Daybreak and Metropolis but I guess four new maps would be a lot.
I'm not sure how I feel about Ohana. I don't really want to play on that map, but I guess if they change the way that you go from your natural to your third it could be better. Good to hear they're fixing it up a bit, maybe in the future it can be a better map, but right now I'd hate to play on that.
Now we just need to get some GSL maps up in this...
Just realized that Blizzard went from only adding 4 Player Maps (2 seasons ago?) to only adding 2 player maps. Then again, I guess there haven't been a lot of good 4 player maps coming out as of late.
Thank fucking god Xel'Naga is out, it's been a bad map (in comparison to the rest of the pool) for far too long. Noone played on Arid Plateau, either, I'm pretty sure. Cloud Kingdom is allright, and I've never played on the other one, but it looks OK, hoping it's a good map to play on.
I think the TL community should boycot the removal of the best feature of Cloud Kingdom, though; flying sharks.
OMG NICE!!!! I am SO happy for this, I was just talking to a friend yesterday about how they should add cloud kingdom to the ladder, this is freaking sick!!
On February 10 2012 13:22 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am baffled at the number of people saying, "I hope they take xel'naga out" when it very clearly says they are taking xel'naga out.
On February 10 2012 13:22 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am baffled at the number of people saying, "I hope they take xel'naga out" when it very clearly says they are taking xel'naga out.
At first the page was not working
Yes, at first. But I refuse to believe it took 15+ minutes to type "I hope they take arid/xel naga out"
I just confirmed: you can indeed now 3-pylon block the main ramp on Cloud Kingdom.
On February 10 2012 13:22 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am baffled at the number of people saying, "I hope they take xel'naga out" when it very clearly says they are taking xel'naga out.
When the thread was originally posted, there was no information on maps being taken out. That was a development during this thread's "life"
Looks like Cloud Kingdom, Korhal, Entombed, Antiga, and Shakuras for my maps. Since I'm P no way in heck I'm wasting time on TDA anymore with the chance of PvP, and the two community maps are pretty sweet
XelNaga is out? Holy shit, never thought I'd see the day. Im very happy that blizzard has finally taken this direction with the ladder map pool. And I thank kennigit for that interview with Justin Browder.
Wow this is going to be crazy. I am not sure which maps I will veto O_O. Its possible none who knows but thank god 2 custom maps is awesome more then I hoped, xelnaga is finally gone (fuck you xelnaga!) and that arid plataeu map never played on looked bad from the get go.
On February 10 2012 13:40 tpmraven wrote: i liked xel naga, it was a refreshing fast paced map.
Iget tired of 30 min macro games. I like to win with micro and unit control, not sim city, and unit production.
...refreshing after almost 18 months of use? I think you'll find that Korhal Compound is similar and both CK and KC being 2p maps let cheesy builds work a lot better
I still hope that they add at least 1 GSL map... but hey this is a major improvement, and a step in the right direction. Blizzard is listening to us... =)!
So the real question is...season 6 zerg map vetoes? I know I'm def vetoing antiga. I like Cloud Kingdom, played a few on it. Not sure at all about KC but don't like the looks of it. Shattered and metal are just so old, and TDA is just tiring to play on. Thoughts?
On February 10 2012 13:48 KimJongChill wrote: So the real question is...season 6 zerg map vetoes? I know I'm def vetoing antiga. I like Cloud Kingdom, played a few on it. Not sure at all about KC but don't like the looks of it. Shattered and metal are just so old, and TDA is just tiring to play on. Thoughts?
I think KC is a map where Z>T and Z=P, I wouldn't veto it
Wow, seriously couldn't be happier with this map pool. Xel Naga and Arid were my two vetos (tough for TvP). Love entombed actually. Just downloaded and played some AI games on cloud kingdom and I love the layout and design.
WTG Blizzard.
Also... Daybreak is a very cool map for tourneys, but I am kind of glad it isn't in the ladder pool. With its layout I feel like that is alot of 40 minute TvT's waiting to happen for me... and I'm not sure I have the stomach for that :p
Why do they always take good maps and make retarded changes to them? No neutral depot? The fuck? Didn't we already prove that we need those to make maps not play like crap? Hopefully we can drone drill at every starting position at least.
Why wont blizzard keep the neutral depots at the bottom of ramps? Bunker/pylon cheese is so lame and no way to know its coming so you just have to either risk it happening or always have a drone patrol the ramp... =\
Also, I wonder why they changed the area behind the natural minerals. Is it just to make it look more standard? Or is it so it's harder to hide stuff back there (either you or your opponent). It could actually help things such as bunker rush and sneaky canons since it's smaller and therefore easier to wall off right? xD
On February 10 2012 14:13 Mario1209 wrote: the removed our fly shark T_T
WHAT! why
TBH, it was sort of a distraction in game. We would've preferred it stay in but considering what sort of audience Blizz has to appeal to, it's an understandable choice.
On February 10 2012 14:13 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: wait theyr'e gonna put in ohana too? nice!
I think I like the wider natural for korhal
Also, I wonder why they changed the area behind the natural minerals. Is it just to make it look more standard? Or is it so it's harder to hide stuff back there (either you or your opponent). It could actually help things such as bunker rush and sneaky canons since it's smaller and therefore easier to wall off right? xD
I like the wider natural too actually, except they didn't fix the textures on any of the cliff adjustments they made so it looks really off now in a lot of places haha!
I believe the area behind the natural was changed to be more congruent with the other current ladder maps, as you said. But yes, it will be slightly easier to bunker rush and cannon rush. There is also less room to defend drops, like placing turrets or just getting a ling surround.
Maps that don’t make the cut will be replaced by maps that meet the standards set by major tournaments all around the globe.
NICE!
Also, I'm sad that BOTH xel'naga and arid are being removed T_T. I don't really like to play on neither one, but they're good for mech! fuck xD
Arid, though perhaps imbalanced, as an interesting and unique map. I liked how you have 3 different decently reasonable thirds to choose from.
Maybe though it is just some simple things that make it imba (like the natural?) and they could fix them later and put it back into ladder? (note they say retire the map for season 6 lol)
On February 10 2012 14:10 TheRabidDeer wrote: Why wont blizzard keep the neutral depots at the bottom of ramps? Bunker/pylon cheese is so lame and no way to know its coming so you just have to either risk it happening or always have a drone patrol the ramp... =\
The ramps take an unreasonable number of pylons/bunkers (e.g., 3 bunkers on korhal) so that this shouldn't be a problem in practice.
I really like blizzard putting maps like this in the rotation, but Antiga and Entombed need to mirror the GSL in terms of starting locations(and gold base) and I would really like to see Shatterd go asap.
Is the maker of cloud kingdom getting any sort of compensation for this? his map is being used around the world at the highest leagues, but this map was interdependently made by a specific individual, who i think deserves A LOT of credit s/he might not be receiving, is this bothering anyone else?
On February 10 2012 14:25 TheNessman wrote: Is the maker of cloud kingdom getting any sort of compensation for this? his map is being used around the world at the highest leagues, but this map was interdependently made by a specific individual, who i think deserves A LOT of credit s/he might not be receiving, is this bothering anyone else?
Protoss4ever has been making maps since the BW days. Back then, we could only dream of getting maps into professional leagues. The fact that it's in the ladder itself is great for us. But at the same time, a little extra incentive wouldn't hurt =).
On February 10 2012 14:25 TheNessman wrote: Is the maker of cloud kingdom getting any sort of compensation for this? his map is being used around the world at the highest leagues, but this map was interdependently made by a specific individual, who i think deserves A LOT of credit s/he might not be receiving, is this bothering anyone else?
I'm sure that before posting it to the Ladder, they had a long chat with ESV n'at. Money is not the only reward for map creating, but it could have been; if it was, I don't think anyone would disclose it.
I don't even know which tournament I should have watched / be watching to see Khorhal Compound.
My late game against all races is awful so personally I'm having a minor QQ about the two smallest maps being removed but I guess it just forces me to play better. And well, since two great maps for Terran are being removed maybe it means there'll be some patches to balance things out a bit.
rly like the quote: We would also like to recognize IronmanSC and the members of ESV and The Planetary Workshop (TPW) for their amazing work on Ohana, which took second place in the TeamLiquid map contest. We’re currently working with IronmanSC to help fix a few bugs while ensuring we retain the intent of the map, and once those are done we’ll be adding it to the pool for a future ladder season.
We will continue to change the map lineup on the StarCraft II ladder over time, and we’ll also maintain our focus on tournament-viable maps to ensure the fiercest competition. Maps that don’t make the cut will be replaced by maps that meet the standards set by major tournaments all around the globe.
XNC and Arid out = Yay! "We experimented with Arid, and it didn't really work" = Yay! Both for experimenting and for being quick to admit it wasn't great. "We'll maintain our focus on Tournament-viable maps" = Yay! Cloud Kingdom and Korhal Compound in = YAY!! Ladder Editions = .... That don't involve adding rocks = YAY! Ohana in future map pool = Yay!
There's really nothing about this that isn't awesome (except maybe Shattered staying in the pool, but I have a free downvote now since Arid's gone)
On February 10 2012 13:22 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am baffled at the number of people saying, "I hope they take xel'naga out" when it very clearly says they are taking xel'naga out.
When the thread was originally posted, there was no information on maps being taken out. That was a development during this thread's "life"
Not sure what this means, what does 3-pylon block do? Do you mean 3-pylon block the top or bottom of the ramp?
I'd love to thank Blizzard for being more open-minded when it comes to maps and not forcing their own stuff on us. Round of applause. Also, thanks to the people who made the maps being included in Season 6, along with all the other community maps.
On February 10 2012 13:27 SgtCoDFish wrote: I just confirmed: you can indeed now 3-pylon block the main ramp on Cloud Kingdom.
On February 10 2012 13:22 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am baffled at the number of people saying, "I hope they take xel'naga out" when it very clearly says they are taking xel'naga out.
When the thread was originally posted, there was no information on maps being taken out. That was a development during this thread's "life"
Not sure what this means, what does 3-pylon block do? Do you mean 3-pylon block the top or bottom of the ramp?
3 pylon block on ramp so if you don't have a drone to block it protoss gets a free win as long as they look for proxy hatches in their base and don't let nydus worms in.
On February 10 2012 13:27 SgtCoDFish wrote: I just confirmed: you can indeed now 3-pylon block the main ramp on Cloud Kingdom.
On February 10 2012 13:22 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am baffled at the number of people saying, "I hope they take xel'naga out" when it very clearly says they are taking xel'naga out.
When the thread was originally posted, there was no information on maps being taken out. That was a development during this thread's "life"
Not sure what this means, what does 3-pylon block do? Do you mean 3-pylon block the top or bottom of the ramp?
3 pylon block on ramp so if you don't have a drone to block it protoss gets a free win as long as they look for proxy hatches in their base and don't let nydus worms in.
I dont' quite understand your sentence. You cannot put a pylon on a ramp as i'm aware. and by drone do you mean probe?
On February 10 2012 13:27 SgtCoDFish wrote: I just confirmed: you can indeed now 3-pylon block the main ramp on Cloud Kingdom.
On February 10 2012 13:22 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am baffled at the number of people saying, "I hope they take xel'naga out" when it very clearly says they are taking xel'naga out.
When the thread was originally posted, there was no information on maps being taken out. That was a development during this thread's "life"
Not sure what this means, what does 3-pylon block do? Do you mean 3-pylon block the top or bottom of the ramp?
3 pylon block on ramp so if you don't have a drone to block it protoss gets a free win as long as they look for proxy hatches in their base and don't let nydus worms in.
I dont' quite understand your sentence. You cannot put a pylon on a ramp as i'm aware. and by drone do you mean probe?
You can put a pylon because the neutral supply depo is gone. I haven't tested but that is what that guy is saying. And no drone to block the 3 pylons from blocking the ramp.
On February 10 2012 14:10 TheRabidDeer wrote: Why wont blizzard keep the neutral depots at the bottom of ramps? Bunker/pylon cheese is so lame and no way to know its coming so you just have to either risk it happening or always have a drone patrol the ramp... =\
Send your second overlord to patrol around the ramp/natural area.
Glad they removed Xel'naga Caverns and Arid Plateau. Those were just horrible maps. I'm a bit sad to not see that Daybreak didn't make the cut, but I'm happy with the additions of Cloud Kingdom LE and Korhal Compound LE. Hopefully this will be the most fun season yet, as I really like the map pool of this season than any others.
On February 10 2012 14:10 TheRabidDeer wrote: Why wont blizzard keep the neutral depots at the bottom of ramps? Bunker/pylon cheese is so lame and no way to know its coming so you just have to either risk it happening or always have a drone patrol the ramp... =\
Send your second overlord to patrol around the ramp/natural area.
that doesn't help when they block off your ramp entirely. all that overlord does is report back to you that you're royally fucked
On February 10 2012 13:27 SgtCoDFish wrote: I just confirmed: you can indeed now 3-pylon block the main ramp on Cloud Kingdom.
On February 10 2012 13:22 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am baffled at the number of people saying, "I hope they take xel'naga out" when it very clearly says they are taking xel'naga out.
When the thread was originally posted, there was no information on maps being taken out. That was a development during this thread's "life"
Not sure what this means, what does 3-pylon block do? Do you mean 3-pylon block the top or bottom of the ramp?
3 pylon block on ramp so if you don't have a drone to block it protoss gets a free win as long as they look for proxy hatches in their base and don't let nydus worms in.
I dont' quite understand your sentence. You cannot put a pylon on a ramp as i'm aware. and by drone do you mean probe?
You put 3 pylons that wall off the bottom of the ramp completely so units can't get out. This is done early enough in the game when there aren't even lings out; only drones for the zerg player. Cannons can be place behind said pylons and the protoss player can do whatever they want at that point as long as they ensure there isn't a proxy hatch in their base. The only other real way for a zerg to win at this point is to rush lair and use 1 base nydus play that catches the toss with their pants down. It's extremely hard cheese to prevent because you have to use a drone to block the ramp. The depot served this purpose before but in the LE map, it's gone.
Super good news, love those maps! Thx Blizzard!!! And a big congrats to the teams for getting the recognition you deserved, keep up the amazing work guys!
On February 10 2012 14:10 TheRabidDeer wrote: Why wont blizzard keep the neutral depots at the bottom of ramps? Bunker/pylon cheese is so lame and no way to know its coming so you just have to either risk it happening or always have a drone patrol the ramp... =\
Send your second overlord to patrol around the ramp/natural area.
that doesn't help when they block off your ramp entirely. all that overlord does is report back to you that you're royally fucked
When you see the pylon start going up, take a few drones and use this tactic.
If you can react before the 3rd pylon is built it's really great, the scouting overlord really helps. However, get it away once you scout it, as the cannon will focus the ovie first, keep making drones until the first cannon is killed. If he kills more cannons... DO NOT RUSH TO POOL. Keep making drones, you can deal with cannon rush with just drones. By the time he gives up to get more gateway units, you'll have a way better economy.
Also this isn't really the thread for this discussion but I just thought I would help.
On February 10 2012 14:10 TheRabidDeer wrote: Why wont blizzard keep the neutral depots at the bottom of ramps? Bunker/pylon cheese is so lame and no way to know its coming so you just have to either risk it happening or always have a drone patrol the ramp... =\
Send your second overlord to patrol around the ramp/natural area.
that doesn't help when they block off your ramp entirely. all that overlord does is report back to you that you're royally fucked
If you can react before the 3rd pylon is built it's really great, the scouting overlord really helps. However, get it away once you scout it, as the cannon will focus the ovie first, keep making drones until the first cannon is killed. If he kills more cannons... DO NOT RUSH TO POOL. Keep making drones, you can deal with cannon rush with just drones. By the time he gives up to get more gateway units, you'll have a way better economy.
Also this isn't really the thread for this discussion but I just thought I would help.
Yeah, most people know about that but it only works on some maps in some positions. I haven't tested it on cloud kingdom or korhal yet, but it doesn't work on a fair amount of the current ladder maps.
On February 10 2012 14:10 TheRabidDeer wrote: Why wont blizzard keep the neutral depots at the bottom of ramps? Bunker/pylon cheese is so lame and no way to know its coming so you just have to either risk it happening or always have a drone patrol the ramp... =\
Send your second overlord to patrol around the ramp/natural area.
that doesn't help when they block off your ramp entirely. all that overlord does is report back to you that you're royally fucked
If you can react before the 3rd pylon is built it's really great, the scouting overlord really helps. However, get it away once you scout it, as the cannon will focus the ovie first, keep making drones until the first cannon is killed. If he kills more cannons... DO NOT RUSH TO POOL. Keep making drones, you can deal with cannon rush with just drones. By the time he gives up to get more gateway units, you'll have a way better economy.
Also this isn't really the thread for this discussion but I just thought I would help.
Yeah, most people know about that but it only works on some maps in some positions. I haven't tested it on cloud kingdom or korhal yet, but it doesn't work on a fair amount of the current ladder maps.
On February 10 2012 14:10 TheRabidDeer wrote: Why wont blizzard keep the neutral depots at the bottom of ramps? Bunker/pylon cheese is so lame and no way to know its coming so you just have to either risk it happening or always have a drone patrol the ramp... =\
Send your second overlord to patrol around the ramp/natural area.
that doesn't help when they block off your ramp entirely. all that overlord does is report back to you that you're royally fucked
If you can react before the 3rd pylon is built it's really great, the scouting overlord really helps. However, get it away once you scout it, as the cannon will focus the ovie first, keep making drones until the first cannon is killed. If he kills more cannons... DO NOT RUSH TO POOL. Keep making drones, you can deal with cannon rush with just drones. By the time he gives up to get more gateway units, you'll have a way better economy.
Also this isn't really the thread for this discussion but I just thought I would help.
Yeah, most people know about that but it only works on some maps in some positions. I haven't tested it on cloud kingdom or korhal yet, but it doesn't work on a fair amount of the current ladder maps.
you can also fairly easily reinforce the wall
Or you can just patrol a drone at the bottom of the ramp, even if you just hold position it in the location a Pylon would go you can stop them from making all three pylons and thus blocking your ramp.
Hi guys, I want to clear a few things up regarding Ohana. I've seen a couple people here who seem to think that Ohana is the same one from the Teamliquid Map Contest. This is incorrect.
The current version of Ohana (as used in the ESV Korean Weekly and NASL) is this: + Show Spoiler +
But, as Blizzard mentioned, they and I are working to fix some things before it is revealed in ladder soon, so you can expect the layout to remain the same, with aesthetic updates
Just wanted to get everyone on the right page regarding Ohana! GOGO ESV!!!!
The blog post that Blizzard made really ties in to their push for better support for esports. The fact that they've removed Arid Plateau very quickly is a good show to those who treat ladder as a real practice ground.
The problem previously (and I'm sure it's been mentioned) is that many players veto maps based on race (Zergs veto XC, Protoss veto TA, etc) and so when you climb onto the ladder the odds are that you'll play more mirror matchups than anything else. Which only provides a limited amount of fun.
Props to Blizzard for these changes, I hope that the map pool continues to improve, and I sincerely hope that they use more community maps: there are so many excellent underrated maps out there. Plus Blizzard's naming sucks, I want maps to be called something fancy like La Mancha or Outlier or Sin Peaks of Baekdu. Cloud Kingdom is certainly much more fun to say.
On February 10 2012 15:42 IronManSC wrote: Hi guys, I want to clear a few things up regarding Ohana. I've seen a couple people here who seem to think that Ohana is the same one from the Teamliquid Map Contest. This is incorrect.
The current version of Ohana (as used in the ESV Korean Weekly and NASL) is this: + Show Spoiler +
But, as Blizzard mentioned, they and I are working to fix some things before it is revealed in ladder soon, so you can expect the layout to remain the same, with aesthetic updates
Just wanted to get everyone on the right page regarding Ohana! GOGO ESV!!!!
That kinda resembles Bel'Shir Beach, which is one of the prettiest maps ever.
Also the new maps are welcome, they look gorgeous and balanced, whatever that means to whoever is assessing it
props to blizzard. People complain of Blizz not listening to the community, unfairly imo. Their map changes have been pretty solid for the last few seasons. And the big stuff - BNet, etc - is stuff they can't do in a patch/season update anyway. Anyway, gj to blizzard
On February 10 2012 15:51 SeinGalton wrote: Yes! At long last we have a decent map pool!
The problem previously (and I'm sure it's been mentioned) is that many players veto maps based on race (Zergs veto XC, Protoss veto TA, etc) and so when you climb onto the ladder the odds are that you'll play more mirror matchups than anything else. Which only provides a limited amount of fun.
Props to Blizzard for these changes, I hope that the map pool continues to improve, and I sincerely hope that they use more community maps: there are so many excellent underrated maps out there. Plus Blizzard's naming sucks, I want maps to be called something fancy like La Mancha or Outlier or Sin Peaks of Baekdu. Cloud Kingdom is certainly much more fun to say.
Long story short, map vetos are one of the last things used, the match is picked before vetos are even considered.
It's very nice to get Cloud Kingdom, honestly Blizzard should just do everyone(especially aspiring progamers) a favor and only have tournament maps, not the biggest ones if that's what they want. Arid Plateau and close position Shattered Temple/Metalopolis are terrible and just encourage allins time attacks especially from a best of 1 ladder point win perspective. It's not newbie friendly or fun and good for the learning the game, which were the initial intent of Blizzard for these medium/small map with close position spawns allowed.
This is why I like the 2 month seasons, quick map rotation. It was quickly recognized that Arid Plateau was abysmal, and now it's gone already.
Also, now that my year+ permaveto for Xel'Naga is gone I can finally veto Shattered Temple! I think my vetos for next season will be Metalopolis, Shattered Temple, and perhaps Shakuras or Entombed Valley, though I might just only use two vetos. I'm excited for Cloud Kingdom on ladder, I've already played it a few times and it's a ton of fun.
On February 10 2012 14:10 TheRabidDeer wrote: Why wont blizzard keep the neutral depots at the bottom of ramps? Bunker/pylon cheese is so lame and no way to know its coming so you just have to either risk it happening or always have a drone patrol the ramp... =\
Send your second overlord to patrol around the ramp/natural area.
that doesn't help when they block off your ramp entirely. all that overlord does is report back to you that you're royally fucked
If you can react before the 3rd pylon is built it's really great, the scouting overlord really helps. However, get it away once you scout it, as the cannon will focus the ovie first, keep making drones until the first cannon is killed. If he kills more cannons... DO NOT RUSH TO POOL. Keep making drones, you can deal with cannon rush with just drones. By the time he gives up to get more gateway units, you'll have a way better economy.
Also this isn't really the thread for this discussion but I just thought I would help.
Yeah, most people know about that but it only works on some maps in some positions. I haven't tested it on cloud kingdom or korhal yet, but it doesn't work on a fair amount of the current ladder maps.
you can also fairly easily reinforce the wall
Or you can just patrol a drone at the bottom of the ramp, even if you just hold position it in the location a Pylon would go you can stop them from making all three pylons and thus blocking your ramp.
Sorry, I just think that it is retarded that zerg has to keep a drone at their ramp, a drone chasing the probe, and a drone scouting that early in the game just to prevent cheese. Just leave the depot there as intended and things are balanced. They dont need to be so stubborn with their game. First with rocks, then with gold minerals and now with removing depots. Listen to the community that knows what is up and leave things as they are when the map is made for tournament play.
On February 10 2012 15:51 SeinGalton wrote: Yes! At long last we have a decent map pool!
The problem previously (and I'm sure it's been mentioned) is that many players veto maps based on race (Zergs veto XC, Protoss veto TA, etc) and so when you climb onto the ladder the odds are that you'll play more mirror matchups than anything else. Which only provides a limited amount of fun.
Props to Blizzard for these changes, I hope that the map pool continues to improve, and I sincerely hope that they use more community maps: there are so many excellent underrated maps out there. Plus Blizzard's naming sucks, I want maps to be called something fancy like La Mancha or Outlier or Sin Peaks of Baekdu. Cloud Kingdom is certainly much more fun to say.
Long story short, map vetos are one of the last things used, the match is picked before vetos are even considered.
Ah, I didn't know that. Do you know of a specific reason for the large amount of mirror matches or is it just coincidence? (I don't ladder that often but myself and a few fellow zergs hit more ZvZ than anything else. Two friends of mine have both had ladder runs where they 8-10 ZvZ in a row, and against different players. Maybe it's just variance, maybe everyone is switching to Zerg for bitching rights )
On February 10 2012 14:25 TheNessman wrote: Is the maker of cloud kingdom getting any sort of compensation for this? his map is being used around the world at the highest leagues, but this map was interdependently made by a specific individual, who i think deserves A LOT of credit s/he might not be receiving, is this bothering anyone else?
Honestly, if the team keeps this up and Blizzard notices they keep producing amazing maps it could just happen Blizzard hires them in the future for Starcraft 2/other rts. If any of them have a desire to work in the digital arts entertainment then they can point to that map of their competence.
As a protoss player i feel like my 3 exp is really far away from my main, will be hard to defend, so protoss will probably do a lot of 2 base all in on this map.
On February 10 2012 16:44 namste wrote: Meh would've loved some of the well tested GSL maps such as Daybreak, but hey it's Blizzard, they can't make a proper decision.
Yes, Blizzard is totally not listening to the community and making the right decisions by removing xelnaga and arid, and adding cloud kingdom and korhal compound. Just because they arent adding daybreak means blizzard is bad, love your logic.
Personally, its nice to see Blizzard taking the right direction, atleast in regards with maps.
On February 10 2012 16:44 namste wrote: Meh would've loved some of the well tested GSL maps such as Daybreak, but hey it's Blizzard, they can't make a proper decision.
Yes, Blizzard is totally not listening to the community and making the right decisions by removing xelnaga and arid, and adding cloud kingdom and korhal compound. Just because they arent adding daybreak means blizzard is bad, love your logic.
Personally, its nice to see Blizzard taking the right direction, atleast in regards with maps.
yeah unfortunately they can't please everyone lol. Anyone who thinks this is bad in anyway or think its not a proper decision make me want to rage at them
ahh good news !! Cloud kingdom is quite nice, never played the other one. but daybreak is a must have for ladder. that map is so great. i think we might see it in the next season maybe :D
These are just great news... Both of the removed maps were vetoed from me , now i free up some space.. and also the new maps looks pretty darn interesting.. GJ blizz.
On February 10 2012 16:44 namste wrote: Meh would've loved some of the well tested GSL maps such as Daybreak, but hey it's Blizzard, they can't make a proper decision.
Yes, Blizzard is totally not listening to the community and making the right decisions by removing xelnaga and arid, and adding cloud kingdom and korhal compound. Just because they arent adding daybreak means blizzard is bad, love your logic.
Personally, its nice to see Blizzard taking the right direction, atleast in regards with maps.
yeah unfortunately they can't please everyone lol. Anyone who thinks this is bad in anyway or think its not a proper decision make me want to rage at them
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't asking for them to please everyone lol, just me! Just scared of TvP on CK, dat third is so easy to hold as a protoss :/
guess I know what maps to veto now. Cloud kingdom is a horrible map. Have no clue why they didn't put a good GSL map in there instead of Cloud Kingdom. I enjoyed Xel Naga though, even though its old, still was a solid map.
It's nice they put in community maps, but Cloud Kingdom is an abysmal map worthy of Blizzard. The third is impossible to take, clearly designed for Zergs only.
On February 10 2012 17:18 AnalThermometer wrote: It's nice they put in community maps, but Cloud Kingdom is an abysmal map worthy of Blizzard. The third is impossible to take, clearly designed for Zergs only.
On February 10 2012 17:18 AnalThermometer wrote: It's nice they put in community maps, but Cloud Kingdom is an abysmal map worthy of Blizzard. The third is impossible to take, clearly designed for Zergs only.
If you can't take a third on that map you're bad. Plain and simple. Protoss? Single forcefield at left ramp, have army placed between Nat and Third. Terran, couple of tanks at natural ramp, have army placed between Nat and Third.
to be honest, we should not be that thankful to blizzard for this "grateful concession".
This is something we should expect, this is something we should demand and recieve. This is something you would expect from paying 60 bucks.
Furthermore, we should demand even more, like content patches for b.net etc.
To be fair, it should be known that blizzard is doing a better job at map pool compared to wc3 (good lord turtle rock/twisted meadows 24/7 was bad), but this should not cloud our judgement as consumers and players from demanding more.
I'm not hating or anything, I'm just saying, this is something we should take for granted, and there's still a lot more stuff you would take for granted aswell, that's not being looked at atm.
Or maybe it's just my way of judging things, I'm the kind of person who doesn't say anything if everything goes south in a good way, but throws a tantrum if something bad happens.
Even if the map pool is better compared to earlier releases, much is still inferior and needs work/overhauls in other departments.
On February 10 2012 17:27 PlosionCornu wrote: to be honest, we should not be that thankful to blizzard for this "grateful concession".
This is something we should expect, this is something we should demand and recieve. This is something you would expect from paying 60 bucks.
Furthermore, we should demand even more, like content patches for b.net etc.
To be fair, it should be known that blizzard is doing a better job at map pool compared to wc3 (good lord turtle rock/twisted meadows 24/7 was bad), but this should not cloud our judgement as consumers and players to demand more.
I'm not hating or anything, I'm just saying, this is something we should take for granted, and there's still a lot more stuff you would take for granted aswell, that's not being looked at atm.
Or maybe it's just my way of judging things, I'm the kind of person who doesn't say anything if everything goes south in a good way, but throws a tantrum if something bad happens.
Even if the map pool is better compared to earlier releases, much is still inferior and needs work/overhauls in other departments.
i uh wha huh?
We "demanded" a change and they agreed with it and changed. It went with our opinion so we're grateful. Shouldn't we be happy that they are changing stuff since that gives hope for future fixes that we asked for?
BLIZZARD YOU DID WHAT WE WANTED FUUUUUCK YOU WORK FASTER!
Ok guys Ive been playing around in korhal. Somethings to note for the brotoss, if you wall ramp to nexus on top location it takes 2 gates, on bottom location its 2 gates plus one extra square. Also the bottom expo has a spot where you can block a cannon in with 2 pylons while the top only has 3 pylon blocks (which is funny as fuck because its the opposite in the esv version).
On February 10 2012 17:27 PlosionCornu wrote: to be honest, we should not be that thankful to blizzard for this "grateful concession".
This is something we should expect, this is something we should demand and recieve. This is something you would expect from paying 60 bucks.
Furthermore, we should demand even more, like content patches for b.net etc.
To be fair, it should be known that blizzard is doing a better job at map pool compared to wc3 (good lord turtle rock/twisted meadows 24/7 was bad), but this should not cloud our judgement as consumers and players to demand more.
I'm not hating or anything, I'm just saying, this is something we should take for granted, and there's still a lot more stuff you would take for granted aswell, that's not being looked at atm.
Or maybe it's just my way of judging things, I'm the kind of person who doesn't say anything if everything goes south in a good way, but throws a tantrum if something bad happens.
Even if the map pool is better compared to earlier releases, much is still inferior and needs work/overhauls in other departments.
i uh wha huh?
We "demanded" a change and they agreed with it and changed. It went with our opinion so we're grateful. Shouldn't we be happy that they are changing stuff since that gives hope for future fixes that we asked for?
BLIZZARD YOU DID WHAT WE WANTED FUUUUUCK YOU WORK FASTER!
I feel that Blizzard can be compared to the government of a country with minimal corruption.
You can tell that they have good intentions serving their people, though some of their initial thoughts are somewhat flawed or misguided. And a lot of good changes do happen, but only a good bit of time after they are demanded and have gone through a lengthy journey through a bloated bureaucracy. It may take at least half a year for them to get stuff done, but at least it eventually happens.
On February 10 2012 17:27 PlosionCornu wrote: to be honest, we should not be that thankful to blizzard for this "grateful concession".
This is something we should expect, this is something we should demand and recieve. This is something you would expect from paying 60 bucks.
Furthermore, we should demand even more, like content patches for b.net etc.
To be fair, it should be known that blizzard is doing a better job at map pool compared to wc3 (good lord turtle rock/twisted meadows 24/7 was bad), but this should not cloud our judgement as consumers and players to demand more.
I'm not hating or anything, I'm just saying, this is something we should take for granted, and there's still a lot more stuff you would take for granted aswell, that's not being looked at atm.
Or maybe it's just my way of judging things, I'm the kind of person who doesn't say anything if everything goes south in a good way, but throws a tantrum if something bad happens.
Even if the map pool is better compared to earlier releases, much is still inferior and needs work/overhauls in other departments.
i uh wha huh?
We "demanded" a change and they agreed with it and changed. It went with our opinion so we're grateful. Shouldn't we be happy that they are changing stuff since that gives hope for future fixes that we asked for?
BLIZZARD YOU DID WHAT WE WANTED FUUUUUCK YOU WORK FASTER!
Ofc people should be happy and merry and all.
As I said, maybe my post stems from the way I live and such, I tend to be less concerned to say "thank you" for something I paid for, and I expected to get. I'm much more concerned for something I was promised, and to this date hasn't been delivered yet.
Maybe I shoudl've conveyed this better, but it is an extremely subjective point of view. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, nor I want anyone to.
Of course, seeing things getting done does indeed stem hope for the future, I just feel, subjectively, that we should push the issue even more.
I just don't want them to rest on their laurels like they did with wow, they have grown too confident, and got struck hard with sub losses by delivering sub par content. Maybe that's what I fear.
Yes!! Awesome map choices by Blizzard! I was sick of having my vetos tied up in maps that have been around forever, and ones that almost no one liked. Especially Xel'naga, that map was seriously getting stale. Now hopefully the matchups will be more dynamic, I really want to see the race breakdowns for map vetoes, unlike the last few seasons where pretty much everyone had Xel'naga vetoed.
On February 10 2012 15:51 devPLEASE wrote: Thu need all the GSL maps. Like day break or bel shir beach etc
Haha, it kind of annoys me that rather than be happy that Blizzard is taking a step in the right direction and adding two very good maps (and in doing so also showing support to the map making community) most people are bitching that they’re not adding Daybreak. I get why people want Daybreak but Bel’shir Beach, really buddy? Just because a map features heavily in tournaments does not make it a good map (RE: Bel’Shir Beach, Dual Site).
This seems like a good step in the right direction from Blizzard. I'm a little bit more optimistic about the future with regard to the SC2 ladder map pools. I'll be really impressed if Blizzard can recruit some of these community map developers and pay them to churn out great maps!
Nice effort from Blizzard to go more into balanced community maps. Gratz to ESV map making team! And probs to TL to host the contest - it pays off in the long run! I'm also happy to loose two veto maps ^^
SICK SICK SICK!!! I had hoped so much for Cloud Kingdom. The other map looks cool too. 2 bad maps being removed, wow, this might actually trigger me to play a lot of 1v1, which i haven't done since season 2
On February 10 2012 17:18 AnalThermometer wrote: It's nice they put in community maps, but Cloud Kingdom is an abysmal map worthy of Blizzard. The third is impossible to take, clearly designed for Zergs only.
If you can't take a third on that map you're bad. Plain and simple. Protoss? Single forcefield at left ramp, have army placed between Nat and Third. Terran, couple of tanks at natural ramp, have army placed between Nat and Third.
Stop blaming 'balance' for why you're bad.
May be the case for lower leagues, but no. TvP is already unbalanced at 45% on this map, once players figure out its weaknesses people will start vetoing it more for the other matchups as well.
On February 10 2012 11:42 Kambing wrote: It looks like some TL open maps will be added to the S6 map pool. Summary: Out: Xel'naga Caverns and Arid Plateau In: Cloud Kingdom LE and Korhal Compound LE
Ohana is being tweaked and will be added to the map pool at a later date.
I don't usually like 2 player spawn maps.. but they're taking out the 2 maps I dislike most and adding "TL approved" maps?? That I'm good with!
Again step in the right direction but why does this progress so slowly? Still shattered, still taldarim and still meta 1-2 years after those maps came out. Ah well atleast some new and decent maps, and I guess now that xel naga and arid are out I can still use some more vetos :D
"In addition to this we are removing gold mineral patches and adjusting rock locations to be more fair to each race, we sincerely apologize for overlooking such a fundamental problem with the game for so long."
Upon rectifying such a mistake the entire Starcraft fan base erupted in glorious celebration. Browder's injustice was soon coming to an end and his regime falling beneath his very feet. Rumors began to surface that blizzard north was reforming to once again handle the starcraft series. Chance's rock hard boner quickly dissipated as the mornings dream began to vanish
On February 10 2012 18:25 Lorch wrote: Again step in the right direction but why does this progress so slowly? Still shattered, still taldarim and still meta 1-2 years after those maps came out. Ah well atleast some new and decent maps, and I guess now that xel naga and arid are out I can still use some more vetos :D
Tal Darim is amazing. It brings some much variety.. Meta can go. I think you gotta keep Shattered.. Thats Lost Temple bro.. That make lives forever.
On February 10 2012 18:25 Lorch wrote: Again step in the right direction but why does this progress so slowly? Still shattered, still taldarim and still meta 1-2 years after those maps came out. Ah well atleast some new and decent maps, and I guess now that xel naga and arid are out I can still use some more vetos :D
Tal Darim is amazing. It brings some much variety.. Meta can go. I think you gotta keep Shattered.. Thats Lost Temple bro.. That make lives forever.
I'm not hating on those maps, they are all great and I'm sure we have all played tons of epic games on all of those, but I just feel like you gotta keep the pool fresh and rotatting. Meta was in the beta almost 2 years ago and taldarim got introduced early 2011 so that's almost a year now aswell. Also Taldarim is broken for PvP and semi-broken ZvZ for the same reason. As for shattered well I guess Lost Temple has to stick around in every blizzard rts, doesn't it?^^
On February 10 2012 18:25 Lorch wrote: Again step in the right direction but why does this progress so slowly? Still shattered, still taldarim and still meta 1-2 years after those maps came out. Ah well atleast some new and decent maps, and I guess now that xel naga and arid are out I can still use some more vetos :D
Tal Darim is amazing. It brings some much variety.. Meta can go. I think you gotta keep Shattered.. Thats Lost Temple bro.. That make lives forever.
Tal'Darim is the worst map in the ladder pool. PvP on that map, enough said.
PvZ, TvZ and TvP isn't that much fun on that map either.
Too bad Blizzard didn't switch xel-naga for Daybreak, because Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak in the ladder would had been wickedddddddd sick.
On February 10 2012 18:25 Lorch wrote: Again step in the right direction but why does this progress so slowly? Still shattered, still taldarim and still meta 1-2 years after those maps came out. Ah well atleast some new and decent maps, and I guess now that xel naga and arid are out I can still use some more vetos :D
Tal Darim is amazing. It brings some much variety.. Meta can go. I think you gotta keep Shattered.. Thats Lost Temple bro.. That make lives forever.
What a convincing reason for shattered. Dont really know why this map is still alive. Boring because of one real attack way and stupid because of the way expansions work on this map
On February 10 2012 18:25 Lorch wrote: Again step in the right direction but why does this progress so slowly? Still shattered, still taldarim and still meta 1-2 years after those maps came out. Ah well atleast some new and decent maps, and I guess now that xel naga and arid are out I can still use some more vetos :D
Tal Darim is amazing. It brings some much variety.. Meta can go. I think you gotta keep Shattered.. Thats Lost Temple bro.. That make lives forever.
Tal'Darim is the worst map in the ladder pool. PvP on that map, enough said.
PvZ, TvZ and TvP isn't that much fun on that map either.
Too bad Blizzard didn't switch xel-naga for Daybreak, because Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak in the ladder would had been wickedddddddd sick.
You seem to forget that Tal'darim is the only map with a decent winratio for all 3 races. I agree its shit for PvP tho. But I love it for the other MUs
On February 10 2012 15:42 IronManSC wrote: But, as Blizzard mentioned, they and I are working to fix some things before it is revealed in ladder soon, so you can expect the layout to remain the same, with aesthetic updates
Just wanted to get everyone on the right page regarding Ohana! GOGO ESV!!!!
I like new waterfalls :D (50 people who watched ESV stream yesterday know what I'm talking about)
Congratulations to ESV team for being recognised by Blizzard!
I wish Haven's Lagoon got more attention, I voted for it in TLMC. But I also want some more GSL maps to the pool as well.
I'm really happy that these maps are going to ladder. Cloud Kingdom is awesome, and I like Ohana too (wish that too would be added, maybe to replace Shattered or something). Haven't tried Korhal yet, but I will give it a shot sometime.
hmmm it's weird I haven't played any of these maps at all, but you would think that they would add some of the more heavily professionally tested GSL maps.
A dream come true, THX Blizzard for making this decision! Some Great Maps in Ladder Pool now, and u really removed the two worst ones. It was time for Xel Naga to say goodbye. Was impossible to play a normal game on this map in higher leagues for Protoss cause Terran as well as Zerg were pretty much favored on this map. PvP was all about cheese there too so i guess Xel Naga was a Veto for about 95 % of the Protoss in the game.
On February 10 2012 18:25 Lorch wrote: Again step in the right direction but why does this progress so slowly? Still shattered, still taldarim and still meta 1-2 years after those maps came out. Ah well atleast some new and decent maps, and I guess now that xel naga and arid are out I can still use some more vetos :D
Tal Darim is amazing. It brings some much variety.. Meta can go. I think you gotta keep Shattered.. Thats Lost Temple bro.. That make lives forever.
Tal'Darim is the worst map in the ladder pool. PvP on that map, enough said.
PvZ, TvZ and TvP isn't that much fun on that map either.
Too bad Blizzard didn't switch xel-naga for Daybreak, because Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak in the ladder would had been wickedddddddd sick.
First time in a long while that I heard PvZ and TvZ isn't good on tal darim. Do agree that PvP is a 4gate fest on that map though
On February 10 2012 11:54 mtn wrote: Still no Daybreak? One of the best maps - balance wise...
Actually I find Daybreak to be kind of bad for terran.
i agree. it's pretty awful for terran especially in TvP late game when you're relying on a huge bioball in those tiny chokes versus storm... and in TvZ you have a similar problem with fungal.
actually, i don't think i've ever seen a terran win late game TvP on it.
the only thing terran can do on that map is spam like 12 planetary fortresses around the middle.
I don't know why people keep mentioning Bel'Shir Beach. That map is horrible for PvP. They shouldn't introduce maps that are completely broken in any match up.
Daybreak seems like a good choice. I like Metropolis but I'm sure blizzard wouldn't like the creep tumors on the island expansions (same reason they don't like the neutral depots to block wall-ins).
Remember, the said they are working on Ohana for next season as well. Apparently they just have some performance issues they want to resolve.
Yes! this means a map pool of fully playable maps, and i can spend my vetos on maps that are old and boring =D Thanks Blizzard and the responsible map makers <3
played cloud kingdom in playhem a couple of times, seems like a protoss free win AND, more importantly, they removed the flying shark? but will have 2 free vetoes after arid/xnc removal, so np wonder how korhal will play out
On February 10 2012 19:25 Proseat wrote: I'm sure the ESV guys have a big grin on their faces.
Wonder when Blizz will add such prominent maps as Daybreak, Metropolis, and Bel'Shir Winter from the GSL map making team to the ladder map pool.
Please JUST NO. Not Bel'Shir in the ladder pool. We, protoss already have Tal'Darim, we don't want a second 4gate map.
Bel'shir beach and daybreak = most balanced map there is - by far :o
It doesn't keep bel'shir (and tal'darim for that matter) from being completely shit awful in pvp. Seriously each map should ALWAYS have a ramp leading into the main for pvp. It's like having a reasonable rush distance to keep early game tvz balanced or not having close by ground spawns, without it some matchups are just god awful and lead to bad games.
I think they won't put in Bel'shir Beach Winter since the ice textures are created independently of Blizzard or so(can't remember), it's also a bad map for PvP, and maybe there are too many versions of that map already. They won't put in Metropolis since I imagine they want to move away from 4 player maps with disabled spawn locations. I'm not sure why they wouldn't put in DayBreak to replace Tal'Darim, but I think they want to limit map changes per season.
This is an article linked on Battle.net. It's an article about the do's and don't of mapmaking. In the article they use Daybreak as the prime example of a great and balanced map. They also use Jungle Basin as the example of a really bad map. Since Blizzard itself linked this article, you would assume that they agree with this article that Daybreak is currently the best and most balanced map, right?
Wrong. They choose to omit the prime example map and pick two other (arguably still good) maps. Why??
So no, this action is not in line with Blizzard "listening to the community". It sure is better than their own crap, but still worse than actually knowing which map is the most popular and balanced. Let's hope they continue to learn and eventually REALLY do what the community wants.
- edit - The ONLY reason for not including Daybreak would be that it wasn't part of the TL mapmaking contest. That still is a pretty weak argument in itself... how would you react if the announcement actually read "oh and to make you guys even happier, we even included the best and most balanced map of the moment, Daybreak!"... nah that would make too many people happy I guess
We would also like to recognize IronmanSC and the members of ESV and The Planetary Workshop (TPW) for their amazing work on Ohana, which took second place in the TeamLiquid map contest. We’re currently working with IronmanSC to help fix a few bugs while ensuring we retain the intent of the map, and once those are done we’ll be adding it to the pool for a future ladder season.
Its funny, Blizzard removes the maps people hate and brings 2 very popular maps from the community into the ladder pool, and all people do is bitch that they didn't include Daybreak. What in the flying fuck? Are you people EVER happy with anything you get?
Daybreak isn't even that balanced, its considered somewhat zerg-favored. Its also ridiculously large.
On February 10 2012 20:11 Bagi wrote: Its funny, Blizzard removes the maps people hate and brings 2 very popular maps from the community into the ladder pool, and all people do is bitch that they didn't include Daybreak. What in the flying fuck? Are you people EVER happy with anything you get?
Daybreak isn't even that balanced, its considered somewhat zerg-favored. Its also ridiculously large.
Maybe it's because it took them a year to make the pool somewhat decent and almost another half year to start adding community maps (besides taldarim like an age ago)? Maybe because daybreak has been around since like july/august now and people have been wanting it in ladder for that long? Or maybe just because the ladder pool still features really, really old and outdated maps? Keep in mind this is the first season ever that we don't have to deal with some new terrible map made by blizzard when the community had maps 100x better than what blizzard had forever.
I think we can all agree that this update is a step in the right direction, but it would be totally wrong to jump on the sickest blizzard bandwaggon just because they did something good for the pool for once.
This is an article linked on Battle.net. It's an article about the do's and don't of mapmaking. In the article they use Daybreak as the prime example of a great and balanced map. They also use Jungle Basin as the example of a really bad map. Since Blizzard itself linked this article, you would assume that they agree with this article that Daybreak is currently the best and most balanced map, right?
Wrong. They choose to omit the prime example map and pick two other (arguably still good) maps. Why??
So no, this action is not in line with Blizzard "listening to the community". It sure is better than their own crap, but still worse than actually knowing which map is the most popular and balanced. Let's hope they continue to learn and eventually REALLY do what the community wants.
- edit - The ONLY reason for not including Daybreak would be that it wasn't part of the TL mapmaking contest. That still is a pretty weak argument in itself... how would you react if the announcement actually read "oh and to make you guys even happier, we even included the best and most balanced map of the moment, Daybreak!"... nah that would make too many people happy I guess
daybreak is boring and blizz maybe found out.
i'm happy that they finally open doors for some custom maps. but i wanted to see calm before the storm the most.
This is an article linked on Battle.net. It's an article about the do's and don't of mapmaking. In the article they use Daybreak as the prime example of a great and balanced map. They also use Jungle Basin as the example of a really bad map. Since Blizzard itself linked this article, you would assume that they agree with this article that Daybreak is currently the best and most balanced map, right?
Wrong. They choose to omit the prime example map and pick two other (arguably still good) maps. Why??
So no, this action is not in line with Blizzard "listening to the community". It sure is better than their own crap, but still worse than actually knowing which map is the most popular and balanced. Let's hope they continue to learn and eventually REALLY do what the community wants.
- edit - The ONLY reason for not including Daybreak would be that it wasn't part of the TL mapmaking contest. That still is a pretty weak argument in itself... how would you react if the announcement actually read "oh and to make you guys even happier, we even included the best and most balanced map of the moment, Daybreak!"... nah that would make too many people happy I guess
daybreak is boring and blizz maybe found out.
i'm happy that they finally open doors for some custom maps. but i wanted to see calm before the storm the most.
Calm before the storm is way more boring than Daybreak
On February 10 2012 20:11 Bagi wrote: Its funny, Blizzard removes the maps people hate and brings 2 very popular maps from the community into the ladder pool, and all people do is bitch that they didn't include Daybreak. What in the flying fuck? Are you people EVER happy with anything you get?
Daybreak isn't even that balanced, its considered somewhat zerg-favored. Its also ridiculously large.
Maybe it's because it took them a year to make the pool somewhat decent and almost another half year to start adding community maps (besides taldarim like an age ago)? Maybe because daybreak has been around since like july/august now and people have been wanting it in ladder for that long? Or maybe just because the ladder pool still features really, really old and outdated maps? Keep in mind this is the first season ever that we don't have to deal with some new terrible map made by blizzard when the community had maps 100x better than what blizzard had forever.
I think we can all agree that this update is a step in the right direction, but it would be totally wrong to jump on the sickest blizzard bandwaggon just because they did something good for the pool for once.
So you think people should bitch about this because of bitterness with the old map pool?
Weird arguments... they didn't include Daybreak, who cares the new maps are nice.
On February 10 2012 20:11 Bagi wrote: Its funny, Blizzard removes the maps people hate and brings 2 very popular maps from the community into the ladder pool, and all people do is bitch that they didn't include Daybreak. What in the flying fuck? Are you people EVER happy with anything you get?
Daybreak isn't even that balanced, its considered somewhat zerg-favored. Its also ridiculously large.
Maybe it's because it took them a year to make the pool somewhat decent and almost another half year to start adding community maps (besides taldarim like an age ago)? Maybe because daybreak has been around since like july/august now and people have been wanting it in ladder for that long? Or maybe just because the ladder pool still features really, really old and outdated maps? Keep in mind this is the first season ever that we don't have to deal with some new terrible map made by blizzard when the community had maps 100x better than what blizzard had forever.
I think we can all agree that this update is a step in the right direction, but it would be totally wrong to jump on the sickest blizzard bandwaggon just because they did something good for the pool for once.
So what you are saying is that people are so used to bitching after doing so for long, they can't stop?
On February 10 2012 20:11 Bagi wrote: Its funny, Blizzard removes the maps people hate and brings 2 very popular maps from the community into the ladder pool, and all people do is bitch that they didn't include Daybreak. What in the flying fuck? Are you people EVER happy with anything you get?
Daybreak isn't even that balanced, its considered somewhat zerg-favored. Its also ridiculously large.
Maybe it's because it took them a year to make the pool somewhat decent and almost another half year to start adding community maps (besides taldarim like an age ago)? Maybe because daybreak has been around since like july/august now and people have been wanting it in ladder for that long? Or maybe just because the ladder pool still features really, really old and outdated maps? Keep in mind this is the first season ever that we don't have to deal with some new terrible map made by blizzard when the community had maps 100x better than what blizzard had forever.
I think we can all agree that this update is a step in the right direction, but it would be totally wrong to jump on the sickest blizzard bandwaggon just because they did something good for the pool for once.
what do you mean "for once"? The map pool has been getting better every season. It's not like they reintroduced Scrap Station and Searing Crater.
You act like the map pool has been completely garbage up until this point, lol.
On February 10 2012 20:11 Bagi wrote: What in the flying fuck? Are you people EVER happy with anything you get?
People are content, but Blizzard seems to miss what people are actually asking for, which includes Daybreak. It's like giving a kid a Gameboy while it was asking for a 3DS. Doesn't it have a right to state that this was NOT what it was asking for?
Daybreak isn't even that balanced, its considered somewhat zerg-favored. Its also ridiculously large.
Back that statement up with numbers please. I'm sure you'll be able to find the topic where the numbers point it out to be actually the most balanced map of the moment. It's not larger than TDA.
This is an article linked on Battle.net. It's an article about the do's and don't of mapmaking. In the article they use Daybreak as the prime example of a great and balanced map. They also use Jungle Basin as the example of a really bad map. Since Blizzard itself linked this article, you would assume that they agree with this article that Daybreak is currently the best and most balanced map, right?
Wrong. They choose to omit the prime example map and pick two other (arguably still good) maps. Why??
So no, this action is not in line with Blizzard "listening to the community". It sure is better than their own crap, but still worse than actually knowing which map is the most popular and balanced. Let's hope they continue to learn and eventually REALLY do what the community wants.
- edit - The ONLY reason for not including Daybreak would be that it wasn't part of the TL mapmaking contest. That still is a pretty weak argument in itself... how would you react if the announcement actually read "oh and to make you guys even happier, we even included the best and most balanced map of the moment, Daybreak!"... nah that would make too many people happy I guess
daybreak is boring and blizz maybe found out.
i'm happy that they finally open doors for some custom maps. but i wanted to see calm before the storm the most.
Daybreak is boring, but you like Calm Before the Storm? ...different folks I guess
well, people will always find something to bich about...
I think this is a great move by blizzard and they are going in the right direction, a bit slow maybe, but they are trying to do the right thing at least
This is an article linked on Battle.net. It's an article about the do's and don't of mapmaking. In the article they use Daybreak as the prime example of a great and balanced map. They also use Jungle Basin as the example of a really bad map. Since Blizzard itself linked this article, you would assume that they agree with this article that Daybreak is currently the best and most balanced map, right?
Wrong. They choose to omit the prime example map and pick two other (arguably still good) maps. Why??
So no, this action is not in line with Blizzard "listening to the community". It sure is better than their own crap, but still worse than actually knowing which map is the most popular and balanced. Let's hope they continue to learn and eventually REALLY do what the community wants.
- edit - The ONLY reason for not including Daybreak would be that it wasn't part of the TL mapmaking contest. That still is a pretty weak argument in itself... how would you react if the announcement actually read "oh and to make you guys even happier, we even included the best and most balanced map of the moment, Daybreak!"... nah that would make too many people happy I guess
A non-blizzard editorial that EU mods decided to highlight does not mean that blizzard's ladder team feels the same way. Why can't people be excited that we're getting not just the possible 1 TLMMC map but 2 and a possible third? WTF? This is like the best map news since TA was added!
I am so, so, so, so, SO very glad to see that xel'naga and Arid plateau are out. They're my two most utterly hated maps. Arid was practically unplayable at a low lavel because defending your natural was a mammoth task against early pressure.
Very very good choices by Blizzard. I haven't played the TL maps a lot, but they look like fun 2 player maps, without retarded gold bases or being anti-macro. They seem to allow for a variety for styles. I'm glad they're getting rid of Arid Plateu and XNC, two vetos I don't need to use :-) Map pool getting better and better! Not sure if I should thumb down Entombed or not yet, but close positions on that map is kind of silly .
On February 10 2012 20:36 leecH wrote: blizzard making a reasonable descicion. wtf just happened.
Im kind of tired of seeing posts like this. Say what you will about blizzard, but they do make good decisions usually. They just take an insane amount of time to do so.
I don't understand how they can add tournament maps as replacements for the two maps that were probably most accessible for lower-league players. If they can do this now, what stopped them from doing it before? The map pool has been awful relative to the tournament maps for at least 3 seasons or so. Why didn't they replace Xel Naga before and why did they introduce Entombed/Arid last season when the community maps were available then as well?
I'm not happy with the lack of apparent power the e-sports community has. All of team liquid claims to enjoy the tournament maps more, yet for unknown reasons - some rationale having to do with casual players undoubtedly - Blizzard refuses to give in (now only slightly still) and even now they still have Shattered Temple, Shakuras Plateau and Metalopolis in the map pool.
Thumbing down metalopolis because it's just getting too old and TvTs are a real pain there if you split the map and ladder pool is looking great!!Good job Blizzard!
Removed XNC and Arid plateau, added Korhal and CK... wow blizzard, I love you <3
I hope the upcoming tweaked ohana replaces metalopolis.... well a 2 player map doesn't really replace a 4 player map, but something needs to replace metal.
I have a question: Why do you guys dislike Arid Plateau?
I feel that it's an "ok" map where you can easily take 4 bases and play a straight up fun macro game. I can't see how it's so bad as you guys make it out to be. :/ Throw me some knowledge bombs please.
Cant map makers make these maps symmetric?? u can wall of upper base on Korhal Compound LE with 2 buildings (connecting to nexus) but you need 2 buildings + pylon in lower one... Its a pretty huge deal when FFEing versus zerg, since wall with pylon will be almost impossible to hold vs well executed bane bust
Great changes! Cloud Kingdom could be substituted with a better map though, but as they removed 2 completely removable maps and added 2 good ones, I can't complain.
On February 10 2012 22:06 Zeon0 wrote: cause of the terrible natural
For which race? Terran and Zerg has it easy to expand and I can only think of Protoss that might struggle. But the natural is about the same as Shattered Temple's/Xel'Nagas where we see FFE all the time.
On February 10 2012 22:06 Zeon0 wrote: cause of the terrible natural
For which race? Terran and Zerg has it easy to expand and I can only think of Protoss that might struggle. But the natural is about the same as Shattered Temple's/Xel'Nagas where we see FFE all the time.
And XNC is terrible to FFE PvZ. Shattered is a bit different but with rocks blocking zerg's 3rd/4th bases it's a different situation.
On Arid there are many counter paths on a map with an open natural. This is hard for PvZ and PvT.
In PvP there are many spots for proxy gates, cannon rushes.
The middle is wide open but still divided into separate paths for counter attacking.
On February 10 2012 21:56 Haustka wrote: y isnt blizzard getting rid of all the gold bases?
1 step at a time.
This is actually huge, not only do we get community maps in the pool,l but if you read Blizzards reasoning for adding and removing maps it all basically boils down to whether a map is tournament friendly or not, which means we'll probably see more community made, tournament used maps in the pool soon and hopefully means that we can see gold bases removed and cross position only on antiga, if they decide to keep it, although it might take the next Blizzard run LAN event before we see those 2.
On February 10 2012 22:03 XiGua wrote: I have a question: Why do you guys dislike Arid Plateau?
I feel that it's an "ok" map where you can easily take 4 bases and play a straight up fun macro game. I can't see how it's so bad as you guys make it out to be. :/ Throw me some knowledge bombs please.
Personnally, I've had issues defending my natural in ZvP. The chokes around your natural make it really hard for you to defend a push with sentries. Yeah that's probably the only reason I veto it
R.I.P. XNC. I loved to hate you. It´s a brilliant map design, but oh so unforgiving. So, which map will all the players play custom on now? I´m kinda tired of Shatterd as well...
On February 10 2012 17:18 AnalThermometer wrote: It's nice they put in community maps, but Cloud Kingdom is an abysmal map worthy of Blizzard. The third is impossible to take, clearly designed for Zergs only.
If you can't take a third on that map you're bad. Plain and simple. Protoss? Single forcefield at left ramp, have army placed between Nat and Third. Terran, couple of tanks at natural ramp, have army placed between Nat and Third.
Stop blaming 'balance' for why you're bad.
May be the case for lower leagues, but no. TvP is already unbalanced at 45% on this map, once players figure out its weaknesses people will start vetoing it more for the other matchups as well.
Sorry bro but let me quote you again
The third is impossible to take, clearly designed for Zergs only
Then you go and whine to me about TvP? Go away.
edit: Why am I even debating with a dude called AnalThermometer. Can't believe I got trolled. I'm normally so good at avoiding them
I just thought I'd post these from the comments on the EU blog from a blizzard employee. (Kapeselus is the blue)
RebornUtopia 3 hours, 3 minutes ago nice maps no gold fair for all then :DD
Kapeselus 2 hours, 15 minutes ago @RebornUtopia: Keep a close eye on the blog section my friend, we might just have something for you *hint*
SoniStreet 3 hours, 43 minutes ago I'm so happy for this changes I can't wipe the bloody smile of my face. ♥ Big decision here by Blizzard, and it is one that the players(community) will love.
Thank you!
Kapeselus 3 hours, 16 minutes ago @SoniStreet: I've been walking like that since I've learned we would be doing this. It is not the end of what's to come too, stay tuned!
Seems to suggest that blizz is going to do something else to the maps soon. Maybe removal of golds? I apologize if these have already been posted.
On February 10 2012 22:37 Sausafeg wrote: I just thought I'd post these from the comments on the EU blog from a blizzard employee. (Kapeselus is the blue)
SoniStreet 3 hours, 43 minutes ago I'm so happy for this changes I can't wipe the bloody smile of my face. ♥ Big decision here by Blizzard, and it is one that the players(community) will love.
Kapeselus 3 hours, 16 minutes ago @SoniStreet: I've been walking like that since I've learned we would be doing this. It is not the end of what's to come too, stay tuned!
Seems to suggest that blizz is going to do something else to the maps soon. Maybe removal of golds? I apologize if these have already been posted.
I think I remember seeing Blizzard employee mention an upcoming patch, I think it was on the SEA forums?
Rebalancing gold bases could be one of the changes. I doubt they will remove them entirely, since Blizzard seems to be interested in adding more map features similar to gold bases rather than removing them in HOTS.
Pretty psyched to hear this, I've never played the maps, but, judging by the [generally sorta kinda] reliable TL community reaction, I guess I should hop on board and be happy.
I've always wanted Blizzard to come back to being an involved gaming company which listens to their community, and I am really hoping that this is one of the first steps.
Wow this is great +1 for blizzard and ESVwell done!
Just wish they gave arid platuea more time i liked that map it was growing on me.
But the removal of xelnaga makes me so happy!
Esv CloudKingdom isn't a good map imo as a zerg player it doesn't promote a fun game it promotes toss to 2 base but, if they get to late game there isnt enough room to engage. Forcing muta/ling practically. The third i've have heard and seems to be hard to hold as toss if you are active with aggression. This will probably become a veto along with entombed valley's to easy third.
Korhal compound looks great! i played it in a custom today and I cant find anything imbalanced on the map.
My new vetosatleast for now i like to give them a chance first though ) -Tal Darim -entombed valley -shattered temple
Edit: the rumors of ohana makes me so happy i loooooooooveeeeeeeeeee that map.
By reducing the space behind minerals they're just making cannon rushes stronger! -.- Also I kind of like how these maps look but I want to try to play them as a zerg.
On February 10 2012 23:37 getdeadplz wrote: Wow this is great +1 for blizzard and ESVwell done!
Just wish they gave arid platuea more time i liked that map it was growing on me.
But the removal of xelnaga makes me so happy!
Esv CloudKingdom isn't a good map imo as a zerg player it doesn't promote a fun game it promotes toss to 2 base but, if they get to late game there isnt enough room to engage. Forcing muta/ling practically. The third i've have heard and seems to be hard to hold as toss if you are active with aggression. This will probably become a veto along with entombed valley's to easy third.
Korhal compound looks great! i played it in a custom today and I cant find anything imbalanced on the map.
My new vetosatleast for now i like to give them a chance first though ) -Tal Darim -entombed valley -shattered temple
Edit: the rumors of ohana makes me so happy i loooooooooveeeeeeeeeee that map.
Not even rumors really as they said they are fixing some bugs on it and gona release it on some season.
So glad they're taking out XNC finally. Arid is obviously garbage as well.
Surprised they still haven't removed maps like shattered temple (60+% winrates in some matchups? A horribly uninspired and boring terrain? WHYYYYYY), but so glad to see 2 ESV maps added to the pool.
This will certainly make laddering quite a bit more pleasant!
Those maps looks even more zerg favored than the actuals... PvZ will be even more ridiculous than it's already is.
But it is still great maps if you take out the balance point of view. The Graphic style of those seems awesome and the relative long rush distance is very nice.
On February 10 2012 22:46 ReturnStroke wrote: Haha, they took out my vetoed maps <3
Mine too :D What race were you (or anyone else who had XNC and AP downvoted)? I'm Protoss.
I have them vetoed as well. Even though I'm (mostly) a Terran player and should be favored on these maps, I just hate playing on them. XNC was nice 18 months ago - not so much anymore. Arid Plateau was just never a good map :/
Love that theyre removing my vetoed maps and adding some really interesting ones. Still, why don't they add more maps and more vetoes, analyze statistics on each map for race vs race, avg game length, etc. and cut according to that? If we could see these tournament maps played over a ladder season or two I think we would be able to determine their balance much more accurately. The recent playhem analysis seemed very useful, and the ladder is a much bigger testing grounds.
On February 10 2012 22:46 ReturnStroke wrote: Haha, they took out my vetoed maps <3
Mine too :D What race were you (or anyone else who had XNC and AP downvoted)? I'm Protoss.
Same vetos, same race. I looked at AP, had no idea how to hold the natural, no idea how to not get raped in the middle, used a veto. As for xel naga, last time I played I either got proxy gated/cannon rushed, roach/ling allind or 1/1/1 every game...
Omfg this is seriously so awesome ! I don't care what you guys think but those maps are wayyyyy better than XNC and Arid. For once blizzard are moving in the right direction ! Hope there won't be any new rocks that could screw it up ! Or at least put them on 4th bases and i won't complain as much as before !
Yay!!! This is great for ESV and great for us. Blizzard seems to be moving in the right direction and maybe one day we will have a pool of maps that I don't have any vetoes on!!
This is amazing news. I've been playing on Cloud Kingdom with my friend and its a sick map. Haven't tried out Korhal yet, but from the looks of it, it's pretty legit. Blizzard should just keep doing this: Map Contest, Pick the Best Maps, Insert them into Ladder.
-Natural choke widened from a 3 gateway wall-off to a 4 gateway wall-off
Why? All this does is make forge fast expanding significantly harder, lowering protoss midgame economy, and id guess mess up other expands a tiny bit.
Blizzard did the same thing to Tal'darim Altar . Shakuras seems to be the only map that lets you block with 3 buildings...
Taldarim Altar could be blocked with forge gateway pylon (see HuK vs Moon dreamhack finals where 6/7 pool was held this way with zero losses) and it was widened to i think require forge gateway cyber pylon zealot or something...
On February 10 2012 15:52 onetime wrote: does the 3v3 map pool get an update?
Well there were three 2v2 maps nominated in the TL map contest, and apparently Blizzard decided not to include any of them in their ladder rotation. So don't get your hopes up for 3v3...
I like this change! I was kinda confused at Xel'Naga caverns being removed because I haven't played it at all this season; I didn't know it was still in the rotation! I'm guessing a lot of people veto it.
On February 11 2012 03:40 sevia wrote: Sorry if it's been posted in the thread already, but there's a somewhat serious balance problem with the two naturals.
On the top position, two 3x3 buildings can reach the ramp and form a full wall-off. However, on the bottom, there is a one-space gap. Here's an image:
There is actually no problem. You just misplaced your gateway in the second picture, since it's different than the one in the first. It's misplaced by 1 hex.
The other part too is that the minerals are not properly symmetrical. They are off by 1 hex. I will notify the team about this. Thanks for addressing it!
On February 11 2012 03:40 sevia wrote: Sorry if it's been posted in the thread already, but there's a somewhat serious balance problem with the two naturals.
On the top position, two 3x3 buildings can reach the ramp and form a full wall-off. However, on the bottom, there is a one-space gap. Here's an image:
There is actually no problem. You just misplaced your gateway in the second picture, since it's different than the one in the first. It's misplaced by 1 hex.
No, I think it is a problem. We'll have to look at it.
On February 11 2012 03:40 sevia wrote: Sorry if it's been posted in the thread already, but there's a somewhat serious balance problem with the two naturals.
On the top position, two 3x3 buildings can reach the ramp and form a full wall-off. However, on the bottom, there is a one-space gap. Here's an image:
There is actually no problem. You just misplaced your gateway in the second picture, since it's different than the one in the first. It's misplaced by 1 hex.
The other part too is that the minerals are not properly symmetrical. They are off by 1 hex. I will notify the team about this. Thanks for addressing it!
I was doing the wall-off relative to the ramp, which is why the nexus is off center. So yes, the problem is that the minerals are one space left and one space below what they should be, in the bottom position.
On February 11 2012 03:45 Jedclark wrote: Oh god, this is so awesome. Removed two maps I didn't like playing on, and added two new community maps, one of which I know is good (Cloud Kingdom).
Agreed I think Blizzard is on the right track now for sure.
XNC is, like, so 2010. And I didn't think Arid was as bad as it seemed at first but I can't be sad that it's gone either. Seems like we got a hell of a ladder pool going on.
On February 11 2012 03:58 The KY wrote: XNC is, like, so 2010. And I didn't think Arid was as bad as it seemed at first but I can't be sad that it's gone either. Seems like we got a hell of a ladder pool going on.
^^
Good changes. Sad for Daybreak though. Such a good map. And I want metalo gone too.
On February 11 2012 02:10 CryMore wrote: This is amazing news. I've been playing on Cloud Kingdom with my friend and its a sick map. Haven't tried out Korhal yet, but from the looks of it, it's pretty legit. Blizzard should just keep doing this: Map Contest, Pick the Best Maps, Insert them into Ladder.
Exactly. There's no reason this shouldn't have been done earlier, but I guess DB's explanation urged mapmakers to organize a bit better once they knew their goal was tangible.
I expect shakuras and shattered to be the next to go.
I was the only TL Map Contest judge who really pushed for Korhal Compound, so I'm really curious/worried what everyone thinks of it. Had I not argued for why it deserved a winning spot, it probably wouldn't be being added to the ladder pool, so I guess this means you can just blame me if you dislike it, and that's also why it may be more zerg favored.
zzzzz I almost want to wait 4 days to play ladder. I don't know if these maps are even bad for terran but they look interesting. Cloud kingdom has been fun in the Playhems.
Awesome how blizzard is respecting the usefulness of macro game maps on ladder. Really sad to see Xel'Naga Caverns go, would've much rather liked Shattered or Metalopolis out of the map pool, but i guess that's what the majority wants.
xel naga had to go it just didn't fit anymore with how the game is played now and led to terrible games lately. Plateau was terrible so good riddens of that too.
New maps are good so only for the better. Next maps to leave will be shattered and shakuras I think with metalopolis staying as the only small viable map.
On February 11 2012 04:29 Zelniq wrote: I was the only TL Map Contest judge who really pushed for Korhal Compound, so I'm really curious/worried what everyone thinks of it. Had I not argued for why it deserved a winning spot, it probably wouldn't be being added to the ladder pool, so I guess this means you can just blame me if you dislike it, and that's also why it may be more zerg favored.
Could you explain some of the criticisms other judges had and what your rebuttal was?
On February 11 2012 04:29 Zelniq wrote: I was the only TL Map Contest judge who really pushed for Korhal Compound, so I'm really curious/worried what everyone thinks of it. Had I not argued for why it deserved a winning spot, it probably wouldn't be being added to the ladder pool, so I guess this means you can just blame me if you dislike it, and that's also why it may be more zerg favored.
i just tested it against comp and i really like it a lot. (more than cloud kingdom) the layout and look is awesome, really glad it's in the pool.
I am satisfied with the map pool changes. I just wish the minimap for the Cloud Kingdom would not be so dark. It makes recognizing the terrain height differences from the minimap hard.
I'm so happy to see this. Glad that Blizz is listening to the community and putting in more user maps into their ladder map pool. I definitely think that this is a huge leap in the right direction. Actually got me kind of excited to play again.
On February 11 2012 04:29 Zelniq wrote: I was the only TL Map Contest judge who really pushed for Korhal Compound, so I'm really curious/worried what everyone thinks of it. Had I not argued for why it deserved a winning spot, it probably wouldn't be being added to the ladder pool, so I guess this means you can just blame me if you dislike it, and that's also why it may be more zerg favored.
I voted for Korhal! I really like both the look of the map, and the layout. The ladder needs more 2 player maps anyway.
On February 11 2012 10:17 Nazeron wrote: finally XNC is out, thank fuck. good changes by blizz IMO
I liked the way midgame TvT played out, especially since there is enough open areas, chokes, counter attack/drop paths for both mech and bio but absolutely hated that natural expansion. Which makes me happy about Cloud Kingdom because it's essentially a larger version of XNC (for TvT) with easier expansions and more interesting terrain (especially the high ground and faaaaaaaaaar paths).
On February 11 2012 04:29 Zelniq wrote: I was the only TL Map Contest judge who really pushed for Korhal Compound, so I'm really curious/worried what everyone thinks of it. Had I not argued for why it deserved a winning spot, it probably wouldn't be being added to the ladder pool, so I guess this means you can just blame me if you dislike it, and that's also why it may be more zerg favored.
We all really like it, don't worry. I've played some games on it with Monitor and it played out really well imo. Of course, I'm a Zerg player too so.....
On February 11 2012 03:40 sevia wrote: Sorry if it's been posted in the thread already, but there's a somewhat serious balance problem with the two naturals.
On the top position, two 3x3 buildings can reach the ramp and form a full wall-off. However, on the bottom, there is a one-space gap. Here's an image:
There is actually no problem. You just misplaced your gateway in the second picture, since it's different than the one in the first. It's misplaced by 1 hex.
The other part too is that the minerals are not properly symmetrical. They are off by 1 hex. I will notify the team about this. Thanks for addressing it!
In my original this issue was nonexistent- Blizzard did it in the LE version. You can check ESV Korhal Compound to see that it was completely symmetrical. Sorry but there isn't much I can do!
On February 11 2012 04:29 Zelniq wrote: I was the only TL Map Contest judge who really pushed for Korhal Compound, so I'm really curious/worried what everyone thinks of it. Had I not argued for why it deserved a winning spot, it probably wouldn't be being added to the ladder pool, so I guess this means you can just blame me if you dislike it, and that's also why it may be more zerg favored.
I'm loving Korhal right now. I play Toss and I thought the natural and 3rd might be too open but that hasn't been the case in the 2 games I've played on it. The map has a contradictory feel: it feels both small and big at the same time. I like that. The rush distance is longer than I anticipated, but your first three bases are close enough that they are all defendable and the positioning of the Xel Naga is really unique in that its high ground location provides you with a defenders' advantage: I can hold it against Zerg and have an edge in seeing them coming without the normal worries I have when trying to do so vs Z.
On February 11 2012 14:09 sofakng wrote: cloud kingdom is a veto for pvz as far as im concerned and I'll have to try out korthal but appears to be a veto as well.
Really? The third is relatively easy to take on that map. I am loving maps that allows me to take a 10 minute 3rd.
I think Blizzard fixed the Korhal Compound wall off issues. I went into the editor to investigate how I would wall off the bottom position when I FFE, turns out it was no different than the top. + Show Spoiler +
As you can clearly see, they're identical. So fellow toss players, there's no reason to panic if you spawn bottom.
ESV map making team is becoming legendary, just curious but does anyone know if they are getting compensated or not? I think it would be a wise decision if blizzard brought them on as employees, or as contract workers, they have obviously proven they know their shit, and this could allow for more community map tournaments, run by the, (blizzard) and that way we always have good maps in the pool. I would rather play on the maps pro's play on, than shitty maps, and I'm sure everyone agrees with me.
On February 11 2012 14:47 Balgrog wrote: ESV map making team is becoming legendary, just curious but does anyone know if they are getting compensated or not? I think it would be a wise decision if blizzard brought them on as employees, or as contract workers, they have obviously proven they know their shit, and this could allow for more community map tournaments, run by the, (blizzard) and that way we always have good maps in the pool. I would rather play on the maps pro's play on, than shitty maps, and I'm sure everyone agrees with me.
I wish :p As of right now, no money is involved. Just super awesome popularity. Superouman got an interview for creating Cloud Kingdom, and Monitor is bound to get one for making Korhal Compound. Though, I guess popularity could be considered compensation to an extent...
Give the mapping community a year or two and soon enough you'll start seeing prize money for map contests instead of free stuff like headsets or SSD's. Before you know it, teams might even be hired and paid to make a map pool for a tournament such as MLG, though that may be a bit over my head as of now...
EDIT: If you want to see more of our legendary maps in action, check out the ESV Korean Weekly. We tend to use ESV maps there as you could imagine. To see all of our current maps and map makers, check out our thread + Show Spoiler +
On February 11 2012 14:25 Timetwister22 wrote: I think Blizzard fixed the Korhal Compound wall off issues. I went into the editor to investigate how I would wall off the bottom position when I FFE, turns out it was no different than the top. + Show Spoiler +
As you can clearly see, they're identical. So fellow toss players, there's no reason to panic if you spawn bottom.
Glad to know it's cleared up. Looks like there isn't any positional discrepancies and it can be walled with a forge + gateway.
On February 11 2012 14:47 Balgrog wrote: ESV map making team is becoming legendary, just curious but does anyone know if they are getting compensated or not? I think it would be a wise decision if blizzard brought them on as employees, or as contract workers, they have obviously proven they know their shit, and this could allow for more community map tournaments, run by the, (blizzard) and that way we always have good maps in the pool. I would rather play on the maps pro's play on, than shitty maps, and I'm sure everyone agrees with me.
I wish :p As of right now, no money is involved. Just super awesome popularity. Superouman got an interview for creating Cloud Kingdom, and Monitor is bound to get one for making Korhal Compound. Though, I guess popularity could be considered compensation to an extent...
Give the mapping community a year or two and soon enough you'll start seeing prize money for map contests instead of free stuff like headsets or SSD's. Before you know it, teams might even be hired and paid to make a map pool for a tournament such as MLG, though that may be a bit over my head as of now...
EDIT: If you want to see more of our legendary maps in action, check out the ESV Korean Weekly. We tend to use ESV maps there as you could imagine. To see all of our current maps and map makers, check out our thread + Show Spoiler +
Thanks for the compliments, and hope you enjoy Cloud Kingdom and Korhal Compound
I played a ZvP on Korhal Compound earlier today and, although I lost, it was one of the most fun games I've had in a while. I play mostly ladder, so I don't get a lot of map variety and as a result, the map flow of Korhal was a beautiful breath of fresh air. Flanking, multipronged attacks, army positioning... all feel like they really mean something more significantly than on most of the ladder maps.
although i am going to miss XC, i love the idea of adding community maps. Adding the new maps in the ladder map pool will allow people to practice for tournaments easier
On February 11 2012 14:09 sofakng wrote: cloud kingdom is a veto for pvz as far as im concerned and I'll have to try out korthal but appears to be a veto as well.
Really? The third is relatively easy to take on that map. I am loving maps that allows me to take a 10 minute 3rd.
which one korthal or cloud kingdom? I think its generally accepted that pvz cloud kingdom is zerg favoured because of hard to defend third and multiple attack routes, as well as long distance for 2 base all in.
On February 11 2012 14:09 sofakng wrote: cloud kingdom is a veto for pvz as far as im concerned and I'll have to try out korthal but appears to be a veto as well.
Really? The third is relatively easy to take on that map. I am loving maps that allows me to take a 10 minute 3rd.
which one korthal or cloud kingdom? I think its generally accepted that pvz cloud kingdom is zerg favoured because of hard to defend third and multiple attack routes, as well as long distance for 2 base all in.
Yeah man, I know how you feel. I veto'd Tal'Darim Altar LE too since it's too big for 6 pool rushes...
On February 11 2012 14:25 Timetwister22 wrote: I think Blizzard fixed the Korhal Compound wall off issues. I went into the editor to investigate how I would wall off the bottom position when I FFE, turns out it was no different than the top. + Show Spoiler +
As you can clearly see, they're identical. So fellow toss players, there's no reason to panic if you spawn bottom.
they can fix antiga next. been like this since day1 :D
On February 11 2012 04:29 Zelniq wrote: I was the only TL Map Contest judge who really pushed for Korhal Compound, so I'm really curious/worried what everyone thinks of it. Had I not argued for why it deserved a winning spot, it probably wouldn't be being added to the ladder pool, so I guess this means you can just blame me if you dislike it, and that's also why it may be more zerg favored.
Haha. I played in the TL Open map contest and practiced heavily on Korhal Compound. It is an awful map for Protoss, especially vs Zerg. It is a really big map for just two spawning locations, with wide open spaces that are difficult to control with FF. FFE is difficult. Very difficult to defend third also vs Z and T. In general, I think it is a terribly designed map that is Zerg favored.
I also don't think highly of Cloud Kingdom which I've played in tourneys too. People are so quick to criticize Blizzard maps, but a lot of the community maps aren't very good either. I am curious to see the statistics regarding racial balance for these maps after they hit the ladder, I don't think it will be pretty, and hopefully people will wake up to what a disaster some of these maps are. I do like Ohana though, it is a very well designed map.
I played a bit on Cloud Kingdom LE and gas aren't symmetric between both players at the natural expansions. One gas is 1 square further and one gas is 1 square closer. If you want to wall between your gas and your Nexus it can be annoying.
Also since the neutral depot was removed, now a double bunker contain can be really strong. Both bunkers will block the ramp and be in range of the hatchery.
On February 11 2012 04:29 Zelniq wrote: I was the only TL Map Contest judge who really pushed for Korhal Compound, so I'm really curious/worried what everyone thinks of it. Had I not argued for why it deserved a winning spot, it probably wouldn't be being added to the ladder pool, so I guess this means you can just blame me if you dislike it, and that's also why it may be more zerg favored.
Haha. I played in the TL Open map contest and practiced heavily on Korhal Compound. It is an awful map for Protoss, especially vs Zerg. It is a really big map for just two spawning locations, with wide open spaces that are difficult to control with FF. FFE is also difficult. Very difficult to defend third also vs Z and T. In general, I think it is a terribly designed map that is Zerg favored.
I also don't think highly of Cloud Kingdom which I've played in tourneys too. People are so quick to criticize Blizzard maps, but a lot of the community maps aren't very good either. I am curious to see the statistics regarding racial balance for these maps after they hit the ladder, I don't think they will be good. I do like Ohana though, that is a very good map.
I second pretty much every point BronzeKnee made here. Ohana is a nice map but the rest aren't really that great.
fuck my life, why remove xelnaga... I'd seriously love to have one map that would stay with the game forever, for like 6-7 years without being replaced. hoped it would be xelnaga i just hope they release wc4 sooner so i can forget about this fucking disappointing sc2 game where everyone wants their fucking macro games on huge maps... srsly ((
On February 12 2012 07:13 Nancial wrote: fuck my life, why remove xelnaga... I'd seriously love to have one map that would stay with the game forever, for like 6-7 years without being replaced. hoped it would be xelnaga i just hope they release wc4 sooner so i can forget about this fucking disappointing sc2 game where everyone wants their fucking macro games on huge maps... srsly ((
Just wait until they remove Metalopolis man ^^
XNC wasn't even in beta, compared to metal it's rather young map.
On February 12 2012 07:13 Nancial wrote: fuck my life, why remove xelnaga... I'd seriously love to have one map that would stay with the game forever, for like 6-7 years without being replaced. hoped it would be xelnaga i just hope they release wc4 sooner so i can forget about this fucking disappointing sc2 game where everyone wants their fucking macro games on huge maps... srsly ((
I wouldn't mind that if there was a map worth keeping that long from the beginning.
Why remove Xelnaga? Because at higher skill levels, zerg has under 40% winrate because it's nearly impossible to take a third, and terran winrate is extremely high since they can put a planetary on the gold and not only secure a huge income but also control the center of the map.
Dunno why SC2 is disappointing you so much... these "fucking macro games on huge maps" like Taldarim still average 12-13 minutes in length, virtually identical to smaller maps. Sounds like you just want something to complain about.
Well, now that we've gotten them starting to use good maps our next goal has to be to get them to put a depot at the bottom of ramps and make certain maps cross positions only.
I'm really liking Cloud after playing it quite a bit the last few days. I'm not sold on Korhal at all tho, haven't had any enjoyable games on it so far.
surprised to see arid go, I thought that it was added as a tournament ready map? Also I personally liked it, but Husky said that it just wasnt that popular in Korea... comments?
On February 13 2012 06:10 Aveng3r wrote: surprised to see arid go, I thought that it was added as a tournament ready map? Also I personally liked it, but Husky said that it just wasnt that popular in Korea... comments?
Arid is kinda like XNC. Its one of the worst maps for Protoss ever.
The natural is a pain to defend, especially against zerg.
The rush distance is not that long, and the watch towers suck.
Its also hard to defend against mutas and drops because of how spread the bases are.
Arid is just a ugly and badly designed map. It makes holding FFE as protoss neigh impossible. I like the replacement we shall see how it stands up balance wise.
Looks very nice. By any chance, did you model Ohana off of Destination? The more iterations it goes through, the more it reminds me of that map (which is a good thing).
Looks very nice. By any chance, did you model Ohana off of Destination? The more iterations it goes through, the more it reminds me of that map (which is a good thing).
On February 13 2012 14:21 remedium wrote: I'm running out of veto slots for these 2 location maps. I really dislike people knowing where my little pyramid is.
Too bad, some of the best maps ever have been 2 player maps! =)
Cloud Kingdom just feels weird to me. Its not an open map at all, protoss is guaranteed a 3 or 4 forcefield wall pretty much anywhere on the map. There's always a way around but it feels REALLY tough to get a flank vs sentry armies. Mech armies also fill the areas pretty well, making it hard to attack them too. All in all, its a pretty map but having multi-pathed chokes everywhere doesn't really sit well with me. the map might well make my veto... and thats sad because its overall pretty nice, but i just don't like maps that make sentry pushes stronger. I used to veto Typhon Peaks too.
On February 13 2012 16:46 SC2NeCro wrote: How do Terran feel about Tal'darim and Shattered Temple?
Both are excellent maps in all T matchups, especially TvZ. Lots of aggressive timings possible on Tal'darim (except if cross positions) in TvP and TvZ, and gold base on Shattered makes fast planetary at the 3rd after a 2 base timing extremely strong TvZ and TvP.
With season 6 tomorrow and it not looking like the patch will start with it, will the server be down for maintenance or can I plan to play in the morning?
On February 14 2012 19:22 d3y wrote: Played the new Maps yesterday. I realy like them Can't wait for Season 6. Hope it gonna start this evening in EU
It should start at approxymately 11am CET (GMT +1) tomorrow.
I thought it should start today everywhere?!? Damn that sucks :'(
New seasons typically start when Blizzard does their Battle.net / WoW maintenance. For the NA area that's early morning on tuesday (local time), for EU it's early morning on wednesday (local time).
On February 14 2012 19:22 d3y wrote: Played the new Maps yesterday. I realy like them Can't wait for Season 6. Hope it gonna start this evening in EU
It should start at approxymately 11am CET (GMT +1) tomorrow.
I thought it should start today everywhere?!? Damn that sucks :'(
New seasons typically start when Blizzard does their Battle.net / WoW maintenance. For the NA area that's early morning on tuesday (local time), for EU it's early morning on wednesday (local time).
Allrights thanks Never followed a Season reset this much before.
So i can logout on SC now and start some learnig :D
i have to say this is the first ladder map pool that i dont feel the need to veto 3 maps only metal stands out as a map that i dont care to play on and after the mule fix i might unveto that also, good to see blizzard follow through on a promise of fixing the map pool that they made at blizz con.
I heard various people say Xel'naga wasn't a good map for Zerg (and I guess at one point really early on I had a bad win-rate on it for ZvP too, but didn't check recently), but I personally liked the map a lot regardless. I'd rather have a map like Shattered temple thrown out, not only for it's 4 spawning positions, but it has rather imbalanced spawn location configurations.
It (XNC) sorta reminded me of Destination from Brood War. I like maps with only 2-3 spawn points because otherwise the games get more random and less skill-based.
At least the two replacement maps are 2-position, that's actually really good (for my personal reference at least). I'm sure I could like one or both of the maps just as much as Xelnaga Caverns (and maybe get a better win-rate regardless), even though I'm sick of closed-natural maps. It's forcing too much of a 1-way play style with these maps that have closed naturals — I guess it did have issues though — FFE is very difficult (or impossible?) to hold vs strong offensive builds, and zergs have considerable trouble defending open naturals too. In fact with Arid gone, there are no more maps with open naturals? Is there some kind of agreement that protoss needs to FFE to win or something? If anything, I find most of the protosses who FFE seem to complain more that they have no viable options.
On February 12 2012 07:13 Nancial wrote: fuck my life, why remove xelnaga... I'd seriously love to have one map that would stay with the game forever, for like 6-7 years without being replaced. hoped it would be xelnaga i just hope they release wc4 sooner so i can forget about this fucking disappointing sc2 game where everyone wants their fucking macro games on huge maps... srsly ((
Yeah I agree. XNC can definitely run some serious macro games too though — it's not like any race is forced to 2 base or 3 base or all-in (at least, or especially considering the MULE change). I like it because the action can start early on, there's no free lunches where both sides just sit around and macro on 2 base not attacking each other until at least the 10 minute mark — it's boring and goes against much of what made Brood War great (although after 8 years of BW the games became very macro oriented and passive early on as well)
On February 12 2012 08:18 Zaphid wrote: Just wait until they remove Metalopolis man ^^ XNC wasn't even in beta, compared to metal it's rather young map.
I'd rather see metalopolis drop, just because blizzard never chose to fix the damn close positions. Same thing with Shattered temple. They're both old map with 4 spawns and lame close positions.
On February 15 2012 18:35 Xapti wrote: I heard various people say Xel'naga wasn't a good map for Zerg (and I guess at one point really early on I had a bad win-rate on it for ZvP too, but didn't check recently), but I personally liked the map a lot regardless. I'd rather have a map like Shattered temple thrown out, not only for it's 4 spawning positions, but it has rather imbalanced spawn location configurations.
It (XNC) sorta reminded me of Destination from Brood War. I like maps with only 2-3 spawn points because otherwise the games get more random and less skill-based.
At least the two replacement maps are 2-position, that's actually really good (for my personal reference at least). I'm sure I could like one or both of the maps just as much as Xelnaga Caverns (and maybe get a better win-rate regardless), even though I'm sick of closed-natural maps. It's forcing too much of a 1-way play style with these maps that have closed naturals — I guess it did have issues though — FFE is very difficult (or impossible?) to hold vs strong offensive builds, and zergs have considerable trouble defending open naturals too. In fact with Arid gone, there are no more maps with open naturals? Is there some kind of agreement that protoss needs to FFE to win or something? If anything, I find most of the protosses who FFE seem to complain more that they have no viable options.
On February 12 2012 07:13 Nancial wrote: fuck my life, why remove xelnaga... I'd seriously love to have one map that would stay with the game forever, for like 6-7 years without being replaced. hoped it would be xelnaga i just hope they release wc4 sooner so i can forget about this fucking disappointing sc2 game where everyone wants their fucking macro games on huge maps... srsly ((
Yeah I agree. XNC can definitely run some serious macro games too though — it's not like any race is forced to 2 base or 3 base or all-in.
On February 12 2012 08:18 Zaphid wrote: Just wait until they remove Metalopolis man ^^ XNC wasn't even in beta, compared to metal it's rather young map.
I'd rather see metalopolis drop, just because blizzard never chose to fix the damn close positions. Same thing with Shattered temple. They're both old map with 4 spawns and lame close positions.
They removed close position spawns on both Metal and Shattered (in Season 5, or maybe even 4?).
Oh right, LOL. Forgot about that. Didn't sink in to well because I didn't ladder in season 4, and not lots season 5 either.
On February 10 2012 17:09 masterbreti wrote: guess I know what maps to veto now. Cloud kingdom is a horrible map. Have no clue why they didn't put a good GSL map in there instead of Cloud Kingdom. I enjoyed Xel Naga though, even though its old, still was a solid map.
i really like the new maps. both cloud kingdom and corhal compound encourage longer games but also give a lot of attack paths. so you get long games with a lot of aggression. sounds perfect to me. a lot better then turtle maps like antiga shipyard for example. games are much more fun to play and to watch, if they consist of a lot of aggression and not 16 minute turtle with one big deciding fight at 18 minutes that ends the game